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Exodus

Posted: Mon, 29th Jun 2009, 3:37pm

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ben3308

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In 2023, a dystopian society sees its first citizen to make a run for a perceived freedom from the censorships of the state beyond its fenced-off borders. After being pushed out of the Dallas 48 Hour, we created this for the 2009 48 Hour Film Project Austin, and in turn made entirely in Dallas as we all had jobs we couldn't leave for the weekend; and had to leave the competition for a few hours each at various points.

Starring Tyler Hiott, Trevor Gitlin
Executive Producers Michael Stettler, Greg Cotten
Producer Andrew Adams
Director Benjamin Davis, Ben Adams
Director of Photography Ben Adams, Greg Cotten
Editor Andrew Adams
Writer Andrew Adams, Tyler Hiott


More Info
Posted: Mon, 29th Jun 2009, 5:42pm

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No Respite Productions

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I *like* this!

If you didn't have the constraints, and if you had more time and could expand your film out even longer, I'd say you should "do a Ridley" and ditch the narration as that was only weak point for me.

Nicely shot, good camera work, I thought the guy on the run was a pretty decent actor delivering possibly one of the best performances I've seen on the FXHome cinema to date. He wasn't over the top and delivered his rant with plenty of conviction.

For 48 hours this was a great little short and highly entertaining.

4/5!
Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009, 10:31am

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Simon K Jones

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Good stuff, I really enjoyed this. It has a real style and vision to it.

I agree with Respite that it could do without the voiceover. Not because the voiceover is bad - in fact, it's rather good - but because it's always more satisfying as a viewer to have the story told through subtler and more integrated means, rather than a disconnected Story Man.

Then again, telling a story is difficult at the best of times, let alone in 48 hours. Either way, really good stuff, I'd just recommend trying harder to work in different storytelling methods in future.

Love the shoulderpads.
Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009, 2:45pm

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spydurhank

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This was entirely bad-ass on several different levels and I liked almost everything about it.

I agree with the others though, You didn't need the narrative so much... I say this only because whoever the narrator was... I'm assuming it was the cop, but I could be wrong. At the beginning his voice sounded like it was too high pitched and not old enough to sound like a seasoned adult cop... he sounded like a teenager? Plus he sounded like he was trying to sell you something but didn't believe his own pitch. It's like he had no emotional investment in what he was doing and was just reading off a page and couldn't wait to get it over with, unless that's what you were going for? I don't know... perhaps he was too relaxed or something?

But on the other hand... the narrative really changed pace and demeanor, it made me lean in closer to my screen and say "What"!? I was thinking... "is this the same guy"? Because the narrative sounded really fantastic right at the end of the short when the cop and the fugitive are screaming at each other. Very bad-ass and well acted BTW, You can tell by the subtle tone changes in his voice that he's coming to some sort of life changing realization. Plus his voice wasn't all high pitched.
Posted: Tue, 30th Jun 2009, 5:35pm

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ben3308

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Thanks everyone for the positive comments!

I will say that personally, while I am not usually a fan of omniscient narration (Marathon, Cover's Story) I do like first-person "here's what's up" narration - it's a more clever way to link the montage and have it develop the character at the same time. I think by keeping the narration in there it establishes the cop's snide opinion on the situation at hand; which in turn provides character background for both the cop and the blogger.

The biggest things we attempted to do here was to sell sci-fi, and not make it trite or cheesy. The most effective way to accomplish this is, in my opinion, to establish locationally the 'world' in which the characters exist, and establish the climate (politically, emotionally) that they're living at.

The costumes, locations, and most of the lighting and cinematography helped us to sell the 'world', I think, but it was the first-person spiel that really helps us set the climate of things, and establish mood. I suppose I don't see this narration feeling like 'Story Man' because we're shown the person talking and we see how his actions link to his words. He's disgusted with rebellion, and we see him spying on a rebel, etc. Could we have done something more subtle and simpler, like 'My Name is Harold Allen' (which is on DVXUser)? Yeah. But that wouldn't have been on the scale we wanted. It would be........difficult, if not impossible to set the same 'things are dire' scale using exposition and not monologue and still be able to wrap it all into 7 minutes.

Still, though, I see the qualms. As for the cop's voice - that's Trevor, by the way - I dunno why it sounds strange to you, that's just how he talks. biggrin We have a running joke that it's vaguely Canadian mixed with British.

Ultimately, though, his voice reminds us of a younger Hugo Weaving, and that was perfect considering the ending montage of 'V for Vendetta' was a huge influence here. Other obvious influences (if you've caught them) are Equilibrium, Logan's Run and THX1138. We're trying out working homage into our films - especially in genres we're not adept at, like scifi - so I couldn't pass up the opportunity here to lift elements from my favorite science/political fiction/comics and use them in the first film I've done where I'm required to have such things. biggrin

We obviously didn't want the whole 'kids playing adults' in this one, but we assumed that if we incorporated a futuristic setting well enough, that the other elements would more naturally fall into place. Hopefully they did! wink

Basically, how I imagine Atomic could do scifi is pretty perfectly executed in this film. I'm sure with more time (or a longer running time) we could convey more in a different tone; but the themes and 'world' we've established here - however obvious - are what I've always wanted.

