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Best Film Editing Software...

Posted: Wed, 27th Feb 2008, 11:39pm

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VFX maniac

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Could u plz. tell me which one is the better film editing software? Final Cut PRO or Adobe Premiere?
Posted: Wed, 27th Feb 2008, 11:54pm

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rogolo

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I am sorry to say there is no answer. It is entirely a matter of personal preference - neither is inherently "better". And since FXhome is split between Vegas/Final Cut/Premiere/Avid users, this thread will likely raise more questions than it answers for you.

Vegas and Premiere have downloadable demos, and I'm sure you could go to the Apple Store and try Final Cut for yourself. Have at it.

Last edited Wed, 16th Mar 2011, 1:25pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 12:14am

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pdrg

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The above post sums it up well, whichever you get on best with, can afford, runs on your system will do you well at this level.

But your original question was a minor oxymoron...film editing software - you edit video/tape with software, film editing is still Steenbecks and cutting/joining celluloid smile
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 12:22am

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KingPumkin

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Most Deff! Final Cut Pro I mean I love it, my dad bought all the CS3 things from adobe and I still say Final Cut
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 12:47am

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FXhomer46784

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I haven't used Premiere so I don't know if it is better than Final Cut or not, but Sony Vegas is definitely better than Final Cut is so I'd throw Final Cut out of the choices. In general, I find Windows to be much more suited to video editing than MacOS.
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 1:28am

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Tuffy

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Hah,

really funny. "Fanboy-War at FXhome" - I could read it all night long smile

I'm using Premiere since zero hour. I never tried Vegas and I have a PC. But I don't say that it "smashs everything else", because I don't know.
But I have to tell you what I know:

FXhome beats 'em all wink

Regards,
Lucas
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 1:42am

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Serpent

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FXhomer46784 wrote:

but Sony Vegas is definitely better than Final Cut is so I'd throw Final Cut out of the choices.
That simply isn't true. You may prefer Vegas, but it isn't "definitely better." Professionals in the industry use Final Cut, it's critically acclaimed software, and many prefer it to Vegas. You make it sound like Vegas literally has an overwhelming amount of superior features, and it simply doesn't. So at this point, I'm going to say: refer back to the first response in this thread--it's all about preference and OS.

Most people on a Mac go with Final Cut Studio, look into the benefits and you'll see why. Premiere is still an option, but I've found it less stable, find the workflow less smooth, just isn't for me. I'd honestly buy FCE over Premiere CS3.
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 2:09am

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Atom

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Let's put it this way: No editor is supremely better than another. Each have their downfall.

But as far as the "pro" lines go, (FCP, Vegas, Premiere, and Avid) to FXHomer320433250334567654345678's credit: Vegas is arguably the easiest and possibly fastest to use from the get-go. As you progress as an editor in each program, this changes exponentially. So that's not saying much really, but that's about as far as you can go with a pro/con that can't be canceled-out by another NLE.
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 2:37am

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EvilDonut

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no kidding huh.

google.com

the answer depends on what the person you're asking, is using.

a killer vegas user > a mediocre premiere user > beginner final cut user.

The answer: They're all good. The real answer is what you want, what you can afford, what o/s you run, etc.

d
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 6:10am

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FXhomer46784

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Serpent wrote:

Professionals in the industry use Final Cut, it's critically acclaimed software, and many prefer it to Vegas.
True, however, a lot of professionals in the industry use Vegas and prefer it to Final Cut. Although Final Cut is considered "industry standard", it does go both ways.

Serpent wrote:

You make it sound like Vegas literally has an overwhelming amount of superior features, and it simply doesn't.
I'm sorry if anyone took my earlier post to mean this. I never meant to claim that Vegas has any more features than Final Cut. I just said it was "better" (overall).

Serpent wrote:

Most people on a Mac go with Final Cut Studio, look into the benefits and you'll see why.
Yes, if I had a Mac, I would certainly buy Final Cut as mentioned in the first post. However, I don't have a Mac because I feel PC's are more suited to video editing.



