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Large Glass Door Break

Posted: Mon, 2nd Mar 2009, 9:00pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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Is there any way for an actor to be thrown through a glass door, such as a sliding glass door, and have the glass shatter without actually phisically breaking anything?
Thanks
Posted: Mon, 2nd Mar 2009, 9:01pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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Possibly a digital effect, or compositing?
Thanks
Posted: Mon, 2nd Mar 2009, 11:33pm

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No Respite Productions

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Digitally on a low budget this would need to be done with stock footage.

Some alternatives would involve...

Making sugar glass from scratch and using that, plenty of tutorials on how to do this can be found through a quick google. Howver sugar glass has a very short life and quickly becomes useless, so you'd need to do it on set.

Being UK based myself, I used these guys a while back

http://www.breakawayfx.com/

Tonnes of different glass options - best of all they use plastic glass which can last for years.

Get in touch with them or someone similar where you live and they should be able to supply and ship to meet your demands. Word of warning though, if you aren't able to collect then be prepared to spend a fortune in shipping as they'll obviously need to package the goods very carefully.

However, if you need things done on the cheap then I'd try and purchase some broken or rubber glass from the site linked above (click on the Glass option on the left hand side menu and you'll see the link for the broken glass)

With that and some clever editing, it should give you a good enough effect wink

Hope that helps.
Posted: Mon, 2nd Mar 2009, 11:47pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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Where could I find some stock footage for that?
Thanks
Posted: Mon, 2nd Mar 2009, 11:53pm

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spydurhank

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1. You could use a 3d app to make yourself a pane of 3d glass.

2. Put your camera on a tri pod. lock it down.
2a. Tape some footage of the sliding glass door without your actor in the shot.
2b. Open the sliding glass door so no one gets hurt. Very important.
2c. Tape footage of your actor being pushed or falling through the sliding glass doorway.
2d. Shoot several angles if you need it but use the same principles as stated above.
2e. Use a photo editing program and create or draw out a "crack" or "fracture" pattern to simulate glass breaking. you should be able to animate this pattern to fit onto your glass doorway.
2f. Create a whole bunch of seperate patterns to simulate pieces of glass.

I'm not sure which product you have but in vision lab I would do this.

Composite the empty back ground footage with your actors footage.
Composite the initial break pattern on the frame right before the actor should hit the glass. That should hide the part where you have to cut off the empty background shot so th sliding glass door is no longer visible.
I'd import the individual pieces of glass that were created in your photo editor, open them as texture files in the particle engine and play with the settings till you get the effect of falling glass.
You could even open a couple of those "glass shards" stick em on your time line and animate them, some larger than others to add some depth.

I know you didn't want to break anything but if worse comes to worse you could use sugar glass. Hope this helps. biggrin
Posted: Mon, 2nd Mar 2009, 11:58pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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Thank You, that helps alot. What do you mean though when you say draw a fracture in a photo editor? I get it but for example in photoshop, or similar programs, how would you do this? A tutorial would be great.
Thank you very much.
Posted: Tue, 3rd Mar 2009, 12:02am

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FXstudios99

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Let's see... you probably don't want to actually break a glass door biggrin so...

OK, I found some good ALAMDV2 plugins that you would just import as regular media and then insert it. Here are the links.
TIP: You could put a bunch of these together to make a bigger shatter.

http://fxhome.com/alamdv2/plugins/view/892/shatteredglass01

http://fxhome.com/alamdv2/plugins/view/893/shatteredglass02

http://fxhome.com/alamdv2/plugins/view/894/shatteredglass03

http://fxhome.com/alamdv2/plugins/view/895/shatteredglass04
Posted: Tue, 3rd Mar 2009, 12:10am

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spydurhank

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Say you create a new layer or canvas...
Add another layer. This layer will be transparent, it will have alpha.
Go back to your footage and look at the darkest area in you glass.
Now back in your photo editor... Try and use a color that is close to that one.
Draw a bunch of lines "can be random" to look like glass that is "cracked" but not fully broken, like it's falling.
Delete the layer that you didn't draw on and save the Alpha layer.
When you import the image into your fx home product you should only see all those "cracked" lines that you drew.
This would only be in your shot or video for a single frame, maybe two.

If you need more help let me know. I'm not that great on making tutorials but if you can post a picture of your sliding glass door I can try and make you a pattern for that shattered look if you want.
Posted: Tue, 3rd Mar 2009, 12:16am

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CoolBeans Studio

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Thanks, the thing is that would be labor intensive because you would have to do each frame, and when the glass is actually shattering, that would be a challenge. And the thing with the plugins is that is only falls to the bottom of the screen. There would not be any shards flying around. What do you think would be the best thing to do?

