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HD-DVD is dead, long live Blu-ray!

Who did you support?

HD-DVD22%[ 12 ]
Blu-ray38%[ 21 ]
I waited to see who would win40%[ 22 ]

Total Votes : 55

Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 9:29am

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Simon K Jones

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With Toshiba's withdrawal from the format cold war, HD-DVD has finally ended its long, drawn-out death rattle. The troubled high definition format was in trouble the moment FXhome chose Blu-ray, setting a precedent soon followed by the big studios such as Warner Bros.

How do you feel about the end of the format war?

Last edited Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 10:51am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 10:43am

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b4uask30male

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hd dvd is dead,

I didn't know tosh has given up, when did this happen, did they say why?
Last I read they were happy that hd players in europe were out selling loads compared to blue ray!

Glad i waited to see.
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 10:45am

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JackPot

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I didn't know tosh has given up, when did this happen, did they say why?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252172.stm
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 10:48am

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Simon K Jones

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b4uask30male wrote:

I didn't know tosh has given up, when did this happen, did they say why?
Basically because nobody's buying them. smile Check the BBC News link on the main news article I posted.

Last I read they were happy that hd players in europe were out selling loads compared to blue ray!
Yeah, they kept claiming this. The problem, however, is that in all their stats and reports they were refusing to include the PlayStation 3. Given that the big-selling PS3 was spreading blu-ray like wildfire, Toshiba were basically in a state of denial.

Sure, they were selling more stand-alone HD-DVD players than Sony were selling stand-alone blu-ray players. But that's only because Sony were selling boatloads of blu-ray players built into their shiny new console.

The moment Microsoft failed to put HD-DVD playback into the Xbox360, the format was doomed, basically.

Glad i waited to see.
Same here! The entire format war was ridiculous from the start. It represents such absurd corporate greed.

If they'd just agreed on a format to begin with, then everyone would have benefited. Sure, there might not have been a 'big winner', but you also wouldn't have had a 'big loser', with Toshiba and other HD-DVD companies now in rather big trouble.

Really very silly.

Still, at least consumers like ourselves can now make a decent decision about whether to move to the HD format or not.
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 10:59am

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b4uask30male

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I used to work for Rank video, the VHS vs Betamax was important because every VO (Vhs tape without a film recorded) that was produced JVC got half a pence, to put it into perspective JVC created VHS, then left other companies to make the tapes ranging from BASF to TDK and unknown brands.
Half a pence doesn't sound much but when I was at Rank we delt with Europe and just for Jurassic Park alone in the first week we sent out 3 million tapes, so this to JVC was 1.5 million for doing nothing other than creating the vhs tape for just one film.

I'm guessing the same applies for HD DVD and Blue Ray, if it does apply than that explains why they didn't want to share or play nice together.
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 12:00pm

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jmax

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What will become of the studios who agreed to release HD-DVDs? Were they contractually bound to do so, or can they now just make the switch to Blu-Ray and re-release everything they've put out on HD-DVD?
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 12:17pm

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Nutbar

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jmax wrote:

What will become of the studios who agreed to release HD-DVDs? Were they contractually bound to do so, or can they now just make the switch to Blu-Ray and re-release everything they've put out on HD-DVD?
Considering that the contracts were with Toshiba i guess Toshiba have defaulted on the contract so they'll be free to do whatever they want.
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 12:50pm

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Frosty G

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*looks at 360 hd-dvd player and 5 hd-dvds*........damnit.




On the side, I saw POTC playing on blu-ray at Best Buy. It look ridiculiously real. Now do they all look like that or is it just like the high-end hardware and that particular film that looks that good? Because from what I heard, hd-dvd and blu-ray were the same basically.
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 2:14pm

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Nutbar

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Not all will look that good, alot of it depends on the film itself, for example Blade Runner is not as sharp (though it is still better than it was on DVD) as something like pirates is (as you would expect), and the quality it was filmed in.
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 2:16pm

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Jabooza

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Too bad for all those people who bought HD DVD players.
I didn't vote in the poll because I haven't done any of them... I guess you could say I've been waiting but I'm still waiting and I don't know when the wait will be over because, well, I don't own kind of HD TV. sad
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 2:52pm

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Joshua Davies

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The TV is just as important as the disk.