Bottom line: I've used Vegas, Final Cut and AVID (among others) and have had fewer problems with Vegas than the others despite the fact I use it more often. I guess I would call Vegas "more reliable".
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 6:47am

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NickF

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It doesn't really matter which one you use, all that matters is how well you can use it.
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 11:31am

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Tuffy

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Atom wrote:

Vegas is arguably the easiest and possibly fastest to use from the get-go.
Isn't it the cheapest, too?

Regards,
Lucas

//
I think if we talk about industry, we should say the the standard there is Avid...?
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 12:43pm

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Serpent

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FXhomer46784 wrote:


I'm sorry if anyone took my earlier post to mean this. I never meant to claim that Vegas has any more features than Final Cut. I just said it was "better" (overall).
Re-read your post. You thinking it's better overall is an opinion, and you made it sound like fact (especially in your first post. You say "Vegas is definitely better." You could say Vegas is definitely better than Windows Movie Maker, and iMovie because it has more features and is more efficient. That is factual. However Final Cut Pro is in the same league as Vegas. The fact that you admit professionals do indeed sometimes (most of the time) prefer Final Cut to Vegas really just makes your first post null.
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 1:00pm

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KingPumkin

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FXhomer46784 wrote:

I haven't used Premiere so I don't know if it is better than Final Cut or not, but Sony Vegas is definitely better than Final Cut is so I'd throw Final Cut out of the choices. In general, I find Windows to be much more suited to video editing than MacOS.
Windows is only ok im still feeling Macs, but Final Cut is some top quality cheese dude, vegas I would only TRY if I used my pc.
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 5:46pm

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EvilDonut

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FCP matured a lot faster than the other products - which is why many 'professionals' migrated real quickly to take advantage of it's exciting new features.

Avid, Vegas, Premiere, etc. slowly matured - and latest versions pack some serious power.

Thus what 'the professionals use' changes everyday. All of them are almost equal now.

But I must admit - I haven't seen Vegas used outside a Sony-based environment.

NAB - Vegas Jan. It behoves you to go to if you have the ability.

d
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 8:17pm

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SilverDragon7

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If I was a professional, I would use Vegas.
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 9:22pm

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FXhomer46784

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Serpent:
Yes, it is only my opinion that Vegas is better and not a "fact". FCP and Vegas are in the same league and I don't think that anyone could factually say that one or the other is better. I didn't intend to make a statement doing so (hence all the "I", "i would" statements in my first post) and apologize if you or anyone else feels I did. unsure I am glad you clarified my point and have edited the post to clarify.

Also, you can't prove that most professionals prefer FCP, only that they use it most of the time. Today, FCP has many close competitors that many professionals may prefer, but stick with FCP for tradition, so they don't need to learn a new system, etc. Vegas, Premiere, FCP, and AVID obviously are all professionally capable programs, and there are many professionals using all of these.
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 9:46pm

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SketchWork

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Our pro studio uses Avid workstations as it is compatable with mainline studios so transferring between studios is quick and easy.
Posted: Thu, 28th Feb 2008, 11:23pm

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pdrg

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My 2p - Avid, if you learn the downright funky interface (you can use it every day for a year and still find new useful features), you can use ANY avid thereafter - including the hardcore studio editions. I've not tried the new Avid 'Liquid' (consumer) range, but would suggest a minimum of Avid XpressPro if this is to be your career. If, for instance you shoot on 35mm one day and need to keep the film framenumber/sprocket timecode alongside NTSC dropframe and PAL, or assemble an edit straight from a marked script, or gang 4 tapes to recreate a live (TV studio style) edit. All features that'll be totally useless to an amateur though.

I love my Avid, but I work in the business and so it's worth it to me. If it's home movies you're after, it isn't for you.
Posted: Fri, 29th Feb 2008, 1:06am

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EvilDonut

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Ditto on Avid, only because Avid delivers total end-to-end hw/sw combos. Not just editing. Which is needed in today's resource-intensive HD world.