Anyhow, I'm really glad everyone has enjoyed the film. As I always mention, that's our #1 goal. Anyone catch the final shots matching THX? wink
Posted: Wed, 1st Jul 2009, 1:38am

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Evman

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Rating: +1

Things I liked a lot:

Basically everything on the technical end. Cinematography was top quality given the time restraints. Editing was also very effective as well. Sound design left a bit to be desired (the gunshots just before the cop corners the guy by the fence sounded canned and very fake - especially given that there didn't seem to be any other ambience underneath it), but still worked well. The costumes, while obviously not big budget award winners - did their job well enough for the short time you had to make them.

Things I didn't care for so much:

The narration, as stated, is a bit tired by this point - especially with your previous track records using it. Especially here, it really does seem like a crutch you used to get you through the 48 hour thing. And this really leads into my main problem - the story.

There is nothing that bothers me more than when a message or an idea is the driving focus of a movie. This seems to happen a lot with you guys. The movie should be driven by the story and the characters. Whatever messages or commentary naturally fit into the framework of the story - so be it. But when the message takes over and BECOMES the story, I have a problem with it.

The story of the only man to break the order of the perfect society is an intriguing one. But it takes a backseat to the cop's narration (another reason why the narration bothers me even more here than in your previous work), filled with philosophical and socio-political musings that frustratingly shortchanges the main story.

Watching it, it felt very much like another of your guys' films "Messages", which I also wasn't too fond of for the same reason. Cover's Story and Marathon focused more on the story aspect, but still had elements of the overly philosophical messages creeping in at the seams.

It's something I've noticed mostly in student films, and something I'm also guilty of too. But it's something I'm trying as much as possible to get away from. Once I realized this trend in student films, I thought back on all the movies that I love. They're all expertly told stories with characters that you care about. Sure, there are messages and themes weaved in, but they are usually done naturally, oftentimes probably without even the intention of the director. I can't really say I was biting my nails about whether the main character lived or died - or if the cop would let him live. I knew he would - because the narration already gave me the inkling he would (despite the fact that he was really given no reason not to just kill him given the story up to that point).

I think it's natural to focus on these message at our age, because we want to seem important and get our opinions on things across (god knows I've done this too much too). I hope that as we grow older we'll move away from this need and just focus on telling good stories.

You guys have improved leaps and bounds since we've all started out in terms of technicals - but I'm still seeing a lot of the same lacking story problems and over-reliance on themes and messages (and voiceovers wink ) that bothered even back in the day. I think this is partially a function of the fact that all I ever see from you guys is timed contest movies - that by their very nature are going to be lacking in terms of story. Most of the other stuff I've seen of yours recently that wasn't part of a contest always seems to have some sort of disclaimer about how it was done quickly.

STOP DOING THIS!!!! smile Make a proper film, with time put into it up front in the script writing phase! Please! Marrying your excellent technicals with a thought out and character driven story would make for a superb movie.

I mean it.
Posted: Wed, 1st Jul 2009, 2:20am

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spydurhank

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I actually rather like and enjoy their shorts from what I've seen so far and I also dig the undertones or messages because it shows what you guys can do and come up with in a short amount of time.

But I also agree with Evman concerning the taking your time to really throw yourselves into a good sized project. You guys have the skills and you definitely have the talent to make some absolutely amazing films.
I really want to see you guys put your asses into it because I have all the confidence in the world, in you guys. You guys are great at what you do, so go bigger and stop hiding your skills by only working on films that have time constraints. You and your work are better than that. biggrin
Posted: Wed, 1st Jul 2009, 3:28am

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Atom

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Rating: +1

First off thanks everyone for the comments, we really appreciate them! I'm glad, for the most part, people have enjoyed our latest filmmaking endeavor to grace the FXHome cinema. Thanks for the kudos on the 'future-police' outfits, too. I try. wink

Just a little update, too- I got an email today that Exodus won the 'Audience Award' at the screenings, which is cool. We'll find out about other awards and the 'Best of City' (Which Bryan M Block's film won in Columbus last year, actually) award in a few weeks.

Evman, hey, look- I think we disagree fundamentally on a lot of aspects in filmmaking, and surely both of us going to film school has additionally soured us both from snarky, pretentious movie-styles.

But I think you mistake my urge, and I'm sure Ben's as well, for making something 'important-seeming' for our actual desire to create something with flow that is, more important than anything else- even plot- entertaining and enjoyable. That's always been it for us, and if themes and ideas come into that- hey, they just do. Messages and themes are an important aspect in filmmaking I feel like. You yourself say your favorite movies have stories that employ feelings for the characters- hey, that's great. It doesn't mean having themes and ideas in them are mutually-exclusive assets, you know?

For the record, the movies I like the best have never been directly about the characters, but the ideas behind the movies and the themes they represent. The Shawshank Redemption, for example. Like I said, we obviously disagree fundamentally here- so there's not much I can say to that effect.

This all, also of course discounting that almost all science fiction movies and series, when stripped of their special effects and high concepts, are all essentially societal tales, parables, and foils for whatever the social or political climate of the time is.

