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Final Harry Potter Trailer

Posted: Fri, 17th Apr 2009, 1:48am

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jawajohnny

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SPOILERS

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809791044/video/13010741

Yet another great trailer (it's the fourth one now)... but it gives a little too much away for my tastes. And I'm still perplexed by the rating. The past two films have been PG-13, and the trailers for this one look extremely dark, yet it's been rated PG. I suppose they want the film to reach a broader audience, but HBP in book form is not at all appropriate for young children. And in the first place, the filmmakers had anticipated a PG-13 rating. Odd.
Posted: Fri, 17th Apr 2009, 2:39am

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TheOutlawAmbulance

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jawajohnny wrote:

The past two films have been PG-13, and the trailers for this one look extremely dark, yet it's been rated PG. I suppose they want the film to reach a broader audience, but HBP in book form is not at all appropriate for young children. And in the first place, the filmmakers had anticipated a PG-13 rating. Odd.
I agree. This movie should be much more...umm...evil. I don't understand why they would rate it PG when should be rated PG-13 or (if included every detail) possibly R.

I was flipping through "On Demand" on Time Warner Cable and they had a Wiggles movie rated PG. Harry Potter is just about as dark as the Wiggles. Odd world, wouldn't you agree?

By the way my birthday is July 15 (the release date)! Pretty neat huh? wink
Posted: Fri, 17th Apr 2009, 5:19am

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Atom

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Ratings are entirely subjective and guidelines really depend on context. The themes in V for Vendetta, for instance, were a large part for it receiving an R rating. Despite a few coarse words, I only recall so much violence and a single f-word. But the context for the killings and violence in the film, along with the use of the words in the movie, helped push the R rating onto it.

Conversely so, Marley & Me, which cavalierly uses the words bullshitt, shitt, ass, asshole, and son-of-a-bitchh a few times- shows Jennifer Aniston naked from side-angles, and deals with inherent sexual connotations in scenes was rated PG; because the overall movie didn't harp on these things and the message and tone of it all was very lukewarm and kid-accessible.

It entirely depends on context, and I've always really liked that about the rating system; for all the bad press it seems to get. Harry Potter probably gets away with several things you'd not likely see or hear in every PG-rated movie, but if it's context is right and it remains kid-accessible; it's understandable for it to warrant a PG rating.

After all, we discount the meaning of 'PG' here in America. It doesn't mean every kid could or should see the movie, but rather, suggests parental guidance and discretion in allowing a child to see the movie.
Posted: Fri, 17th Apr 2009, 10:09am

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Jonnie

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loving the re-vamped harry potter tune. More epic like.
Posted: Fri, 17th Apr 2009, 11:52am

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Sollthar

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Trailer has some interesting artdesign. And in a weak blockbuster year like this appears to be, this actually looks like the best of the lot despite the fact I never really got into the whole Harry Potter thing. But they're good fun.

parental guidance and discretion in allowing a child to see the movie.
Violence is okay. But they might catch a glimpse of a naked BREAST!!! That turns kids into monsters!
Posted: Fri, 17th Apr 2009, 3:39pm

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Atom

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I think that one's more about culture. I tend to think of nudity as being a harsher and more-blatant thing to censor- but that's just me.

We don't complain about your system of ratings and thoughts on it all- why must people always harp on our 'excessive kid-friendly violence!'. It really simply isn't so.

Again, a cultural difference no doubt.
Posted: Fri, 17th Apr 2009, 3:45pm

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Sollthar

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What's a bit of violence, death, suffering and pain compared to the shock of a naked skin. What will the children think of this world?

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/study_children_exposed_to

Our system of ratings is great. They turn video games upside down and color the blood GREEN so that it's all kid friendly. Clever.



Aaaaaanyways. Let's not get off topic.
Posted: Fri, 17th Apr 2009, 5:53pm

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Atom

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Rating: -2

Let's not get off topic? Don't throw in your flagrant condescending smug little quips and we'll be just fine. I generally agree with the MPAA rating system, and most American ratings by that extension- and feel strongly about nudity as a pretty adult issue- as obviously most Americans do. That's why our system is the way it is. It doesn't mean we're content with violence or crave it or anything. Just as I suspect the same is true with you all and nudity.

It's a cultural difference, there's no need to attack it and all. You don't see me calling you Europeans sex-crazed because you censor violence but don't care if a woman flashes in a movie 10-year-olds watch, do you? biggrin
Posted: Fri, 17th Apr 2009, 7:36pm

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jawajohnny

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I see what you're saying Atom. However, like I said, the previous two films (Goblet of Fire, Order of the Phoenix) were rated PG-13. Goblet of Fire is the "turning point" of the series... where it progressively shifts to more mature themes. The books get increasingly more dark and violent, so it doesn't really make sense to revert back to the PG rating unless something's been toned down. Based on the precedent established by the previous films, and the fact that HBP should be much more violent, the PG rating doesn't make sense.
Posted: Fri, 17th Apr 2009, 9:24pm

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Staff Only

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Sollthar wrote:

And in a weak blockbuster year like this appears to be...
I can't agree with this.

What about: Watchmen, Transformers 2, Wolverine, Terminator Salvation, Star Trek, Half Blood Prince?

Or do you mean weak as in low quality? Because I can't agree then either. Also we might get James Cameron's Avatar this year which might make this the most awesome blockbuster year since 1977.

Anyway the trailer looks good. Some really cool things and some not so cool things. I'm a book purist and don't like any changes made (hence my love for Snyder's Watchmen). It will be interesting to see how distracting moving part of the climax to The Burrow will be for an old fan like me.
Posted: Fri, 17th Apr 2009, 10:13pm

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Sollthar

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What about: Watchmen, Transformers 2, Wolverine, Terminator Salvation, Star Trek, Half Blood Prince?
Watchmen was "ok", Transformers was pretty bad so I don't expect 2 to be much better really, Wolverine looks terrible so far and Star Trek looks like a generic sci fi actioner, instead of a Star Trek movie - but I hope it'll at least be fun. Terminator I'm not sure about, could go either way from what I've seen so far. And as I said, Harry Potter is good to watch for me when there's nothing else, but I never got into it much.

Another James Cameron film however, that could get me interested!


Oh, and of course I'm content with nudity and crave it... oink
Sex-society, violence society. Seems to fit quite well.
Posted: Fri, 17th Apr 2009, 11:32pm

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jawajohnny

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Sollthar wrote:

Another James Cameron film however, that could get me interested!
I'm definitely excited for Avatar.

I initially thought Star Trek would be a generic summer action film, but I've heard the fan reaction from the premieres (both unofficial and official) was overwhelmingly positive. Harry Potter also looks great. I'll go see Transformers... it's the one franchise that can get away with being a CGI blowout.

What looks weak, is Terminator. To me, it looks like it'll be a generic action film. I'd take Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles over another movie any day. It's the best show on TV right now, delivering a compelling plot and better acting and character development than any of the movies. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think Summer Glau is better in the "protect John Connor" role than Arnold was.

Back to Harry Potter, am I imagining things, or did I hear a Gandalf voice yell "Hocus Pocus" towards the end of the trailer?
Posted: Sat, 18th Apr 2009, 4:59am

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Pooky

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Sollthar wrote:

Watchmen was "ok", Transformers was pretty bad so I don't expect 2 to be much better really, Wolverine looks terrible so far and Star Trek looks like a generic sci fi actioner, instead of a Star Trek movie - but I hope it'll at least be fun. Terminator I'm not sure about, could go either way from what I've seen so far. And as I said, Harry Potter is good to watch for me when there's nothing else, but I never got into it much.
Speaking of which, Gran Torino was pretty good... you seen anything else that you liked recently?
Posted: Sat, 18th Apr 2009, 7:35am

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Sollthar

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Gran Torino was fantastic, so was Changeling and Frost / Nixon. Loved all three, The Reader was very well acted, but I thought it was a bit of a boring film anyways, a bit like Benjamin Button which was simply too long. Hmmm, Other then that, I haven't seen much this year that I really liked.
Posted: Sat, 18th Apr 2009, 2:44pm

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Tommy Gundersen

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Sollthar wrote:

What about: Watchmen, Transformers 2, Wolverine, Terminator Salvation, Star Trek, Half Blood Prince?
Watchmen was "ok", Transformers was pretty bad so I don't expect 2 to be much better really, Wolverine looks terrible so far and Star Trek looks like a generic sci fi actioner, instead of a Star Trek movie - but I hope it'll at least be fun. Terminator I'm not sure about, could go either way from what I've seen so far. And as I said, Harry Potter is good to watch for me when there's nothing else, but I never got into it much.

Another James Cameron film however, that could get me interested!


Oh, and of course I'm content with nudity and crave it... oink
Sex-society, violence society. Seems to fit quite well.
Even though your taste doesn't like Transformers, doesn't mean it was bad. Who are you thinking if you don't like it, it's bad? I'm sure many people can't wait for the second one. *Cough*

While we're on that, I'd suggest the Star Trek series are terrible. And yeah, that's sarcasm. I just don't personally like it though I know it's good.

Same goes for Wolverine and the Star Trek movie. And any other movie you claimed to be bad.

At least, you can reason why you think either one of them is generally bad creatively and entertainingly wise.

Point hopefully stated.

-T.G.


EDIT: Before you state me contradicting myself, I just watched Babylon 5, leaving me kind of a one-sided fan-boy. Though I do have seen a bit Star Trek lately.
Posted: Sat, 18th Apr 2009, 2:53pm

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Sollthar

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Even though your taste doesn't like Transformers, doesn't mean it was bad.
We're talking about movies... It's ALL about taste. There's no truth or fact to it.

I didn't like Transformers and thought it was a bad film. If you like it and think it was a good film and enjoy it, be my guest. Good for you.

I'm sure I enjoy some movies you don't (for example, the Star Trek TV show which I really like, especially TNG and the DS9 episodes). Totally fine for me.

What's it with people and different opinions in here? Puberty?
Posted: Sat, 18th Apr 2009, 4:35pm

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Pooky

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I think it's just culture. From what I saw when I lived there, different opinions are an accepted fact in Europe, and real debate is actually encouraged without leading to conflict (usually).

In North America, it tends to be more about crusading for what you believe in and being the underdog that eventually wins over the evil oppressors. That bleeds out into tastes, where it seems everybody has to agree on what is a good movie and what is a bad one.

That's my analysis anyway.
Posted: Sat, 18th Apr 2009, 4:41pm

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Tommy Gundersen

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All I'm saying Sollthar, is it's a slight difference saying "I don't find it good" to "It's not good." or "It's bad quality". Because that's objective. It's personal. You were indirectly saying they aren't worth getting called a good movie. That's how I percieved your post anyways. It may as well just be me smile
Posted: Sat, 18th Apr 2009, 4:50pm

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Sollthar

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Are you seriously trying to go into that kind of semantics now...?

Surely, people say "X is good / bad / nice / boring / interesting / slow / fast" as a mean to express their opinion on something without always explicitly adding "this is just my opinion" or "in my opinion"? Obviously so when talking about judging something as subjective as a movie exprience.
If a movie experience is all about opinion, then surely, stating a sentiment about a movie as "an opinion" is a purely redundant piece of information, as it can't be anything else in the first place.

I didn't like it, still don't and think it is a bad film. You can disagree if you like, I've got nothing against that. You can write "it's a good film" too, I've got no problem with that either.


If you're getting all jumpy simply because someone writes "It's a bad movie" on something you like, then you appear to have some issues, my friend... IN MY OPINION. wink
Posted: Sat, 18th Apr 2009, 5:10pm

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jawajohnny

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It's an opinion. Critics can say that The X-Files: I Want to Believe is a bad movie. I, and many fans, can say it's a great movie. There isn't anyone who can definitively determine that it's a good movie or a bad movie. There is no "truth", if you will. It's all about personal taste. As long as you're intelligent, you can have whatever opinion you want.

Let's get back on topic. smile

Last edited Sat, 18th Apr 2009, 5:12pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 18th Apr 2009, 5:11pm

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Sollthar

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As long as you're intelligent, you can have whatever opinion you want.
So dumb people can't have opinions? smile
Posted: Sat, 18th Apr 2009, 5:29pm

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jawajohnny

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Sollthar wrote:

As long as you're intelligent, you can have whatever opinion you want.
So dumb people can't have opinions? smile
Correct. razz Haha. What I mean is that you need to be able to legitimately defend you're opinion. There are plenty of dumb trolls on different movie forums like imdb, that say "this movie sucks" or "this movie rules", but can't back up their opinion, i.e. they can't objectively critique a movie. Or, the reason they disliked the movie could be incorrect in itself. This isn't exactly a movie critique, but it applies: I was reading an Amazon user review of the Firefly blu-ray set, where they complain about the amount of grain present. But that's the way it was filmed... it was intentional. So that opinion isn't really valid. If you want your opinion to mean anything, you need to intelligently defend it. smile
Posted: Sat, 18th Apr 2009, 6:34pm

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spydurhank

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Sorry, this is off topic but I get back into it.

Yeah dude I noticed that about living in the U.S.
You sometimes get hammered if your opinion differs from others on something as simple as wether you liked a movie or not.
I was just kidding this one time when I told some friends that had just watched D.K. I said that I didn't like the Dark Knight... Yeah I'm not getting into that one.

Anyway, having an opinion does matter and we should respect others opinions just as they should hopefully respect ours. I myself respect everyones opinion on this site, not just as people but also because you're all insanely talented at what you do. But hey, that's just my opinion and if you don't like it.... That's cool. Heh.

I didn't like the Transformers movie all that much myself for a few reasons but mostly because I thought the script was meh. And that's coming from a guy that likes and grew up watching the original cartoon.

Same thing with Star Trek, I thought that some of the Movies and t.v. series were good and some weren't all that great. But I still watched them because I grew up with them and wanted to give them a chance.

As for the Potter flicks... Dude I fell asleep during the first movie, it was really boring to me at the time so I never gave the sequals a chance. But after watching the new trailer I'm gonna go back and watch the ones that I missed and then watch the new one. Maybe I'll learn something. biggrin
Posted: Sat, 18th Apr 2009, 8:56pm

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Serpent

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Pooky wrote:

In North America, it tends to be more about crusading for what you believe in and being the underdog that eventually wins over the evil oppressors.
That is the main problem with American society right now IMO (see how I had to add that so others wouldn't be offended?). It's ridiculous, but I can see why a lot of people here are that way. Too bad.

Good trailer, nothing too special. Still excited.
Posted: Sat, 18th Apr 2009, 10:33pm

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Pooky

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Serpent wrote:

Pooky wrote:

In North America, it tends to be more about crusading for what you believe in and being the underdog that eventually wins over the evil oppressors.
That is the main problem with American society right now IMO (see how I had to add that so others wouldn't be offended?). It's ridiculous, but I can see why a lot of people here are that way. Too bad.