Blu-ray on my HD-ready TV at home (regular) looks nowhere near as good as it does on the HD 1080P TV at work.

You can only see the extra resolution of HD if you have the resolution to display it... HD-ready (typically between 720P and 1080P) looks better than standard definition, 1080P HD looks better still.
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 3:29pm

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Bflat5

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I'm glad I waited. I will still wait until the prices come down to earth a little more. The discs and players are just crazy priced.
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 4:02pm

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pscamm

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Hey,

Did'nt really make a lot of difference to me who won the battle but one seriously important thing on my mind is that blu-ray will allow you to play your existing SD dvd's while upscaling them to a high def screen whereas HD-DVD wont allow it.

Blu-Ray should win hands down just on that score

biggrin

Regards to all
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 4:07pm

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Simon K Jones

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pscamm wrote:

Did'nt really make a lot of difference to me who won the battle but one seriously important thing on my mind is that blu-ray will allow you to play your existing SD dvd's while upscaling them to a high def screen whereas HD-DVD wont allow it.
That's just....entirely wrong, I'm afraid. smile They could both play normal DVDs just fine.
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 7:15pm

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sfbmovieco

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I bow to the superior knowledge of all of those who called my BS. It's still a shame that there even was a format war while DVD's are still being produced in such large numbers. I love my upconverting dvd player with my 200+ dvds on my hdtv. Looks great. I probably won't buy a blu ray player until blu ray discs drop in price a few dollars.
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 8:01pm

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RigomrtsFX

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i have the hd/blue ray player just in case
kind of had feeling that hd would not win ..... the good news for me
they are having a blow out sale here in oregon unopen price 15 ea and used ones are 6.99 up to 9.99 ea at this videogame store have some at 12 ea or 3 for 20 bucks close out
now thats cool news if your here
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 8:50pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Good news for Playstation 3 owners. smile

-Hybrid
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 8:53pm

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Serpent

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I wish Blu-ray inherited the name "HD-DVD." Everyone knows what HD is, everyone knows what DVD is. wtf is bluray?
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 9:50pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Serpent wrote:

I wish Blu-ray inherited the name "HD-DVD." Everyone knows what HD is, everyone knows what DVD is. wtf is bluray?
Isn't it the final boss of Final Metal Gear Solid XVII?
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 10:04pm

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Atom

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Screw waiting, the smartest people knew there was never a contest! smile

And 'Blu-Ray' is fine with me simply because it's much more catchy than 'HD-DVD' ever was, and people seem to remember it better. With HD-DVD I would here people say 'HDTV?' 'HDV?' 'HDVD?' And never get it correct.

What Blu-Ray should now do is keep it's existing name but look into something more "flowingly" like HDVD. (High-Definition Video Disc). No reason to keep that extra 'D' for digital in there. Yay for Sony!

Tarn back in August wrote:

Paramount announced this week that they would be exclusively supporting the HD-DVD format. This means no <i>Transformers</i> on the rival Blu-Ray, among many other big names. With most other studios either supporting both formats or Blu-Ray, it was a surprising decision and one which seems to have rather miffed both Steven Spielberg and Michael Bay, who even threatened to quit <i>Transformers 2</i> in protest (although he has since retracted that, claiming that he just got a bit over-excited).<br><br>What do you guys think?
I bet Michael Bay and Spielberg are both cheering with an "I told you so!" right now. Hopefully if and when I get my Blu-Ray player I'll be able to enjoy Transformers, too.
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 10:30pm

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RodyPolis

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I have one question though, what was the difference between the two?
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 10:31pm

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Garrison

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One crippling blow was this past Friday, WalMart announced that they would carry Blu-Ray exclusively.
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 10:48pm

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Atom

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Target, Wal-Mart, Blockbuster, Warner, Sony, Fox, Panasonic, etc. All Blu-Ray exclusive.

