You are viewing an archive of the old fxhome.com forums. The community has since moved to hitfilm.com.

Expensive to upgrade from Elab to Vlab?

Posted: Mon, 4th Feb 2008, 8:44pm

Post 1 of 37

JUIDAR

Force: 1525 | Joined: 10th Feb 2006 | Posts: 502

VisionLab User Windows User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Okay first I want everyone to know that I"m not saying Fxhome products are expensive cause there not. Small price for Film like special effects that we could never achieve with out these programs.

But my gosh why is it so expensive to upgrade from say ELab Pro to Vision Lab. I almost want to just buy composite lab except I would rather have VLab because that combines both programs together right?

Are there really that many MORE features added vice versa just owning both Pro versions of the programs? And I do mean other than the lighting/electric engine.

Thanks and please don't think of this as negative feedback.
Posted: Mon, 4th Feb 2008, 9:08pm

Post 2 of 37

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

There's the commercial license to take in to account. Visionlab is really geared towards the professional/high end user more than the other applications.

-Hybrid.
Posted: Mon, 4th Feb 2008, 9:29pm

Post 3 of 37

RodyPolis

Force: 805 | Joined: 28th Apr 2007 | Posts: 1839

CompositeLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

what does the license do? does it allow you to sell it to other people?
Posted: Mon, 4th Feb 2008, 9:41pm

Post 4 of 37

JUIDAR

Force: 1525 | Joined: 10th Feb 2006 | Posts: 502

VisionLab User Windows User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

There's the commercial license to take in to account. Visionlab is really geared towards the professional/high end user more than the other applications.

-Hybrid.
That really doesn't answer my question at all. Other than I understand the license part.
Posted: Mon, 4th Feb 2008, 9:48pm

Post 5 of 37

Jabooza

Force: 2743 | Joined: 21st Jul 2006 | Posts: 1446

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

RodyPolis wrote:

what does the license do? does it allow you to sell it to other people?
All the license lets you do is not have to credit FXhome in everything you make with their software.


To be honest, I don't really get the whole commercial license thing, you pay money to buy the software, if you own the software shouldn't you own the right not to advertise for the company in all of your videos? Why should it cost money to not have to tell people what software you used to make you visual effects? I personally never really had a problem with crediting FXhome, but it just doesn't seem right. In any case, it's not something I have to worry about anymore since I now own VisionLab.


-Jabooza
Posted: Mon, 4th Feb 2008, 9:54pm

Post 6 of 37

JUIDAR

Force: 1525 | Joined: 10th Feb 2006 | Posts: 502

VisionLab User Windows User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

I just want to know why and how they justify charging so much besides just having the license what else does it have to offer that makes it so expensive.

I mean it's like the cost of buying 3 fxhome products not counting the one I already own.
Posted: Mon, 4th Feb 2008, 10:34pm

Post 7 of 37

Hendo

Force: 13107 | Joined: 16th Sep 2004 | Posts: 848

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

FXhome Team Member

A comparison of the Lab products is available here.

The main differences are that VisionLab has the lightning engine and a commercial (no credit required) license. But it also contains more grading filters than what you get in CompositeLab and/or EffectsLab, as well as some extra options.
Posted: Mon, 4th Feb 2008, 10:38pm

Post 8 of 37

Jabooza

Force: 2743 | Joined: 21st Jul 2006 | Posts: 1446

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

One of the extra options I'd like to point out that I find quite useful is the ability to apply composite filters to grade objects, allowing for much more control and freedom over composite filters.
Posted: Mon, 4th Feb 2008, 10:48pm

Post 9 of 37

Garrison

Force: 5404 | Joined: 9th Mar 2006 | Posts: 1530

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Just because you don't understand the license-thing, doesn't make it something frivolous. The owners of any intellectual property have the right to sell their product with "conditions" even if you "own" it by buying.

This happens everyday with music. You buy a song-it is yours. But you can't post it on a P2P network where people can get it for free without buying. It is illegal (yes I know that some small, unknown artist may want their stuff up there for free, but that's their decision).

So even though you own it, you are limited.