Avid is like a Ferrari, so the learning curve is a bit more than other products.

d
Posted: Fri, 29th Feb 2008, 6:35am

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Atom

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I am a professional and I use Vegas. And I'm damn good at it, too. How's that? smile
Posted: Fri, 29th Feb 2008, 8:26am

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pdrg

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Atom wrote:

I am a professional and I use Vegas. And I'm damn good at it, too. How's that? smile
Atom, my excitable friend, professional is rather taken to mean not a student, but someone for whom it is their profession!
Posted: Fri, 29th Feb 2008, 8:30am

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Atom

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pdrg wrote:

Atom wrote:

I am a professional and I use Vegas. And I'm damn good at it, too. How's that? smile
Atom, my excitable friend, professional is rather taken to mean not a student, but someone for whom it is their profession!
Missed the sarcasmisticness there, did you? smile
Posted: Fri, 29th Feb 2008, 8:56am

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pdrg

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Atom wrote:


Missed the sarcasmisticness there, did you? smile
Yeh, early, PDA, need tea, must have tea...
|-)
Posted: Fri, 29th Feb 2008, 1:18pm

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RodgerDodger

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pdrg wrote:

Atom wrote:

I am a professional and I use Vegas. And I'm damn good at it, too. How's that? smile
Atom, my excitable friend, professional is rather taken to mean not a student, but someone for whom it is their profession!
Well, I'm a bona-fide professional and I use Vegas! I use to use
Adobe Premiere before I bought Vegas, AcidPro and Soundforge. I love the way that I can instantly see effects in real-time on my monitor, and being able to change the quality of the audio clips from the Vegas timeline in Soundforge makes audio sweetening that much easier. I'm sure you can do that in Premiere now, but it seems to me that the workflow and layout of the Vegas program is much more suited for the business of video editing than Premiere.
www.bigbytevideo.us
Posted: Fri, 29th Feb 2008, 4:46pm

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JUIDAR

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I have been a loooooooooooong time Premiere user and I will say this that I have had and still do tend to have issues with Premiere when it comes to compatibility and sound as well.

I use Pro 2.0 and I believe there is now a version above this but I too have been debating about swithing to another NLE.

With Premiere basically I have always just found tricks around the problems that it has had but if there are trial runs for Vegas and Final Cut Pro then I think I'll give them a whirl.

I'm just comfortable with Premiere cause I know where everything thing is. smile
Posted: Fri, 29th Feb 2008, 6:18pm

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EvilDonut

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lol.

I don't know of any executive who's been fired for making Avid, the platform for their firm's post-production of $20-$30 million projects.

If you want to do your own little projects. Use whatever. Look at your budget, and pick an editor/effects program accordingly. Vegas is good for it's price range.

If you want to apply for jobs, and make money - usually the answer will be made for you before you step through the door. Kinda like learning video game programming. You have no choice but to master the software the shops use if you want any chance of getting a job.

d
Posted: Fri, 29th Feb 2008, 8:01pm

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Bryan M Block

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This topic has been covered to death- and the answers are still the same. The bottom line is that you can get "professional" results from AVID, Premiere, FCP, and Vegas. But there are some areas where each package is really going to out-shine the others, or areas where the others just cannot compete at all. AVID has THE most comprehensive toolset available- and if you want all of it- it comes at an incredibly high price- tens of thousands of dollars- but if you are interfacing with Hollywood- you'll probably need to work with AVID. Beyond that FCP has the next biggest group of adnerents with GOOD REASON- and it is constantly upgrading it's toolset to compete with AVID head to head. Below that you have Premiere and Vegas in pretty much a dead heat (IMO)

I haven't used Premiere since Version 6.0, but I edit on AVID and Vegas professionally. Where Vegas shines is total ease of use, almost anybody can "get it" right away. It also kicks a$$ in the audio department and ease of use extends to things like- fewer keystrokes to accomplish things, easy to understand visuals on the timeline etc... and you can throw almost anythng on the same timeline together and they co-exist peacefully. Where it falls down is in certain things like. Oh, you can't edit in DVCPro50 format- now that may not concern many of you here, but it is a widely used broadcast acquisition format- which limits Vegas as a tool in some post houses. Vegas's title tool is also not so great and could use improvement (the new tool in 8 is better..)and there are always things I wish it did better...

Premeiere in the new CS3 really tempts me though- I like integrated packages, and that's where Premiere could really shine. SOny has done well integrating their products as well, but with Adobe having FLASH, Photoshop, After Effects, etc... they really have an advantage IMO.