Whether it's the retailers, the machine brand manufacturers, or the distributors: Blu-Ray had a lock no matter what.
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 11:02pm

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Kid

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I think Bluray is a much better name because noobs get completely confused with similar sounding names. There are a billion different things called HD out there alresdy before you start mixing it up with DVD as well. The public is much more able to pick up something new but catchy like Bluray than something that sounds like other format.

Now the question is how well will Bluray do against DVD when it is far cheaper and plenty good enough for most people?
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 11:05pm

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SlothPaladin

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A ton of people over at Netflix are whining about the HD-DVD formate stopped being supported, I'm glad I waited. Now that I have a nice 24" high def monitor in the mail it's time to upgrade my cameras and buy a blue ray burner (which seem to cost about the same as most stand alone blue ray players for some reason)
Posted: Tue, 19th Feb 2008, 11:44pm

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Jabooza

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It's too bad Blu Ray has to be so expensive, for people who still only have an SD TV (like me), after buying a new HD TV I think the last thing they (and me) are gonna want to do is go buy a Blu Ray player, but I guess it has to be done eventually.
BTW, what about computers ever getting Blu Ray support? unsure
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 12:25am

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FreshMentos

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I am glad Blu-Ray won. I can finally buy a Blu-Ray player without worrying my ass off smile. One question though. Anyone know if there is a notable difference between how a Blu-Ray movie looks on a 42in. 1080p (or bigger) television set compared to a 32in. 720p Toshiba set?
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 12:34am

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Jabooza

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Rating: +1

FreshMentos wrote:

Anyone know if there is a notable difference between how a Blu-Ray movie looks on a 42in. 1080p (or bigger) television set compared to a 32in. 720p Toshiba set?
Yes, it looks bigger.
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 12:45am

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Aculag

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Well, this is just one more reason to get a PS3. Next time I have the extra cash, I know what I'm spending it on.
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 1:16am

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Evman

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I think that my tipping point will be whenever the uber-monstrous Lord of the Rings Blu-Ray gift set is announced. I simply won't be able to go without that for too long! razz
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 4:13am

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FreshMentos

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Jabooza wrote:

FreshMentos wrote:

Anyone know if there is a notable difference between how a Blu-Ray movie looks on a 42in. 1080p (or bigger) television set compared to a 32in. 720p Toshiba set?
Yes, it looks bigger.
Oops, Let me rephrase that. I wanted to know if a movie looks just as good in terms of quality on a 32" 720p LCD set compared to a 42" (or larger) 1080p set.
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 4:52am

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Kid

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No it won't look as good, there is way more detail and at larger sizes your eyes can see that detail. But 720p on a 32" tv would look as good as 1080p on a 32" tv at a normal viewing distance.

Bluray drives and software are already available for PC.
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 5:32am

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Hendo

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It seems to me that whereas DVD had benefits to almost all TV owners, Bluray will only benefit owners of large (greater than 32") 1080p TVs.

That is to say, the jump from VHS to DVD was much larger and more beneficial to the majority of viewers than the jump from DVD to Bluray is.

Which leads me to believe that the market for Bluray isn't as big as the manufacturers and retailers want it to be, unless the majority of TV owners upgrade to massive 1080p TVs, or people just buy Bluray because they get told to.

Am I off track in that thinking, or do others agree?

(This isn't about Bluray specifically; if HD DVD was the winner then I'd be saying the same thing about it.)
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 9:05am

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Atom

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Hendo wrote:

It seems to me that whereas DVD had benefits to almost all TV owners, Bluray will only benefit owners of large (greater than 32") 1080p TVs.

That is to say, the jump from VHS to DVD was much larger and more beneficial to the majority of viewers than the jump from DVD to Bluray is.

Which leads me to believe that the market for Bluray isn't as big as the manufacturers and retailers want it to be, unless the majority of TV owners upgrade to massive 1080p TVs, or people just buy Bluray because they get told to.

Am I off track in that thinking, or do others agree?