Visionlab had a 30% Christmas discount WITH VideoWrap included. That is a GREAT deal.

FXHome sets their price to what is fair to them so that they can make money to cover THEIR expenses.

Last edited Tue, 5th Feb 2008, 2:14am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 4th Feb 2008, 11:41pm

Post 10 of 37

King of Blades

Force: 1700 | Joined: 29th May 2006 | Posts: 794

EffectsLab Pro User Windows User

Gold Member

VisionLab Studio, along with all of the other Lab products, are possibly the most advanced visual effects software to this day. These programs are geared towards filmmakers who don't own high-end VFX products-- such as Adobe After Effects-- and are tight on budgets.

90% of today's VFX products cost you hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars, and require you to pay for presets, plug-ins, etc, along with any updates that come along.

Fxhome does not require such a strenuous amount of money. EffectsLab Pro and CompositeLab Pro, in my opinion, are the ideal products for the amatuer filmmaker. VisionLab Studio is, as Hybrid-Halo said, geared towards the professional or high-budget filmmakers.

I believe that the price for VisionLab Studio is completely fair in every way. When you pay that 500 USD for it, that should be all that you have to put towards as far as visual effects:

-Commerical license
-Both EffectsLab Pro & CompositeLab Pro combined *INCLUDING* several exra features
-No extra charges for add-ons and such (also applicable for other Lab products)

In the major update that Fxhome provided, the exclusive lightning engine was created, again, without any extra charge. Whatever Fxhome has in store for us, I believe VisionLab Studio will be very worthwhile.
Posted: Mon, 4th Feb 2008, 11:50pm

Post 11 of 37

JUIDAR

Force: 1525 | Joined: 10th Feb 2006 | Posts: 502

VisionLab User Windows User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Thank you all and I appreciate all the feedback.

Guess this means I'll be a VisionLab owner soon. wink

Thanks again!
Posted: Tue, 5th Feb 2008, 7:42am

Post 12 of 37

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Rating: +1

See the commercial license thing this way:

For a company to survive, it needs to advertise and get buyers. Every company has to. Advertising is expensive and costs money. Money which usually has to be earned back by making the price for the actual product, the software, higher.
FXhome decided to keep their prices as low as possible, so basically didn't add those advertisement costs into their product, but simply created a license in which FXhome has to be credited - which is advertisement.
So a commercial license, in which this advertisement is missing because FXhome doesn't have to be credited, the additional add is missing, hence needs to be compensated with a higher price.

Add a couple of exclusive filters and features plus a combine userinterface, and you'll find VisionLab to worth every single penny.
Posted: Tue, 5th Feb 2008, 9:22am

Post 13 of 37

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Excellent explanation of the credit system there, Sollthar!

jabooza wrote:

To be honest, I don't really get the whole commercial license thing, you pay money to buy the software, if you own the software shouldn't you own the right not to advertise for the company in all of your videos?
You don't actually own software when you purchase it: you are purchasing a license to use the software, not the software itself.

In addition to the lightning engine, the commercial license, the extra grading filters and the ability to use any filter on any object, I'd actually say that the MAIN benefit of VisionLab is simply having everything in one interface.

This is particularly vital for a professional production, or one on a tight schedule. If you're working on complex shots that need both CompositeLab and EffectsLab, rendering and swapping files from one to the other can be very time consuming. Being able to do it all in VisionLab speeds things up massively - so much so that, on a professional production, the added cost of VisionLab will probably pay for itself in time saved in the long run.
Posted: Wed, 5th Mar 2008, 7:16pm

Post 14 of 37

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Tarn wrote:

Excellent explanation of the credit system there, Sollthar!

jabooza wrote:

To be honest, I don't really get the whole commercial license thing, you pay money to buy the software, if you own the software shouldn't you own the right not to advertise for the company in all of your videos?
You don't actually own software when you purchase it: you are purchasing a license to use the software, not the software itself.
True that. I never really thought of it that way. In that case I don't really 'own' any of my DVD's either. I just purchased the means and right to view them.
Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2008, 1:09am