Good trailer, nothing too special. Still excited.
I think part of it is the history. I mean... America used to be the underdog that eventually won out on the British and claimed independence. So now, it's become the "American dream" where apparently anyone can get anywhere no matter what their starting condition is, and it's used in most movies (ex. humans in the Matrix, Rebels in Star Wars, Harry Potter in Harry Potter).

I think it's wishful thinking, but that doesn't stop most people from trying to apply those conditions to their lives, even if it doesn't fit. That in turn leads to people fighting for their opinions despite being wrong, and not considering the fact that others may be right or of equal value.

By the way if this is considered improper conversation for the forums, let me know. I find this quite interesting, though smile
Posted: Sun, 19th Apr 2009, 2:13am

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Atom

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You are all so far off from the truth....it's startling and hilarious at the same time.

The sweepingly elitist/ignorant comments of many amaze me- simply because they go undetected or uncommented on. Tommy's right; only person I agree with so far.

Where the f8ck are y'all getting these 'experiences' in North America???? Spydurhank- I disliked The Dark Knight, and most of the hostility I ever got was from primarily the Europeans in this very forum. Just saying...
Posted: Sun, 19th Apr 2009, 2:28am

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Axeman

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Isn't this supposed to be a discussion of a Harry Potter trailer? It appears to have digressed significantly.
Posted: Sun, 19th Apr 2009, 5:54am

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Pooky

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Well, yeah, but isn't a discussion better than a long string of "I like it!" and "I don't like it!"?

Atom, I'm not sure you understand my position. Personally, I'm the kind of person that tends to like nearly everything: I quite liked Twilight, Blade Runner, 2Fast 2Furious and Schindler's List, but they're all really different. I listen to stuff ranging from Pussycat Dolls to Muse to Disturbed.

In essence, I take pleasure in learning why other people like certain things (with a few notable exceptions).

Which means I think *nearly* everyone has a good reason to like or dislike something. That's not what I was contradicting, but rather that something in both your and my culture seems to make people want to crusade to prove why their taste is better... just enjoy what you enjoy and let others do the same. I'm not going to force you to listen to Britney's discography and like it, am I?

The very term you used, elitist, means someone who believes in his or her own superiority over others. That's not what I'm trying to be; in fact, I'm trying to point out quite the opposite: I have horrible taste, like everyone else, you and Solly included.

And in answer to your question, I got most of my first-hand perspective on the world from Montreal, as well as from my time spent in Boston, New York, D.C., the Netherlands and England. Haven't spent any significant amount of time in Texas, though. And of course, I was generalising; Europe has a ton of douches, too.

Last edited Sun, 19th Apr 2009, 6:11am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 19th Apr 2009, 6:11am

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Atom

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Heh, that last sentence sealed your post so eloquently. wink

And I wasn't really calling you elitist, it's just the hypocrisy of it all. People debating haughtily how there's 'opinion' and it's all just 'opinion' and then setting rules-of-supposed-fact/standards where, if anyone disagrees, it's simply because they're not 'worldly' enough to see otherwise.

If that makes any sense. It's all almost as bothersome as the whole 'there are no bad movies its all a matter of taste' mantra. Come on, now. There are some universally, unequivocally bad movies- let's not prance around for the sake of looking 'accepting' and act like it's all just taste. There are some clearly-cut 'bad' and 'good' movies out there.

Last edited Sun, 19th Apr 2009, 6:16am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 19th Apr 2009, 6:13am

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Pooky

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Atom wrote:

Heh, that last sentence sealed your post so eloquently. wink
Hehe, it's true! Our house was once nearly blown up when a firework commonly used to start avalanches was sent towards an open window me and my family were looking through (by accident, he seemed quite drunk). It ended up ricocheting off the windowsill and blowing up in a huge thundering blast of fire a couple feet away. A few centimeters closer, and we'd probably all be dead. I suggest not being in Holland on January 1st...


And yeah, I can certainly agree to that, and it is a bit paradoxical to set rules about there being no real rules. Still, even super crap movies can be considered relevant to some people. Take a movie that consists of three hours of a guy sleeping... you could probably go on for a few hours about the significance that rests within. Isn't that the whole point of art, subjectivity?

In my view, objectivity only really exists to try and make sense of the subjectivity... I mean, even space and time are relative!
Posted: Sun, 19th Apr 2009, 8:07am

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ben3308

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Pooky wrote:

In my view, objectivity only really exists to try and make sense of the subjectivity... I mean, even space and time are relative!
I could not agree more!

The real problem, I'd say, is when people use truth's (objectivity) fallibility to make their own transgressions defensible; regardless of whether or not they know or understand what they're defending.

I don't mean this in Sollthar's case, but the case of people who argue the instance of opinion, even against absurdity. A classic argument to illustrate this is the 'well, because it's my opinion that it's good, etc' argument for gun ownership. Well.......why? I think the 'why' in these denominations of taste is what causes these arguments, not delusions as a result of the 'American dream'. The latter, in fact, seems like a decent rationale, but more of an attempt to pin a complex, perceived 'problem' on something that has almost nothing to do with it!

Yes, I think the root of all this - and I am speaking in definite terms here biggrin - has to do with the importance we, as individuals, attribute to things being sloshed onto mere opinion. After all, if everything went that way, from where would we derive law, ethics, or order? The problem then, of course, is that those who question the subjectivity of opinion feel that they deserve some substantiation to continue any further discussion(and I'm not just talking about Atom here) and those who dispense the opinions, erring on the side of their own 'take it or leave it' thoughts, aren't too apt to give reasons - after all, it's just their opinion!

Rather, it all appears to be a classic case of mere disagreement. Why argue, then? biggrin
Posted: Sun, 19th Apr 2009, 8:20am

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spydurhank

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Atom wrote:

You are all so far off from the truth....it's startling and hilarious at the same time.

The sweepingly elitist/ignorant comments of many amaze me- simply because they go undetected or uncommented on. Tommy's right; only person I agree with so far.

Where the f8ck are y'all getting these 'experiences' in North America???? Spydurhank- I disliked The Dark Knight, and most of the hostility I ever got was from primarily the Europeans in this very forum. Just saying...
Dude I see where you're coming from. biggrin

Some folks know what they're talking about concerning certain subjects while a crap load of others really have no clue... I don't know wether it may be thier fault for not knowing what the subject or facts are on said subject, so should we play the part of the judge every time someone says something we don't agree with?
I personaly try not to bother with that kind of stuff anymore. The key word being "try". but I don't always get it right.

I get fed up with some people too bro. There's alot of folks that rub me the wrong way but I do my best to not point out thier short comings because I'm pretty damned sure that I'm not perfect so I can't judge them. I just feel that if someone wants to make a remark about something wether they're right or wrong... it should be okay for them to make an ass out of themselves if they really want to. Otherwise why would they have had something to say in the first place.

To put another nail on my coffin... The reason I didn't like the D.K's version of the Joker one damned bit was... this is just me. He's supposed to be an insane lunatic that doesn't give a crap about anything or anyone right? but they made him into a mastermind that planned every crime that he commited because he wanted to prove just how dark and selfish people are by putting them in a situation that ment life or death. Planning something out is premeditation which does not scream maniac to me. But hey that's just my take on the flick even though alot of folks thought the D.K's version of the Joker was brilliant. Nerds! I can say that because I'm a nerd.

So just because I see one thing and someone else sees something else...
I don't know dude? Am I supposed to cry about it or make a big deal about it beacuse they don't understand my point of view?
I don't know man. You can try and explain what you're trying to say over and over so no one gets offended even though it could be something really simple, but not everyone's going to get it or they just don't want to listen, so how far do you have to take it before you, yourself end up sounding like the folks that are making you upset?

This is from me to you Atom.
You used to make me angry with your comments to others on this site.
Guess what? I was very wrong and also very, very stupid to get angry with you because I don't know you, your personality or your humor.
After a bit of thinking about it and actually reading what you where saying I realized what you were about.
I think you're a really good guy and you actually try and help people on this site when you can. So it's the same thing with you man, Not everyones gonna get what you're saying so don't let it bother you so much.

1+1 is 2 my man. I'm sure everyone can agree on that at least.
Yeah, yeah I know that's a dumb cliche but that's one of the last things my dad said to me before he died so I like saying it.
Did I tell you that I thought the Dark Knight sucked a big fat bull donkey? Ha! Oh wait!... isn't this a Harry Potter thread?
Posted: Sun, 19th Apr 2009, 9:08am

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Serpent

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Atom wrote:

Where the f8ck are y'all getting these 'experiences' in North America????
Not everyone in America, not at all. I'm talking about the people that are talking, people that want their opinion heard too much. I have just personally found, in society, that when I say something, people will often take it personally. They will then react to this by telling me off for my opinion. The ones who don't, they shut up, or they have a conversation. They aren't the problem. The one's who are being assholes, they are the problem. In my experience, the people I've met and talked to from all over have said the same. Like Pooky, of COURSE this is a generalization. But it has literally gotten to the point where I have to be with a specifically intelligent, mature, and open minded group of people to have certain conversations where opinions are expressed. Sometimes it makes conversation dull. It's a bigger problem in younger people I feel. Is it wrong that I thing that is a big problem in America? Of course it's a problem in other countries, but having traveled and spent time in many other countries, I've found it to be less-so. Every location has variables that will generally psychologically influence the population. I'm not saying my observations are statistically correct, that's just my opinion. Which is sad that I still put that, and people were still offended. Some people just aren't mature enough to engage in conversations peacefully sometimes. When you talk about social psychology, you have to make generalizations.

Sometimes I think you take things way too literally and you end up making sweeping ignorant/elitist judgments of people for simple forum comments. Nothing was meant to be taken personally, it's just something I've observed. Whenever "America" is mentioned in a post, you take everything too personally. IMO.
Posted: Sun, 19th Apr 2009, 10:01am

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Sollthar

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Just to quickly elaborate my stand on "opinion" and "facts":

- I believe both exist. Objective facts and subjective opinions on those facts.

- Everything that goes into ethics or aestethics, all sorts of VALUES, is pure opinion, cultural. in constant change and a matter of perspective. There's nothing that is objectively "good" or "bad" or "beautiful" or "ugly". It's all a viewpoint of an individual and every individual has his own set of values. Mankind has often tried to rationalize morals and values and act as if there's a "cathegortical imperative" (for those unfamiliar with philosophy: Things that are objectively and universally good and bad, like being enforced by a forbidden subject in this forums I won't get into). That's something I totally don't believe in and disregard to full extent as factually wrong.
Those are values which are neither true nor false.

- Everything that describes things in their existance, either past or current, or tries to deduct a causal correlation between things is objective and not a matter of opinion. However, obviously, since we're all individials and subjects and aren't all knowing, we have a subjective viewpoint and different assumptions about the world and about what exists or doesn't and how their connected (like, if that cathegorical imperative exists or not for example), but all those ARE either true or false. As in: They're either an accurate description or not. If we'll ever know that or not, is an entirely other question.
But these are assumptions which are either true or false.

Or putting in philosophical terms: Facts deal with how the world IS. Opinions deal with how the world is SUPPOSED TO BE. So as soon as words like "good" "bad", "right" "wrong" (morally, not as in true or false, there's a difference), "nice", "ugly", "beautyful" etc are used, you're instantly leaving the world of fact and deal with opinions and values.


So you can say wheter a film exists or not, wheter it's 102 minutes or 105 in length, wheter it was shot with the red camera or the HVX, wheter it made a lot of money or not etc objectively. You can even say objectively, that a film didn't entertain you (since that's a fact). You can even state wheter a certain aspect of film follows set rules by the industry.
I mean, there's obviously set standards in the industry on how to judge for example wheter a camerawork is according to those rules or not, wheter a story follows set dramatic rules or not, wheter the editing follows the guidelines and rules of editing or not. Certainly. But those rules are in constant change and development (just look at any development in art and what was regarded as "the way to do it" over time) because those are in fact nothing else then a try to put aesthical values into a set of rules. That's no truth either.


That's my 2 cent anyways and my world view in a nutshell. Though it's a way too complex subject obviously to explain properly in a forum post. smile
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 4:36pm

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Terminal Velocity

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First of all, guys, let's calm down. I won't say "go back on topic" because it's too far beyond that already, but we shouldn't start flaming.

I think rating depends on firstly, the subject matter, and secondly, the level of said subject matter. For instance.

If you don't want your kid seeing any violence, then okay. That's your business. Personally I think this is not a good idea simply because they will not be prepared when they eventually do start seeing violent themes. Not saying they should be getting drunk on the stuff, but it's going to happen. This world, unfortunately, is violent. It's like germs. If you never experience them, then later when you are exposed to them, your immune system will be unable to cope. But I think that when young children see violence, there should be a positive moral lesson, such as in LOTR. Or else it should be explained to them. Finally, if neither of those are present, it should be in the context of a history lesson or something. Though I consider that a bit of a stretch. (Note: I might be a bit biased on the side of violent movies. I'm fourteen and male. Go figure.)

Sexual themes, I believe should be definitely confined to more mature people. I haven't seen Marley and Me, but it it's true that you see even the slightest flash of a naked woman, then younger kids shouldn't be watching it. At all. It's simply not meant for younger kids and ought to wait until they're older. There are those themes that are measured by the level, i.e. violence, and then those measured by their existence. Such as sex. Romance is crap, but it's okay because it doesn't really say anything of what happens. You know, smoochy and it's over. Doesn't mean I like it though.

Language. This is a toughie. For one thing, it's difficult to discern whether or not it's actually language. You might say, "the damned creatures". Well, are you swearing or are they really damned? I think that language is unnecessary, offensive, and vulgar, but it's not the absolute worst thing ever to happen. But again, it's the level of said language that you hear that matters. A couple "damns" and "hells" are again unnecessary, but I'm not going to stagger back and gasp. Whereas a movie loaded with "f--k", "s--t", and "a-s" and other such strong language shouldn't be seen by little kids.

I agree with Sollthar that there is fact and opinion. I say that morals are a matter of fact, because if everyone in the world followed a set of moral guidlines, things would be a lot better, wouldn't they? There would be some differences, but also things that basic reason says not to do, such as murder, theft, and cheating. You might say differently, but that's what I say. And I don't want to argue about it. Just leave it at a statement of your beliefs.

Opinion is whether one thing or another is good/bad/ugly/etc. Ice cream, cheeseburgers, action movies, other things. This isn't really a serious matter, but strangely seems to be what people mostly start arguing over. Such as.
"Harry Potter's great!"
"Ah, it's complete crap."
"Keep your opinions to yourself!"
"Shut up, you idiot!"
Etc.
Maybe that's because these are the discussions that the mindless spammers get involved in. Personally, I don't like Harry Potter. I barely know a thing about it, but I don't like what I know. Guys flying around on broomsticks? Wands? So stereotyped. (Forgive me for being harsh...I don't know how to express my opinions any other way.)

