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Mac or pc

Posted: Sun, 20th Jan 2008, 4:25am

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Horcruxes88

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Im started going to new england tech for ausioand video production. every one there talks about how great macs are. My professer says that yhe best way to edit is to have a mac with at leadt 2gb ram. My question is can I get a pc laptop with possibley 3gb ram and just use vegas. Because fianl cut pro is like 700usa dollars and the macbookpros are 2000usa dolaars. Way to much right now. I can get a dell or sony 3gb ram for 1500dolars and vegas for over 100dollars. would I still get proffesional quality results with a pc? Also it would such because I have 3dsmax and cumbostion for th epc and 3dsmax is only for pc. Thanks
Posted: Sun, 20th Jan 2008, 4:55am

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Mandalorian

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Personally, I like PC's. They're cheaper and they have great programs. You can still achieve professional results on PC's and Sony Vegas is a wonderful piece of software. Yes PC's can have 3GB of RAM, some even up to 4. Also, PC's can have AMD processors. AMD usually runs faster than Intel processors (In my experience) and are better for handeling graphics. Also, don't forget the graphics card. DO NOT get an integrated one, they use your processors whereas non-integrated graphics cards have some of their own processing power and RAM.

I don't know where it is exactly, but there's a website somewhere that tells all the parts macs use, so if you want one, you could build it for cheaper than buying the real thing. I'll have to find out and get back to you.
Posted: Sun, 20th Jan 2008, 8:24am

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ssj john

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One word....Deleted
Posted: Sun, 20th Jan 2008, 9:14am

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Adman

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ssj john wrote:

One word....Deleted
I disagree. The rule is

3. Mac/PC/Unix/Console Versus Mac/PC/Unix/Console (or associated Operating Systems).

Exceptions will be made for those who are genuinely inquisitive and requesting assistance, but discussion will be monitored heavily and digital smack-downs may be imposed if things get out of hand, as they invariably do.
This isn't a blatant mac vs PC thread. He is genuinely curious and asking advice; he isn't saying PCs or macs are better, he just wants to hear if the preconceptions of macs are true, or whether he can get the same results from a PC.

Now to answer your question. When it comes to film-making and for that matter anything, it is best to use an OS you're comfortable with. If windows computers, like myself, annoy you or don't make you feel comfortable then go for a mac. If macs seem to expensive and you have no experience with them, you the user may be a fish out of water, even though the OS is easy to learn and it may be best if you can get along with PCs to save yourself some money and time and stick with windows. That way you will avoid a learning curve that you don't need when you are learning film-making software like 3DS Max.You can get the same results from a PC, you just achieve the results slightly differently with different software and obviously a different OS.

As for what to go for spec wise, see Mandalorian's post.
Posted: Sun, 20th Jan 2008, 9:43am

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pdrg

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You can get excellent and perfect results with PC or Mac, with Vegas or FCP or any NLE.

The college almost certainly says take a Mac as they don't think they can support multiple platforms - the teaching will be done on FCP and having a Mac/FCP will be easier to follow course notes. That said, most NLE'S are so similar that for most edits, a decent editor could come to any of them cold and walk away with an edited film!

If you're confident with a PC, personally I'd stick with it.
Posted: Sun, 20th Jan 2008, 9:53am

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NickF

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If you are going to be taught about how to use FCP and on Macs, get a Mac.

If it doesn't matter, it's up to you (but if it was up to me, I'd get a Mac, because Windows can still be run via Boot Camp or Parallels)
Posted: Sun, 20th Jan 2008, 10:27am

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Dancamfx

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Its a fact that 90% of the Movie Industry uses Macs for editing, but they use Avid rather than Final Cut.
Posted: Sun, 20th Jan 2008, 11:43am

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pdrg

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Dancamfx wrote:

Its a fact that 90% of the Movie Industry uses Macs for editing, but they use Avid rather than Final Cut.
It's true that Avis is the de facto standard, but just to clarify, it runs identically (as far as interface goes) on Mac, PC, and most frequently dedicated/custom hardware at the top end!
Posted: Sun, 20th Jan 2008, 3:52pm

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DVStudio

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Go for the PC. I have six and I have found they are much better than Macs (no offense to Mac users). If you build your own like I did, you can put 16GB of RAM in it. No limits with PCs. Also, they have a wider variety of editing programs available. Go with the PC.

The 90% Mac thing is a total lie.