Our movie is no different- but that isn't to say we can't, don't want to, or don't also try other things. You say we use voiceover, yes, I won't debate that- but the last time I used it was nearly a year and a half ago on, well, 'Messages'. In the time since then I've done a variety of things and narrative styles- many of them I've posted here and kept people updated with (most-recently and the best example, of course, being our 24-hour movie 'No Rest For The Wicked'). I do hope you give those some views. Here with 'Exodus' we've presented somewhat of a societal tale, yes, and it's got voiceover, yes- but it has these things because and only because we felt them the best way to create an enjoyable and solid film with our given elements. (blogger, sci-fi genre, etc.)

It just worked best that way, playing to our strengths and honing our resources. We were slim on actors, for instance, and Trevor's dramatic acting was untested. Now, he overwhelmingly surprised us, yes, but instead of getting in over our heads with dialog and such with untested resources- something I feel many people do and either fail or come out rocky; something I've done on our epicfail 'Kingdom Come'- I knew a narration would be the safest and most-solid device to stick to in this movie.

It doesn't work for every movie, no. It wouldn't have worked for Pages, Heat, No Rest For The Wicked, Madison Street Boys, or our Batman film The Winged Crusade, or my most recent project 'A Love Not standing'. But it worked here, and I'm not upset about that; nor do I find it formulaic- even for us.

Look: There's only so many excuses and rebuttals I can make before I get to sounding predictable and whiny- but I just want that clarification made: Our goal isn't self-importance, rather, it is and has always been to make something other people can enjoy. If that doesn't sit well with you, or if you dislike it, that's fine.

I just think, more than ever, you're way off here with what you say. But I can't change your feelings, and I can accept that. You of all people know we do these timed things not because we get to preface our movies from them with excuses, but because they're the most fun we have- and I've said many times the 24 and 48 hour races are some of the only times I'm ever able to get together such great resources, locations, and talent. It's a great springboard for making a solid movie- even in such a short timeframe, and I'm forever grateful for the opportunity.

If that's all you've seen from us, I'm sorry. But that isn't all we've been doing- and maybe there's where a distinction needs to be made, you know?
Posted: Wed, 1st Jul 2009, 4:34am

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ben3308

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For starters, Evan, thanks for taking the time to watch and leave such an in depth review. Though I may disagree with some of your thoughts, they're still a valuable synthesis of the film and I really, really appreciate that!

I suppose I think that while it was true that a message drove the voiceover (and, in turn, the movie) in 'Messages', it doesn't here - rather, the movie is a simple, linear story (antagonizing man on the run) with a voiceover to supplement character development (which is something people have asked of us before, so we've tried to sort it into our stuff). When you really, really think about it, the voiceover may establish a message, but that's secondary to establishing the character or his counterpart.

By extension, I think the reason the message even exists is because it's a product of the character we develop who feels resentment towards rebellion and free thought and speech. Honestly, if you disagree with me here, I would really like to know where you think the weakness is, because I really have tried to sort of amend this oppressive omniscient voice that has lingered in our stuff in the past, and I feel that the voiceover here is just another component of the story to bring us to catharsis in the end, not to just be vacuous and overly impressive. wink

Also, as Atom says, when you think about sci-fi, if you really want to epitomize it - which, unlike 'sports film', is something you should epitomize biggrin - you either need to accentuate space, technology, government or medical futurist stuff. Given that accentuating technology, space or medical stuff without a large budget looks cheesy, we went for government. Given that the background of politically-fueled films is based off of philosophy, it sort of just fit in there appropriately. If you see it as shoehorned in, I guess I can see where you're coming from - just don't think that was the intent. We chose dystopian film also because we thought it was something we could do well that people would enjoy, that's our main purpose in filmmaking: entertainment, sometimes with deeper meaning (for better or for worse).

Altogether, though, I'm glad you watched the film and (hopefully) enjoyed some of it. Check out 'No Rest' if you haven't already. biggrin
Posted: Wed, 1st Jul 2009, 5:42am

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Evman

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Well guys I'm glad you didn't take my comments the wrong way.

As for Sci-Fi being all about the messages - I can see how that's true - to some degree. But if you think about GOOD sci-fi, you'll see that it's always the characters you care about first. I don't like good sci-fi movies because they have a good warning about a current political situation. I like them because the characters were engaging and kept me engrossed in the story. Even Star Trek - notorious for this "moral fable" thing - is not great because of that. It's great because Kirk and Spock rock, and the way the stories are told is fun and inventive. Though I'd hesitate to call Star Wars "sci-fi" in the strictest sense, it still suceeds primarily because of the wonderful characters, their interactions, and the great story. Of course it's hardly an original basic story and the characters themselves are the result of thousands of years of storytelling. Nonetheless, Luke, Han, and Leia are all part of everyday vernacular for a reason. To cop out all sci-fi as simply "just moral tales and parables" is kinda cheap. More than anything else, they're good stories. The stories are what engages us, and what makes any film run. Otherwise, you can look up something on the internet and find a million different viewpoints on it without getting a worthless "narrative" to go along with it... razz

I was simply frustrated by the story sitting on the backburner. I was interested in the story of the guy being a criminal for speaking his mind. But let's be honest - that has been done to death in countless movies and other media before. It almost feels like you realized this and tried to comment on it, rather than take the story anywhere it hasn't been before.

That's simply not my style. And it's not the kind of movie that I enjoy.