EDIT: And someone mentioned the gun ban. I don't agree with this. Think about it. What my dad says is "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will carry guns". Which makes sense. You see a criminal running around with an illegal rifle, you say "Man, that's illegal." What's he going to say? "Pssht, I don't care. Considering I'm planning to blow up a bank tonight. I'm already public enemy no. 1." Plus, if civilians don't carry guns, that'll make thieves all the more ready to rob them. Finish later g2g.
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 5:58pm

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Atom

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Really Big Gun Studios wrote:

I agree with Sollthar that there is fact and opinion.
Have you been paying, I dunno, any attention to what we've been saying these past two pages? I think we all agreed there's a distinction between fact and opinion that is very real- it was a point I posted on entirely to address; and, for me, it was because of Sollthar to begin with. biggrin

You've now put this long dissertation on what opinion is and what fact is, while saying moments before 'let's get back on topic!'. This all, also, discounting the fact that you seem to have ignored what we all wrote. I was pretty happy with how the conversation was moving along- intelligently and peacefully.
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 6:38pm

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Terminal Velocity

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Atom wrote:

Really Big Gun Studios wrote:

I agree with Sollthar that there is fact and opinion.
Have you been paying, I dunno, any attention to what we've been saying these past two pages? I think we all agreed there's a distinction between fact and opinion that is very real- it was a point I posted on entirely to address; and, for me, it was because of Sollthar to begin with. biggrin

You've now put this long dissertation on what opinion is and what fact is, while saying moments before 'let's get back on topic!'. This all, also, discounting the fact that you seem to have ignored what we all wrote. I was pretty happy with how the conversation was moving along- intelligently and peacefully.
1: Yes. But I'm not going to quote everyone. Anyway, isn't that a more or less trivial matter?

2: Em, I said that I would not say to get back on topic. I can see how that would be interpreted as an implication that I wanted it back on topic, but that's not what I meant.

3: I don't know how I prevented the discussion from "moving along intelligently and peacefully". Everyone was giving their opinion, why can't I?
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 8:24pm

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Atom

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Because you're essentially saying "Whoa, whoa! Everyone calm down, we're getting off topic! Okay, now here's what I think on what I just told you all not to talk about......".

Not to mention you're treading over completely covered ground. It's not simply a matter of voicing opinion, but staying current with where the conversation is going. Does that make more sense?
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 8:44pm

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ben3308

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Atom wrote:

It's not simply a matter of voicing opinion, but staying current with where the conversation is going. Does that make more sense?
I forgot that you were in charge of the rules.
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 8:51pm

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Terminal Velocity

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Atom wrote:

Because you're essentially saying "Whoa, whoa! Everyone calm down, we're getting off topic! Okay, now here's what I think on what I just told you all not to talk about......".

Not to mention you're treading over completely covered ground. It's not simply a matter of voicing opinion, but staying current with where the conversation is going. Does that make more sense?
I said everybody calm down, but I don't particularly care about getting back on topic. Besides, it seemed like all the bases were covered on the Harry Potter thing.

And where exactly was the conversation going, if not to a discussion of rating?
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 9:36pm

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Evman

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Rating: +1

Harry Potter 6 looks great!!!
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 10:33pm

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Terminal Velocity

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Which one's that?
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 10:45pm

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Paradox Pictures

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Hello? isn't there one more book?
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 12:19am

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Terminal Velocity

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Dunno. Think so.
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 1:50am

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No Degradation

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Hehe, the release date is on my birthday.
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 6:33am

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B3N

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Yep. one more book which will have a film follow up with no fans if this film kills it's fandom. Which by the looks of it...it might.
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 4:16pm

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Pooky

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To be honest, I'm pretty sure this is gonna be crap. Visually, it looks amazing, but the whole point and soul of Harry Potter was lost at some point. The movies are horribly shallow blockbusters with amazing effects, nothing more.

/opinion
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 5:55pm

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jawajohnny

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Pooky wrote:

To be honest, I'm pretty sure this is gonna be crap. Visually, it looks amazing, but the whole point and soul of Harry Potter was lost at some point. The movies are horribly shallow blockbusters with amazing effects, nothing more.

/opinion
Pooky, are you saying that just the movies have lost it, or are you talking about the later books as well? After the last one, a lot of critics who didn't read the books were left wondering where the "magic" had gone, complaining about the dark turn the series has taken. But it's exactly like that in the books. I personally think the movies have done an excellent job retaining the "point and soul" of the books, and handling the transfer from "whimsical fun" to the "darkness" portrayed in the later books. The overall plot and character development is very much there, save for a few of the minor characters and subplots.
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 6:36pm

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Atom

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Rating: +1

I think the movies have all generally been excellent, most-especially the third and fifth (most recent one). Let's make no mistake, here. We discount it a hell of a lot, but the Harry Potter franchise is one of (if not the only) movie series that has never made a below-decent film. In fact, they've all been rather great, IMO. Not perfect, but all a far-cry from other wildly lauded series like Star Wars or even The Godfather- both franchises with some stinkers in them. wink

True, Harry Potter has lost most of its momentum; but you can't really blame anyone for that. Movies take time to make, and they've still been able to produce 6 pretty spiffy, well-made movies in a very short (8 years) amount of time. It's not as if they'll just stop because it's been 8 years, I tend to think, you know?

6 movies on the caliber and epic scale that they've been on in 8 years? I'd say that's pretty f8cking impressive. But that's just me. You all had to have seen that this would be a decade-long ordeal from the get-go, right? I sure did, back when I was like 10.

Money aside, I think everyone generally wants to see this series through 'til the end. I may not get OMFG-excited anymore, but I appreciate the films. Like I said, I thought the Order of the Phoenix was an excellent movie; accessible and well-played- evocative and epic- it all worked into exactly what Harry Potter was for me at that age.

This isn't true for everyone, I realize, but the likes of myself, Evman, Serpent, Ben, etc. were all the age of Harry Potter as the books came out, ala I was 13 when Harry was 13, 15 when he was 15, etc. and the books did a decent job of progressing the themes to fit in with the most-relatable audiences' age and feelings.

It may still have been pretty juvenile diction J.K. Rowling used in the latter books, but I was pleased to see that- just as I had started out a young boy reading a child's fantasy book and inevitably grown up- so had Harry, and the books were still accessible to me as a teen. It wasn't like I was just reading an ongoing 'kid's book series' that I was way too unfit for.

No, Harry Potter has always been something different; and that's the reason people loved and adored him and the movies and books for many years. He followed you and stayed relatable as you got older. It's no surprise, or letdown either, that the movies follow the same current.

As we get older, sadly, our lives tend to get bleaker and lose that sense of magic and wonderment, our problems get harder to solve and more complex, and we lose the momentum we once had. Harry Potter, in many ways, has always been a great example of this.

I haven't ever really expressed it, but I think the next movie looks absolutely fantastic. The fact that we discount these near-masterpieces as looking 'okay, I guess....just impressive visual effects, kinda' should say something about the series. It's always been so technically proficient, visually stunning, and thematically compelling that we've simply got used to it, and treat is as the mundane or ordinary; expected. I'd say that's a near compliment. smile

The last movie was excellent, took me by complete surprise how good it was. Easily one of the better movies in a tough year of competitive masterpieces. (2007) I've no doubt this one will be even better.

"FIGHT BACK YOU COWARD!!!!!!" Oooooh, I got nerd-goosebumps. biggrin
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 6:55pm

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Terminal Velocity

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Atom wrote:

...the Harry Potter franchise is one of (if not the only) movie series that has never made a below-decent film.
If u count these as series, the LOTR, the Matrix, Indiana Jones.
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 7:32pm

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Sollthar

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LOTR is the best movie series I've seen yet. Harry Potter is slightly below average for me and a total LOTR wannabe - at least in terms of the movies. I haven't read the books.
Though the Matrix is a very weak series. It had only one good film, the first. The later two are utter garbage. And Indy is fantastic, despite a mediocre 4th addition.

disclaimer: this is all my opinion, if I haven't made that clear, I hereby do. wink
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 8:58pm

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ben3308

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Sollthar wrote:

Harry Potter is slightly below average.... Matrix is a very weak series......Indy is fantastic
Since when are thesethis sarcasm may be too dry...accepted facts?!
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 9:00pm

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Sollthar

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Did you lose your glasses or do I have to write my disclaimer in capitals, size 60 for you, old man? oink

Though, everyone knows that really. There's just a few lost souls who still argue the opposite. Or aren't wordly enough to accept the common known facts really.
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 9:13pm

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Terminal Velocity

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I don't know about you, but I liked the Matrix. (Well, okay, I technically do know about you, considering you just said so.) The story might not have been top notch, but I really loved the effects and action scenes. Reloaded was the best, I think, for action. LOTR is top of my list, and apparently most critics, too. wink Indiana Jones is indeed great, and the second best series. I do not know much about Harry Potter, but from what I know it looks stereotyped and boring.

Disclaimer: Just an opinion, don't get mad about it.
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 10:04pm

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Atom

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LOTR I may give you (although I could not stand ROTK, Fellowship deserved the Oscar).

Matrix - Revolutions was a stinker.
Indy - Crystal Skull ring a bell? wink

I believe every series has their Godfather Part III, except Harry Potter so far. And I'm much more impressed that not 2 or 3 but 6 movies so far have been made successfully, and I know that the first 5 at least are quite exceptional. That's no easy feat. I'd like to see LOTR swing that, especially while the series is still being written as was with HP until a year or two ago.

Really Big Gun Studios wrote:

Disclaimer: Just an opinion, don't get mad about it.
Way to be Captain Obvious Douche. rolleyes

People can still get mad at opinions, man.
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 10:15pm

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Terminal Velocity

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Atom wrote:

LOTR I may give you (although I could not stand ROTK, Fellowship deserved the Oscar).

Matrix - Revolutions was a stinker.
Indy - Crystal Skull ring a bell? wink

I believe every series has their Godfather Part III, except Harry Potter so far. And I'm much more impressed that not 2 or 3 but 6 movies so far have been made successfully, and I know that the first 5 at least are quite exceptional. That's no easy feat. I'd like to see LOTR swing that, especially while the series is still being written as was with HP until a year or two ago.

Really Big Gun Studios wrote:

Disclaimer: Just an opinion, don't get mad about it.
Way to be Captain Obvious Douche. rolleyes

People can still get mad at opinions, man.
Crystal Skull was better than average. It was not up to the usual, but I still really liked it.

Revolutions was okay. It could have been better, but I didn't dislike it.

I'm being obvious because Sollthar said basically the same thing, and it seems ben3308 missed it.

I'll agree with you on HP when it gets voted as "greatest book of the millennium", remains hugely popular for 50 years, and win 11 out of 11 Oscar nominations on its film adaption.

Maybe people do get mad at opinions, myself included. But does it mean they should?
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 10:51pm

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Atom

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I'm guessing you're saying LOTR was deemed "Greatest Book of the Millenium"? Was it, now? On who's authority?

rolleyes
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 11:58pm

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Thrawn

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This discussion is quite entertaining to read.. lol But that's just my opinion. wink
Posted: Wed, 22nd Apr 2009, 12:12am

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jawajohnny

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I agree with Atom. Harry Potter is definitely the most consistent movie franchise of all time. All the movies have been rather good, and sit alongside LOTR as some of the greatest book adaptations I've seen. If HBP is done right, then it's going to be the one that raises the franchise from "rather good" to "epic greatness".

"FIGHT BACK YOU COWARD!!!". Gives me goosebumps too. smile Some other standout moments from the trailer are Dumbledore's ring of fire in the cave, the Harry/Malfoy bathroom duel, and the Death Eater attack on the muggle bridge. Brilliant stuff, by the looks of it all.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Apr 2009, 12:50am

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Serpent

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Sollthar wrote:

and a total LOTR wannabe - at least in terms of the movies. I haven't read the books.
I really don't see that at all. It's a fantasy book adapted to film to make money. Other than genre and the elements of the film inherited by the genre, I don't see how Harry Potter is trying to be like Lord of the Rings. I think it was just another "failed" studio adaptation. It did it's job, made the box office numbers, but failed to live up to the caliber someone who actually cared about the series/story would have liked. True fans wanted a quality film, but the films they gave us only really appeal to a less mature audience. Anyways, think you could elaborate on that?


I would have liked to of seen masterpieces out the Harry Potter films; unfortunately what else can one expect from a typical Hollywood film? Harry Potter movies are fun films that I enjoy watching, and they will surely remind me of the series in a nostalgic way. But they certainly aren't great.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Apr 2009, 1:17am

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Terminal Velocity

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Atom wrote:

I'm guessing you're saying LOTR was deemed "Greatest Book of the Millenium"? Was it, now? On who's authority?

rolleyes

Wikipedia wrote:

In a 1999 poll of Amazon.com customers, The Lord of the Rings was judged to be their favourite "book of the millennium."

Last edited Wed, 22nd Apr 2009, 1:54am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 22nd Apr 2009, 1:46am

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DVStudio

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**Spoilers**

Yeah, that is actually a pretty good trailer in my opinion. Very well done, very spooky, great effects. Any idea who does the effects for the Harry Potter films, and mainly for this one? Would it be ILM? They look awesome in the HD trailer. hugegrin

Oh well. I'll be on my vacation this summer when this film comes out! An awesome time to see the move, you know? smile

"Fight back you coward!" (can't wait for this scene with snape killing dumbledore... but of course it was all part of the plan...

"...and the darkest hour is upon us all..." (yeah it is! wink )

Great lines really!

Just my 2p

DV
Posted: Wed, 22nd Apr 2009, 7:23am

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Sollthar

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Rating: +1

I think it was god himself who liked the lord of the rings books the best of all time. I just wrote him on MSN, and he confirms. And let's not doubt him. He must know.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Apr 2009, 7:34am

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Evman

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Dammit. And my clever ploy to get us back on track had seemed to be working...


No but seriously, this movie looks pretty good. Brings to life things I've wanted to see for years now. If it's anywhere near as good as the fifth film, I'll probably be satisfied.

It's interesting - I hated the sixth book when it came out. Like really hated it. Then I reread it just before the seventh came out and I absolutely loved it. I have no idea why I had such a 180 change of heart about it. But I'm pretty stoked for this movie now after this trailer.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Apr 2009, 3:16pm

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Terminal Velocity

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I guess I really ought to shut up about HP now...but I think that if Sollthar was not being completely sarcastic about LOTR, then I agree with him.

