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Microphone

Posted: Sun, 7th Oct 2007, 4:36pm

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Quvoo

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Hi,
My camera quality is good enough for me right now and I know how to use all the buttons and stuff. But my audio sucks, so I'm looking for a microphone and I know nothing about them. I found this: http://cgi.ebay.ca/NEW-14-37-Inch-Camera-Camcorder-Shotgun-Mic-Microphone_W0QQitemZ330171524631QQihZ014QQcategoryZ83857QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
(I have a canon by the way)
I have no idea if this is crap or a rip off. By the price I'm thinking it's no real.

Need help.
Posted: Sun, 7th Oct 2007, 5:42pm

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Dancamfx

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I made a post like this a few months ago and I ended up purchasing a very good shotgun mic. I bought a Rode NTG-2 shotgun mic, It cost me around $300. The mic you found on ebay is not very good, dont buy it!
Posted: Sun, 7th Oct 2007, 6:11pm

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pdrg

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The $10 is probably worth it, the $25 postage probably isn't!
Posted: Sun, 7th Oct 2007, 9:09pm

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Dancamfx

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That Mic you found on ebay isnt worth spending your money on. The mic already on your camera is probably better than that one on ebay.
Posted: Sun, 7th Oct 2007, 11:49pm

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Quvoo

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Well the mic on my camera sucks... really sucks.

Any suggestions on a good beginner shotgun mic?
Posted: Mon, 8th Oct 2007, 12:27am

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xanetia

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well, after some info from another thread, Ive decided to buy a RODE videomic, this seems to be a good starting point. this is going for $290 NZ (about $221 US)
Posted: Mon, 8th Oct 2007, 12:53am

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Garrison

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xanetia wrote:

well, after some info from another thread, Ive decided to buy a RODE videomic, this seems to be a good starting point. this is going for $290 NZ (about $221 US)
It actually sells for $150 US.
Posted: Mon, 8th Oct 2007, 2:15am

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xanetia

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ah well, thats import prices for you :p

I was just converting it. Thanks for the correction
Posted: Mon, 8th Oct 2007, 4:20am

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Garrison

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xanetia wrote:

ah well, thats import prices for you :p

I was just converting it. Thanks for the correction
My bad... forgot about importing add ons wink
Posted: Mon, 8th Oct 2007, 6:30am

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Dancamfx

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The Rode video mic is what you should go with. Its smaller than most other shotgun mics but puts out great sound and has easy adjustable settings for different types of conditions. And like stated before, it runs about $150.
Posted: Mon, 8th Oct 2007, 7:00am

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BlueSmudge

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If the postage wasn't so high, I would say you should go for the ebay one. Sometimes cheap mics just get it right, and if not you only wasted $10.
I myself have gone with an Audio Technica AT897, which still comes in a great kit from B$H for $250.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/300615-REG/Audio_Technica_AT897_AT897_Short_Condenser.html
I never liked the concept of the Rhode Videomic, but I hear they are great.

If you are going to spend the money, anything over $150 from a reputable brand will give you great sound. Unfortunately, price usually tells you how good it is.
Posted: Mon, 8th Oct 2007, 2:10pm

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Quvoo

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Thanks for all of your help. I'm thinking about buying the RODE videomic. It dosen't seem to have the extension cord with it, butI'm guessing you can by it n that site somewhere too.

I would actually waste 30 bucks if I would buy that e-bay one, but since I'm goin for great sound not just my camera mic sound I'll just put that 30 bucks in my RODE mic budget (yes, I don't work but I can get money other ways).
Posted: Mon, 8th Oct 2007, 2:41pm

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Super Cameraman

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I heard that if you plug an extension cord into a RODE videomic you get a lot or noise. Is this true?
Posted: Mon, 8th Oct 2007, 2:46pm

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pdrg

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Just remember, no matter what mic you buy, cheap - mid - pro, get it JUST outside of the frame and run a balanced line back to the camera for the best results.