Ben, you asked where the voiceover faltered in being completely character driven. Well I'd say mostly from the fact that we didn't know enough about this guy. From the get go, we know him as a talking voice over pictures of him looking penseive. We never see him really DOING anything. And this is another problem for me. Films are about action. Books are about words. Films with narration like this always seem like... why didn't the writer just write a book? You're wasting all the creative possibilites of having a complete world to film visually. Film is not the ideal medium for getting into someone's headspace. For one thing, it's boring, and it's also a waste of screentime. Especially when it's not really forwarding the story that much.

If the voiceover was character driven, I would have cared what happened to either of these two main characters. I didn't. That's my general litmus test. Niether character was truly set up in any sort of sympathetic way, because we never really saw them do anything that made us care about them.

The need you both have to make entertaining movies is the goal of many filmmakers - I just don't think it's entertaining to listen to someone's inner monolouge while the real story is happening just beyond their voice. unsure

I just can't shake the feeling that there's a great movie hidden in here somewhere - but not in the way you chose to tell it. Given more time to think it through, I'd say it could have worked a lot better. At least for me.

But hey - that's me. If you guys wanna keep on doin' what you're doin', then by all means, keep on trucking. Just know that I don't think I'm the only person with this view about what makes a good movie. Do with that information what you wish! :p
Posted: Wed, 1st Jul 2009, 6:05am

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ben3308

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I see where you're coming from, I just still have to disagree.

Evman wrote:

But let's be honest - that has been done to death in countless movies and other media before. It almost feels like you realized this and tried to comment on it, rather than take the story anywhere it hasn't been before.
Dude, you're exactly right. The voiceover allows you to reference characters in more than one scenario - we see the cop chasing the blogger, watching him secretly during a taping of a rebellion video, and reading his blogs as they're written. We see their shared experiences, and it's made meaningful by through the order it's put in and the monologue that describes it. The dystopian story has been done before, and it's *relatively* simple/repetitive, so our 'take' on it was to meld our style as effectively as we could to the movie, making it entertaining in the process.

To get this kind of...scale in the film, the voiceover was necessary. You made a film called 'Vivification' which I very much enjoyed, but its sole backing was single dialog between yourself and a girl. The story was told on a more personal level, and it worked well for that movie. In establishing the sense of rebellion that we wanted, though, I don't think dialog like that would've worked.

I'm not trying to nitpick - don't think that - I just think that in this film, more than anything we've ever done, we added elements where necessary, not for the sake of adding them.

Last edited Wed, 1st Jul 2009, 6:10am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 1st Jul 2009, 6:09am

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Atom

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Ben beat me to it, but:

Meh, agree to disagree. I'm not discounting all sci-fi as parables, but I think you're trying at a stretch here- there are obvious difficulties to making a sci-fi short film, in any amount of time, and I'm happy with the one we made and how we went about it. We're obviously not going to make Star Wars or something of the sort- and sometimes it feels like, perhaps even sometimes with us specifically, people like you try to pick because we aren't doing that. Would you have those expectations of others, you know? That's just what frustrations I have.

Me personally, I wouldn't do it another way. Maybe you would, but that remains to be seen. Sure there's a tried-and-true 'yeah you guys are good at technicals but the story still suffers!' line, but it's still upsetting to see it all discounted, because I never see it as story versus technicals. Neither are more important or stressed for me, it's more about storytelling, you know?

The way I go about presenting my movie, finding its flow, is what I like most about filmmaking and my own films, if it's not too prideful to say. This plays into the 'entertaining' deal.

I don't mean to argue, I just don't like you discounting the way I do things. If you'd watch our other recent movies, you'd *hopefully* see we're not a one-trick-pony; however much you might see it that way.

Last edited Wed, 1st Jul 2009, 6:14am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 1st Jul 2009, 6:13am

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Evman

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ben3308 wrote:



I'm not trying to nitpick - don't think that - I just think that in this film, more than anything we've ever done, we added elements where necessary, not for the sake of adding them.
Yeah, I can see what you mean - it just didn't seem to work for me. I guess it's simply not my style, and not the way I would have liked to see it go. I think the elements you added "where necessary" could have just as easily been replaced by other, more effective elements - given proper forethought and detailed plotting just not possible in 48 hours.
Posted: Wed, 1st Jul 2009, 8:27am

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Simon K Jones

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The 'to voiceover or not to voiceover' issue is a big one for me. I've seen films where it doesn't work and I've seen films where it really does work, but on the whole I prefer it to not be there. It's hard to say why exactly - I think if there's a way to get the voiceover information to the viewer without using voiceover, it's preferable.

It's a tricky line, though. I actually felt the voiceover in this worked much better than in some of your other films, because it seemed to be espousing both character and story/themes at the same time, unlike some of your previous work where it's been 100% story/theme. As I think Spydurhank said, the second half of the voiceover worked MUCH better than the first half. Not so much because of the acting, but because the writing got more interesting and specific.

The reason it's an issue I'm mulling over considerably is that I'm hoping to turn this short story into a short film later in the year/next year, and the style of the short obviously lends itself to having a voiceover. But I can't shake the feeling that that would be the cheap, easy way out - the obvious thing to do - and I'm therefore trying to figure out ways of getting the same detail to the viewer via other means.