Sollthar wrote:

I think it was God himself who liked the lord of the rings books the best of all time.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Apr 2009, 3:21pm

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Sollthar

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Yeah, god enjoyed those LOTR books more then that bible thing everyone's talking about. He didn't like the characters in it. He's a bit of a Harry Potter Fanboy too though, just not much.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Apr 2009, 4:23pm

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Terminal Velocity

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Rating: -4

Sollthar wrote:

Yeah, god enjoyed those LOTR books more then that bible thing everyone's talking about. He didn't like the characters in it. He's a bit of a Harry Potter Fanboy too though, just not much.
Isn't this getting into religion? sakhgei sajgj;lhro kjhfdlit rojsot
Posted: Wed, 22nd Apr 2009, 9:30pm

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ben3308

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Sollthar wrote:

I think it was god himself who liked the lord of the rings books the best of all time. I just wrote him on MSN, and he confirms.
I don't think I've ever seen you say anything funnier. biggrin
Posted: Thu, 23rd Apr 2009, 2:11am

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Terminal Velocity

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Rating: -3

ben3308 wrote:

Sollthar wrote:

I think it was god himself who liked the lord of the rings books the best of all time. I just wrote him on MSN, and he confirms.
I don't think I've ever seen you say anything funnier. biggrin
Then he must be a regular riot. confused

But it is going into religion. There are those for whom the Bible is part of religion and they will be offended.
Posted: Thu, 23rd Apr 2009, 3:17am

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Serpent

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Really Big Gun Studios wrote:

and they will be offended.
Why be offended? It was an unoffensive, sarcastic joke; lighten up. Have some religious security. If non religious people make jokes about religion, they usually aren't doing it to offend religious people, they are just making conversation. If they are judging you, so what? They are a smaller person then. That just doesn't usually happen here. So no, this isn't "getting into religion."
Posted: Thu, 23rd Apr 2009, 4:41am

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Atom

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I heard God uses AIM these days, Solly. Stay up with the times.
Posted: Thu, 23rd Apr 2009, 7:38am

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spydurhank

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Yeah dude, a joke is a joke and he didn't mean any harm by it. At least that's how I'm taking it and I thought it was funny by the way.

I myself don't nor will I ever have an issue with someone making a jest or simply talking about religion. It's the same thing as someone saying... I don't like this movie but I like this other movie. Someone else is gonna have an opposit point of view right? What's the big deal? I mean come on, REALLY? How can you honestly become offended because people believe or think something else than you do? Are you gonna go witch hunting or something?

I'm not calling anybody out or looking to offend anyone but I had 1 of my posts deleted because I had an "idea" about something that just happened to involve religion. It was a valid thought with no ill intent but rather a different point of view for a story or script, but because it involved religion it was deleted.

I don't have an issue with my post being deleted because I understand that some people may have been offended by it, even though there was no cause or reason in my post for anyone to be offended or think otherwise.

What I do have an issue with... "Once again I'm not being a dick and naming names"

You were nice about it but you delete my post over religion even though I stated that I didn't have a problem with talking about it nor was I trying to be offensive with my post, and I tried to explain my idea on a certain situation, but then you turn around and make a joke about religion knowing full well that some people might get offended by your remark. I still think the joke was funny BTW. biggrin I don't no man? You've really got to make up your mind wether it's not cool for other people to talk about that subject but it's cool for you to make any kind of remark you want. Really man!? This is not a one way street. That's gotta be a joke with you or something and I just don't get it.

Do you understand where I'm comming from? confused I hope you do.

I still dislike DK, I'm not saying it was bad... I'm just saying it wasn't good. But I'm still gonna go back and watch all the HP flicks just to see what I missed. Oh and I talked to god and he said that he didn't believe in Harry Potter. Ha! biggrin
Posted: Thu, 23rd Apr 2009, 1:41pm

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Thrawn

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Really Big Gun Studios wrote:

There are those for whom the Bible is part of religion and they will be offended.
Chill out, man. It really shouldn't offend you that much. It's just Sollthar's way of making a joke, and nothing to be upset about. I don't think it's worth giving you a -1, considering you're new and all, but no need to make a fuss over nothing.
Posted: Thu, 23rd Apr 2009, 2:49pm

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Atom

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When Sollthar makes snarky anti-religious/culturally-insensitive statements, trust me: you'll know. I'll be the first one there to call him on 'em, too, and I'll do it harshly. Always have.

But this ain't one of those times, Really Big Gun. Now go change your username. It's annoying, not a singular title for a person, and terrible to type out given how frequently you exercise the forums lately.
Posted: Thu, 23rd Apr 2009, 5:21pm

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Terminal Velocity

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Then call me RBG. And you think I'm being picky. wink

I realize that it was probably a joke. However, people might not take it as a joke. While I realize he didn't mean any harm, others might not. And soon everybody will start making jokes and soon it becomes serious. I simply don't want to get things started down that track.

Spydurhank: I would talk religion forever and a day, but the fact is that it's against the rules.
Posted: Thu, 23rd Apr 2009, 5:59pm

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Sollthar

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If people chose to be offended by my joke, let them. It wasn't intended as an anti-religious remark. but if it gets picked up as such, I wpn't lose sleep over it. And trust me, when I get my truly anti-religious guns out, you'll know, as atom said. wink

Now, on to other things.
Posted: Thu, 23rd Apr 2009, 8:20pm

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StupidLikeAFox

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DVStudio wrote:

**Spoilers**

Yeah, that is actually a pretty good trailer in my opinion. Very well done, very spooky, great effects. Any idea who does the effects for the Harry Potter films, and mainly for this one? Would it be ILM? They look awesome in the HD trailer. hugegrin

Oh well. I'll be on my vacation this summer when this film comes out! An awesome time to see the move, you know? smile

"Fight back you coward!" (can't wait for this scene with snape killing dumbledore... but of course it was all part of the plan...

"...and the darkest hour is upon us all..." (yeah it is! wink )

Great lines really!

Just my 2p

DV
This company, Double Negative does the visual effects for the Harry Potter movies 3,4,5,6 and they are doing the Deathly Hallows at the moment, the deathly hallows is going to be split into two parts. Anyways here is the link tot he company... http://www.dneg.com/projects/projects_list.html
Posted: Fri, 24th Apr 2009, 3:48pm

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jawajohnny

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Looks like ILM worked on it too. (Although their page isn't up to date at all)

http://www.ilm.com/inproduction.html


They're already filming Deathly Hallows:

http://gallery.the-leaky-cauldron.org/album/5234

http://gallery.the-leaky-cauldron.org/album/5450
Posted: Sat, 25th Apr 2009, 10:03pm

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jawajohnny wrote:

I agree with Atom. Harry Potter is definitely the most consistent movie franchise of all time.
I couldn't disagree more.

/rant

(NB: this rant is not directed at you jawajohnny or anyone who likes the HP films. I just love to complain about how the films were rushed into production in 2000 to cash in on the book hype when it didn't serve the adaptations at all.)

Every time HP changed director for me it was like the change in tone/style was dumped in your face like a bucket of ice water. So was the change of Dumbledore (I would have gone with Liam Neeson as he would have been perfect as Dumbledore, anything but Gambon and his nasal voice), and change of design and layout in PoA because Cuaron had his own idea how a beloved and previously established franchise should look.

The most consistent franchises I know of are LotR and The Bourne Trilogy. I was amazed at how well the change from Liman to Greengrass went (if you mention shaky-cam I will have to ignore you razz), considering The Bourne Identity is the only Liman film I have liked I am glad someone else finished the franchise as he might have messed it up.

I strongly object to how HP was made into movies. The only way for me to like it would be to wait until ALL the books were written, write all the screenplays at once, get one well picked director (with the kind of source material obsession Snyder had for Watchmen) to sign for all the films and spend 7-8 years making them almost back-to-back for absolute consistency with the main characters ages. They would keep the same DP, the same effects house (why the hell suddenly give Double Negative the bulk of the work? When you have ILM?! Your work was good in TDK and adequate in Cloverfield but Grawp, among other things, sucked Double Negavtive! Leave it to the big guys at ILM), and for God's sake the same composer to make all the movies like one loooong movie. Just like LotR.

Anything else and I can only regard it with mild intrest. IMO the HP movies consistency died when Chis Columbus left, John Williams left, ILM was given the back seat, and Richard Harris passed away.

/rant over

Oh and in case I misunderstood and you were talking about the franchise with the most consistent quality I would like to say that I absolutely hate Goblet of Fire and it is one of three or four movies I have given below 3/10 on IMDb simply for butchering the book like a blender.

That being said I also got nerd-goosebumps at "FIGHT BACK YOU COWARD!!!!!!"
Posted: Sun, 26th Apr 2009, 2:23am

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jawajohnny

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Ah, couldn't disagree more. smile LOTR and Bourne are definitely consistent. However, the Harry Potter franchise has simply put out more films. While some of them aren't as great as say, Fellowship of the Ring, they are very good films, that I think, do capture the spirit of the books. After all, J.K. Rowling does read and approve each script. So far, I think it's pretty amazing that they have stayed so close to the books. Really, all the necessary information has made it into the movies, which is a pretty incredible feat, compared to the not-so-good adaptations, like Eragon. The only plot holes I can see are the absence of the locket and the lacking explanation of the prophecy from the last film.

I'm really amazed the HP movies have turned out as great as they have. Really, the filmmakers have gotten everything right. The casting was absolutely brilliant, from Radcliffe, Grint, and Watson, to the adult actors, like Rickman, Smith, Coltraine. Seriously, every single actor is perfect. Excellent set design, locations, and special effects (save for Grawp, who did look strangely terrible). Only things that are "bad", are the awkward choreographed entrance of the Durmstrang students, and Dumbledore's angry outburst in GOF (which is definitely the weakest).

What I do agree with, Staff Only, is your opinion on the music. The music hasn't been up to par since Williams left. I guess you could say the music is anything but consistent, with the theme being changed so much since POA. smile

/rant
Posted: Sun, 26th Apr 2009, 9:09am

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Atom

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I'll be the bad guy here:

Williams' music begins to get redundant, I feel like. Redundant and underwhelming. Even with Harry Potter. Don't get me wrong; he's great to create some of the initial themes- certainly Hedwig's theme has become the epitome of the Harry Potter 'feel'- but I thought the best score, and the most fitting, was on the last movie. Aside from the obvious matter of 'taste' in music composition (I like Williams) I think he's fallen into all of his stuff sounding too unenthusiastic and recycled these days.

Granted, like Elfman, there's a similarity to each score a composer creates- such is what consistency-of-'style' is. But unlike Elfman, Williams is just slippin these days. All just my opinion, of course.

I think the music doesn't suffer- it's just criticized by those composer-loyals. Like Elfman on Batman, people just won't accept good music when it comes from a change in composer in a franchise.
Posted: Sun, 26th Apr 2009, 8:00pm

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Terminal Velocity

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My opinion is that the job of a film (an adaption, like LotR, not Indiana Jones), is to capture the story itself and retain its level of "coolness" for lack of a better word. I thought LotR did this fantastically; though it was not perfect, it was amazingly close. Adding and subtracting certain content is okay in my book, as long as, A: a consistent and fitting replacement for the subtracted material, and B: it is not material pivotal to the story.

Eragon was utterly pathetic. Aside from the fact that it deviated from the book horribly (which was also mediocre) and invented an entirely new storyline, it left no room for a sequel, and was a boring movie in and of itself.

I don't know about HP. I haven't read/seen it.

Atom: there's got to be a bad guy. cool
Posted: Sun, 26th Apr 2009, 8:07pm

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Evman

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Atom wrote:

I'll be the bad guy here:

Williams' music begins to get redundant, I feel like. Redundant and underwhelming. Even with Harry Potter. Don't get me wrong; he's great to create some of the initial themes- certainly Hedwig's theme has become the epitome of the Harry Potter 'feel'- but I thought the best score, and the most fitting, was on the last movie. Aside from the obvious matter of 'taste' in music composition (I like Williams) I think he's fallen into all of his stuff sounding too unenthusiastic and recycled these days.

Granted, like Elfman, there's a similarity to each score a composer creates- such is what consistency-of-'style' is. But unlike Elfman, Williams is just slippin these days. All just my opinion, of course.

I think the music doesn't suffer- it's just criticized by those composer-loyals. Like Elfman on Batman, people just won't accept good music when it comes from a change in composer in a franchise.
Yeah, I agree. Although I will say that Williams' third score, for Prisoner of Azkaban, was much different than the previous two. I think because Cuaron managed to actually inspire Williams to do something new.
Posted: Sun, 26th Apr 2009, 8:48pm

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Atom

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Yeah, I'd agree with that. I hesitated to put that the fifth movie had the best score- but it just fitted so well- and I tend to think Cuaron was just good enough to make Williams' stuff work.

Something like, I'll guess it's called 'Buckbeak's Theme', when Harry is riding Buckbeak in the third film captures that same tone perfectly-even for Williams.

But yeah, for me it isn't about consistency or sameness, it's about keeping inline with the tone the film needs to take. The ending scenes of Order of the Phoenix......the music made those scenes. Am I in a minority who thinks that the last movie was clearly a great movie, a worthy adaptation considering the length of the book, and the best movie in the series.

Ben and I had this conversation a few days ago, agreeing that Azkaban is a terrific movie but deviated too harshly from Columbus' films and jarred some people when it came out. Now, years later, I think people can appreciate it more- and god knows I love it, second best in a series of good movies, but it also pulled some of the magic out of the movies.

Hell, this didn't bother me- I accepted the change, but as jawajohnny noted- some people simply don't care because the franchise has slowly lost its magic. See my post a few pages back on the inevitability of this fact for reference...
Posted: Sun, 26th Apr 2009, 8:54pm

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Staff Only

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jawajohnny wrote:

Ah, couldn't disagree more. smile LOTR and Bourne are definitely consistent. However, the Harry Potter franchise has simply put out more films. While some of them aren't as great as say, Fellowship of the Ring, they are very good films, that I think, do capture the spirit of the books. After all, J.K. Rowling does read and approve each script. So far, I think it's pretty amazing that they have stayed so close to the books. Really, all the necessary information has made it into the movies, which is a pretty incredible feat, compared to the not-so-good adaptations, like Eragon. The only plot holes I can see are the absence of the locket and the lacking explanation of the prophecy from the last film.

I'm really amazed the HP movies have turned out as great as they have. Really, the filmmakers have gotten everything right. The casting was absolutely brilliant, from Radcliffe, Grint, and Watson, to the adult actors, like Rickman, Smith, Coltraine. Seriously, every single actor is perfect. Excellent set design, locations, and special effects (save for Grawp, who did look strangely terrible). Only things that are "bad", are the awkward choreographed entrance of the Durmstrang students, and Dumbledore's angry outburst in GOF (which is definitely the weakest).

What I do agree with, Staff Only, is your opinion on the music. The music hasn't been up to par since Williams left. I guess you could say the music is anything but consistent, with the theme being changed so much since POA. smile

/rant
I can tell you are a real book fan. smile It is good to see that as a book fan you are capable of judging the films so fairly (I know I'm being very unfair). I agree with you on the casting and the effects (Dementors, Basilisk even Fluffy are all pretty great). And yes Dumbledore's outburst in GoF is the saddest moment in all the films (especially as the 9th paragraph of page 242 of the UK edition of GoF reads: "'Did you put your name into the Goblet of Fire, Harry?' Dumbledore asked calmly". Calmly! What is there not to get?). In any case I'll try to see the new film with an open mind as you clearly do wink It's just that watching a HP film when Columbus was directing was like re-living a magical part of my childhood.