I also made some glass textures, but in the partical engine, it is hard to make it look completely see through, but still be visible and have a glass look. Is there there something that could be done there?

Thank you, all help is greatly appreciated!
Posted: Tue, 3rd Mar 2009, 12:34am

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spydurhank

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I think the initial shatter of the glass during impact should be easy enough, like I said, that should only be visible for about a frame or two.
As far as the particle engine goes... it should handle the transparency issue very well but if your still having issues with it not looking transparent enough, you can add a "transparency grade filter" to the particle engine and lower the transparency once it's on the time line.
Do you need this anytime soon?
I'm working on other stuff right now but I can do a couple of test runs in the morning and let you know how it goes.
I'm 100% positive it can be done without using a 3D app.
Posted: Tue, 3rd Mar 2009, 12:48am

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CoolBeans Studio

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Thank You, a test would be good. I am going to try to upload the glass preset that I have made so far so you could look at that too.
Thanks
[/quote][/b]
Posted: Tue, 3rd Mar 2009, 1:04am

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spydurhank

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That's no problem at all, glad to help.
If you can... try and upload a pic of your glass door under the same lighting conditions that you're going to film it.
And thank you for having the idea in the first place.
I really digg it when people do that, because it makes me think of how to do things. It helps the imagination. biggrin
Posted: Tue, 3rd Mar 2009, 11:33pm

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spydurhank

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So this is what I came up with.
I used those glass plug-ins but not the 1st one. I couldn't un-zip it.
I also used still images that I made in gimp. I tried to give it a "glass flying towards the camera" look. I didn't do any color grading to make the glass match the scene, I should have but I got lazy.
So here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrAZa65wTuE

Hope it helps.
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 5:24pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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Sorry I have taken so long to reply, been sick and busy. That is really good. That is exactly what I am looking for! So could you go into a little detail on how you made that? And what is gimp?
Thank You Very Much!
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 5:28pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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Also, the plugins are just falling glass not flying towards the camera. How did you make it fly at the camera? I was thinking maybe that if it is a quick break, you could make the plugin get bigger as it goes on giving the illusion of it coming at the camera.
Thanks.
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 5:39pm

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spydurhank

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Gimp is a free photo editor like photo chop or corel. I'ts a nice program.
the glass flying towards the door are just two or three images that I made in Gimp. I made the initial glass pane in Gimp as well.

I animated the still images so they scaled up and rotated, 2. clockwise and 1. counter clockwise. Giving the glass the appearance of coming towards the camera. It's really hard to see because it's so fast but I also made 7. still images for the initial impact on the glass pane, a spider web type pattern for when glass fist break.
I copied and pasted each glass layer on the time line and added a subtle displacement map so you can see the background through it... again it goes by too fast to see the effect. I could try and slow it down as well as color correct the glass so the whole effect can be seen. What do you think?
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 5:47pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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I have effects lab, so I do not think I have the displacement map, or do I? Anyway I have Paint.net which is also a free photo editor. How do you created glass like that? Do you use a certain color?

While you are helping me, do you know how to gain FXexperience? I just was curios!

Thanks.
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 5:47pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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Curious, sorry!
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 6:09pm

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spydurhank

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I rendered 1. framw of the doorway as a png image in visionlab then opened it in gimp.
I then added a new layer which was transparent so The V.L. image was visible. I used a free selection tool and drew around the doorway then used the bucketfill tool to paint the selection grey. That was the pane of glass.
I messed with the color a bit so that the top of the glass was a slightly different then the bottom, kinda like a prism effect type of deal. I saved it as "Glass 1.
Then I re-used the same image 7 or 8 times to draw the initial crack right before the glass breaks and begins falling, again saving and re-naming each image with Glass + a number to keep track of them.
I used the same 1st image again and used the selection tool to make several small shards of glass that were used as the shards of glass that flew towards the camera.