Interesting stuff, no doubt.
Posted: Wed, 1st Jul 2009, 9:32am

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Atom

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Which is a good point, I think, Tarn. If voiceover naturally would properly convey what you're trying to say, in a tone you're trying to set, why go out of your way not to use it, you know? Cheap, but to who? The viewer? Yourself? I feel like what's been oft been considered a crutch of ours has sometimes turned into the appropriate route lately, and I've arbitrarily avoided it.

That makes things seem forced to me, and when it came to sci-fi and what we could do, I really wanted to avoid that feeling here. Hence, the voiceover. You bring up a perfect point and hesitation- we got too wary of the idea of voiceover, I think, and some of our films this past year have been worse off because of it- not that they all required or called for it, most of them didn't, but yeah- not necessary to rule out; and that's what we've realized in our recent movies, including this one, which I worked on this past weekend.

Likewise, spydurhank's assertion that the voiceover was supposed to possibly be slightly under-enthused in the first half is a correct one. We knew we wanted a revelation, but to do it in such a short timeframe we felt would just come off silly and far too forced. The voiceover was a good way to pull it in, at least I felt, because we start with very 'by-the-book', 'code'-style monotone speech, explaining the social climate and introducing the characters- but as it progresses we're meant to hear and see more humanity, to really feel the cop rethink the actions and world he's living in. He has a moment of revelation almost immediately during his aggressive speech about order, but it's softened through the voiceover and the writing- and this was purposeful.

It's meant to get more personal, more specific, more important, and more plot-progressing as far narration goes by the very end. And even better, it worked the required line of dialog in there, I felt, perfectly- at least the best we've ever worked it in. ("I never thought about it that way.)

And the second question, of course, would be do you plan to produce your script yourself- or are you looking for someone to do it?

Last edited Wed, 1st Jul 2009, 9:44am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 1st Jul 2009, 9:40am

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Simon K Jones

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Atom wrote:

And the second question, of course, would be do you plan to produce your script yourself- or are you looking for someone to do it?
Currently I'm planning to do it myself, but I'm not 100% sure on that yet. Will depend how the script comes out.
Posted: Thu, 2nd Jul 2009, 12:21am

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Evman

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If you've seen my movie Ramen, which I put in the cinema about 6-7 months ago (in my sig), you'll know that it is a movie with what I would consider a message in it.

When I first sat down to write the script, I thought of EVERY possible way to do it without narration. I couldn't come up with any thing, and wrote the script with narration, and recorded every word of it. I had settled on it being the only way to tell the story. I edited together a rough cut and showed it to my class. As all first cuts usually are - this one wasn't that great, and my class let me know this (though I already knew it wasn't great). They nitpicked it to death - which is what we're supposed to do. And I took their advice into consideration. They never once mentioned the narration.

When I went to do my second cut - I changed some things around and suddenly realized - I can do without this narration. I can edit this differently so that I don't need it. I took it out, and made some quick fix up edits to smooth over the seams. Suddenly, the movie was LEAGUES better. Everyone who saw the first cut and then the final cut could see the difference without me even saying everything. The class unanimously agreed the movie was much improved - in large part due to the absence of the narration.

Once it was lifted, the movie immediately became far less about the heavy-handed message I was trying to espouse to the audience, and much more about the protagonist's personal journey. The message of the importance of questioning your faith became a single case of a single person doing so, and what the outcome was for him. It left everything open to interpretation, rather than shoving it down people's throats. The message itself became far stronger - including a "do what's right for you" clause in there, and the story itself wasn't as shortchanged.

Obviously circumstances are different - and your narration wasn't the same exact thing as mine - but the point still stands. Even when you think there is no other way - or even if you think that it's the right way - there's usually a better way to go than narration. Even if you don't see it till the 11th hour.

Just cause you've tried a few new things and they didn't work as well as your narration, doesn't mean you can't keep trying more new things. wink
Posted: Thu, 2nd Jul 2009, 1:22am

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ben3308

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Evman, for the record, what do you think the 'message' we pushed here was? Because as far as I continue to see, the narration's primary purpose is to develop the characters.

Also, just a sidenote, but I don't particularly care for exposition, particularly when it comes from a less than skilled actor. In this case, the dialog necessary to convey the information that the narration otherwise would seems stagnant an makes the film more boring and therein less entertaining. Not to sound rude, just to provide an example, but this was a big flaw in Ramen - the exchange of words wasn't too well acted, so it came off as a little awkward and made the film less enjoyable to me. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that I will also play to my strengths in whatever I do, and it was I believe a wise choice to do narration versus intercharacter exposition.

But still, where'd you see the message here? What was it? I'm not trying to sound stupid, I'm just still baffled.
Posted: Thu, 2nd Jul 2009, 2:20am

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RodyPolis

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Well I have to say I really enjoyed it. Almost everything worked for me. The narration was great and I really couldn't see another way of doing this. It told me what I needed to know about the setting and the characters. I can't think of a better way to develop that much in 5 minutes, so good job on the narration.

The whole thing was beautifully shot and I liked watching every frame of it. The shot with the guards holding their guns was one of I favorites; great use of the lense flair. The music and sound work was good too and fit well.