The Locket and The Prophecy are the main concern among fans, but I also grumble about cutting Neville out of the prophecy and cutting the Barty Crouch Sr. subplot in GoF (that is the most Agatha Christie style twist in all the HP books!) as well as The Quidditch World Cup. Also changing JKR's descriptions to suit the Director's vision bothers me (most of all with Cuaron's egocentric approach).

I should stop harassing this thread now.
Posted: Sun, 26th Apr 2009, 9:43pm

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jawajohnny

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Staff Only wrote:

And yes Dumbledore's outburst in GoF is the saddest moment in all the films (especially as the 9th paragraph of page 242 of the UK edition of GoF reads: "'Did you put your name into the Goblet of Fire, Harry?' Dumbledore asked calmly". Calmly! What is there not to get?)
Nice reference. I haven't read the book since before the movie came out, so now I think that scene is even more pathetic. smile To sum up my opinion on the movies so far, I think Columbus did an excellent job capturing the "magic" (and plot) of the first two books. Cuaron made some odd changes and gave us a breath of fresh air, while still maintaining the necessary elements from the book. GOF stayed very true to the book as well, but there are a few horrendous scenes in there as well. OOTP is the best one yet. It deviated the most from the book, but made up for it from an emotional standpoint.

To disagree with Atom, I don't care for the music from OOTP. I don't like Hooper's variation on the theme, and the rest of the music is forgettable (but perhaps I should listen to it again). I didn't mind Patrick Doyle's GOF score as much, I think his theme appropriately echoed the shift to darker waters. But clearly, Williams has done the best work so far.

Richard III wrote:

Eragon was utterly pathetic. Aside from the fact that it deviated from the book horribly (which was also mediocre) and invented an entirely new storyline, it left no room for a sequel, and was a boring movie in and of itself.
Eragon was truly pathetic. However it did leave room for a sequel... they won a small battle, but haven't entirely defeated the Empire. Unless you just mean that they butchered the plot so much and left out so many characters that making Eldest would be impossible, then you are correct. smile I really want to remake The Inheritance Cycle "the right way". I was reading Brisingr the other day and I was basically planning out all the shots in my head. If done correctly, that series could be on the same level as Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings.
Posted: Sun, 26th Apr 2009, 9:47pm

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Terminal Velocity

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jawajohnny wrote:

Unless you just mean that they butchered the plot so much and left out so many characters that making Eldest would be impossible, then you are correct.
This. From the starting movie being how it was, the films could only get worse.

jawajohnny wrote:

I really want to remake The Inheritance Cycle "the right way". I was reading Brisingr the other day and I was basically planning out all the shots in my head. If done correctly, that series could be on the same level as Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings.
Brisingr was good. I really liked it. One problem being, it built on Eragon and Eldest, an unstable foundation. The first was okay, the second was awful. Unless the fourth is a really amazing book, I will let go of Inheritance as a mediocre effort.
Posted: Sun, 26th Apr 2009, 10:35pm

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jawajohnny

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I would say The Inheritance Cycle is better than mediocre. It's probably my favorite book series, in fact. All the books are great. However, they do have their problems. Eragon and Eldest draw too heavily from Star Wars, although Paolini is a much better writer than George Lucas, and his characters are much more interesting. Brisingr strays from the Star Wars plot, although it is way too long. I like big books, but do we really need the fifteen pages that describe the forging of a sword in every painstaking detail? Paolini needs to learn something that J.K. Rowling is very good at: pacing.

What a comparison this is though. Look at the Harry Potter series, and then look at the atrocious Eragon, and you'll see how lucky we are with the former turning out as good as it has.
Posted: Sun, 26th Apr 2009, 10:54pm

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Terminal Velocity

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jawajohnny wrote:

I would say The Inheritance Cycle is better than mediocre. It's probably my favorite book series, in fact. All the books are great. However, they do have their problems. Eragon and Eldest draw too heavily from Star Wars, although Paolini is a much better writer than George Lucas, and his characters are much more interesting. Brisingr strays from the Star Wars plot, although it is way too long. I like big books, but do we really need the fifteen pages that describe the forging of a sword in every painstaking detail? Paolini needs to learn something that J.K. Rowling is very good at: pacing.

What a comparison this is though. Look at the Harry Potter series, and then look at the atrocious Eragon, and you'll see how lucky we are with the former turning out as good as it has.
Eragon (the character) is an bullheaded idiot in the first book. He's a lovestruck drooling turnip brain in the second. The third one is fine, but still pretty boring. The characters all talk the same, whether they're rough farmers or kings. They all rely on oaths and promises, as if they're all suspicious wretches unwilling to take the other's word without a page of vows. You can't relate to any of the characters, and their more notable qualities are amplified a hundred times to supernatural proportions. Roran killing one hundred ninety-three men? Isn't that a bit overdoing it? He started his fighting career about three weeks before, and all of a sudden he's an invincible warrior; while Eragon couldn't do that with all his powers and about six times as much experience as Roran, and a magical sword too. unsure Hmm...

The story has potential, but he wasted it.
Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2009, 8:13am

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Atom

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So many fantasy book series', so little time.

Heh. You guys are such nerds. smile
Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2009, 5:15pm

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Terminal Velocity

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Huh?

Depends on what you consider a nerd. There are probably multiple interpretations.
Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2009, 6:06pm

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Atom

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The socially-awkward, fantasy-entranced, multiple-kids-books-series-reading-when-you're-too-old-for-it teenage male.
Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2009, 6:27pm

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Terminal Velocity

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I'll go with socially-uninterested, literature-analytical, will-read-or-play-football teenage male.
Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2009, 7:24pm

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spydurhank

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I'm a nerd. biggrin
Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2009, 8:03pm

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jawajohnny

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I'm the kind of nerd who would skip his prom on May 8th... and go see Star Trek instead. razz

Never got into the fantasy book thing. Besides Harry Potter and LOTR, the only series I've read are The Inheritance Cycle (Eragon, Eldest, Brisingr...) and the Artemis Fowl series. And I'll finish them out too, even though I'm now "too old" for them, because I'd like to find out how they end. And in the first place, I only read them for their movie potential... I plan out all the actors and shots as I'm reading. They'd make awesome movies.

Really, I'm more of a sci-fi/fantasy movie and TV guy. Star Wars, LOTR, Harry Potter, Star Trek, Firefly/Serenity, Terminator: TSCC...
Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2009, 9:10pm

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Today I realized I'm looking so much forward to Star Trek I'm feeling a bit nervous. Almost as if J.J. Abrams himself is having dinner at my place that day.

jawajohnny wrote:

I'm the kind of nerd who would skip his prom on May 8th... and go see Star Trek instead. razz
Skip the prom? I'm exactly the same. I dreaded my prom and decided not to go, only to be begged to go by a female friend (not a gf) because she needed a date. I noticed that day how much better I am at reading books and writing scrips about life, than I am at living it. After 17 years I'm still getting the hang of it. razz At least I'm better at dancing now.
Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2009, 9:24pm

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Terminal Velocity

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I've read LOTR, Artemis Fowl, and Inheritance. The former two are great, the second...okay. I read a lot of historical fiction (Red Badge of Courage, Rifles for Watie), plus books like Lone Survivor. I like scifi as well, SW style and War of the Worlds.

I would definitely skip a prom. And I don't dance. Socially awkward, no. Unsociable, yeah. I prefer video games.

So you could say I'm a nerd.
Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2009, 10:11pm

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I've read LotR, HP, Artemis Fowl, The Inheritance Cycle, The Otori Trilogy, and the surprisingly awesome Young Bond series. All started reading when I was actually a "young adult" and now I'm just finishing them like everyone else here.

Yup I'm a nerd aswell.
Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2009, 1:05am

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Terminal Velocity

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And I am PROUD OF IT! So dwi.

EDIT: But everybody considers me sadistic as well because I love the violence of football.
Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2009, 9:02am

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Atom

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Richard III wrote:

Socially awkward, no. Unsociable, yeah. I prefer video games.
I'd......well I- no..........no, this one pretty much speaks for itself.
Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2009, 7:20pm

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ben3308

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Richard III wrote:

I would definitely skip a prom. And I don't dance.
I know we're still off topic here, but I have to comment on this. You don't just 'skip' prom because you don't dance. It's not about dancing. It's about celebrating the passing into (hopeful) adulthood and moving on from high school. Graduation is the formal ceremony for this, prom I'd say is the informal. It's a rite of passage in American culture, like bar mitzvah in Jewish culture or quince in Mexican. Skip it now and you'll regret it later, looking back on the choices you could've made and the kinds of things you could've done.

Sorry, but don't skip prom, even if you're "that kind of person". If that kind of person = someone who doesn't want to assimilate into society correctly, there's a problem there. Conformity is one extreme thing, proper assimilation (in that you can coexist peacefully and interact appropriately with others) is another. I'm not saying prom is the end-all. But if you're saying this when you're 14, I don't want to see what you're like in 5 years.

I'm going to go ahead and hazard the guess that you're homeschooled, or have been previously, as demonstrated by your attitude towards what most would consider necessary rites of American adolescence.

God, the body politic of FXhome has had a vast paradigm shift in the past 5 years. What used to be the likes of partners in crime ajjax and CX3, smartass Cantaclaro, and the whole Initial Productions crew has fizzled into a bunch of people who wouldn't or aren't even going to go to prom. Christ.
Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2009, 8:50pm

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jawajohnny

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When I was 14 I fully expected to go to prom. I'm perfectly social, but I've developed into a real nerd as well. I would be out of place there, and I don't believe in the whole "right of passage" thing anyway. My friends actually expected me to not go, because they know I'm not into their sort of socializing. I'd rather spend $8 on a movie ticket than all that money to just stand around at a prom. But Richard III, don't say something like that yet. Who knows what you'd do years from now? Ben's right. In most cases, you don't want to miss prom. Hmmm... I'm being hypocritical. razz

Enough of that. Let's make an effort to get back on topic. What do you guys think of the decision to split Deathly Hallows into two films?
Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2009, 8:56pm

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Pooky

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Seriously, guys, it might seem like a good idea right now to spend your days playing video games, not go to prom, make as little friends as possible and assume it'll all be good later... but the thing is, it won't. What do you do when you're in your twenties, have no real friends, and are launched into the real world? You might think it's hip to go against the flow and refuse to socialize, but trust me, YOU WILL REGRET IT. Life and happiness are dependent on society. Now suck it up, stop being scared, and throw yourself into the thick of it.
Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2009, 9:00pm

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Off topic: We'll see. Though some strange instinct tells me I know myself better than you know me. eek And I didn't say dancing was all prom was. Finally: I have plenty of friends. I'm not that unsociable.

On topic: Splitting it might be a good idea if it's a long book. It is, right?
Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2009, 9:05pm

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jawajohnny

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I do socialize, and I have plenty of friends. I'm just choosing not to go to a particular event. razz

Richard III wrote:

Splitting it might be a good idea if it's a long book. It is, right?
It is long, but it's not the longest. Order of the Phoenix was, yet it made the shortest film. There are subplots, characters, and ideas that have been cut from the previous films, because they would interrupt the movie narrative. The idea with the split, is that unlike the previous books, everything that happens in Deathly Hallows is important and can't be cut out. I agree with that assessment, but it's all going to come down to where the split happens.
Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2009, 9:40pm

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Terminal Velocity

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Okay, that makes sense. I would split at a cliffhanger, for those who haven't read the book, just to maintain interest.
Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2009, 11:18pm

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jawajohnny

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That's the other thing. Basically anywhere they split it will be a cliffhanger of some sort... so it's just a matter of choosing the right one. Dan Radcliffe says it's a "tense cliffhanger":

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2009/4/21/dan-radcliffe-says-split-of-movies-for-harry-potter-and-the-deathly-hallows-a-tense-cliffhanger/
Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2009, 11:29pm

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Serpent

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ben3308 wrote:

Richard III wrote:

I would definitely skip a prom. And I don't dance.
I know we're still off topic here, but I have to comment on this. You don't just 'skip' prom because you don't dance. It's not about dancing. It's about celebrating the passing into (hopeful) adulthood and moving on from high school. Graduation is the formal ceremony for this, prom I'd say is the informal. It's a rite of passage in American culture, like bar mitzvah in Jewish culture or quince in Mexican. Skip it now and you'll regret it later, looking back on the choices you could've made and the kinds of things you could've done.
Not everyone loves the people at their high school. A lot of them at mine were tools, and I had plenty of fun with the others outside of bull s**** school events. Personally, I wanted to see what prom was like, and I only skipped mine because I went to another. But some people don't need it. You can't tell what someone is like through their interests (however "nerdy"); and while all we have is Richard III's word, it seems like that's the case here. A lot of people live sad, sheltered lives, and it's depressing to me. That just isn't the case here. People just need to do what makes them happy, make their own friends, and live their own life; not necessarily the life that's expected. That's often even more boring.

Not saying you should become obsessed with video games or anything. Finding a balance is important in EVERYTHING. Video games, alcohol, sports, television; you can be obsessed and become pathetic with a multitude of things.

I just don't know why you are so bothered by this that you target people. You quarrel with new users just as much as you help them with filmmaking tips. smile
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 12:21am

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Terminal Velocity

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Serpent wrote:

You can't tell what someone is like through their interests (however "nerdy")
Not to start splitting hairs, but you can tell part of what they're like. For instance, if they love beating up all living things, then that just might say something. wink

Serpent wrote:

People just need to do what makes them happy, make their own friends, and live their own life; not necessarily the life that's expected.
Which is the crux of what makes teasing retarded and childish. Whatever they do, if it makes them happy, why insult them for it? A bit of humorous banter, okay. But if you're serious, then you're an idiot. (And on a side note: I do not include drugs and torturing small animals: drugs are unhealthy and don't make you "happy" in the real sense; the same with torture.)

Serpent wrote:

you can be obsessed and become pathetic with a multitude of things.
Now you ask; when can you see obsession? When that's all they think about, when they become incapable of anything else? That's what defines obsession to me. Immersion is one thing, but if it becomes your sole goal in life and you can't do anything else, well...that's going a bit far.

Back on topic: I would pick a very obvious cliffhanger, not like (just as an example): "Who had murdered her?". More like: "He was hanging by his fingertips from the cliff."