Post 15 of 37

Axeman

Force: 17995 | Joined: 20th Jan 2002 | Posts: 6124

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

SuperUser

Actually, you own the dvd's, you just don't own the movies contained on them. The rights to control what can be done with those movies is still belongs to the copyright holder.
Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2008, 1:40pm

Post 16 of 37

Link123456

Force: 1099 | Joined: 20th Dec 2006 | Posts: 237

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Why do you have to credit fxhome in every movie you make?

after all, you've payed the money to fxhome for the software, so surely you wouldn't expect a credit mvoie?

althoughM i have to say, a credit movie at the start of the film does give it a professional touch.
Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2008, 1:44pm

Post 17 of 37

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User Windows User

SuperUser

No, you've paid FXhome a license to use their software - you haven't paid for the software itself. You have to credit FXhome firstly because you've already agreed to it in the Terms & Conditions that you blithely clicked "Ok" to, without reading.

Secondly you do so because FXhome's software is kept cheap because by requiring you to advertise their software through your movies, they don't have to fork out money for as much marketing and advertising themselves. A product's price is carefully designed to reflect the investments made by the company themselves. Since FXhome do comparatively little marketing, thanks to the Credit Movies, the price of the software is kept low for everyone.
Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2008, 2:11pm

Post 18 of 37

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Don't forget that if you don't want to credit us (or can't, for whatever reason) then you can get a full commercial license (ie, no credit required) with VisionLab Studio.
Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2008, 2:49pm

Post 19 of 37

Link123456

Force: 1099 | Joined: 20th Dec 2006 | Posts: 237

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Xcession wrote:

the Terms & Conditions that you blithely clicked "Ok" to, without reading.
In all honesty, who does read terms and conditions? wink
Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2008, 5:19pm

Post 20 of 37

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Link123456 wrote:

Xcession wrote:

the Terms & Conditions that you blithely clicked "Ok" to, without reading.
In all honesty, who does read terms and conditions? wink
I read them for VLab. Since I spendt a larger amount (well for me) of money that day, I wanted to make sure that I didn't do anything to get it taken away.

But of course I admit to not reading thoose things sometimes.
Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2008, 8:24am

Post 21 of 37

Dead Iris

Force: 1329 | Joined: 24th Jul 2007 | Posts: 199

VisionLab User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

On a smaller note, having VisionLab may increase the speed of your workflow compared to duo pro. For some people this could actually be a bigger note, but yeah.

t's also loads easier to combine effects with VLab.

Unfortunately I've been unable to use my full version. sad I have to get my new computer, then I have to wait even longer to afford a new camera.

Hopefully soon, I'll be back to filmmaking though. I'm rather attached to the zombie genre at the moment. I got some neat ideas for it. Me and a friend are going to try some more realistic approaches to them. I still haven't seen a perfected zombie in any film. A World War Z film is on the horizon however. That may change things.

But, I ramble.
Posted: Wed, 19th Mar 2008, 10:23pm

Post 22 of 37

pdrg

Force: 5405 | Joined: 4th Dec 2006 | Posts: 4143

VisionLab User Windows User

Gold Member

Link123456 wrote:

Xcession wrote:

the Terms & Conditions that you blithely clicked "Ok" to, without reading.
In all honesty, who does read terms and conditions? wink
Do you sign contracts without reading them? (If so, I have something for you to sign...)
Posted: Sat, 22nd Mar 2008, 11:05pm

Post 23 of 37

Thrawn

Force: 1995 | Joined: 11th Aug 2006 | Posts: 1962

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

This subject is hurting my head...


wink
Posted: Sun, 23rd Mar 2008, 1:24pm

Post 24 of 37

petet2

Force: 2899 | Joined: 27th Dec 2005 | Posts: 1043

VisionLab User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Don't think of Vision Lab as expensive (which it isn't for what you get) think of Comp Lab and FX Lab as cheap because FX Home sell them for home use only.

