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Windows 7

Posted: Tue, 16th Sep 2008, 12:27am

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PSFreak

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http://tinyurl.com/6msd2a

What do you think? I personally think it will come out a bit later than June.
Posted: Tue, 16th Sep 2008, 12:49am

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A Pickle

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I saw this. I don't really know what to think. The first beta for it is due out soon, and the second beta should be out in January/February. Added to that, it's not like they're doing anything terribly significant to Windows at the moment -- all of the really crazy enhancements they really seem to have done with Windows Vista. There isn't going to be a new driver model, so drivers that work for Vista will work for Windows 7, which means that they won't have to work as hard to launch Windows 7 bug free. Most of the "magic" in Windows 7 will be software related, which... frankly... I'm hoping for.

Vista is nice, but I can't help but get the feeling that they really missed the mark as far as realizing Gates' "information at your fingertips" vision. They need to really just get the software part done right and I don't mean by "making it less buggy," some of the software design in Vista is just stupid, UI-wise. Otherwise, Microsoft doesn't really have a problem making good software, it just takes them forever and a day to come out with it and then support it and add features.

Microsoft has already stated that it will run on all hardware that runs Vista today, and unless I'm a foaming anti-Microsoft fanboy, I see no reason to doubt that. Most of the magic of Windows 7 is to come in the form of software... and frankly, Vista's pretty good. Will I upgrade to Windows 7 immediately? Probably. I really happen to enjoy upgrading my OSes.

Realistically, though, Microsoft said 2010 and... that's what I'm gonna believe. I hope it's 2010, because I really like Vista, and frankly, I also liked the long gestation period between Vista and XP. I want the same thing to take place here (even though everyone seems to have hated that wait). I'd rather Microsoft take time on their next version while keeping Vista up-to-date and competitive with Linux and Mac OS X by adding patches and features through Windows Update, and then, when they're ready, release the next version.

But come on. Everyone knows Windows Mobile 7 is what to be excited about. smile
Posted: Tue, 16th Sep 2008, 1:22am

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Travis Kunze

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I don't like the face that there already planning on releasing Windows 7 for 2 reasons...

1. They just finished vista, and havn't perfected it, its just a cheap way of getting people to spend more money on them.
2. Im still using XP lol
Posted: Tue, 16th Sep 2008, 1:36am

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A Pickle

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Rating: +1

Travis Kunze wrote:

1. They just finished vista...
Vista launched over a year and a half ago. Where have you been?

Travis Kunze wrote:

...and havn't perfected it...
And never will. Welcome to the world of software development -- especially to the world of operating systems software development. Windows depends on much, much, more than just Microsoft-authored code to run properly (hint: drivers).

Travis Kunze wrote:

...its just a cheap way of getting people to spend more money on them.
Well, as they are a company with obligations to both their shareholders and, more importantly, their customers -- I'm not opposed to their ravenous appetite for my wallet... as long as they provide a good product to earn my working dollars.

It doesn't really take much for me, though... at least, it didn't for Vista. Vista made a good chunk of my Windows feature wishlist go away, so I was happy. smile
Posted: Tue, 16th Sep 2008, 2:01am

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DigiSm89

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Well, beta 1 of Windows 7 is supposedly going to come out this December. I'll have to get back to you on my source for that...

Beta 2, afaik, is when Windows 7 is feature complete. A lot of features that would be added to Windows 7 have been in development for years now, some even since XP came out. Thus, those features should run fine, and because features (ones that are apps sitting on top the OS) typically don't impact the performance and stability of the underlying OS, there shouldn't be any need for major testing for Windows 7 with those features.

No major changes will be made to the framework of Windows 7. Anything added to Win7 will be built atop the existing platform..aka, features. Thus, the amount of time testing the specific features will be less this time around. There will probably be more time testing specific scenarios (for e.g, if you have a 360, a zune, etc...what is the experience like with media shared across all devices and your pc).

If you're curious about Windows 7 development, you can read more at the Windows 7 blog.