Note: these are just examples and I have no clue if they were in DH or not.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 12:27am

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jawajohnny

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Hmmm... I just heard they're now going a similar route with The Hobbit. They're going to split that narrative into two films. Before, they were going to make The Hobbit as one, and then follow it up with a "bridge" film leading up to Fellowship of the Ring. It looks like they've scrapped that idea.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 12:31am

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Terminal Velocity

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A bridge film...filling in the time between The Hobbit and LOTR? As in non-canon content? stun They'd better have scrapped it!
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 12:39am

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jawajohnny

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Well, it was going to be about stuff that is mentioned, but not actually seen in The Hobbit, as well as some other existing backstory. Like Gollum going to Mordor, Gandalf attending the white council, and Aragorn patrolling the Shire. But now they're going to incorporate this stuff into the two Hobbit films, instead of making a separate one. So it is canon.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 12:53am

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Terminal Velocity

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Oh, that. Now that sounds cool. And to me it shows how there is almost always more to Tolkien, whether you delve into his philosophy or the literature itself.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 1:49am

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Pooky

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Serpent wrote:

Not everyone loves the people at their high school. A lot of them at mine were tools, and I had plenty of fun with the others outside of bull s**** school events.
Well, yeah, I wholeheartedly agree that there's a lot of douches at these types of events, but the thing is, there's a lot of douches everywhere. Might as well get used to them now, or it'll be harder to deal with them later on. Not to put words in your mouth, but I would actually agree to skipping out on clubs, though. Those places destroy your soul.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 2:07am

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Terminal Velocity

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Pooky wrote:

Serpent wrote:

Not everyone loves the people at their high school. A lot of them at mine were tools, and I had plenty of fun with the others outside of bull s**** school events.
Well, yeah, I wholeheartedly agree that there's a lot of douches at these types of events, but the thing is, there's a lot of douches everywhere. Might as well get used to them now, or it'll be harder to deal with them later on. Not to put words in your mouth, but I would actually agree to skipping out on clubs, though. Those places destroy your soul.
Get used to them; yeah. Freely associate with them even if you don't want to, just to get used to them; no.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 2:37am

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Atom

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I think you're missing the point, Richard III. And to an extent- Serpent is, too. Or, at least, he's not entering the dilemma's solution enough regarding society.

You see, there's one thing going against the grind- but eventually you'll need to have some real friends, as Pooky notes. Additionally, he notes that there are a lot of douches and tools out there- and you'll have to get used to these people as well, even if you don't like them.

But another thing to keep in mind is that it's important to have sociability with these people, even if you don't like them. And, even more importantly, recognize that there are people outside of your core group of friends- however esoteric you may want to be- that aren't douches, that might not agree with you, but that are perfectly fine people altogether. These are also the people who go to prom, not just douches. By purposefully rejecting socializing with someone, all you're doing is becoming what you dislike in the stereotypical 'douche/jerk/asshole/etc'.

I've tended to find the people that classify their entire highschool or forced-social-arena as 'bad people/douches/tools/pricks' with the exception of themselves are generally the types of social pariahs that overanalyze and misjudge people so harshly they're looked at, understandably so, as a prick themselves. And all they're doing is giving the rest of the world the right to do this by ostricizing themselves purposefully. No offense, Serpent, I know this may sound similar to attacking what you commented on- I'm just making a general, blanket statement here.

Always 'waiting to be done with.....' be it high school, middle school, college, or the work environment does you no favors, because you'll always be in one of those situations and social climates your entire life (one main reason I'm a big proponent of public school and generally against homeschooling)- and while you may find some solace in being an outcast or going against the grind- I can guarantee you it'll never be as great or as genuine as that of accepting society and finding your place in it.

Pooky hits the nail on the head on his last few posts, and it's an important lifelong fable to acknowledge. To be ignorant of it is giving the rest of us service to mock you- for you're willingly separating yourself from......well.........the entire world. This is the reason the nerds that swear off society and play D&D all their lives with bitterness for anyone else are usually deeply depressed on the inside- only finding mild contentment and not true happiness in their lives.

Of course, that last part is an assumption based on what I've seen; nothing more. But I doubt it's far from reality. There' a reason people do things traditionally, live a certain way, and interact a conventional style- somewhere in history it became ideal, yielding the greatest amount of happiness, you know?

Now, yeah, maybe I'm not one to talk- I went to a large, public high school where I was fairly popular, I've always generally been a pretty conventional/mainstream person, yeah, and I've always worn the latest polos and 'preppy/fratty' clothing available, socialized extensively in many environments, went to parties, and never really got 'too into' any real esoteric thing, be it videogames or cards or computing or any other classically 'nerdy' event- in fact the nerdiest thing I do is probably post on here. I've no doubt I would still easily fall into Serpent's 'douche/tool' category.

But please still heed my advice, I'm giving it earnestly for your own good; as condescending as that may sound.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 3:29am

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Terminal Velocity

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Thank you for your advice, but I think you're misinterpreting me.

[rant]

Firstly, yes I have been homeschooled all my life, and I just turned fourteen a few days ago. I'm not in highschool yet (though I've finished the freshman curriculum).

Secondly, I am not antisocial. To me, that and unsociable mean very different things. Antisocial meaning that I will not associate with anyone and meet any attempts at friendship with a glare and a growl. Unsociable, however, meaning that I am happy in my circle of friends and don't feel a need to go out and chat and interact with people I don't know. I can make friendships, but slowly. Very slowly. Most of my friends are made at football. When you're trying to kill them. Ironic, but two people who enjoy frenzied combat might very well like each other. I think that's how I am. I like people I can admire for one reason or another, not just any dude who happens to be popular. Plus, my jinx to more or less buck the trend. I'll be polite, but I'm not that outgoing and not that affected by what people do or don't think is "cool" or "dumb" about me. Basically, I wouldn't not go to the prom because I don't like those people. I wouldn't go because I don't see the point. Maybe later but certainly not now.

I don't judge people until I have actually seen that they are annoying jerks and I am very aware of my faults, even on these forums though you might not know it from my behavior. Very often, I post before thinking and wince at my own idiocy afterwards. Only, I don't have the humility to admit it when you or others show me up as an idiot. And very often, I can't see what is so bad about them that obviously annoys everyone else. But the problem is that the image my posts project is pretty one-sided: abrasive and annoying retard who couldn't say anything helpful. The fact is that I have my weaknesses and my strengths, and one of my strengths happens to be religion. Which is not allowed. Therefore the only part of me anyone sees is...well...Richard III the stupid new guy.

I judge people based on how they act. I like to single out a person and analyze him. For instance, you Atom. My first impression (said to be made in the first seven seconds of interaction) was as an annoying self-proclaimed genius who didn't do anything but attack n00bs. Later I realized that you are actually trying to help us be more useful in this community by ironing out our faults with a very hot iron, so to speak. Rubbing out the ridges with coarse sandpaper. Many rash judgments I have made in the past have led me to judge people more carefully and to give the benefit of the doubt.

[/rant]

EDIT: Anybody know when The Hobbit's coming out?
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 4:26am

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Serpent

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Richard III wrote:

Serpent wrote:

You can't tell what someone is like through their interests (however "nerdy")
Not to start splitting hairs, but you can tell part of what they're like. For instance, if they love beating up all living things, then that just might say something. wink
I meant on a forum. It's hard to tell what someone is like behind the curtain when you're on a forum. I have no idea what most of you are like in person, only vague ideas of some when they express themselves on the forum, in videos, etc.


Serpent wrote:

People just need to do what makes them happy, make their own friends, and live their own life; not necessarily the life that's expected.
Which is the crux of what makes teasing retarded and childish.
Well, that's not the context I meant it in. I meant legitimate forms of entertainment, like video games. I'm just saying, people should be able to do what they please. We live in a judgmental society. I was just speaking generally on that one though, not retorting ben, so I'm not implying he's judgmental, that would be judgmental. smile


Serpent wrote:

you can be obsessed and become pathetic with a multitude of things.
Now you ask; when can you see obsession?
I'd say there's no fine line, but whenever it gets to the point where it causes you to become someone you don't want to be. You have to decide you want to be and find a balance. That'd just be obsession in my words, I guess, in regards to this.


EDIT: Anybody know when The Hobbit's coming out?
Google it, man. No one cares if it's on topic anymore, we're 8 pages in. Not saying stop talking about Harry Potter, that's what this is for (though a new discussion arose), but you don't have to stay on topic. Though if you legitimately lacked the power of Google, it comes out in 2012, supposedly. Schwing:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0903624/


Atom wrote:

I think you're missing the point, Richard III. And to an extent- Serpent is, too.

...
I'm not missing the point, I'm just commenting on prom in general. Not necessarily trying to jump in. You missed my point, I suppose. But I'll comment on some of your responses to my post anyways, because you created implications, however general an impersonal they were meant to be, and yet you weren't in my shoes. A lot of people at my school were rich, spoiled, ass holes who did over-the-top, what you see on tv, typical jock s****. Not to me, not even necessarily to people all the time; I just didn't associate with them. Some people are bad people, and I hope some of these kids don't turn out to be, but they ruin it for everyone sometimes. School events were just simply not as important to a lot of people. But anyways, a lot of people at my school just had fun outside of school. Not every school is exactly like yours. People at my school find me nice. I was the quiet kid who was only in honors/AP classes, and in the other bs classes I just slept, because I chose to. Outside of school, I would hang out with my friends, and socialize with other people in school, at tennis practice, and at misc events, like parties. I'm nice to people, and a lot of people at my school were really nice. I just didn't really associate with them. I just stuck to the people that surrounded my "group." It was very cliquey, yeah, but high school is. Not everyone works well with others, and often people will pass judgment and not get to know someone. I'm not like that. Stop taking people's posts, and making these implications about them. I realize it actually IS offensive, because why should I have to worry about every thing I say? You're I'm not being offensive--or not trying to anyways--I'm just not necessarily elaborating.

Re-read my post, I wasn't being offensive to you at all. Why did you just imply that I was a prick in high school? Here we're all pricks. I'm a prick. I don't really think when I write as much as I should, I certainly haven't mastered the art of expressing myself in on discussions (though I feel like I've improved a lot). But that response was somewhat uncalled for. You may have said it was general, but it was all in response to a fairly unobtrusive post where I expressed my opinion. Just stop picking apart posts so much, it's annoying when it can be so easily publicly done. I don't want the idea of prick being associated with me at all for what I said, don't think it's warranted.

And Atom, yeah, maybe you would be under that category in my eyes. I don't know you very well and how you are in person, but I find it funny you are posting this just after you posted all that stuff about you being the sole pillar of this very forum.

You can't say "a lot of people who say things you do are pricks. No offense to you or anything, just sayin'." for no reason at all.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 5:50am

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Atom

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Uncalled for? Hardly. I think you're misreading what I wrote, Serp. I'm not trying to pick out your response and deduce it to being 'that prickish outsider'- that's the very reason I added a sidenote that the scenario I outlined wasn't meant to be directly about what you mentioned, that it was coincidentally similar.

I see no reason to get a -1 for that, I'm just trying to caution people- especially younger people- the way I always have. Not in a condescending way, not to insult them- I don't mean to insult Richard II, and I hope he knows that. But I was taught a lot of life lessons in this very place after spouting very similar things and I was given the same kind of fabled talks from canta and CX3 that I'm taking on the burden of saying now.

If some people think I'm being a douche for it, so be it. That's the sacrifice. But I don't want you to mistake me for attacking what you're saying or trying to throw you into a category- it surely is not my intention, Serp. And don't act like you don't know me, old friend. You know I'm that douchey kid in school- but I've grown humble in real life mostly due to my lack of wealth in comparison to others and the contrasting, sometimes scary neighborhood I've come from. I don't hate those other kids for their ostentatiousness, though, but it's an understandable reaction. I guess a large difference is in how outgoing you are. You know, as everyone else does, I'm never short on words- here or in social interactions.

And Richard III: I don't mean to attack homeschool, but I largely believe school interaction with kids, and largely high school, is an important tenant of society and a rite-of-passage that is crucial. It segues you from adolescence to the real world, I think, and I'm only saying that because I've had experience going through it and have seen some of my old friends become social pariahs through lack of this experience. I'm a firm believer in public school, on this I won't budge. If homeschool works for you, great. I don't mean to insult you in any way for it, I just disagree with it.

Hopefully I'm better understood to both of you guys having said this.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 7:28am

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Sollthar

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Removed a lot of the -1's. Can people please stop throwing them away so easily? Seeing the whole debate is off topic and there's little posts that are calling someone names or are completely redundant.

Thanks.

Oh, and there's plenty of reason to skip social events. I skipped my diploma party because everyone ended up being drunk, as usual, and I chose to rather keep my class in good memory, I find drunk people incredibly annoying. It had zero impact on my number of friends or the respect I had from them or anyone else.

Personally, I prefer a handful of true friends I can always count on versus a large army of collegues. Though I've been fortunate to have both.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 7:49am

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Atom

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Same here on that last point, Solly.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 9:35am

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Serpent

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Atom, relook over your post, seriously. The ONE paragraph regarding me was this:


"I've tended to find the people that classify their entire highschool or forced-social-arena as 'bad people/douches/tools/pricks' with the exception of themselves are generally the types of social pariahs that overanalyze and misjudge people so harshly they're looked at, understandably so, as a prick themselves. And all they're doing is giving the rest of the world the right to do this by ostricizing themselves purposefully. No offense, Serpent, I know this may sound similar to attacking what you commented on- I'm just making a general, blanket statement here."

That makes me look like a prick. I don't care if I misunderstood you, it's easily misunderstood, don't do that to me on a public forum when I didn't say anything against you or anything of the sort. There's just no reason to make a statement like that in response to something I said that was so clearly topical and not part of your discussion. It's rude to me, because I'm not like that, and that comment seemed to represent me. I am using the -1 to how I feel the system should be used, I advise skipping that post for that reason. Though even if you don't mean it, it would have been a whole lot easier for you to just say "hey Serpent, sorry I came off that way to you, won't happen again, we coo'?". Right? You're just making me type out a response, you made assumptions about the -1, you ignored some of the things I said.

If you aren't going to end it here, we can work it out in PMs, just hit me up.

Sollthar wrote:

Removed a lot of the -1's. Can people please stop throwing them away so easily? Seeing the whole debate is off topic and there's little posts that are calling someone names or are completely redundant.

Thanks.
Er, that was uncalled for, you didn't even hear my side of it... I felt publicly insulted, even if not blatantly, and I have every right to put a -1 on that post. I actually feel like I want it back. wink
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 9:49am

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Atom

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Serpent wrote:

"No offense, Serpent, I know this may sound similar to attacking what you commented on- I'm just making a general, blanket statement here."
Did you completely miss this part? You've double-quoted it, essentially now. I don't mean to argue semantics, but come on. I clearly, specifically exempted you/didn't target you in my statement- a statement I felt was important to draw a distinction in.

Serpent wrote:

it would have been a whole lot easier for you to just say "hey Serpent, sorry I came off that way to you, won't happen again, we coo'?".
Once more, I basically said this same thing in my initial post, quoted above, man.

No, I don't really agree with the things you've said on society/life in this thread; but I've no reason to insult or attack you on it. And I'd like to hope I haven't. If you do the things I outline in my post, and that inadvertently calls you a prick, that's something you'll have to console yourself on- because I'm not trying to highlight you as that kind of person. But I believe there are those kind of people and I think, largely, those people bring it on themselves- or miscommunications and misconceptions that are nobody's fault do.