(This isn't about Bluray specifically; if HD DVD was the winner then I'd be saying the same thing about it.)
I'd be inclined to disagree, because while viewing may essentially be the same for TVs under 32" be it 720p or 1080p, you're still getting 720p, which is a considerable and noticeable difference from standard. (Now having one I can say that with complete certainty.) The difference is definitely and positively there.

The same is true with TV signals. I just upgraded to an HD signal, and even on a 720p TV the difference really is remarkable. Only made more impressive by the fact that sadly HDTVs make SD signals look absolutely horrendous and pixelated and artifacted like no other.
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 9:15am

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Joshua Davies

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If you're 12inches from the screen you can always see the difference even if the screen is only like 20inches but from normal viewing distances on a 32inch you can't see any difference between 720P and 1080P (even if the screen can do full 1080P).

On say a 42+inch screen the difference is obvious.

Below 32inch the difference between 720P and SD becomes smaller as the screen gets smaller. At about 20inches you would be hard pressed to tell the difference at a normal viewing distance, even between SD and 1080P. I can watch SD DVDs on my 32inch HD TV with no problems where they look utterly terrible on our 46inch screen at work.

HD is great on big screens which is what more and more people are buying. 1080P only comes in to its own once you push well past 32inch and on to massive screens.
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 10:31am

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Simon K Jones

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On my 32" HDTV it's difficult to tell the difference between normal DVD and blu-ray. That's presuming you have a good DVD player that is upscaling through HDMI in a decent manner, of course.

If you sit right in front of the TV then, sure, there's a massive difference. But sitting on the sofa at a 'normal' viewing distance there isn't a massively noticeable difference.

Comparing on a 42" is pretty noticeable, though, as schwar says.

The other thing worth mentioning is that it often depends entirely on the film itself. If you compare a Pixar movie, the difference is going to be extremely noticeable. Watching Sunshine it was very clear, too, given the fine detail in the effects shots and the clarity of the film - I imagine the Star Wars prequels etc would be the same.

Watching older films, the difference is far less distinct due to the grainier film.
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 5:00pm

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Multiwagon

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http://i26.tinypic.com/21jc7pf.gif
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 5:11pm

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Pooky

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Tarn wrote:

On my 32" HDTV it's difficult to tell the difference between normal DVD and blu-ray. That's presuming you have a good DVD player that is upscaling through HDMI in a decent manner, of course.

If you sit right in front of the TV then, sure, there's a massive difference. But sitting on the sofa at a 'normal' viewing distance there isn't a massively noticeable difference.

Comparing on a 42" is pretty noticeable, though, as schwar says.

The other thing worth mentioning is that it often depends entirely on the film itself. If you compare a Pixar movie, the difference is going to be extremely noticeable. Watching Sunshine it was very clear, too, given the fine detail in the effects shots and the clarity of the film - I imagine the Star Wars prequels etc would be the same.

Watching older films, the difference is far less distinct due to the grainier film.
I've found that watching Space Odyssey in HD on a 92in projected screen produced MASSIVELY better quality than the DVD. You can actually see the film grain now which is kind of freaky, and for a 40 year old movie it's eerily sharp. If you watch regular TV though, movies generally aren't very sharp... I have Saving Private Ryan and Gladiator recorded and they do look better than the DVDs, but only marginally so.

Of course, on such a big screen it's obvious you'd see a difference razz To be honest though, I think anyone with a basement or a relatively dark room should consider a projector over a TV, seeing as my 720p projector only set me back about 1000$ yet is currently considered the best on the market (Epson HC-720). Value is far greater than a TV.
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 8:06pm

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Evman

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I watched Spider-man 3 recently on Blu-Ray (with the sole objective to laugh at it constantly) and didn't notice any difference btw that and regular DVD when viewed on a roughly 35-40 inch tube TV. I'd say for normal viewers the upgrade is barely noticeable at all. And if you try to say that the increased quality is anywhere near as good as VHS to DVD I simply cannot agree with you.

Sure, it's beautiful, but if you don't have an HDTV theres really no point. When everyone has an HDTV, I'm sure Blu-Ray will take off more rapidly. Of course Blu-Ray could also be an amazing incentive to go HD in the first place.

