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Download effects

Posted: Sat, 15th Jun 2002, 6:09pm

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J_B

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8) When I try to download a effect I just come to a new site and there canĀ“t I Download.
Posted: Sat, 15th Jun 2002, 6:14pm

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malone

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Rating: +1

You are now required to be a "Gold User" before you can download plugins. You can upgrade to gold status using the link from your profile.
Posted: Sat, 15th Jun 2002, 8:59pm

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Gibs

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Malone, this is one of the few times when I think a change would be a good idea. For example, let's say you download the trial of Alam, and you wan't to see how a certain plugin works that isn't included in the trial download. This makes it so that the trial isn't as useful. Could you tell me the reason behind this, because right now I have no idea why you did it.
Posted: Sat, 15th Jun 2002, 9:03pm

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TMM

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one word - SECURITY...

this way they can stop people submitting dodgy/illegal/multiple serials to the site, and that way alamdv will become kinda useless to the person who has the dodgy serial, simple as that i think...
Posted: Sat, 15th Jun 2002, 9:06pm

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Gibs

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In that case, it now makes sense. smile
Posted: Sat, 15th Jun 2002, 10:36pm

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av11d

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Yea, but if you are using the demo, you still want to try out all the effects.
Posted: Sat, 15th Jun 2002, 10:44pm

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TMM

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well this way is more secure, maybe on the d/l there should be like 1 of each of the common plug-ins, like lightswords, muzzle flashes, and explosion, etc etc, that way people shouldn't need to d/l anything until they buy it...
Posted: Sat, 15th Jun 2002, 10:47pm

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av11d

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Can't you just make it so that the site doesn't accept dodgy serials?
Posted: Sat, 15th Jun 2002, 11:06pm

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TMM

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that is basically what it's doing...

it doesn't accept dodgy serials, but b4 u didn't need to submit ur serial, now u do, so the fact is, people try and submit their dodgy serials, and it goes "oi, u , noooooooooo" etc...
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 1:36am

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MechaForce

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AND ALSO!! All of the effects can be used with After Effects, and not AlamDV, so people will just download them w/o using AlamDV.
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 2:11am

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jarar1

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You can use the plug-ins in AE? Wha-huh?
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 3:15am

Post 12 of 44

av11d

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ok, that makes sense.

Maybe you should allow people to download one free effect or somethin, so they can get a feel for installing plug-ins, and see how a certain type of plug-in (that wasn't included in the standard download) looks?
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 11:09am

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malone

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I didnt want to make the plugin section like this, I know its a PITA. Me and Schwar decided it was the only way to protect people sharing serials. Its difficult to check if two people are using the same serial in AlamDV, but very easy to check if two people are using the same serial on the site.

I dont like restricting downloads to gold members because like you say people want to try out the plugins before they buy. Theres also a few other potential problems I can invision. Unfortunatly this is the best solution we have at the moment.

I think allowing people to download just one plugin would result in people just creating as many accounts as they need to download all the plugins they want.

We'd also be interested to hear how AlamDV plugins work with AE. Could you email us this information privatly at team@csb-digital.com thanks
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 5:47pm

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jack1984

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Rating: -1

Seems to me, the people at AlamDV are getting a bit paranoid. Or stingy. Aren't the plug-ins created by the users for the most part? So, if you look at it from the outside, you have this site, that sells a product, which can't really be tested, unless you buy it, and the bulk of it's product is supplied by it's users, but can't be downloaded after they submitted it to your company for use, unless they buy the product, even though they submitted the plugins, from which your company profits?

Can anyone say Microsoft.

Also, a lot of your plug-ins look suspicously like the ones from Illusion....
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 7:02pm

Post 15 of 44

TMM

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no, people at csb-digital are keeping secure against dodgy serials, or serials that are used multiple times...

also in another post on this matter, people have said they d/l the plug-ins and use them in AE, which is no good for the alamdv crew...

this is y i had to give u "-1 redundant"
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 7:10pm

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oliciv

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malone wrote:

I think allowing people to download just one plugin would result in people just creating as many accounts as they need to download all the plugins they want.
What about giving them one sample plugin to download - like not one of their choice, but all non gold users get the same free plugin
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 7:18pm

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Joshua Davies

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The Demo Installer (Standard Version) comes with a selection of plug-in so they should have no problem testing the program and seeing if it does what they need.
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 9:18pm

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jack1984

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Ok. So don't take this as a flame...

The point is...Who cares if they use it with AE...