While I think this was really good, few things kept it from being perfect. The chases needed faster cuts and a little more camera movement. It just wasn't as intense as it could have been.

Also I didn't like the way the guard was shooting. Like how he tilted the muzzle up after he shot. Shooting like this only works when you're just using your fingers, but when it comes to shooting guns it just gets really annoying in movies. It just seemed like he(the cop) thought he was shooting imaginary bullets, so he's tilting the gun to give more effect. A slight vibration would've worked better.

Can't really say much on the acting since there wasn't much. The first couple lines from the characters felt forced. but once they started yelling it went great.

So there it was, my review. While there were few problems, they were very minor. So I'll this 5/5, great job you guys once again.

And I do agree with people saying you all should take your time and do a movie. Cause except for the batman movie I've never seen a movie where you all took more then 24/48 hours on. So you should definitely take your time and make a good movie. smile
Posted: Thu, 2nd Jul 2009, 2:40am

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ben3308

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Thanks for the comments, man. Yeah, I agree he shoots the gun weird, we all sort of laughed to ourselves when we saw him do it. Even after coaching him on how to shoot it, it's still hard to catch the right angle while he did the right stance - it was just difficult to coordinate shooting in the right direction while running out of the sewer at the right time while burning daylight (we shot that whole scene, running parts included from 7:30 to 8:45pm, so light was going away fast, and the location was wet, swampy and hard to move around in biggrin) - it was just tough no matter what! Still, though, it does looks a bit overdone, but hopefully it's not too noticeable. wink

As for the lens flare, the guard holding the flashlight-laden gun was my co-cinematographer, Greg, and as soon as I broke the news that he would have to play an extra (we arrived at the factory and realized a whole crew chasing the blogger in the beginning would look cooler) he got excited and started scheming ways to work lighting motifs into his role. The flashlight is what we compromised on. biggrin

Considering making a longer movie - well, we've tried, multiple times, and the people we get onboard either commit for too short an amount of time, or just flake out and move away. We're still pulling together a feature, but the main reason we post these contest films up is because it's what we enjoy making the most, and we hope that you guys enjoy watching them. Save a few other FXHome users (FCRabbath) these boards don't see a lot of submission consistency amongst users, so we like bringing one or two 'annual' films, it makes the spirit of them all the more fun.

One other thing I forgot to do was thank FXHome and TubeTape yet again for the lights and stock footage from the FXHome Awards. As the factory and b-roll scenes will show, we put both to pretty good effect! biggrin
Posted: Thu, 2nd Jul 2009, 8:24am

Post 21 of 83

Simon K Jones

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ben3308 wrote:

One other thing I forgot to do was thank FXHome and TubeTape yet again for the lights and stock footage from the FXHome Awards. As the factory and b-roll scenes will show, we put both to pretty good effect! biggrin
Good to hear! smile


Going back to the narration debate -

I don't think narration should be directly replaced with dialogue. As you say, expositionary dialogue is arse. It's even worse than VO.

What would be better would be to get the content of the VO into the movie itself. Set design, location choices, props, sound design. Arrange all the elements so that they deliver the same information. It's harder, but much more effective.

If you take a look at something like THX 1138 (and, yes, I did spot the homage at the end!) there's hardly any dialogue, and the nature of the society is depicted through all the other elements - location/sets, props like the TV/stimulator that Duvall uses, the design of the cops, costumes...We don't need to be told directly "this is a regimented, restricted, repressed society in which individual thought is considered dangerous" because every single frame of the movie drips with that information.

I am, of course, completely aware that to do that would have been a major challenge in such a short production period, and going with the VO made sense in this case due to that limitation.
Posted: Thu, 2nd Jul 2009, 5:56pm

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JasonX1024

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I dont know, I like the music and the atmosphere. But it seems its too "dramatic". Such loud overly dramatic sounds and ambience music with running and fades here and there, but its not that necessary. I get the whole outline of it, but its too short of a movie to identify with the characters, the dialogue sounds like it tries to be bigger than it is. I think if this movie is about the downfall of order and how the future is a dystopia then it should be a gritty, over the top fight for your life feeling. Not a new age rebellion thing. If you dont know what I'm saying I understand haha but this is what comes to my mind when I watch this. 4/5
Posted: Fri, 3rd Jul 2009, 9:34am

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Atom

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Hey, thanks JasonX. I get what you're saying, and to an extent I do think you're right. But there really was a chord we were trying to strike here that kind of falls inbetween what you describe as 'gritty, fight-for-your-life' and 'new age rebellion', as I don't think you necessarily have to be one way or another- or that the two can't supplement eachother.

The music, the sound effects, the grading, camerawork, etc.- it all goes to establishing a specific style and tone, you know? And that's what we were getting at and (hopefully) pulled off pretty well, as we were wary the sci-fi genre tackled that way might come off silly. (Well, we were afraid doing a sci-fi drama any way would come off silly, actually.)

But I hope you'll see the movie isn't trying to be completely optimistic and carefree or completely hammered-down, gritty, dystopian. The idea was to have the movie progress from the latter to the former, bringing in the grittiest bits of visual, technical, and storytelling in the filmmaking in at the climax and developing the 'new age rebellion' thing on a hopeful note from there.