I think Sollthar outlined something very real- people can still be your acquaintances, your friends, and you still disagree with them in certain outings without ostracizing yourself or having to title others as 'douches', even if they are sometimes. Trying to make a grudge out of something that isn't there- in high school, society, or even here with you and me- is superfluous and silly.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 2:20pm

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Sollthar

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Serpent wrote:

Er, that was uncalled for, you didn't even hear my side of it...
Sorry, you're welcome to write your side per pm if you'd like.
I didn't see anything in either post that would warrant the rating. But I haven't noticed the use of the word "prick" when I skimmed through the post, now having seen it, it actually would comply with the rating guidelines (use of language eg calling people names).

So if you feel like giving it back, I'll leave it this time. smile
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 3:32pm

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Atom

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Are you kidding me? I made a generalized statement- Serpent openly insulted and name-called damn near everyone in his high school.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 3:52pm

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Terminal Velocity

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Guys, it doesn't matter. Nobody intended to be insulting one way or the other, so there's no need to argue over it. I may sound like I'm trying to be a mod again, but the fact is that it doesn't really matter.

Homeschool or highschool: I think it's a matter of opinion. I'm going into highschool this year, so I'll have my chance to socially interact if I feel like it. That's a big if.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 4:45pm

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Serpent

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Atom wrote:

Are you kidding me? I made a generalized statement- Serpent openly insulted and name-called damn near everyone in his high school.
Atom! I'm not calling you a bad person, and I'm not mad at you. I'm just saying don't do that and involve me! Who cares who meant what? To me, it's about what the rest of the forum might perceive it as. I feel like if they read what you said in regards to what I said, it would make me look like a prick. And regardless of all that, I did make a generalization about "tools." A lot of people are tools, and need to grow up and learn how to act in society. I just feel like you keep missing that part of my post, or choose to only discuss "what you meant"
(which, again, is irrelevant here). And what do you care what I think of kids from my high school? It's simple: I believe a lot of them were tools and need to grow up. Not saying they are bad people, or that I'm better than any of them. I hope you were kidding on that comment, or you actually just keep missing that point in my posts.

That's all, stop going back and forth.

And Richard III, stay out of this. Don't say "it doesn't matter." To me, this matters. Do you know what doesn't matter? Harry Potter. (I'm kidding.) If you sound like you're trying to be mod again, stop yourself. Stay in your own discussions, let the mods work out others. Me and Atom are working this out, and I offered to take this to PMs. You are acting like a mod, but you aren't a very experienced one (no offense meant, I'm not either).

And thanks for being understanding Sollthar. But I'll leave it ratingless, because someone seems to care. wink
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 5:41pm

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Atom

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Serpent wrote:

But I'll leave it ratingless, because someone seems to care. wink
And you say you don't know me...
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 5:55pm

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ben3308

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Richard III wrote:

I'm going into highschool this year, so I'll have my chance to socially interact if I feel like it. That's a big if.
Not to be tangential to the already tangent topic at hand, but this is great news!

I'd say that just as America was a cultural melting pot for immigrating foreigners early and mid-20th centry, so is highschool for any teenager that qualifies for the American school system. I'd say that as long as you have your own friends pre-highschool, you should be pretty well off. Things will probably be tough, and you might be ostracized in the beginning, but take it in stride and do what you can to succeed.

I find a lot of people who give up on American public high school for one of several reasons, and it's never worth it - most have ended up socially or emotionally damaged as a result. Some friends I know left to pursue a private education, and became more introverted and elitist. Others left school completely, considering the system a 'waste of time' and homeschooled just to get out of having to continue going to a campus on a day-to-day basis. These kids were forced, inevitably, to either 'grow up' too quickly or not at all, and therein weren't prepared for a college environment, which is the transition in my opinion, between those stages (so they don't attend college now).

Why am I saying this? I'm saying this because, once you enter highschool, you may be tempted to 'give up' and go back to homeschool. Don't. Trust me, it's worth it to properly assimilate in the long run. You'll meet so many more people and likely be more receptive to the attitudes and ideals of others. My brother and I went to very different highschools, and are different people as a result. But because we both went to substantially large, normal schools (with mine being more pared down in curriculum) we became more cultured, more outgoing individuals - something that, at least for me, has helped me to trascend most 'cliques' that you'd normally see.

I know you're not there now, but just don't give up on communal school.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 6:17pm

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Thrawn

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Ben, while I agree to a certain extent, I don't believe that it's "Public school" that makes a person socially (or in any way) regular. I think interacting with people on a daily basis, both friends and those who aren't friends, is key, but not "public school" in general. The most anti-social kids I've ever known have come out of public school. Sure, public schools provide an oppurtunity to interact with a variation of people on a daily basis, but like I said, it's not the only way to a regular social life.

Secondly, I'd say you're generalizing a lot when it comes to homeschooling. I mean, sure, 60% of homeschoolers I know meet the steriotype people imagine, but there are a lot of homeschoolers that are plenty social, have a ton of friends, and have the ability to "act" like a normal teenager.

In conclusion, I think that it has a lot to do with the student himself. It's all up to him whether he wants to socialize or not, and while I'm sure public schools provide more pressure to do so, it's ultimately up to the person.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 6:24pm

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Sollthar wrote:

Oh, and there's plenty of reason to skip social events. I skipped my diploma party because everyone ended up being drunk, as usual, and I chose to rather keep my class in good memory, I find drunk people incredibly annoying. It had zero impact on my number of friends or the respect I had from them or anyone else.

Personally, I prefer a handful of true friends I can always count on versus a large army of collegues. Though I've been fortunate to have both.
This.

Everything you just said sums up my stand on social events (involving alcohol) and friends. I have a few really good friends and quite a few people I get along well with even though we don't know each other well. This comes from me being an good conversationalist and socializing with the right people.

I don't drink so at parties I stay as uptight as I always am (that's pretty uptight) while everyone else is wobbling around in an intoxicated state. My friends respect my lack of enjoying drinking (a party to me is gathering my film-buff friends and watching something loud and full of explosions), but if you show up to these parties you sit there and endure everyone saying: "Come on, have a beer! Loosen up!" until they are so drunk they forget you're even there, so I find it better to stay home and post on forums about how I don't go to parties. razz I have no problem talking to people and making friends, but I feel I'm better off staying home than ending up as the guy sitting alone and sober bored out of his head. Also people take a lot of inappropriate pics at these events and put them on Facebook the next day and I don't like where that leads at all.

EDIT: Just to make it clear in case it looks like I'm saying: "If you don't drink: ditch parties" (which it does look like I'm saying), I'll ad that I do occasionally turn up to a party for a number of reasons: To get out of my comfort zone, to show my friends that I'm capable of interacting with them at events as well, to learn how to behave at parties particularly around alcohol as I have a feeling this is an important skill at university where everyone is of age, and because even with the long rambling post above about the downsides to partying it can be fun.

Last edited Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 6:36pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 6:32pm

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Atom

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I'm not so certain I agree with that, Thrawn. You see, I can say it's up to me whether I want to scuba dive for the rest of my life or not; but if I'm not near the ocean I'm pretty much giving myself the answer right there. 'Socialize' is such a curious word. Why? Because half the fun, necessity, and importance to intermingling in a school is the whole chance nature of it. I didn't go into high school looking to specifically 'socialize' with any specific people- it was chance encounters- that I've no doubt I could've only got in that environment- that laid the groudwork for some of my best and strongest friendships.

It's pretty basic logic- public high school mimics adult society/work, purposefully. The same simply can't be true for homeschooling because, while they may be scheduled social interactions, you're not really thrown into it the way you are with public (or private, I just mean non-homeschool) school. And, another rather obvious reason- while a homeschool kid may have a ton of friends, where's he/she really hanging out or seeing those friends?

People can give me this 'oh, we hang out after school' crap all they want, but I know with damn near certainty the majority of teenagers, myself included, did the majority of our hanging out, conversing, or being friendly in school, during school hours.

I'm sure Ben doesn't mean to insult you, Thrawn, or anyone else. But we've seen far, far too many homeschool kids end up the stereotype- as I'm certain a large majority do- and have also seen first-hand how public high school has overwhelming helped us transition, prepare, and capitalize on society that we now see in college and in the business/adult world. This is the reason, for me at least, that I'm such a big proponent of public education and such a condemner of homeschooling.

It also, appears to me, misleading. The first thing I hear out of kids in homeschool is "I'm on ++++++ advanced curriculum". While I believe a lot more attention can be put on studies- I think peer comparisons are vital to really grounding these claims. I had a girl, nice but shy, in a few of my courses a few years ago in high school who cavalierly treated everything like a breeze because she was "studying at a senior level" already- she made terrible grades in-comparison to others, myself included, and crushed under the disappointment, failure, and pressure of the environment. I felt bad for her, but I generally believe it was the harsh step from homeschool to public school that caused this.

I can only imagine, logically, it's much more drastic, harder to cope with, and generally worse for those going from this straight into the business world, college, or adult life. Why? Because you're taking someone out of a conditioned, controlled environment and putting them out of their element into the chaotic mess we call life. Not to sound condescending, honestly, but it's like putting a panda raised in captivity into the wild: earlier, sure, I think it's fine to raise that animal- care for it with control- but there's a tipping point where you have to face reality and let them go. If you wait, you're keeping them in that environment too long, making the switch to the wild too hard. For anybody or any creature for that matter.

So, I believe, is the issue with homeschooling. I'm not entirely against it, no, but I believe it's essential to get out of before high school; because I believe high school to be an essential, necessary step in life. (And let me remind you of this: I'm not just talking about the classic, sports-fueled, average 'you-see-in-the-movies' high school like the one I went to; I'm talking about all high schools, all types. There are several, after all.)
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 6:43pm

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Serpent

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Thrawn, +1, on your point about social situations, just thought I'd point it out because I also agree with ben's post and didn't want my +1 to make him feel left out, as the rating system seems to do. Not saying he would, but I'm starting to get a different viewpoint of the rating system as of late, I'll make a topic about it after finals if it still bothers me. It's a great idea, but I feel like people would still contribute without it. I doubt -1's hold off too many spammers, not too many people care. I used to care, and that's why I think it should just be gone. People don't like receiving hate without explanation. That's what a forum should be, discussion. Not private attacking, which is how some people take it.

Thrawn wrote:

In conclusion, I think that it has a lot to do with the student himself. It's all up to him whether he wants to socialize or not, and while I'm sure public schools provide more pressure to do so, it's ultimately up to the person.
It also unfortunately has a lot to do with the teacher when it comes to homeschooling. I'm just assuming, but your parents may have provided you with opportunities to socialize. I'm not saying you aren't an independent person, but fact is, if you don't interact with people in general, you aren't going to know how to. It's up to you from there, really, unless you (not you, but people), stay a mama's boy your whole life, of something of the sort. Of course, I'm sure there are a handful of mama's boys who make it by fine in the world. Who am I to say it's wrong to be a mama's boy? So long as you're truly happy.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 7:07pm

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Without quoting your entire post Atom I agree with what you say.

My parents put me in kindergarten when I was 5 for that very reason. The harsh change from being the most important thing in my parents life, to being a newcomer in this place full of jerks who hadn't been brought up (this is not an overstatement, in later years I talked to my Mom about some of the other kids and she told me stories their parents had told her, and some of those children had been through their parents very bad breakups at ages of 4-5 and had been very scarred by it. This they loved to take out on children like me.) is an experience I'll remember for the rest of my life. Kindergarten is the one time in my childhood no matter how I look at it I can't make any charming nostalgia out of it (expect coming home and watching TNG with my bro and Mom. Looks like I was gonna be a nerd already back then). I believe waiting for 1st year had served me better as my 1st year crowd was much better and kindergarten left me scarred for years. Still I agree with you Atom because if I'd never left the nest (be it kindergarten, 1st year or 2nd year), I'd probably be ripped to shreds at university or even worse: at my workplace. I think you are right in saying that learning how to work among people (whom you like and dislike) is an invaluable life lesson unless you intend to spend your life hiding from society in a Buddhist Temple (believe me, I've considered it razz ).
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 7:12pm

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Sollthar

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Heh, I know exactly what you mean Staff only... smile

If you show up to these parties you sit there and endure everyone saying: "Come on, have a beer! Loosen up!"
I used to get that from some people, but rather quickly, they just accepted me that way and most respected my stand. Respect is something I always had. Everyone knew I was "different" in some areas then mainstream, but fortunately, it was in a positive sense. I've never been bullied for it or ridiculed or anything, rather respected. I've also never been considered "cool" and never tried to be. I always had my own way of doing things.
But not drinking/smoking/going to parties/discos/bars makes you a social outcast in some ways, as you don't share something most people spend a large percentage of their free time with, at least here. And I do none of the above.
My idea of an ideal social evening is meeting up with friends, having good food, Ice Tea to go with it and an interesting, usually highly philosophical, debate about anything (mostly religion, politics, ethics, science and films, or a combination). It's been that way since primary school really.

The common "partying" has never been for me and will never be, independent of my age. I'm also incredibly bad at small-talk since I'm way too honest, direct and according to everyone, "challenging" in debates.
If a conversation doesn't interest me, it usually doesn't take me long to either say or do something incredibly awkward, giggle about the whole situation and wander off. That never helped at parties. smile
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 7:22pm

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Terminal Velocity

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Funny. Seems like everyone on these forums is, to a certain extent, a nerd. cool

I don't do that well at parties, except with relatives, and certainly not with people I don't know that well. I'm not awkward, but I start staring around feeling like my head is a tank turret; ready to deliver something unpleasant to anyone trying to socialize. I don't like how that is, but I don't dislike it either. The fact is, I don't break any rules, so just deal with it and don't try to start a chat. Hence, I prefer to stay at home and fool around with effects and video games. I have no idea how I'll do in highschool with all these kids I've never met before. I won't be torn apart, but I don't know if I'll exactly be popular either.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 7:27pm

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Viking

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Richard III wrote:

Funny. Seems like everyone on these forums is, to a certain extent, a nerd. cool

I don't do that well at parties, except with relatives, and certainly not with people I don't know that well. I'm not awkward, but I start staring around feeling like my head is a tank turret; ready to deliver something unpleasant to anyone trying to socialize. I don't like how that is, but I don't dislike it either. The fact is, I don't break any rules, so just deal with it and don't try to start a chat. Hence, I prefer to stay at home and fool around with effects and video games. I have no idea how I'll do in highschool with all these kids I've never met before. I won't be torn apart, but I don't know if I'll exactly be popular either.
Just watch the movie The Breakfast Club and you'll do fine....lol
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 7:35pm

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Serpent

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I'm an extreme introvert, and only socialize with people I've gotten to know and can relate to. I get that "pass him a beer" feeling all the time, now that I am forced to do those things every now and then with people I don't know, or know that well. I'm just the kind of person who would rather let my friend group grow slowly. I don't mean offense to people I am quiet to at all, most people just aren't that interesting to talk to because they are just making small talk to be sociable. It's a sick cycle, "those people" hate it just as much as I do. It takes time to get to know people, sometimes getting there sucks. There are things I like to do "out," but the small talk drinking thing isn't one of them, I have to be doing something. I don't even like talking to my closest friends in many of these situations. Sometimes you have to do it to get ahead, that's stuff I'm not looking forward to later in life. smile

This is an interesting topic, I'm relating more to people here because they are talking about themselves. On a forum, it takes a lot longer to get to know people, and you never really will. Not to sound cheesy.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 7:44pm

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Sollthar

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On a forum, it takes a lot longer to get to know people, and you never really will.
I'd disagree actually, at least for me. I have a lot of friends who I met online, either in forums or on chat. Most of them, I've personally met by now and none of them was different in person then I imagined them to be from the forums or the chat.
I'd say, you can tell a lot about a person even just by looking at what they write. At least, I've never been wrong with reading personal subtext on anyone I've actually met in person, which are a lot.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 8:13pm

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Atom

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Richard III wrote:

I don't do that well at parties, except with relatives
I......don't........think we're talking about the same kind of parties. smile

I'm not awkward, but I start staring around feeling like my head is a tank turret; ready to deliver something unpleasant to anyone trying to socialize. I don't like how that is, but I don't dislike it either. The fact is, I don't break any rules, so just deal with it and don't try to start a chat. Hence, I prefer to stay at home and fool around with effects and video games. I have no idea how I'll do in highschool with all these kids I've never met before. I won't be torn apart, but I don't know if I'll exactly be popular either.
I'm not going to lie to you, Richard III, but that sounds pretty antisocial/awkward and kind of, sadly, pathetic. I absolutely don't mean to insult you on this, though, some people just have a tendency to be more introverted. But I absolutely congratulate and praise you for being willing to take a leap into the high school world- even though it's very necessary, it is nonetheless also very brave of a thing to do for someone like how you describe yourself- and I wish you the very best and applaud you for it.