Last edited Wed, 3rd Sep 2008, 5:00pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 20th Jan 2008, 5:10pm

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Atom

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Dancamfx wrote:

Its a fact that 90% of the Movie Industry uses Macs for editing, but they use Avid rather than Final Cut.
Lie.
Posted: Sun, 20th Jan 2008, 5:15pm

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A Pickle

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You can do just fine with a PC editing platform. Macs aren't bad, but they do tend to be considerably more expensive than similarly-equipped PC's, and you do have a lot of very good editing programs as options on the PC. Not to mention that... you don't need to get a Mac Pro just to have a quad core.

I would recommend getting a nice, 17" Dell laptop with 2 GB of RAM. Don't bother getting a Sony laptop -- apart from the fact that I don't trust Sony with a breath of air, their laptops are just about as expensive as comparably-spec'd Macs, and so you might as well just buy a Mac in that case. Dell's laptops are very high quality, come with a plethora of features, they're screamingly affordable AND you get world-class customer service with them.

Another thing about PC's is that... you can find and tailor one to meet your needs specifically. With Apple... you can't really do that. You're limited to their selection of models, and in some cases... that's that. In many cases, Apple can't match PC's -- period. I have a laptop with two hard drives in RAID 0 and a Mobility Radeon X1900 graphics card -- Apple has never shipped anything like it before. It'd be nice if they did... but... reality is... they haven't.

I'm all for notebooks because, well, for all intents and purposes, they're as fast as desktops these days... and easily just as capable. Dell's 17" notebooks come with screens that are 1920x1200 pixels, which is just a breathtaking screen resolution. You'll find that you have SO MUCH space to work with onscreen. Another thing is, the 17" notebook from Dell comes with the option of a fairly high end graphics card (an Nvidia Geforce 8600M GT), dual-hard drives (which, believe me, come in handy when editing video), and a nice, full keyboard WITH a number pad.

Mandalorian wrote:

Also, PC's can have AMD processors. AMD usually runs faster than Intel processors (In my experience) and are better for handeling graphics.
I don't know where you get this. You can have any and every AMD processor you want right now -- they're losing, badly, to Intel in performance. The Core 2 Duo is absolutely dominating AMD's offerings.
Posted: Sun, 20th Jan 2008, 8:48pm

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Fill

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It depends on your taste. I've used PCs my whole life, and whenever I try to work in Photoshop, Flash, or Premiere on a Mac, my productivity level falls down a cliff. The simple reasons for that are small things like shortcut changes, and different OS layouts. I'm not saying transitions aren't impossible, but rather that it's not as easy as it's advertised(atleast not in my case).

PCs are fine for editing films. If you saw the recent topic in the filmmaking forum in which people voted what NLE they preferred, Vegas and FCP were tied. They're both very powerful, but don't expect them to do the work for you. The artist makes the tool.
Posted: Sun, 20th Jan 2008, 9:00pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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As usual, spec up what you have at home to match what you will be learning with or being taught. It doesn't matter which people think is better or what an industry standard as - as most creative techniques are techniques which can be done in any program.

Being able to take Uni work home and continue working on it is such a fundamentally important thing. I would never have passed Uni if I couldn't have seamlessly worked between home and at Uni.

-Hybrid.
Posted: Sun, 20th Jan 2008, 11:05pm

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NuttyBanana

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Fill wrote:

I've used PCs my whole life, and whenever I try to work in Photoshop, Flash, or Premiere on a Mac, my productivity level falls down a cliff.
That's funny as in my experience I hated Photoshop until I used it on a Mac and Flash was much nicer to use. Everyones experience and tastes are simply going to be different every time.

As for your situation, I agree with Hybrid. Try and keep it close to what you're using at Uni, as well as all the other things mentioned already you'll save on risking corrupt files etc. They may cost more but you've got a uni grant I assume, or does it work differently over there?
Posted: Mon, 21st Jan 2008, 7:51pm

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Bryan M Block

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Most Avid editors I know, and I'm talkiing high end Nitris users have HP server class PC's at the heart of their systems...NOT MAC's. Pdrg has already explained that AVID works on both platforms, but those that I know are using AVID on the server class PC.

Now, having said that, I started in video production professionally in 1997 and everything we had at my production company was MAC based. I love the Mac interface and IMO Mac's are far more efficient in use of the actual system hardware than PC's running Windows will ever be. Mac's are great- but they are somewhat of a "closed system" You work on a Mac, you go Mac 100% and you have somewhat limited choices as to what you are going to use to accomplish certain things on the Mac- again, don't get me wrong, almost ALL of the choices on mac for any given task KICK ASS though! The problem is that they are generally expensive (compared to what you can get to do something similar on a PC).

