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Getting hit by Car

Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 1:17pm

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RodyPolis

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what is a simple way of showing someone getting hit by a car. By simple I mean no greenscreen or dummy. Just something I could do with compositing.

I'm thinking of something I could do with split-screen. But add a little more to that. Such as rolling on the car.

Whatever works. I just want to here what you all have to say. Tips and Tricks that could make the effect believable. Thanks
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 1:25pm

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Biblmac

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Well if you had a professional stuntman you can always actually hit him... But I doubt that is the case. Doesn't Andrew Kramer have a tutorial on this?

My only advice would be, if you want to make it real then go really slow then speed it up, but that rarely looks good...

Sorry.
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 2:18pm

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Axeman

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Trying to do it all in compositing make the effect more complicated and difficult, not simpler.
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 2:20pm

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Lior

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this method always worked for me. http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/advanced_car_hit/ hope this helps.
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 2:41pm

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RodyPolis

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Axeman wrote:

Trying to do it all in compositing make the effect more complicated and difficult, not simpler.
How so? I would think that having to key something out would take more time and wouldn't end up looking real.
Let me rephrase what I want. I want to show someone get hit by a car without using heavy special effects. I only have Composite Lab Lite so Andrew Kramer stuff don't really work.

So whether it's by using camera angles, or split-screen, or both I'm fine with it. The thing is that we're running out of time to complete the project and I want the fastest way possible-filming wise.
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 3:26pm

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Terminal Velocity

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RodyPolis wrote:

Axeman wrote:

Trying to do it all in compositing make the effect more complicated and difficult, not simpler.
How so? I would think that having to key something out would take more time and wouldn't end up looking real.
Let me rephrase what I want. I want to show someone get hit by a car without using heavy special effects. I only have Composite Lab Lite so Andrew Kramer stuff don't really work.

So whether it's by using camera angles, or split-screen, or both I'm fine with it. The thing is that we're running out of time to complete the project and I want the fastest way possible-filming wise.
Use someone expendable. :]

Never tried this before and I don't see how it's possible without greenscreen, but I would just do it uber-slow and have the actor react accordingly. I beg to differ with Biblmac; if you do it correctly, it can be convincing. But doing it correctly is the hard bit.

Manual masking? Plain old tricks? I doubt you can get a good yet easy method. Things just don't work that way.
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 3:49pm

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Biblmac

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I think you could do an angle from behind the car, till it gets to him, then have him (the actor) on the car, from a different angle, rolling off the car. Never done it, but this way you wouldn't have to do it slow.
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 4:24pm

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Bryan M Block

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Rating: +2

You could always do it with editing- you show the person, the car, then an interior shot looking out the window at the person, a closeup of the "victim" then cut to the person rolling off the car hood, etc...

No compositing, no nothing- just creative editing wink It worked for decades in the movies.

Now, the only way to do a full on collision without anyone getting hurt is with masking and compositing. Here is a DOWN & DIRTY way to do it in ANY editor that supports masking etc... with no greenscreen:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_KvISlVd0
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 4:38pm

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b4uask30male

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I wouldn't do the roll over the car.
If it's done bad it will ruin the scene, I've seen a few "low" budget films that have done, even I did the roll over with cuts and split screen, unless you have a stuntman the chances of it looking good is low

I recently had to do the car hitting someone again, but this time instead of ruining the scene I choose to let the viewer see it in their head.

Have a look it might be worth shooting it this way as a back up!

http://www.revver.com/video/1523214/scaranna-segment-12-the-legend-of-the-living/
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 5:58pm

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Bryan M Block

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b4uask30male wrote:

I wouldn't do the roll over the car.
If it's done bad it will ruin the scene, I've seen a few "low" budget films that have done, even I did the roll over with cuts and split screen, unless you have a stuntman the chances of it looking good is low

I recently had to do the car hitting someone again, but this time instead of ruining the scene I choose to let the viewer see it in their head.

Have a look it might be worth shooting it this way as a back up!

http://www.revver.com/video/1523214/scaranna-segment-12-the-legend-of-the-living/
A good example of using editing to get the point across.

Cheers!
-B
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 7:02pm

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ben3308

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Oftentimes, most especially with car impacts, it can be done in the editing. This being said, however, people are more and more 'acclimated' to these tricks of editing - especially in potential special fx shots - and they therefore look for the 'money shot', etc that will show them what they want.

I'm talking, of course, about that single, brief shot of the car actually hitting the person. Using split-screening and a bit of freehand masking (to select the person and keyframe them flying to the side of the screen) it's not that hard. My friend recently was a part of a group that did a shot just like this at the end:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uGYkSe0I-0

Check it out.
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 7:16pm

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Terminal Velocity

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ben3308 wrote:

Oftentimes, most especially with car impacts, it can be done in the editing. This being said, however, people are more and more 'acclimated' to these tricks of editing - especially in potential special fx shots - and they therefore look for the 'money shot', etc that will show them what they want.