The plugins are not created by the team here AlamDV. They are or were created by the people who have bought and used the program. What do you care if they can be used somewhere else. It's tantamount to Microsoft saying "Well, we have this proprietory format called *.txt or *.doc, that can only be opended with our program. So if you create anything with a *.txt or *.doc extension, we'll make it so you can't use anyone elses program but ours to view it with"...

This is the whole basis for the antitrust suit in the US against Microsoft.

Up till now, I've always admired AlamDV. Now you're looking kinda sleazy, saying "well, we have people creating free plugins for us, and we're going to make it so they can't share it with anyone else"...

You're giving people the wrong impression. Why should anyone submit a plugin to your community, if you're the only ones to profit from it, and you want to squeeze out anyone else from using it somewhere else....How does that even affect how you make a profit...

It's your company, but I'd rethink your polices real quick if you want people to come back.
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 9:36pm

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Joshua Davies

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Thats the strangest thing I've ever heard..

We are providing a service by hosting plugins on a constant basis that costs our company money - a service that is paid for by the people that buy our program. In fact, it costs a great deal bacause of the bandwidth we use. We have made about 1/2 of the current effects on the site but that isn't the point. The plugins on the site were made by by paying users FOR AlamDV2 and the community of AlamDV2 users. Part of the Licence Agreement means these effects can not be sold, by the makers or by us. We provide a service for our users in hosting all the new plugins for them to download at no cost at all after they have paid for the program meaning they get many new effects every week - FOR FREE - I can't think of any other company that offers this.

We can't afford to host the GB of data that get downloaded by people who are not AlamDV users (like we can't host all the movies in the cinema) - we never stated that we provided a free source of media for other programs or free web hosting. This is why the new demo comes with plugins for you to test the program, and if you like it you can purchase it and download many more plugins.

"Also, a lot of your plug-ins look suspicously like the ones from Illusion" - Thats because about 4-5 have been created in Illusion..
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 9:44pm

Post 20 of 44

TMM

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well some of the stuff i was gonna say is mentioned in that...

about people who pay get the service, rather than the site hosting for unnessacary d/l's...

people who have spent their money on buying the product are paying for the site to keep running, which means they should be the only people that get the bandwidth for d/ling effects...
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 9:49pm

Post 21 of 44

Joshua Davies

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people who have spent their money on buying the product are paying for the site to keep running, which means they should be the only people that get the bandwidth for d/ling effects...
It is not that they should be the only people able to download, but that is the only way we can afford it. We get so many random downloads that the prices for the server were going to get crazy - more money than we make on AlamDV.
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 10:53pm

Post 22 of 44

jack1984

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I want to apologize to you Schwar, if you took what I said personally. Again, it's not an attack aimed at you. Just the way you do business. It's your site, you can do what you want.

To an outsider looking to buy your product though, it's seems heavy handed, and a tad greedy. It looks like your trying to justify the means to an end, and frankly, I really don't buy the story. I believe you've been given the advice to cut off the access to the plug-ins to squeeze those you think might be getting something for free. Whatever I guess.


Good luck in your endeavours.
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 11:18pm

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jarar1

Force: 390 | Joined: 1st Nov 2001 | Posts: 228

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By attacking the way he does business, it is an attack on a personal level.

This all sounds like the whining of someone who was enjoying useing the program without paying, and is complaining he lost his opprotunity to rip off csb-digital.
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 11:31pm

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av11d

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i have a recommendation:

Schwar: you say the liscense says only plug-ins for AlamDV can be used in AlamDV. However, the the format of AlamDV plug-in is just a bunch of folder and images, it is not really a type of file. So, I think to get around running into problems with this later, is to do one of two:

1. Make plug-ins into ONE file with an unused extension (not likely to happen)

2. Create a plug-in liscense stating that: "All the files in the sublevels of this folder can only be used in conjunction, or in, AlamDV2." You would then make it so that plugger always added this .txt file into the main folder of the plug-in.