I'm not really sure if June is a reasonable release date, given MS' record in the past. Though, some time next year is still a posibility.
Posted: Tue, 16th Sep 2008, 5:19am

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A Pickle

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I'm hoping they release in 2010 -- take their time to get things right. Even though they don't really deserve it, Microsoft has a bad image with Vista that, with Windows 7, they have the opportunity with which to turn around.

I'm hoping for some killer features... but I'm worried I might get disappointed. It'd be nice if, for once, the PC side of the IT world came out and gave Apple the sucker punch to innovate... but that never happens. T_T
Posted: Tue, 16th Sep 2008, 8:02pm

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Bryan M Block

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A year and a half isn't that long...
Posted: Tue, 16th Sep 2008, 8:34pm

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DVStudio

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They do have a new version of paint included. smile
Posted: Tue, 16th Sep 2008, 9:56pm

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PSFreak

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DVStudio wrote:

They do have a new version of paint included. smile
I think I'll still with photoshop for now biggrin
Posted: Tue, 16th Sep 2008, 10:20pm

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A Pickle

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DVStudio wrote:

They do have a new version of paint included. smile
I sure hope the new Paint will have a nice save quality dialogue for .JPG, .GIF and .PNG files (with transparency options on the latter two), and halfway decent batch image processing... I'll be happy. They should totally integrate it into Windows Photo Gallery, too -- like, when you click "Edit" while viewing a photo, it'd just make the Paint interface appear around the picture.

That'd be cool. biggrin
Posted: Tue, 16th Sep 2008, 10:58pm

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DVStudio

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PSFreak wrote:

DVStudio wrote:

They do have a new version of paint included. smile
I think I'll still with photoshop for now biggrin
Yeah. I use Photoshop too. I was just mentioning the fact that they seem to have upgraded event the smallest things.
Posted: Mon, 22nd Sep 2008, 9:43pm

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DVStudio

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look at this:
http://d6.allthingsd.com/20080528/windows-7-touch-demo/
Posted: Mon, 22nd Sep 2008, 9:49pm

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Bryan M Block

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Will they make Vista work first?
Posted: Mon, 22nd Sep 2008, 9:59pm

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A Pickle

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http://www.techreport.com/discussions.x/15558
Posted: Tue, 23rd Sep 2008, 8:49pm

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PSFreak

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DVStudio wrote:

They do have a new version of paint included. smile
http://tinyurl.com/49fwwd

Maybe not?
Posted: Tue, 23rd Sep 2008, 9:23pm

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A Pickle

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That will ruin Windows, right there. I don't know if Microsoft evaluates their OEM's offerings, but... HP/Dell/Toshiba/Every PC Maker Ever ALWAYS choose the worst of the worst, bottom-of-the-barrel, slow, poorly-coded, barely English software to bundle with their computers.

The free stuff that comes with Windows is often of much higher quality than the crap afforded to people through their OEM...
Posted: Tue, 23rd Sep 2008, 11:42pm

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DigiSm89

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It'll only mean that they wont be installed by default...which is good, because people won't cry anymore about MS bundling stuff. It'll remain an option for download on the Windows Welcome screen, like Live Messenger was in Vista.

It's also good because it ensures that improvements to Windows in future version wont be just updates to applications, as those applications will be updated independently of the OS.
Posted: Wed, 24th Sep 2008, 12:17am

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A Pickle

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I agree... but ultimately customer experience is what's at stake here. Unless Microsoft is going to RAIN FIRE FROM THE HEAVENS UPON lame developers.

...


I'm lookin' at you, HP. Fix your sh[-censored-].
Posted: Wed, 24th Sep 2008, 10:27am

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pdrg

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I'd expect this to be the equivelent of the transition from Win95 - win98 - looks more or less the same but is just a heap more solid. 95 was their last big UI overhaul and earth moving rearchitecting (XP was 2000 in nice clothes), and it got the same response as Vista from the Win3.1 users - eventually 98 sorted out some of the problems and more of the 3.1 boxes were ready to upgrade, so Win98 became a stable base for many people for years (I still know some 98 users - although they don't have the protection of the NT codebase and firewall so I wouldn't suggest it).