Everything has changed now. There is a TON of free and low cost software out there for the PC, PC's are powerful enough to get out of their own ntOS's way finally, and "plug and pray" is much more "plug and play" than ever before. Things like AVID are being shipped on highend PC's that are optimized for performace. If I were starting from scratch, today, with nothing- I would seriously consider a tricked out MAC with final cut and the adobe photoshop/after effects thing. But as of today, I can still go buy a $500 off the shelf PC, upgrade the RAM and maybe a graphcis card upgrade and get to work, It's hard to customize a Mac affordably, and troubleshooting and repair are a big pain in the bollocks. I have friends who are 100% Mac based and they have mocked me when I had problems with my windows machines, but in general I have been able to sort out the problem and repair it myself using forums and such, while they have needed to take their machines and be without them for weeks to an "authorized Mac dealer" while they are sorted out.

six-to-one / half-dozen-to-the-other.

IMO the advantages of each are:

MAC: + slick, efficient use of computing power, software and hardware are made for each other, large online community and "identity" support, most apps are chock full of what you want to do anyway, not what you don't care about.
-Expensive, repair and troubleshooting pain, limited choices on apps sometimes.

PC: + cheap, easy to modify and upgrade, lots of apps to choose from, fixes for common support problems can be found online, HUGE aftermarket and second-hand market
- new computers often chock full of crap you don't want or need that slow your computer down, stray .dll files, prone to more virus and security risks, less efficient with computing power- need a robust machine for exceptional perfomance, sometimes with customized boxes, hardware and software conflicts can arise and be hard to diagnose.



.02
Posted: Mon, 21st Jan 2008, 8:42pm

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Penguin

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Atom wrote:

Dancamfx wrote:

Its a fact that 90% of the Movie Industry uses Macs for editing, but they use Avid rather than Final Cut.
Lie.
Way to be informative Atom! smile

But seriously, if that isn't true, then enlighten us to what the real number is. If you just post stuff like this, it's bound to get rate downs.
Posted: Mon, 21st Jan 2008, 11:53pm

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Glitch

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Macs are better all together, and if you get one of the newer ones, you can run Windows on it too.
Posted: Tue, 22nd Jan 2008, 12:50am

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A Pickle

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NuttyBanana wrote:

That's funny as in my experience I hated Photoshop until I used it on a Mac and Flash was much nicer to use. Everyones experience and tastes are simply going to be different every time.
You know, I respect your decision to do your computing on a Mac...

...but seriously? The apps look and work exactly the same on both platforms. I had no trouble moving from Adobe Premiere Elements 1.0 to FinalCut Pro 3 on Mac OS X Panther. Really. I uh... don't get it. I mean... really. Photoshop has buttons and menus in the same places on Mac OS X as it does on Windows... eh?

Last edited Tue, 22nd Jan 2008, 2:16am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 22nd Jan 2008, 2:09am

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Atom

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Glitch wrote:

Macs are better all together
Lie. And I don't need "facts" to back this one up.
Posted: Tue, 22nd Jan 2008, 3:49am

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Serpent

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Atom wrote:

Glitch wrote:

Macs are better all together
Lie. And I don't need "facts" to back this one up.
Not a lie... his opinion. And don't put the word "facts" in quotes, what Darth Penguin said about your post was spot-on. You completely ignored him.

I hate how you have to say "IMO" after every goddamn thing you say on the internet. Of course it's my opinion, I'm the one who said it.

And Atom, you will of course reply with "I was kidding, messing around, etc." While you may have intended it to be lighthearted, you still meant what you said and you still completely ignored Penguin. Seems like you are just trolling around some of these potentially controversial topics to bring about some kind of conflict when there probably wasn't going to be a conflict. That's how I see it anyway, IMO.

EDIT: What I said last, I don't mean constantly. Just in these topics where debate usually arouses, someone starts by saying "ah there's going to be a debate." Then another follows up with "not if we stay on topic and avoid that." Then a few posts later...