Honestly, keeping a cheap nasty mic close to the action will give you better results than a pro mic camera mounted in a noisy environment.
Posted: Mon, 8th Oct 2007, 10:39pm

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Dancamfx

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You can get all sorts of different length cords from 1 foot to 50 feet. A longer the cord does NOT create any noise or make the sound quality go down. The only reason a cord would lower the quality of the audio is if it was a cheap cord or one that doesn't support the quality of the mic. So basically dont buy your cords from radio shack or Ebay (Unless its a name brand cord being sold as new). The cords that Im familiar with that provide great sound quality are Mogami, Hosa, and Audio-Technica. There are more good quality cords out there, these are just the ones Im familiar with.
Posted: Tue, 9th Oct 2007, 1:15pm

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pdrg

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Dancamfx wrote:

You can get all sorts of different length cords from 1 foot to 50 feet. A longer the cord does NOT create any noise or make the sound quality go down.
Not strictly true, all analogue signals degrade through copper - more copper = more degradation. Bad copper also = more degradation.

If you run the line balanced to the camera (if the camera has XLR's or a Beacktek Box or similar - not any form of jack or minijack) you minimise interference, mains hum, etc (which you'll certainly get with a 50' mic lead unbalanced). Unbalanced, you're just asking for problems with that length run of cable with mains hum, other electromagnetic signals and to some degree cross-talk.

Whether or not you can personally hear the difference/are sensitive to/really need to care about 50Hz hum, etc, is another question, but it's just not true to say that analogue signals do not degrade in cables.
Posted: Tue, 9th Oct 2007, 5:26pm

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Dancamfx

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pdrg wrote:

Dancamfx wrote:

You can get all sorts of different length cords from 1 foot to 50 feet. A longer the cord does NOT create any noise or make the sound quality go down.
Not strictly true, all analogue signals degrade through copper - more copper = more degradation. Bad copper also = more degradation.

If you run the line balanced to the camera (if the camera has XLR's or a Beacktek Box or similar - not any form of jack or minijack) you minimise interference, mains hum, etc (which you'll certainly get with a 50' mic lead unbalanced). Unbalanced, you're just asking for problems with that length run of cable with mains hum, other electromagnetic signals and to some degree cross-talk.

Whether or not you can personally hear the difference/are sensitive to/really need to care about 50Hz hum, etc, is another question, but it's just not true to say that analogue signals do not degrade in cables.
There are certain cases where improper use of cords, cheap quality cords, and damaged cords can cause the sound quality to lessen but it is NOT true that the longer the cord the lesser the quality. If you buy an XLR cable that supports you mics sound quality and is a name brand there should be no interference or loss of sound quality. Theres also a myth out there that three 10 foot cords put together to make a 30ft cord will have less quality then just one 30ft cord, this is NOT true. They will have the same quality.
Posted: Tue, 9th Oct 2007, 5:31pm

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MrGoodbomb

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Dancamfx wrote:

pdrg wrote:

Dancamfx wrote:

You can get all sorts of different length cords from 1 foot to 50 feet. A longer the cord does NOT create any noise or make the sound quality go down.
Not strictly true, all analogue signals degrade through copper - more copper = more degradation. Bad copper also = more degradation.

If you run the line balanced to the camera (if the camera has XLR's or a Beacktek Box or similar - not any form of jack or minijack) you minimise interference, mains hum, etc (which you'll certainly get with a 50' mic lead unbalanced). Unbalanced, you're just asking for problems with that length run of cable with mains hum, other electromagnetic signals and to some degree cross-talk.

Whether or not you can personally hear the difference/are sensitive to/really need to care about 50Hz hum, etc, is another question, but it's just not true to say that analogue signals do not degrade in cables.
There are certain cases where improper use of cords, cheap quality cords, and damaged cords can cause the sound quality to lessen but it is NOT true that the longer the cord the lesser the quality. If you buy an XLR cable that supports you mics sound quality and is a name brand there should be no interference or loss of sound quality. Theres also a myth out there that three 10 foot cords put together to make a 30ft cord will have less quality then just one 30ft cord, this is NOT true. They will have the same quality.
I'm moreso familiar with instrument cables (guitar, bass, etc), but there are a LOT of rumors, myths, and assumptions about signal degredation through various cables and methods of transfer. The 10x3 to 30 is one of them. But many musicians use a clean signal boost to amplify their resulting signal without adding distortion through gain. Is there a method for film audio, on-set, like this?