In short I think our view is biased b/c we all know what's going on in this format war (being nerds! razz). I've told several people now that Blu-Ray won the war and have received blank stares followed by "what's Blu-Ray and what did it win?" razz
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 8:40pm

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Pooky

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Evman wrote:

I watched Spider-man 3 recently on Blu-Ray (with the sole objective to laugh at it constantly) and didn't notice any difference btw that and regular DVD when viewed on a roughly 35-40 inch tube TV.
I'd just like to point out that that is very obvious since the TV isn't in HD. The point of HD is that it has more lines than a normal TV... so obviously, whatever is played back on that TV of yours will never be HD, since it's limited by the TV's resolution.

As I said, to truely see what the big deal is, find someone with a 42in or bigger HD screen, and switch between HD and SD. The difference then is quite impressive in my opinion.
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 8:48pm

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Evman

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Yeah I know, I have a 51 inch HDTV. I was watching this at someone elses house. You missed my point obviously - people who don't have HDTV's won't see the difference. Whereas it didn't take a brand new TV to see the quality upgrade from VHS to DVD.

I'm not talking about you or me here, I'm talking about John Q. Person who doesn't have nor care about HD.
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 8:51pm

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Kid

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The thing is, do you notice the difference between watching something at the cinema and on your home tv? Well basically no. Filmmakers make films so that you can see the main action.

But when you look at something like starwars with lots of cool little things going on in the background, you lose out on that with your tv. HD gives it back.

And as HD becomes more popular there are ways that filmakers can use it differently that wouldn't be possible with the amount of detail a regular tv uses. They can show more than one thing at once or use something other than the camera's viewpoint alone to draw our attention to things. It will allow for a lot more creativity.
Posted: Wed, 20th Feb 2008, 8:57pm

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Evman

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Kid wrote:

It will allow for a lot more creativity.
Yeah, which is why I hope Blu-Ray makes everyone go HD, although, as I said, I think it'll take a bit as the superficial difference to "normies" is very slight and they won't see the point in dropping a lot of money on something that provides little extra quality on a normal TV. Then they'd have to go out and buy the HDTV itself, AND an HDTV subscription to get TV in HD. The total package from complete SD to everything HD is expensive, and probably not worth the money for most normal people until the price comes WAY down for all of those items.
Posted: Thu, 21st Feb 2008, 3:12pm

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Mellifluous

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Good call for the guys who predicted Bluray would win, I thought HD-DVD would win it, I believe the menu system was better and faster. But yeah, I guess not bundling HD-DVD with the Xbox was stupid. They would have lost money, but Sony lost money on the PS3,

Whether people adopt Bluray any more than they already have will depend on the kind of tactics Sony adopted to win this format war.

That means to make people buy Bluray they probably have to phase out DVDs and DVD players. That doesn't mean everyone will have sufficient size TVs to enjoy the advantages of HD, but it will ensure people buy their product.
Posted: Fri, 22nd Feb 2008, 8:41pm

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Rockstudios

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I don't see the big deal. Who cares if it is in HD? It must be because I never saw it. Is it all that great? Is it worth extra money? Just keep normal DVD and save. [but, like I said, I never saw anything in HD, so I don't know what it looks like]
Posted: Fri, 22nd Feb 2008, 10:07pm

Post 46 of 46

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Rockstudios wrote:

I don't see the big deal. Who cares if it is in HD? It must be because I never saw it. Is it all that great? Is it worth extra money? Just keep normal DVD and save. [but, like I said, I never saw anything in HD, so I don't know what it looks like]
I can tell you that watching a Blu-Ray film looks and sounds much better than its DVD counterpart. I hadn't actually seen a proper movie on Blu-ray until last fall when I went to the Sony Metreon and watched the begining chase scene of Casino Royal on a 60" display. It was amazing. The only obvious problem to truly enjoy the "Blu-Ray experience" is that you need to invest in a proper display and sound system.

I'd say that Blu-ray movies (on a proper setup) captures the feel of a movie theater without the annoying crowd.