I'm talking, of course, about that single, brief shot of the car actually hitting the person. Using split-screening and a bit of freehand masking (to select the person and keyframe them flying to the side of the screen) it's not that hard. My friend recently was a part of a group that did a shot just like this at the end:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uGYkSe0I-0

Check it out.
I gather that you're saying that to really sell it, you want to see the car really hitting someone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what you seem to mean. I think what sells the effect is seeing the impact, say, in slow motion or something. Making it so the audience can't definitively say, "Oh, that was a camera trick or compositing."
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 9:10pm

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cdolsen

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the first have the car hit a dummy that is proped up in the street. this dummy is nothing more than clothes (the same as in shot1) stuffed with nes papers and sewn together. take special note of how the arms, and body, end up on the hood of the car

the second shot start filming with the actor laying on the hood of the car in the same position as the dummy in the first shot. have him straighten up and the car backup.

edit the two together - the first shot is played backwards (car entering the shot and 'hitting' the actor) - hard cut to the second shot of the car hitting the dummy and proceding out of frame.

all dome with no composits, no danger to the actor, and shockingly real
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 9:56pm

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Arktic

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I think that showing the impact in the style of Andrew Kramer's tutorial can look pretty poor if you don't have the time to put into the details such as damage to the vehicle, shattering glass, crumpled bodywork etc. So if you don't have the skill, time or software to go down this route - trying to implicitly show the impact will always look 'budget'/poor quality.

I would suggest using a split screen technique to give the impression of the speeding car heading towards the person - do this in two passes, with a locked off camera on a tripod, first film a person crossing the road, maybe turning round and reacting as if they'd just seen a car speeding towards them. Then, without moving the camera, film the car driving at a (safe and legal) speed down the same stretch of road. You then simply mask the two shots together to give the impression that a person was in the road at the same time as the car was speeding towards them. You can add further realism to this shot by adding some digital camera shake in post, to make it look less like a locked-off effects shot.

The example that B4Uask posted is superb - that shot is a really great piece of editing; the impact doesn't happen on screen, but we all get the impression of what's happened, and it's pretty sickening. If you don't want to cut away to black as in B4's example, a reaction shot from a passer by can work well in place instead, before quickly cutting back to either the tires screeching or a shot of the person in the road.

Cheers,
Arktic.
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 10:38pm

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Terminal Velocity

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I didn't really like it. Could have been done better. It didn't really convince me. Besides the fact that it didn't really look convincing, it seems an improbable situation. They were on a straight road and the jaywalker didn't exactly leap out in front of them. You'd think there would be plenty of time to see it. Just my opinion though.
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 11:11pm

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RodyPolis

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ya I think I'll go with split-screening, camera angles and editing. I couldn't pull off the Andrew kramer look so I'm not even gonna think about it. Plus it's not an accident on the street(like 95% of these videos) It's done on purpose and I wanted to portray the brutality of it.

i'll keep think about it. Everyone of you have been very useful, please keep the tips coming. Thanks

And Ben thanks for that clip lol Really good stuff in there
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 11:12pm

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Arktic

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Really Big Gun Studios wrote:

I didn't really like it. Could have been done better. It didn't really convince me. Besides the fact that it didn't really look convincing, it seems an improbable situation. They were on a straight road and the jaywalker didn't exactly leap out in front of them. You'd think there would be plenty of time to see it. Just my opinion though.
I disagree entirely - in many of the other examples that've been posted or that I've seen in the past, very very few of them look anything like convincing; there's always something not quite right about the impact that doesn't sell the shot - whether it's the lack of damage to the vehicle,the physics of the impact/the body interacting with the car looking fake, the wrong kind of motion blur, the fact that they're always a static shot and the person most often gets knocked out of frame, the fact that the car never swerves or alters course - they always look poor quality to me.

Unless you can spend some serious time adding vehicle damage and making the body interact with the vehicle correctly etc, showing the impact digitally is almost always going to look a bit pony.

The situation seems no more improbably than that of any other RTA, to be honest. Driver on a mobile phone or momentarily distracted whilst speeding, pedestrian not looking before crossing, maybe wearing an iPod or something... it seems totally plausible to me. More realistic than having someone 'leap out' into traffic like they had a deathwish, anyway neutral
Posted: Mon, 20th Apr 2009, 11:54pm

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Biblmac

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Rody what if you had the person swerve off to the side, so that the car was now driving away from the camera, then having the person almost get hit from the same angle. Then add sound effect at the end of the shot. Next try having the person already on the hood, so you skip like 1 second of it (the actual impact) then have him all bloody rolling off? Idk? That is the best I can come up with.
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 12:18am

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Terminal Velocity

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Arktic wrote:

Really Big Gun Studios wrote:

I didn't really like it. Could have been done better. It didn't really convince me. Besides the fact that it didn't really look convincing, it seems an improbable situation. They were on a straight road and the jaywalker didn't exactly leap out in front of them. You'd think there would be plenty of time to see it. Just my opinion though.
I disagree entirely - in many of the other examples that've been posted or that I've seen in the past, very very few of them look anything like convincing; there's always something not quite right about the impact that doesn't sell the shot - whether it's the lack of damage to the vehicle,the physics of the impact/the body interacting with the car looking fake, the wrong kind of motion blur, the fact that they're always a static shot and the person most often gets knocked out of frame, the fact that the car never swerves or alters course - they always look poor quality to me.