The truth is that where most of these programs start to diverge, is beyond what many people here are likely to encounter- so don't worry so much about it. If you do tons of AE work, well, Premiere is probably your animal, also if you shoot in DVCPro50 (or P2 workflow)- that eliminates Vegas pretty much right there as the "best" solution for YOU. If you like ease of use and great audio capabilities- Vegas works great! Workflow in Vegas is VERY fast and intuitive. If you are on a Mac- you'll probably want to just go with FCP- it can pretty much do it all and it's only going to get better. If you are going to make a real career out of it- just start on AVID, what you learn there will carry over to bigger AVID's.
Posted: Fri, 29th Feb 2008, 9:57pm

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EvilDonut

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well said.

here, hollywood films and their stories on using an Avid "Solution".

http://www.avid.com/showcase/

Unless you have $200,000 and wanna compete with Hollywood films from your comfy bedroom - pick a software package that meets 'your needs', not what 'pros' need.

d
Posted: Sat, 1st Mar 2008, 6:44am

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FreshMentos

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DVStudio wrote:

Adobe Premier. Don't use Apple ANYTHING!!!!!! I mean it!
I'm curios DVstudio. Have you even read the forum rules? If you think that Adobe premier is the best editor out there, at least state some reasons why. Also, have you even used Final Cut Pro or Final Cut Express? I bet you probably just used iMovie and hated it. I don't blame you! But to make a statement like that is very immature.
Posted: Sat, 1st Mar 2008, 7:45am

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NickF

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IMO, the editing software you choose depends on the operating system that you have.
If I was on a Windows machine, I would probably (want to) get Premiere. I'm on a Mac so I want to get FCE.


DVStudio wrote:

Adobe Premier. Don't use Apple ANYTHING!!!!!! I mean it!
... Nightcast was edited in Final Cut Express. No Country for Old Men was edited in Final Cut Pro.
Posted: Sat, 1st Mar 2008, 10:59am

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SketchWork

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Digerati Media wrote:

... Nightcast was edited in Final Cut Express. No Country for Old Men was edited in Final Cut Pro.
Likewise, many theatrical independent features and are created in Avid Xpress Pro. On the otherhand, Spiderman 3, Bourne Ultimatum and I am Legend were done in Avid Media Composer with Adrenalin to name just a few.
Posted: Sat, 1st Mar 2008, 3:49pm

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Tim L

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Here are a few other questions that mesh with this thread -- "Which is best?"

- Ford, Chevy, or Chrysler

- Scrambled, over-easy, or poached

- Porsche or Ferrari

- Blonde, brunette, or red-head

- Rare, Medium, Medium-Well, or Well-done

- Tarn, Malone, Schwar, or JackPot

What might be more useful in threads like these is to point out what editing programs to avoid (from experience), and why. On various Sony forums, over the years, I have seen numerous "converts" to Vegas who came running and screaming from various Pinnacle Studio programs, with tons of complaints about instability and nearly constant crashes. (This is at the amateur/home-user level.)

By the way, Bryan, pdrg, EvilDonut, and Sketchwork, and others -- it's always nice to read your real industry insider points of view. Thanks for sharing your experience here.

Tim L
Posted: Sat, 1st Mar 2008, 4:02pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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The thing that amuses me the most with this thread in-particular is this;

Editing is hardly rocket science in regard to what happens within the application. You drag pieces of video around and change their order. So how big a impact can the software really have?

A good editor will be a good editor regardless of software. A sense of timing, pace along with an eye for composition and movement are more valuable than any application an editor could possibly use. So buy some books on those instead of wasting your time being picky over an app.

Where I work Avid is the standard offline editor, with AutoDesk Smoke being used for the online edit - though this is hardly relevant to the home user, even more so if you're not looking to go into the industry at the moment. I'd used Premiere my whole life and was able to edit with Avid pretty much as soon as I sat down with it.

-Hybrid.
Posted: Sat, 1st Mar 2008, 4:36pm

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Bryan M Block

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:

The thing that amuses me the most with this thread in-particular is this;

Editing is hardly rocket science in regard to what happens within the application. You drag pieces of video around and change their order. So how big a impact can the software really have?

A good editor will be a good editor regardless of software. A sense of timing, pace along with an eye for composition and movement are more valuable than any application an editor could possibly use. So buy some books on those instead of wasting your time being picky over an app.