What do you think?
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 11:39pm

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BDOG

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jack1984 this is the way I look at it. The effects are created with the AlamPlugger for AlamDV. If people are allowed to download them for use with doggy serials or other programs CSB will need more bandwith which will drive up the price of the program. CSB could create many more plugins if they wanted to but this would mean hiring a plugin maker and once again driving up the price of the program. All CSb are trying to do is protect the community which supports them.
I have been watching CSB grow for many months now and think its a great experiment in COMMUNITY. Its admirable how much time people spend creating plugins they are requested by other members all for FREE. Trying to associate these guys with Microsoft is way off the mark. In fact they are doing the opposite by promoting free plugins within the AlamDV community.
Its simple. Download the demo. Test it with the plugins included. Then make your decision - buy it or not.
Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2002, 11:42pm

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BDOG

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Rating: +1

One more thing jack1984. Have a look at other programs. AE paintshop etc. Companies create plugins and sell them as extras. These guys are promoting plugins as FREE trade between the AlamDV members and you suggest they are looking more like Microsoft? Come on.
Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2002, 1:11am

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Radar

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I am still wondering how is it possible to use AlamDV plugins with After Effects? It doesn't seem possible to me.
Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2002, 1:21am

Post 28 of 44

jack1984

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BDOG....Um, there is a program which is almost exactly like AlamDV called Illsion. I'm not going to post the url for it, that's a bit tacky...You can probably find it with a casual search of Google. Anyhow, if you go there, you'll find a community of people, just like here, who create plugins for Illsion, and they're released on a monthly basis. The plug-ins are free. No sign up, no hassle, no nasty comments....

And to set the record straight (kind of nasty community here), I'm not a frickin' thief. I don't own AlamDV, and don't have a copy of it. I write software for a living, and don't promote piracy or use pirated software. I sent Schwar an url to an illegal site posting copies of his serials a couple of months back. Yep, that's me, the honest thief...

Nice way you have of welcoming people by calling them thieves. Good way to promote a product. Kind of a Ted Turner thing eh? If you don't watch the commercials, you must be a thief. Nice...
Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2002, 1:48am

Post 29 of 44

BDOG

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jack1984 I am not calling you a thief but you have to understand why people maybe 'nasty' when they see a person come in and criticise the progranm owners. Words like paranoid, stingy and smart stuff like 'can anyone say microsoft certainly dont endear you to any of the loyal AlamDv community.

Can you answer a couple of questions for me so I can try and understand where you are coming from.
1. If you do not own AlamDV why does it bother you if you can download the plug-ins or not?
2. Why do you surf this site so often if you do not own the program?

By the way. I went to the illusion website and was very interested to find out that the demo version of the program has the following limitations.

The demo version of Illusion 2.0 is identical to the full version of Illusion with the following restrictions:
- Projects are fixed at 320x240
- Only the demo emitter library can be used
- The demo emitter library can not be edited
- All output has a watermark added

So there is not really much difference. With the demo you can only use the plug-ins that are included. The libaries can only be used in the program (full working program) anyway? Also its a $299 USD program (means they can afford more bandwidth) that in my eyes looks pretty lame. So I think you are out of line.
Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2002, 2:48pm

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Lord Dugall

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BDOG, I am not a thief, and I downloaded all the plugins...! unsure Why? Because you can look at all the pictures and see how it is working and then, see the result on other people movies (Oh yeah, that is why I come to this site that often!).

Also, by downloading all the plugins, when comes the moment of buying the program, you have all the plugins, even if CSB Digital wants to erase some, for some reason.

I really liked coming to this site, give my opinion on the amateur movie making, my help on problem that could occured, I even help a plugin maker without seeing the plugin in the program! But with all the restrictions (that by the way I understand) chances are that you won't see a lot of Lord Dugall in the future... sad
Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2002, 3:22pm

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X

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I'm sorry but if you connect to a site and say "I don't own the program but Im going to give you advice about how to run your company and put it in the form of a backhanded compliment" then you should expect to not recieve a warm welcome.

If you were on another site you would be called a troll. Not being part of the community it is very easy for you to tell people how to do things without being sure how they work.

First, If I write something it is mine. If I save in in txt it is mine. bmp.. mine. Any format mine. The plugins.. mine. I agreed to the contract when I posted it here. Your agrument about that is invalid.

Also, that has NOTHING to do with the anti-trust suit against microsoft.

And the people here make plugins for THE PEOPLE HERE. They make plugins for the registered users of the alamdv community. I have time and time again asked for a plugin and people made them for me for FREE. You think Schwar benifited when AXEMAN made me a bat signal? I already owned the program. And why should someone else be able to just come in here and get a handout?

jack1984 you were very out of line. I would apologies or move on. You have 4 posts and you post an opionion which has been proven wrong on every point. These guys have worked very hard to make this program and community very nice and when people attack them unfairly you are darn right that they get defended.
Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2002, 6:16pm

Post 32 of 44

jarar1

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Well said, X.
Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2002, 8:15pm

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av11d

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X wrote:

And the people here make plugins for THE PEOPLE HERE. They make plugins for the registered users of the alamdv community. I have time and time again asked for a plugin and people made them for me for FREE. You think Schwar benifited when AXEMAN made me a bat signal? I already owned the program. And why should someone else be able to just come in here and get a handout?
X, i agree with everything except the that part. I DO think schwar benefited from Axeman making you a plug-in. Now, when he markets the software, he can say "AlamDV2: featuring spaceships, bat signals, and bullet hits!". All of those plug-ins were never made by CSB-DIGITAL, but by people willing to help out. So, therefore schwar is reaping some benefits of the talents of these people such as Axeman and KermZ. Of course, I don't believe this is wrong in any way, since Axeman knew what was going to happen with the plug-in, and he did it out of his free will. It's not like Schwar demanded that he make them or anything. Which is what makes this community great: people contributing for free.

So, I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying your point is wrong biggrin

Besides that, well stated.
Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2002, 8:33pm

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Lord Dugall

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So X, if I undestand right, the forum would be restricted to the alamDV owner, not the general public or film making lovers?

There is absolutly no sarcarme in this post, i just wan't to know. smile
Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2002, 11:28pm

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Joshua Davies

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We don't benefit from these plugins as much as our users, but anything that benefits the community is good for csb-digital. The Illusion plugins were mentioned in another post because they are given away free on their web site - these plugins only work in Illusion so they don't have the problem of thousands of downloads from people who don't own the Illusion program. Illusion is also more expensive program and their web site has hardly any hits compared to the AlamDV site.

The main plugins that sell AlamDV are the lightswords, lasers and muzzle flashes (just take a look at the cinema) - these are all plugins that we created at the start - only now are people beginning to show what AlamDV can do with all the new and interesting effects that are appearing. We benifit from having more plugins if they are free or not so that isn't the point. We made the open plugin structure so people could make lots of plugins for AlamDV and therefore it would be a better program for all who use it. It also allows any user to change plugins quickly and easily in a graphics application.

The demo is only that, a demo - therefore extra plugins are not really required. If people feel we should add a few more sample plugins we will. As for the people that download the plugins, strip out the images and use them in another application....that isn't really anything to do with us, and its not something we ever claimed to support.

What we are doing now is setting up the system so when we have 50,000 users rather than 1,000 we can still support free plugin hosting and download for our users - an important part of the AlamDV community.

The plugin system is simple, fair and free to AlamDV users - the people who support csb-digital and the future development of AlamDV.
Posted: Tue, 18th Jun 2002, 1:01pm

Post 36 of 44

X

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Dougal,

Not at all. I am saying that the plugins should be for people who purchased ALMDV. The forums are open to everyone as well as the movies. You contribute to this community and while I am puzzled that you don't own ALAMDV that is your call. I don't see anything wrong in restricting parts of a community to community members. It is done in everything from gyms to shooting clubs to the internet. Hope that cleared that up.
Posted: Tue, 18th Jun 2002, 1:53pm

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Lord Dugall

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Thanks for the answer X, the purchase of Alam will be done soon...

I really like this community!
Posted: Tue, 25th Jun 2002, 10:41pm

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Joshua Davies

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As we predicted (well as malone predicted), making it so only purchasers of AlamDV2 can download plugins has reduced the load on the server buy over 50%!!

Exactly what was needed.
Posted: Tue, 25th Jun 2002, 10:56pm

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averagejoe

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50%!?!? That is crazy! Yeah,yeah, deem this post useless... That is just freaking amazing! crazy
Posted: Tue, 25th Jun 2002, 11:44pm

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Kid

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Heh, also by using peoples artwork in ways they have not given you permission opens you up to legal action. I know if anyone uses the kid head plugin outside of alamdv I'll sue their asses off. razz
Posted: Thu, 4th Jul 2002, 8:21pm

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raider

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I believe I've also seen people film the preview window and submit it to the cinema! No watermark, AND all the plugins? That's just cheating these guys.
Posted: Thu, 4th Jul 2002, 9:22pm

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Hajiku_Flip

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Eh, wouldn't filming the preview window look weird due to not being real time? Or do they .. eh? It just doesn't make sense. tard
Posted: Fri, 5th Jul 2002, 12:48pm

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raider

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hmmm - that's true. I just thought I saw a movie with some desktop or alam program border - I don't know - there's too many tricks out there. Maybe they play the movie in almost real time and speed it up in AP??
Posted: Fri, 5th Jul 2002, 9:19pm

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moebius

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I notice that the message I posted yesterday has been deleted and just want to say that I didn't mean to offend anyone who read it smile I truly believe that the situation (re: plugins) as it stands now is ideal.