Unless you can spend some serious time adding vehicle damage and making the body interact with the vehicle correctly etc, showing the impact digitally is almost always going to look a bit pony.

The situation seems no more improbably than that of any other RTA, to be honest. Driver on a mobile phone or momentarily distracted whilst speeding, pedestrian not looking before crossing, maybe wearing an iPod or something... it seems totally plausible to me. More realistic than having someone 'leap out' into traffic like they had a deathwish, anyway neutral
It just seemed a bit too long to me. And the drivers weren't on their cell phones...

I didn't say it was not convincing in relation to other ones, I said it wasn't convincing, period.
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 12:35pm

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b4uask30male

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I think what the original poster can take away from this thread is a little forward planning, know your limits, the guys are right about car damage and bits, it's like a cgi shot if not 100% that 1% can let it down.

Maybe spend a day doing a few different versions of it, I rushed mine as one of the actors had to go and watch F1, but a little planning you should get a few different results, i'm sure people on here would help you if you edit them and post them up, the guys here can tell you which they like the best and why.

Good luck, look forward to see what you do.
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 4:42pm

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ben3308

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Bryan M Block wrote:

Now, the only way to do a full on collision without anyone getting hurt is with masking and compositing. Here is a DOWN & DIRTY way to do it in ANY editor that supports masking etc... with no greenscreen:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_KvISlVd0
I can't believe I missed this earlier. What Bryan is linking to is exactly what I'm talking about - simple masking using an NLE - and it looks superb, most especially if you mixed it with editing techniques already suggested.
Posted: Tue, 21st Apr 2009, 7:10pm

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Bryan M Block

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ben3308 wrote:

Bryan M Block wrote:

Now, the only way to do a full on collision without anyone getting hurt is with masking and compositing. Here is a DOWN & DIRTY way to do it in ANY editor that supports masking etc... with no greenscreen:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_KvISlVd0
I can't believe I missed this earlier. What Bryan is linking to is exactly what I'm talking about - simple masking using an NLE - and it looks superb, most especially if you mixed it with editing techniques already suggested.
Yep. Creative editing + a moment of impact using these techniques + sound design & FX + good acting/reaction + music = OH MY GOD! THAT GUY GOT RUN OVER BY A CAR!

biggrin

Just a note- movie making is not easy, it usually takes a team of dedicated folks that specialize in every area of production to pull off convincing effects in the movies- we are lucky to have so much power at our fingertips these days, but the trth is that it still takes time, planning, and detail oriented work to get the best results. Enjoy the process.

Cheers,
B
Posted: Fri, 29th Jan 2010, 10:59pm

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cdolsen

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start with the actor bent over the hood spread eagle, have him stand up and the car backup, as the car continues to backup have the actor turn with his side to the car and step backward, EDIT THIS TO RUN BACKWARDS (the car will come from the side as the actor crosses, and ends up getting hit.)

cut to a second angle of the car continuing on with a dummy on the hood, slamming on the brakes. the dummy slides off.

have the car screech forward running over the actor smile who is now lying on the street.

Last edited Fri, 5th Feb 2010, 8:43pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 30th Jan 2010, 12:32am

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Lior

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Do not do what's mentioned above this comment because ur at risk of getting hit. Never Have the car near your talent. There is so much u can do today with special effects it's not needed.
Posted: Sat, 30th Jan 2010, 12:37am

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AwesomeFist

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@cdolsen
That could work but its a little dangerous considering how physics work. using that method the actor is gonna get his face smacked on the ground, or if he steps up in time it will look "cheesy." and like said before your at risk of getting hit.
Posted: Sat, 30th Jan 2010, 3:16pm

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RodyPolis

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Well thanks for the new advice, but I already filmed this shot May of 2009. So...but someone else will find it useful I'm sure.

I actually did something kinda like cdolsen was saying. I filmed it backwards, then reversed it in post so that it seemed like the car was going forward. I also used some camera trick and editing tricks to make it more convincing.

You can see the effect when I release the last episode of Carpe Diem.
Posted: Mon, 1st Feb 2010, 3:16am

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cdolsen

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the last sentence in my previous post was a tongue-in-cheek reply that should be obvious. of course you'd NEVER let anything like that near your talent.