We wanted something that wouldn't seem obvious or too preposterous, like the blogger saying 'I'm a rebel, I hate you!' outright; or having the cop immediately have an epiphany. Here, once again, we all felt the narration really cushioned this tonal transition. As with the characters- hey, there's only so much you can do in a short film- any short film, you know. I'm not going to be deterred into only doing feature-length stuff just because there's not much character development in 5 minutes- woe is filmmaking, you know? I don't normally see a lot of character development in any of the short films I watch. smile

Still, I hope you got some insight into the characters, enough to care -however slightly- about what was going on. That's really the basic character importance I have with making movies. Hopefully you'll agree, or at least see what I'm saying. I hate it when movies feel too self-important or overserious and just simply don't pull it off, looking spoofish or silly- but I agree and support filmmakers and movies having confidence in tackling material or a tone/atmosphere a certain way and running with it. We tried to do the latter.

Oh, and my second 48 Hour movie (that I co-directed and edited with another team) screened today- reaction were really favorable. It looks, funny enough and prideful too, that we might just win 'best of' in both Austin and Dallas- which means we'd compete against ourselves for 'Best of Competition' or at least best of the U.S.

Should be fun stuff, we're going to try and do the Little Rock, Arkansas one as well- nature-y/woods shooting!
Posted: Fri, 3rd Jul 2009, 9:40pm

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swintonmaximilian

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Rating: +1

Hi, well I have to say that is my favourite of your films to date. I really, really liked the voiceover, and if I'm totally honest, you wouldn't have had a film without it. I didn't see it as trying to tell the story of what I was seeing, rather I took it as a sort of comment on a particular time in history from a position some time forward of when your film took place, if that makes sense. The voiceover had a sense of epic determination, it's hard to describe exactly what I mean. The acting was very good, from both your main actors. I particularly like the cop. The visuals all worked together to create a kind of visual scrapbook of a catalytic event, the editing adds to this, quick cuts between the characters, flitting back and forth in time. I think that the shoulder flap/car mats were ok considering the time frame, but not the most convincing of costumes. Also, and I know you wont like this at all, I think that the grading was too much and actually didn't help the story because it's such a common look for this type of subject matter. It does seem a little tired. To talk briefly about the issue of the film pushing a mesage, I don't agree that it does. I think that in some of your films, the message can come of as ponderous, and at worst quite pretentious. Not here though, there is a theme to the film, it does have a central idea that could be said to be the message, but it all seems very natural and unforced. Overall, good job, 4 out of 5.
All the best,
Max
Posted: Sat, 4th Jul 2009, 7:12am

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Sollthar

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Rating: +1

It's a really well written and acted voiceover you have there underlined with some very nice images. And for me, it's really the voiceover that holds everything together.
It's really well (as most of your stuff) in all areas and made with some interesting philosophical ideas behind it, which is something I always like - even if they touch ground that has been covered that way for centuries. So it didn't add anything new to the mix, but still, it has content, which is great.

My only gripe with the film is again down to this "done in only 48 hours" mantra all your films have. Apart from some details screaming "we really didn't have time to do that" the whole dramatic structure is the problem for me.

I've often called your films "overdramatic" or "pretentious" and this is still the case here. Dramatic voiceover, brooding music and soundeffect,lots of running, two actors yelling at each other in full power, big climax, release, end. The thing for me is, this could actually work brilliant as the last chapter of a longer film that has totally captured me and taken me on a journey with the characters. I can totally imagine, if this was indeed, say, the last 5 minutes of a 20 or 30 minute film, that I would be in awe and staring into the monitor just to know what happens next.
But since those 20 or 30 minutes of taking me into a story or a character don't exist, I watch it in distance, the characters don't mean anything to me and their dramatic exchange feels fake and overdone.
So I feel like I've only seen the end of a film without any build up. And that falls flat and feels odd. Despite the good filmmaking behind it.

What your films have always lacked for me is time. The proper time to unfold the story in a way it takes you in. To build that kind of drama and tension your going for, I need time. And your films never offer me that. And I would definately like to watch a 30 minute or more atomic film that has a proper build up and takes it's time not to throw the icing of a cake at me, but takes time to build the whole cake.
Posted: Sun, 5th Jul 2009, 1:04am

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ben3308

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Hey, Marco, thanks so much first off for commenting and rating; as always it definitely means a lot to us. biggrin

Sollthar wrote:

It's really well (as most of your stuff) in all areas and made with some interesting philosophical ideas behind it, which is something I always like - even if they touch ground that has been covered that way for centuries. So it didn't add anything new to the mix, but still, it has content, which is great.
I'm really happy you said this - and to an extent, swintonmaximillian did too - because this is pretty much precisely what we're going for in terms of storytelling with this one: the general 'feel' of scifi that evokes those archaic man vs. society feelings of dystopia without having to have advanced special effects of burning cities or hordes of people (although I had written in shots that included both of these! even without the time limit, I don't think they're possible!). Anyhow, I'm glad you understood what we were going for - it most certainly wasn't any sort of overbearing message, just a natural 'thesis' overall that is found at the conclusion of the narration.