Does anyone use a small mixer between their camera and their mic to mix the sound as it comes in, or maybe run a second mic to one input?
Posted: Tue, 9th Oct 2007, 6:49pm

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pdrg

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Dancamfx wrote:


it is NOT true that the longer the cord the lesser the quality.
...
there should be no interference or loss of sound quality. Theres also a myth out there that three 10 foot cords put together to make a 30ft cord will have less quality then just one 30ft cord, this is NOT true. They will have the same quality.
Sorry, but without rewriting physics, that's just not the case. As I agreed, running a balanced line you do not introduce the interference of mains hum, etc, but saying there is NO signal degradation in a long as opposed to short cable is just not true. The degradation isn't major with a good quality cable, but it's not non-existent.
Take the limiting case - in your words, a cable could be infinitely long without signal degradation - clearly untrue (or why would would I have spent hour after hour repairing booster amplifiers for the BBC? Or are they 'wrong'?).

Oh, and the connectors thing - every time you get an interface, you get the potential for degradation - interconnects oxidise over time, fewer interconnects to oxidise, fewer problems.

I appreciate you may not be sensitive to the differences, and that's fine, but saying entropy and cable capacitance don't exist/degrade a signal is naive, sorry mate.
Posted: Wed, 10th Oct 2007, 12:32am

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Arktic

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pdrg wrote:

why would would I have spent hour after hour repairing booster amplifiers for the BBC? Or are they 'wrong'?
Maybe they're wrong - but even if they are, they'll rig the phone vote to say they're not wink
Sorry, couldn't resist.

On a serious note - pdrg is right, he knows what he's talking about. It's a question of basic physics, not 'myths'.

Cheers.
Posted: Wed, 10th Oct 2007, 1:29am

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DaFlea

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Its a little thing called resistance and you can use Ohms Law to prove this myth...

The smaller diameter wire mean more resistance, same with more connectors. More resistance means poor signal quality not to mention you make your equipment work harder.

Im sure this same myth will apply to mic's
Posted: Wed, 10th Oct 2007, 1:25pm

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pdrg

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Arktic wrote:


Maybe they're wrong - but even if they are, they'll rig the phone vote to say they're not wink
Boom Boom! Excellent wink

Sorry, couldn't resist.

On a serious note - pdrg is right, he knows what he's talking about. It's a question of basic physics, not 'myths'.

Cheers.
Maybe this 'myth' business came about by confusing digital and analogue signals, or only considering the interference difference between a non-balanced vs a balanced line or something.

But you're right, I have my electronic engineering, my PA Company and my film professional credentials to back me up on this one wink
Posted: Wed, 10th Oct 2007, 2:00pm

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Demonicy

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Just an idea, but you can dismiss it as you feel free. It's not about the mic, but how to improve its effectiveness.

If/When you get a new mic, why not hook it up to a DIY-made Boom-Stick? (Basically, a pole with a mic on the end to get closer to the sound. Used a lot when people are talking to get clearer voice recognition.)

You can make something practical and durable enough for £10/$20 and it will deffinetely improve the quality and loudness of your sound, as people tend to complain of not hearing conversations or speech clearly during a movie. If your interested just message me or something and i will type up what things you would need and how to make it. me
Posted: Wed, 17th Oct 2007, 6:10pm

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dawookiehunter

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i'm currently looking at this set up here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=160083958895&Category=3319&_trksid=p3907.m29

any advise
Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007, 8:07am

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Dead Iris

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Sorry to hijack a bit but any tips on how to get quality sound without a budget and little money (like 50$ range, give or take)?

I'm thinking of getting a new camera so I wont have much money for other equipment.
Posted: Fri, 19th Oct 2007, 5:45pm

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pdrg

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a cheap mic close to the action will usually give you better sound than your onboard mic, so just keep any mic just outside the frame and use the audio from that.

You can spend way more than $50, but if you don't get the mic close to the action it'd be wasted cash - this is the best bang-for-buck