You get points when you buy an fx home product or if you read a helpfull post and want to recomend it to others. by clicking on the ratings -red or +green
Oh and feel better by the way.
If you want I can post the images I used for you.
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 6:09pm

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spydurhank

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Rating: +1

spydurhank wrote:

I rendered 1. frame of the doorway as a png image in visionlab then opened it in gimp.
I then added a new layer which was transparent so The V.L. image was visible. I used a free selection tool and drew around the doorway then used the bucketfill tool to paint the selection grey. That was the pane of glass.
I messed with the color a bit so that the top of the glass was a slightly different then the bottom, kinda like a prism effect type of deal. I saved it as "Glass 1.
Then I re-used the same image 7 or 8 times to draw the initial crack right before the glass breaks and begins falling, again saving and re-naming each image with Glass + a number to keep track of them.
I used the same 1st image again and used the selection tool to make several small shards of glass that were used as the shards of glass that flew towards the camera.

You get points when you buy an fx home product or if you read a helpfull post and want to recomend it to others. by clicking on the ratings -red or +green
Oh and feel better by the way.
If you want I can post the images I used for you.
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 6:15pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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Thank you very much. How do you make it look like glass if it was gray? As I already said, I do not think that I have the displacement map feature. Some photos would be nice if you can. And how do you upload pictures to a post.

Thank you very much for your time!
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 6:19pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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Also what tool did you use to draw the cracks and what color? And again how would I make the gray and shards look like glass?
Thanks
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 6:21pm

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spydurhank

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Rating: +1

I'll post some in a bit.
I used a white color to draw the crack lines, it's so fast, 7 frames that it looks okay.
There's a free image hosting site called image shack, kinda like photo bucket.
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 6:25pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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Thanks, and actually I do have displacement map, so you can still use that to help me with.
Thanks [/img]
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 6:27pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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How many shards did you draw each frame? It looks like there is so many shards. How long did it take you also?

Thanks
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 6:54pm

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spydurhank

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Rating: +1

Here you go.
This is the order that I used them in.

This was for the glass pane right before your actor falls through it.


By spydurhank at 2009-03-04

The next pics are the initial crack building up.
Note that the lines aren't that great but because it happens so fast it actually looka okay.


By spydurhank at 2009-03-04


By spydurhank at 2009-03-04


By spydurhank at 2009-03-04


By spydurhank at 2009-03-04


By spydurhank at 2009-03-04


By spydurhank at 2009-03-04

These last 3 are the ones I used for the whole coming towards the camera effect. again it was really fast 5 to 6 frames.


By spydurhank at 2009-03-04


By spydurhank at 2009-03-04


By spydurhank at 2009-03-04

Note that all the images are already transparent so no keying is needed but you should be able to add a transparency filter to decrease the opacity if you need to.
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 7:51pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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Thank You very much, I think I am going to test this soon. Just a quick question, how did you make it look like the pane, like multi colored?

Thanks!
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 8:22pm

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spydurhank

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I used a airbrush tool, scaled kinda large and just added differant colors and then used a smudge tool to blend them together but Gimp has this cool option where you can control the transparency of whatever tool you use to draw, pen, ink, pencil or airbrush. you can make them look completely solid to semi transparent. You'll notice that the Glass pane and the smaller shards are all see through if you place them over your video footage.
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 9:25pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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Ya they are. I think that I could try a test now. There is only one more thing: Effects Lab can only do displacement maps on effects, not media. I saw how the displacement map made the glass more realistic. What do you think I could do for that in my case? I was thinking maybe just doing a mild particle effect with the glass texture I created, and putting the displacement map on that to blend in with all of the shards flying around anyway. That might help. What do you think?

Thanks.
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 9:33pm

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spydurhank

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That's a really good idea.

I think that if you place a grade object on your time line and use a displacement map on it, then go to mask= object mask. you can then link the object mask with displacement map to whatever object you have on your time line.
Wait... do you have Grade filters in effects lab?
If you don't I'm not sure that what I mentioned would work but what you came up with sure will.
Try it out and let me know how it goes.
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 10:33pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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That is a really good idea! I think that would work. Just how do I make the displacement map lower strength? I am not sure if I have as many tweaking tools in Effects Lab.

Thank You
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 10:34pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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Yes I do have grade filters also.
Thanks
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 10:42pm

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spydurhank

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Cool, then the object mask thing should work.
After you select the displacement map. Click on it, on your time line.
You should see it's attributes pop up on a dialogue box to your right on the screen. There are 2 slider tools for verticle and horizontal. Slide them left and the displacement strength goes down.
I had them kinda low so you can only see the "see through" effect if I slow the footage down.
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 11:13pm

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CoolBeans Studio

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Thank you, I am going to test this soon, I will let you know how it goes.

Thanks!
Posted: Wed, 4th Mar 2009, 11:19pm

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spydurhank

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No problem and good luck.