I'm rather sick of this 'whatever makes you happy' mantra. It sounds entirely like unrealistic bullshitt to me, I'm sorry. Very self-centered. I'm in no way a pessimist, I believe pursuing a passion and happiness is an integral and important piece of life- but it isn't everything. A lot of life is sacrificing to do what makes others happy, or at least offers majority contentment; the status quo. I'm entirely for this instead.

When people only do what makes them happy, and are entirely introverted in doing so, I think there's a lot of missed opportunities, friendships, and happiness for others in that choice. Like I said with someone playing D&D all their life alone. Sure, they may feel 'happy', but I've no doubt that 'happiness' is more like back-burner contentment in comparison to what they could have if they take a leap of faith into society- the way Richard III is doing.

I commend that, but I also say acknowledge your issues/faults and awkward or nervousness. I'm not claiming to be the coolest guy in town, because I had some difficult weeks when I first entered my high school- but I made an active effort not to be awkward, introverted (although, I've never been shy of 'outgoing' really), and not to let my nerves get the best of me- and I built relationships, became fairly popular, and in retrospect extremely happy with great memories because of it.

That's all I'm saying; that's the reason I'm kinda shaky with some of what Serpent is saying. I don't dislike or think less of him for his choices, views, or style on it all; but I don't quite agree with him either.

Now, please, can CX3 please return and throw some 'no nonsense, brutally-honest/funny/cool life lessons' on society/parties/school/life like he used to. For everyone's sake, come on.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 9:12pm

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Terminal Velocity

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Atom wrote:

But I absolutely congratulate and praise you for being willing to take a leap into the high school world...
But you shouldn't. The thing is that I simply don't care. You can put me in almost any environment and I'll make the best out of it, though obviously there are situations I like more than others. I'm going into highschool because it's necessary, and I'll see whether or not I like it. Right now, I'm trusting my parents that it's the best thing for me to do, and my own personal preferences will be decided after I've been there for a while.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 9:37pm

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Serpent

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I urge you to read every word of my post. Then read it again if parts of it make you irrational or something. I know you didn't retort, but I just can't believe that no matter what I do, I literally can't get my point to reach you. Or if it did, you are completely ignoring it and aren't being understanding at all. I don't mind the little prick things you say that we all say or any disagreements we've ever had, but you just aren't considering my feelings.

Atom wrote:

That's all I'm saying; that's the reason I'm kinda shaky with some of what Serpent is saying. I don't dislike or think less of him for his choices, views, or style on it all; but I don't quite agree with him either.
I think we DO agree here, and you are missing my point, actually. What exactly are we disagreeing on? You may have taken some of the things I said as over generalizations, but they were generalizations about my experience. I'm sure your prom was awesome for you, and you had a great time with all your friends. But in my area, prom wasn't an appealing event. And it isn't everywhere. Not every place is the same even in that sense, even within America.

No offense meant, but you need to read my words more thoughtfully. It's tiring having to explain myself to you a lot of the time, in these kinds of discussions. It bothers me that you think we disagree, when I've explained myself, and don't necessarily disagree with you, I just think your view of my view of prom, is extremely narrow in this discussion. I had to bring this up, because any time I get involved in serious conversation, you're never far behind. It's overwhelming sometimes. Be an ass all you want, I don't care what you do, I won't judge. But don't call me out like you did and keep up this bs stuff. If you do call me out, even on accident if you didn't mean it, just say sorry and move on. I'd do the same for you. I like you guys, but these quarrels help me grow, they certainly don't bring us closer, so don't think just because we have this fun history of quarreling that you can do that.

No matter what I said there, how prickish I came off, I urge that you see what I was trying to say an not just hit the reply button, and start ranting, because I feel like it's a problem between us that can be worked out.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 10:53pm

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Atom

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Serpent wrote:

But don't call me out like you did and keep up this bs stuff. If you do call me out, even on accident if you didn't mean it, just say sorry and move on. I'd do the same for you. I like you guys, but these quarrels help me grow, they certainly don't bring us closer, so don't think just because we have this fun history of quarreling that you can do that.

No matter what I said there, how prickish I came off, I urge that you see what I was trying to say an not just hit the reply button, and start ranting, because I feel like it's a problem between us that can be worked out.
I think you mistake me for someone who's just throwing back replies rapid-fire. Surely the length and thought in my posts would say otherwise, no? I've read what you've written- but my remarks extended past the issue of 'prom'- certainly and obviously the experience varies; but the conversation deepened much further than that, and so I moved my replies to align with the current topic. I think we disagree, socially, on how things run within our lives/philosophies- I'm not saying we don't acknowledge the same requirements of socializing in life; I think that's very clear that we both do.

Where I disagree is in how you classify certain thing, like small talk for example, as mere mundane bullshitt. I don't think it is. We may both agree that it is necessary at times in life, and inevitable, but I'm not disagreeing with that fact.

The issue that you seem to, ironically I suppose, have taken personally- I didn't call you out on. I'll be stubborn on this point- I made a very specific notion to say I meant no offense to you, personally, right from the get-go. I'm sorry if you see it that way, and if you feel like you're getting called out. But not was my intention nor, really, how it came out. But if you read it a certain way, I apologize.

Don't think that makes the rest of what I'm saying 'bs'. It doesn't. I'm not trying to talk semantics or dissect the 'calling out', I'm commenting on what I think would be helpful, primarily, to the likes of Roger III. Surely that's clear. It was mere coincidence that the issue of 'people calling everyone but themselves in their school douches' that I tried to touch on- to extend the conversation in regards to being antisocial, etc. happened to be after your post that said that very same thing. I tend to think, logically, those kind of people are pricks. Now, no, you do not come off to me as prickish- and I'd never directly or indirectly try and infer you are. I thought, with a disclaimer, you wouldn't think I was calling you out. I guess it just made it worse, at least in your mind. So, sorry.
Posted: Wed, 29th Apr 2009, 11:04pm

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jawajohnny

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Can we please just talk about Harry Potter? Or at least something in the general movie/book realm? All our philosophical differences are making my head hurt. smile
Posted: Thu, 30th Apr 2009, 12:52am

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Terminal Velocity

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jawajohnny wrote:

Can we please just talk about Harry Potter? Or at least something in the general movie/book realm? All our philosophical differences are making my head hurt. smile
I like philosophical differences, but movie/book realm discussions are definitely more lighthearted. Harry Potter, I think, is exhausted though.

You go first.
Posted: Thu, 30th Apr 2009, 1:37am

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jawajohnny

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Alright then. smile

We may have already talked about this before, but what do you guys think about them adding a scene that completely wasn't in the book? They've added a scene where Death Eaters attack the Weaseley house, while everyone's there for the holiday. I can see why they did it... they probably needed an exciting scene to break up some of the dryer parts in the middle of the film. From what we've seen in the trailers, it looks great. I personally don't have a problem with them doing something like that, if it's beneficial to the flow of the film. Any book "purists" disagree?
Posted: Thu, 30th Apr 2009, 4:44am

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Evman

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Sorry to veer this off topic again, but I kinda lost track of this discussion and thought I'd add a very important thing to consider.

Richard III, what do you want to do when you grow up? Do you want to pursue filmmaking by any chance, if that's why you're on this forum?

I'm at NYU now for film, and the most essential thing I've learned so far is how to open up to people. Coming from being a fairly reserved person around new people, it's become a rather essential skill to be personable and become friendly with people.

ESPECIALLY the douchebags. Like it or not, they are the loudest, and end up making the most connections. In an industry entirely dependent on who you know, it really doesn't pay to be a quieter person. Sure, you can pull it off, if you're stuff is REALLY REALLY good, but even then it's incredibly difficult.

Film is a communal process, and if you can't participate, you'll be left in the dust.



Of course this is true to a certain extent for all professions, and just life in general. I know plenty of people who skipped prom and just generally didn't do those sorts of things. I know where they are now, and I feel sorry for them. They hardly have any friends, and generally lead lives that they claim valiantly they love, but it is painfully obvious that they don't.

I'm just trying to help persuade anyone here who doesn't want to go to certain things or do certain things because they're not social.

Get used to it. The world is a social place. The sooner you understand that, and the sooner you can relate to it, the better off you'll be. Emotionally, economically, etc.

I just can't stress this enough. I was kind of in your position 5 years ago. I was so wrong then. Just a friendly heads up... wink
Posted: Thu, 30th Apr 2009, 5:36am

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Atom

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So, are you saying, I was right 5 years ago regarding a very similar conversation, Evman? wink
Posted: Thu, 30th Apr 2009, 5:50am

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Evman

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Atom wrote:

So, are you saying, I was right 5 years ago regarding a very similar conversation, Evman? wink
Speaking of douchebags... wink

What in the hell conversation are you talking about?
Posted: Thu, 30th Apr 2009, 6:03am

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Staff Only

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jawajohnny wrote:

From what we've seen in the trailers, it looks great. I personally don't have a problem with them doing something like that, if it's beneficial to the flow of the film. Any book "purists" disagree?
I will have to wait and see. I was a bit: eek when I saw they were blowing up The Burrow completely in the new trailer. Also for some reason they added in OotP that Witches and Wizards can make them selves into flying phantom smoke monsters (like in LOST). This seems to be used extensively in the opening bridge scene, and also in the attack on The Burrow. I can only say that this is the first film I'll go into the theater entirely focused on the movie as an adaptation, not as the book on film (I will at least try).

Any thoughts on Hooper returning to score? I personally thought his OotP score was hit and miss. The Umbridge theme was awesome, so was the fight in the ministry music, but I didn't like the Weasley's flight to freedom track as much. Also I was a bit disappointed that they used some other track in the credits than Williams' Harry's Wondrous World which to me is like changing the credits music in Star Wars (I know Cuaron did it first).

Also anyone as happy as I am that Williams is back for Deathly Hallows Part 1 and 2?
Posted: Thu, 30th Apr 2009, 6:45am

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ben3308

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jawajohnny wrote:

they probably needed an exciting scene to break up some of the dryer parts in the middle of the film.
Why break these up? In the book, when they set the heat incorrectly, and everyones' clothes shrank, I was literally on the edge of my seat. I suppose you could call me a 'fan' of the dryer parts.
Posted: Thu, 30th Apr 2009, 2:30pm

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Serpent

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This post ends it, sorry the topic has some fluff in it, but that's what happens when you reach page 11.

Atom, to be honest, I was just hoping (not expecting, don't get me wrong) to see an apology from you about how it made me feel put on the spot, as a friend. That's why I keep carrying this on. I'm sorry I took it so personally, and cared so much. But I just felt like you weren't reading what I was trying to say, and that's what I meant. I tried to say little things like "that made me feel bad," that I thought you'd pick up on. I guess one of my problems on this forum is lack of brevity in heated discussions. I need to slow down and think more. Sometimes my posts become too long to really get what I'm really meaning to say. I'm starting to realize more things like this lately, because I've never been thought of as a dick, because I've never really been open because I was so afraid of being judged by people I don't necessarily care for (not in a negative way, I am just too tired to find the right words). I don't know why I cared back then, I've just recently been trying to get past it. Here I could be open, back in high school. My group of friends had fun outside of school. Some of my friends were judgmental, others weren't; that's how it works in all groups, each member is an individual. I wasn't really mad about you misunderstanding me, I was more-so frustrated with the fact that you didn't say anything in regards to that.

I should have said that earlier, but finals week, end of first year of college, going through a lot. Hopefully you can understand.

Last edited Thu, 30th Apr 2009, 11:34pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 30th Apr 2009, 8:05pm

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jawajohnny

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Staff Only wrote:

I will have to wait and see. I was a bit: eek when I saw they were blowing up The Burrow completely in the new trailer. Also for some reason they added in OotP that Witches and Wizards can make them selves into flying phantom smoke monsters (like in LOST). This seems to be used extensively in the opening bridge scene, and also in the attack on The Burrow.
I have a possible in-universe explanation for the "smoke monster" thing. Snape actually flies in Deathly Hallows. So perhaps in the movies, they've extended it to being that everyone trained by Voldemort knows how to fly. And of course, the smoke is just added for show. smile And, I'm assuming the Burrow can be repaired easily with magic, since it plays an important part in DH. So some of these "drastic" changes/exaggerations can actually be justified by events in the books.
Posted: Thu, 30th Apr 2009, 9:33pm

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Staff Only

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jawajohnny wrote:

I have a possible in-universe explanation for the "smoke monster" thing. Snape actually flies in Deathly Hallows. So perhaps in the movies, they've extended it to being that everyone trained by Voldemort knows how to fly. And of course, the smoke is just added for show. smile
Hmm, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't The Order show up as white "smoke monsters" in The Department of Mysteries in the end of OotP? I thought that perhaps in the film universe every accomplished adult which/wizard can become smoke and fly around (the good guys being shiny bright and bad guys being dark which seemed somewhat cliched to me). Not sure if I'm remembering correctly.
Posted: Thu, 30th Apr 2009, 10:27pm

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jawajohnny

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Oh yeah, you're right. Forget that idea. Maybe it's just exaggerated apparating?