I'm slightly puzzled by the numbering scheme - Win 7 is new, so 6 is Vista, 5 is XP, so is 4 Win2k, Win ME, Win 98, or Win 95? I remember Win 3.1 (or its friend Win 3.11 "Windows for Workgroups" which introduced networking and sharing) very well indeed (and before that I was a DOS devil, I really was), never saw Win 2 or 1 in the wild, although Win 1 was little more than a program manager for DOS - you could only run one window at a time!

I'm ignoring the NT branch for now!
Posted: Wed, 24th Sep 2008, 2:20pm

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A Pickle

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The numbering scheme has to do with the NT versions of Windows. ME, 98, 95, and 3.1 don't count.
Posted: Wed, 24th Sep 2008, 7:16pm

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pdrg

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A Pickle wrote:

The numbering scheme has to do with the NT versions of Windows. ME, 98, 95, and 3.1 don't count.
I still don't get it -
NT3.5.1 - 3
NT4 - 4
Win2k - 5
XP - 6
Vista - 7
Windows 7 - 8?!

Or if you start with NT 3.5.1 as 1 then we're missing a version?!

Hardly important, I'm just puzzled!
Posted: Wed, 24th Sep 2008, 9:01pm

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DigiSm89

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pdrg wrote:


NT3.5.1 - 3
NT4 - 4
Win2k - 5
XP - 6
Vista - 7
Windows 7 - 8?!
XP is 5.1, not 6. The idea was that XP utilized features introduced in 2k. Thus, it wasn't really an entirely new version but a minor revision.

So, Vista is 6...and apparently Win7 is 7 and not 6.1. Meaning, Win7 might have improved way more than XP did over 2k.

Who knows.

Last edited Thu, 25th Sep 2008, 1:19am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 24th Sep 2008, 10:17pm

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pdrg

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Aaaah gotcha now smile

Technically in MS world that would make XP a minor revision to 2000 with their numbering convention "Major.Minor.Trivial.Build"

I remember XP was delayed when a brave program manager/product lead decided to bin the 95 legacy codebase in favour of using the NT stream. Wise decision but it cost many millions of dollars - quite a gamble!
Posted: Thu, 25th Sep 2008, 1:20am

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DigiSm89

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pdrg wrote:

Technically in MS world that would make XP a minor revision to 2000 with their numbering convention "Major.Minor.Trivial.Build"!
fixed.
Posted: Thu, 25th Sep 2008, 9:33am

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pdrg

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mVPstar wrote:

fixed.
I was just surprised to see XP considered a minor change considering how much fanfare was made about it at launch wink
Posted: Thu, 25th Sep 2008, 7:20pm

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PSFreak

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http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/Windows_7_Arriving_Early__Microsoft_to_Show_Off_New_OS_on_October_28
Posted: Thu, 25th Sep 2008, 7:56pm

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DigiSm89

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PSFreak wrote:

http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/Windows_7_Arriving_Early__Microsoft_to_Show_Off_New_OS_on_October_28

blog wrote:

If you’re dying to know what the Windows 7 desktop looks like, Microsoft’s corporate blog has some previews in a post that covers what Starting, Launching and Switching will look like in the new system (hint: a lot like Vista).
Gotta love blogger credibility. Screenshots of Vista shown on the Windows 7 blog mean that Windows 7 will look like Vista.
Posted: Thu, 25th Sep 2008, 11:14pm

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pdrg

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And it probably will look mostly like Vista truth be told - but OSes are skinnable so it could just as easily look like Win3.1 if you could bear it! Maybe some new default icons etc, but the chrome of the OS is nothing compared with the cunning changes like maybe the long awaited WinFS under the covers, cut from Vista at the last minute.
Posted: Fri, 26th Sep 2008, 1:07am

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DigiSm89

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pdrg wrote:

WinFS under the covers, cut from Vista at the last minute.
Elements of WinFS have found their way into other products. The WinFS project does not exist.
Posted: Thu, 30th Oct 2008, 4:18pm

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A Pickle

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mVPstar wrote:

Gotta love blogger credibility. Screenshots of Vista shown on the Windows 7 blog mean that Windows 7 will look like Vista.
Heh. biggrin

Microsoft shows Windows 7 to the world at PDC2008: (Bryan, this is for you)
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081028-first-look-at-windows-7.html
http://neowin.net/news/live/08/10/28/introducing-the-windows-7-ui
Posted: Sat, 1st Nov 2008, 12:17pm

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DVStudio

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pdrg wrote:

mVPstar wrote:

fixed.
I was just surprised to see XP considered a minor change considering how much fanfare was made about it at launch wink
I agree. XP was a very stable OS, still is. This was a huge step from Windows 2000 and '98. The compatibility and use and everything was hugely better. I still remember the first XP desktop we got in 2001...
Posted: Sat, 1st Nov 2008, 1:11pm

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A Pickle

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DVStudio wrote:

pdrg wrote:

mVPstar wrote:

fixed.
I was just surprised to see XP considered a minor change considering how much fanfare was made about it at launch wink
I agree. XP was a very stable OS, still is. This was a huge step from Windows 2000 and '98. The compatibility and use and everything was hugely better. I still remember the first XP desktop we got in 2001...
XP and 2000 were almost the exact same operating system... XP was much more stable than 98, yes, but so was 2000. This was because both XP and 2000 were using the NT kernel, which is much more stable than the DOS kernel which was powering every Windows 9x release. Vista uses the NT kernel, and Windows 7 will be as well.
Posted: Tue, 4th Nov 2008, 5:25pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Can't help but feel that Windows 7 is in many ways a re-named Vista Service Pack though same as A Pickle - I enjoy upgrading operating systems. I seem to with my mac almost yearly (or at least it feels that way) so won't particularly mind doing the same with my pc.

-Matt
Posted: Wed, 5th Nov 2008, 12:41am

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A Pickle

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But dammit, the price of Windows 7 better not be the usual Microsoftian death tax... Vista users have already provided an incredibly valuable thing in the form of testing the under-the-hood changes. Windows 7 wouldn't be so cool without us, Microsoft!
Posted: Wed, 10th Dec 2008, 7:38pm

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DVStudio

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Some intersting Windows 7 articles:

http://www.pcworld.com/video/id,938-page,1-bid,0/video.html

http://www.pcworld.com/article/154852/windows_7_beta_due_next_month_microsoft_hints.html

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/154935/expert_questions_windows_7_user_interface.html?tk=nl_wvxbiz

smile
Posted: Wed, 10th Dec 2008, 8:32pm

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Bryan M Block

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A couple of months ago I was put through the ringer here by suggesting that an upgrade to Vista could be quite a pain- and of course thousands of dollars later...I was proven to be right. confused And now I see that I wasn't the only one that found Vista to be unfriendly- so Microsoft is issuing Windows 7, removing lots of the "annoying" things that people hated about Vista. Golly, what a concept! An OS that really is user friendly. Macs keep looking better and better.
Posted: Wed, 10th Dec 2008, 8:57pm

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PSFreak

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There is a rumor that said if you got home premium or ultimate you can upgrade to 7 for free. Doubt it though...

^^ Must be some nice hardware if you spent 1000 bucks!
Intel i7 biggrin ?
Posted: Wed, 10th Dec 2008, 9:20pm

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Bryan M Block

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PSFreak wrote:

There is a rumor that said if you got home premium or ultimate you can upgrade to 7 for free. Doubt it though...

^^ Must be some nice hardware if you spent 1000 bucks!
Intel i7 biggrin ?
It was, a MOTU 828 audio interface...too bad the drivers were crap and it never worked right and support was nil.
Posted: Thu, 11th Dec 2008, 12:24am

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PSFreak

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Cool, did you build it?
I'll be building my first computer in January smile