Licence restrictions are nothing new - if you buy a student licence for Adobe products such as Indesign or Dreamweaver you get them for a fraction of the full price (£250 instead of £2000 for example) but you can't use them for commercial work.
Posted: Mon, 28th Apr 2008, 11:36pm

Post 25 of 37

FXhomer26682

Force: 810 | Joined: 22nd Jul 2007 | Posts: 11

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User

Gold Member

Not to be rude, I love Fxhome products But I think they are starting to ignore mac users. NO universal Binary yet and they still want us to credit them and pay almost 300 dollars for an upgrade when you already own both apps. I paid 150 for both apps. That 300 bucks. If i pay another 250 on top of that for the upgrade than that OVER 500 dollars. More than it would cost to buy the product from scratch. I know you guys say Fxhome products are cheap, and they are. But I see other programs only twice as expensive but way more than doubly powerful. Final Cut Studio 2 with motion 3, LiveType, Color, FCP, SoundTrack, Compressor, DVD studio pro etc. Can all be had for under 1200 dollars. Thats merely only 2 visionlab boxes. And they dont make me give credit to them either. When Motion was a stand alone 500 dollar product they never made us credit them or buy a commercial lisnce. With an academic discount you can get After Effects cheaper than visionlab. Now im not saying Fxhome is bad. But To be making us credit them saying its because there prices are so low is bull. They havent even given us a UB and its been over a year. Still saying the same thing. "its not there fault". Why do i have to pay 300 dollars for the upgrade when I own both, Why do I have to give them credit in every movie when i pay 500 + dollars? That isnt cheap no matter what you get. Its just a free way of them wiggling free advertisements out of paying customers. Im sure this post will be removed but im so disgusted with the mac situation at fxhome it makes me sick. I have waited patently. Why do us mac users have to pay just as much as windows users? They get top performance, we are stuck with rosetta. And yet they still claim its worth it and make us advertise for them. We are not getting the performance the windows users are yet we are charged the same. PPC IS DEAD. more than half of the people i know have switched to intel macs. Its just not worth 500 dollars to run in rosetta when i can save for another 3 months and get FCS2 for a few more hundred bucks. You say visionlab isnt expensive for what you get? An app that runs in rosetta? Now Final Cut Studio 3 isnt expensive for what you get. Only double the price but more than triple the content.
Posted: Mon, 28th Apr 2008, 11:39pm

Post 26 of 37

FXhomer26682

Force: 810 | Joined: 22nd Jul 2007 | Posts: 11

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User

Gold Member

"why do I have to give them credit when I pay 500+ dollars"

I meant 300+. Which is what i gave for both apps.
Posted: Mon, 28th Apr 2008, 11:41pm

Post 27 of 37

petet2

Force: 2899 | Joined: 27th Dec 2005 | Posts: 1043

VisionLab User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

FXhomer26682 wrote:

With an academic discount you can get After Effects cheaper than visionlab.
But with an academic licence you can't use it for commercial projects.
Posted: Mon, 28th Apr 2008, 11:46pm

Post 28 of 37

FXhomer26682

Force: 810 | Joined: 22nd Jul 2007 | Posts: 11

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User

Gold Member

"No, you've paid FXhome a license to use their software - you haven't paid for the software itself. "

Well, that funny. All the other software I have dont say that. Even MS paint dont make me give them credit for everything i do after I pay for the apps. I gave 300 dollars for both apps and I believe that entitles me to NOT give out free advertising. We will have to agree to disagree. But ask yourself this. what if every piece of creative software was like that? It bull. And it a way to make people upgrade or advertise for them. They dont have to do that. they do it because they can and want to. Period. This is one of the only places that does this and Apps like final cut studio are cheap and well worth the money for what you get. There is no excuses for fxhome to make us do this. They dont have to but they do anyway. Its not like they NEED it. Trust me, They do ok for themselves.
Posted: Mon, 28th Apr 2008, 11:56pm

Post 29 of 37

FXhomer26682

Force: 810 | Joined: 22nd Jul 2007 | Posts: 11

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User

Gold Member

"But with adobe acadimc discount you cant do commercial work"

Thats the point. I DONT DO commercial work at all. I do it for a side thing. I never do commercial work for money so it wouldn't matter. If you dont do commercial work for money, and i bet a lot dont, then what? It dont matter then. Bottom line, If you have both apps it shouldn't cost you more in the long run to upgrade than to just buy it all over again.
Posted: Tue, 29th Apr 2008, 12:02am

Post 30 of 37

Plainly

Force: 1537 | Joined: 27th Dec 2006 | Posts: 767

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

FXhomer26682 wrote:

PPC IS DEAD.
The PC's dead, eh? I don't know, mine seems to be running just fine.