Last edited Tue, 22nd Jan 2008, 3:52am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 22nd Jan 2008, 3:50am

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Dancamfx

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pdrg wrote:

Dancamfx wrote:

Its a fact that 90% of the Movie Industry uses Macs for editing, but they use Avid rather than Final Cut.
It's true that Avis is the de facto standard, but just to clarify, it runs identically (as far as interface goes) on Mac, PC, and most frequently dedicated/custom hardware at the top end!
Ive worked in a couple production companies over here in Hollywood and El Segundo California and that fact that I stated is what I learned. Over 90% of the computers used for Editing (Not Sound, Graphics, or CG, Just editing) are Macs. And about 95% of all the editing computers in the movie industry runs avid for editing. Ive already gotten into this with other members on this site so unless you've worked in a production company over here (LA) as I did I dont need to hear others opinions on what they THINK or WANT to believe the Industry uses for editing. Im not trying to be a jerk, Im just trying to tell everyone a fact that I learned while working.
Posted: Tue, 22nd Jan 2008, 4:18am

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Atom

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Serpent wrote:

A whole lot of whiny assumptions.
I'm not trolling, I'm just irritated by statements like 'Macs are better altogether'. And not that you're a fanboy, but I'm sure you'd be at-the-ready to berate anyone who said the same for PCs. And to attack me on not backing something up that I didn't even respond to yet and defend that comment is beyond ludicrous. But that's entering murky fanboy waters......for both of us.

But that's besides the point, of which I think has gone nowhere and is fated either way to end up inconclusive. We'll all share our opinion and for every PC pro there's a con or an equally-adequate Mac feature, and vice-versa.

It's all a ridiculous waste of time that, like I said, will end up nowhere. The originator of the question 'Mac or PC?' will probably fall onto a preference that was there to begin with, anyway.

I like both machines and see the clear positives to editing on a Mac. I simply prefer a PC because I enjoy and can use most-efficiently Sony Vegas. If it came out on a Mac and functioned the same way, and a Mac looked favorable to me, I'd do just the same without the PC.

And Dancamfx, I'll definitely agree with you that ballpark about 95% of industry editing stations use Avid, but still not with FCP. Since you're basing the statement off of experience in the industry (although you're in California yourself), I'll say the same to PCs in that in the studios I've been to and the setups in Austin and at the University of Texas Film Department: it's about half-and-half. Not saying PCs are dominant, not saying Macs are. As far as I've been able to tell working in Dallas and visiting Austin, both big entertainment cities, it's a mixed bag of both platforms.

I was just kidding, Serpent. *Insert lighthearted remark here* wink

Last edited Tue, 22nd Jan 2008, 4:33am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 22nd Jan 2008, 4:33am

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Serpent

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Atom wrote:

Serpent wrote:

A whole lot of whiny assumptions.
I'm not trolling, I'm just irritated by statements like 'Macs are better altogether'. And to attack me on not backing something up that I didn't even respond to yet and defend that comment is beyond ludicrous.
I assumed you'd respond to it before addressing "Macs are better altogether." You do tend to ignore some things people address you on, so the "whiny assumptions" were made for a reason. It's not "beyond ludicrous."

I'm just irritated by these blank vs. blank topics where one person speaks their mind and then follows up with their retort. No one is going to look at this topic, with all the wordy posts, stumble across Glitch's post, then create a new tab, go to Apple.com, and get them selves a shiny new Mac (I know how much that would irritate you, comforting to know it isn't true?). My post's intention wasn't to "whine", as you put it, it was to bring up that issue. This topic isn't about the blank vs. blank debate, it's about the topic creator's query and informing him. You seem to find posts you don't like, take them personally (for some reason), and steer the topic in the wrong direction. Not my assumption, my observation of so many past topics. I'm fueling the fire, unintentionally, so I'm out unless an interesting discussion arouses within the topic. PM me if you must.


ALSO: What you said about me responding the same way to PCs: maybe the me in the past would. But I've moved past that Atom. I would hardly respond defensively. If someone said something misinformed, then I would clarify. You also admitted that you berated him for saying what he did about Macs.

Last edited Tue, 22nd Jan 2008, 4:37am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 22nd Jan 2008, 4:35am

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Atom

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Sigh. The struggle continues. smile
Posted: Tue, 22nd Jan 2008, 5:35am

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Coureur de Bois

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You can always do as I did and put an Apple sticker on a PC. Dual Platform, eh?
Posted: Wed, 23rd Jan 2008, 1:51pm

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Horcruxes88

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Thanks for all your help. Im not asking whats better. All I want to know is if I can get the same results on a pc. And I feel more confident that I can. I dont want you guys to argue about it. I dont think apple is going to give you any credit for fighting for them. What I mean is its not worth arguing about. I just want to make sure Im on the right track. The reason why I dont want a mac is because I have 3ds max and combustion. Also, I dont have that much money. I know how ot use a mac and I respect them, but I would rather stick with pc. Thanks agian