Where I work Avid is the standard offline editor, with AutoDesk Smoke being used for the online edit - though this is hardly relevant to the home user, even more so if you're not looking to go into the industry at the moment. I'd used Premiere my whole life and was able to edit with Avid pretty much as soon as I sat down with it.

-Hybrid.
Yes- I agree to an extent, but the edit isn't really just about cutting (although that's the main function and YES, an editor's main purpose is the pacing and composition- cutting shots against each other- etc...) Many of us rely upon our NLE for audio work, compositing, titling, and import/export functions with various types of media in any given project- so the software does need to have a comprehensive set of features that it makes sense to explore when selecting an NLE.

.02
B
Posted: Wed, 5th Mar 2008, 1:45pm

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Staff Only

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DVStudio wrote:

Adobe Premier. Don't use Apple ANYTHING!!!!!! I mean it!
I finally get to read one of your legendary posts, DVStudio.

Your reputation preceeds you, and I can now see, the rumours were in fact correct.

As for the dicussion: I'm going over to Final Cut. I don't know much about the others, I just wan't to learn Final Cut and I like the look of it.

On another note I want to know:

The extra software that comes in the Final Cut Studio 2 package: Colour, Motion 3, Soundtrack Pro 2 and DVD Studio Pro 4, are they good at what they are for?
Posted: Wed, 5th Mar 2008, 7:34pm

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pdrg

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Sphyre wrote:

As for the dicussion: I'm going over to Final Cut. I don't know much about the others, I just wan't to learn Final Cut and I like the look of it.
As good a reason as any smile
The extra software that comes in the Final Cut Studio 2 package: Colour, Motion 3, Soundtrack Pro 2 and DVD Studio Pro 4, are they good at what they are for?
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/finalcutpro/tools.html (right hand side of page)
Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2008, 5:09pm

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Staff Only

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Thanks for the link. I've been there before. What I meant was: How does the FCPS2 software compare to other applications that can do the same thing.

VLab vs. Colour vs. AE CS3 for colourg grading for example.
Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2008, 5:27pm

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pdrg

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My mistake, I misunderstood.

I can't answer, I haven't used all the versions of everything (in fact I doubt many people have) so can't give an honest review.

If you're getting final cut, why not see if you get on with the packages (although I personally feel no one company does every product as well as each other, so Avid give away DVDIt from Sonic, Sorenson Squeeze, SmartSound, etc instead of cobbling their own branded stuff together). If you find them a bit lame, try demo versions of alternatives, find one that does what you want smile
Posted: Thu, 6th Mar 2008, 6:34pm

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Staff Only

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Thanks for the tip biggrin
Posted: Sat, 8th Mar 2008, 6:17am

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deltadirector38

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Seriously, DVStudio, at the risk of sounding like everyone you've had a run-in with over here, HAVE YOU READ THE FORUM RULES? And if so, why is it that you can't seem to comprehend them? Sorry to get off topic, but I needed to vent.
Posted: Fri, 14th Mar 2008, 3:48am

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FXhomer13183

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I used to have a PC that I had newly built. But I traded it in for a PowerBook G4. It looks like I may get Final Cut Pro. But for right now, I'm using iMovie, just to get by. Will that do for now?
Posted: Fri, 14th Mar 2008, 4:26am

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Serpent

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FXhomer13183 wrote:

I used to have a PC that I had newly built. But I traded it in for a PowerBook G4. It looks like I may get Final Cut Pro. But for right now, I'm using iMovie, just to get by. Will that do for now?
iMovie is fantastic started software. It has all the basic things you need to do for cutting your DV footage. It isn't as efficient as more complex editors (multitrack is a must in the future, which FCP obviously has), but it's great to start with. Also, ignore any iMovie plugins, crazy looking transitions, text stuff, etc. I'd do all that outside iMovie. Look into "The Gimp" for simple titles, just use your basic cuts, fades, cross fades, etc. A lot of iMovie users tend to use the cheesy things within the program. I don't know much about your artistic ability, so what I'm saying here could be extremely obvious and common sense to you, but I had to say it.

So in short, it will be fine while waiting for FCP or FCE.