Other than that, I'll have to disagree with you about the license thing. I think FXhome made a great decision: basically, you either get two great programs, for a very good price, but that are really designed for home usage, or you get this great all-in-one application - for which you do pay more - but you don't have to credit them.

You say that FXhome is finding a way to freely advertise themselves, but really, it's not that at all: VisionLab users are actually paying FXhome not to advertise their company.
Posted: Tue, 29th Apr 2008, 1:53am

Post 31 of 37

FreshMentos

Force: 1667 | Joined: 10th Jun 2006 | Posts: 1141

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Plainly wrote:

FXhomer26682 wrote:

PPC IS DEAD.
The PC's dead, eh? I don't know, mine seems to be running just fine.
PPC=Power PC. The type of processors in Macs before intel.

I can understand why Fxhomer26682 is upset. But may recommend that you email the FXhome team about your issue. Because I doubt any of us Fxhomers will be able to help you with your problem.
Posted: Tue, 29th Apr 2008, 4:02am

Post 32 of 37

Plainly

Force: 1537 | Joined: 27th Dec 2006 | Posts: 767

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

FreshMentos wrote:

PPC=Power PC. The type of processors in Macs before intel.
Ah, sorry, I thought it was just a typo. unsure
Posted: Tue, 29th Apr 2008, 11:23am

Post 33 of 37

Joshua Davies

Force: 25400 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 3029

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

FXhome Team Member

It is impossible to convert the current "Lab" products to Universal Binary due to 3rd party software which isn't going to be converted by the companies who make it.

There is nothing we can do about this... Sorry.

Future new versions (rather than upgrades) of our software would of course support the latest standards of the platforms we choose to release on.

FXhomer26682 wrote:

There is no excuses for fxhome to make us do this. They dont have to but they do anyway. Its not like they NEED it. Trust me, They do ok for themselves.
Please refrain from unsubstantiated and entirely inaccurate comments about FXhome which you make in order to add some validity to the point you are trying to make.

Just adding "Trust me" to the start of a sentence doesn't really cut it.
Posted: Tue, 29th Apr 2008, 12:09pm

Post 34 of 37

malone

Force: 18242 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1477

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User Windows User

FXhome Team Member

As for prices, VisionLab is only $499, and I honestly don't know of any other software that can do everything VisionLab can do for that price.

EffectsLab and CompositeLab can each do about half of what VisionLab does. So really they should be at least $249 each, which would still be a great price.

However, the original goal of our company was to provide software that young people and amateurs could easily afford. So instead of charging $249, we thought long and hard about how we could make it even cheaper. That's why we decided to offer a $100 lower price in return for the credit at the end of the movies (something that a lot of people are happy to do for free anyway).

Now, did we need to do that? No, we could have just charged $249 like most companies would have. Do we get $100 worth of advertising from most people? Not a chance. But we still offer the low price anyway.

So it's a bit upsetting to hear people randomly claim were are ripping them off when we are trying extremely hard to do exactly the opposite.
Posted: Thu, 1st May 2008, 5:11am

Post 35 of 37

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

While we're kind of on the note: If I use AlamDV2, is a credit required where it wasn't beforehand?
Posted: Thu, 1st May 2008, 7:41am

Post 36 of 37

malone

Force: 18242 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1477

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Atom wrote:

If I use AlamDV2, is a credit required where it wasn't beforehand?
The credit requirement was present in all versions of AlamDV2 as well.
Posted: Fri, 2nd May 2008, 1:14am

Post 37 of 37

Plainly

Force: 1537 | Joined: 27th Dec 2006 | Posts: 767

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

What if we use the plugins in VisionLab?