My only gripe with the film is again down to this "done in only 48 hours" mantra all your films have. Apart from some details screaming "we really didn't have time to do that" the whole dramatic structure is the problem for me.
Heh, well first things first, though in Cover's Story that was a big defense for us, I should probably make it clear that we no longer use the words 'only' or 'just' in these 48 hour contests, because we now know exactly what we're entering, and most things now (especially technicals and sound, etc) are no longer excusable like they once were. Like most different endeavors, these timed contests are favorable in some ways (easier to corral actors in a short time) and poor in others (limited time) but overall it's the best amount of fun:productivity ratio for us, so we continue to do them.

Don't think that this takes away from us working on longer efforts - we still crack away at them when we can! biggrin We just like having a relatively consistent flow of work (especially for me, cinematographically) appear here, because we know that (some) people enjoy it. wink

I've often called your films "overdramatic" or "pretentious" and this is still the case here..........if this was indeed, say, the last 5 minutes of a 20 or 30 minute film, that I would be in awe and staring into the monitor just to know what happens next.
I would pretty much agree here, and yes, this is a limitation of time but I think we did, proverbially, something close to what Bryan M. Block did with Aidan 5 - touched on themes/story that could be expanded. I'm not saying they're the same thing, just that the brooding narration, investigative antagonist, etc all sort of adds up to the same tension in the end.

What we realized here was that once we got sci-fi, we no longer wanted to do something 'vague and virtuous' like we've done many times, nor something 'quirky' like No Rest for the Wicked (it just wouldn't work); rather, we all really wanted to encapsulate that tension that you see in sci-fi, but convey it as appropriately and not OTT as we could. I'm aware the end is a bit abrupt, but hopefully we have a slight bit more development/buildup in this than our other stuff. I know it's never going to be completely sufficient, but this issue - which we foresaw, mostly - was something we tried to solve using contrast in action and tone. You'll notice that the pre-credits bit in this is probably our most tame intro ever, it's pretty 'mellow'. That primarily because we really wanted to keep the first 2/3rds of the movie low-key to make the last 1/3rd look like the sort of natural explosion of the bottled up narrative bits here and there. biggrin

Like I said, it's something we saw might happen, and for you it did. I can't excuse this problem with character attachment, I can only say that we did what we could for a short subject (the running time limit, not the production time limit) and it gives homage where due, which has been a big 'theme' I've been playing around with lately (NRFTW having Ritchie and Fincher homages).

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed some of it, and we'll definitely be taking your thoughts into consideration in our future endeavors! biggrin
Posted: Sun, 5th Jul 2009, 6:43pm

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TubeTape

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ben3308 wrote:

One other thing I forgot to do was thank FXHome and TubeTape yet again for the lights and stock footage from the FXHome Awards. As the factory and b-roll scenes will show, we put both to pretty good effect! biggrin
You are very welcome! We love to see it put to good use. It's inspiring. biggrin
Posted: Sun, 5th Jul 2009, 7:16pm

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Atom

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One more thing because Ben didn't touch on it as much as he did Sollthar, is I want to thank you, Max, for your comments. You're rapidly becoming one of my favorite filmmakers on FXhome and your advice is always very in-depth, tactful, and beneficial.

Although I must ask, when you're talking about grading- do you mean the style of too tired for how we do it, or how sci-fi movies are graded in general? If it's the latter, that's cool. The entire film, even before we got to 'dystopian world' we wanted to have a very desaturated, bleak, post-apocalyptic look in-line with the visual style of Terminator: Salvation but with the less-grungy color temperatures ala Minority Report. And we/I wanted this look to slowly progress into a less-harsh, more-saturated tone by the ending- promoting a more optimistic feel.

But yeah, that can be a bit overdone and exhausted, the whole 'bleak' look- and I can understand that.
Posted: Sun, 5th Jul 2009, 8:04pm

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swintonmaximilian

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Hi, thanks Atom. What I mean in terms of the grading is that I see that sort of look in a lot of science fiction/modern films that use it as a short hand for establishing a certain sense of time, place and atmosphere. Obviously, this is one of the prime functions of grading, but when every film that wants a gritty, bleak feel looks the same, I tend to feel that it works aginst the originality and unique identity of the film. For example, you mention Terminator Salvation, which to me was one of the most unimaginative films of all time and which used a particular style of grading because it's roughly the standard look for post apocalyptic scenarios now days. So, what I meant was that I think the style of grading for this type of film is overused, often by film makers who don't have the imagination to think of something different. I'm not saying that of you, don't wory, it looks good. However, this is all very subjective and completely down to personal taste. I'm funny about grading, I nearly couldn't watch Defiance because of the grading. So, I'm not criticising your grading, I just feel like even a different colour palette keeping the bleak tone would have set this film apart from the crowd. Have to run now, hope this explains what I meant.
All the best,
Max
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 8:50am

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Atom

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No, I gotcha. That's what I figured. Thanks for the response once again! Always appreciated!
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 12:18pm

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Terminal Velocity

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I really hate to say this, but I wasn't all that excited when I saw the film. The voiceover was great--don't get me wrong--but it seemed to make the film focus more on what the police officer was thinking, rather than what was actually happening. I think what messed it up was that the voiceover took up the majority of the film, since it was only five minutes long. I guess there wasn't much you could do about the length, but all in all I thought it sort of produced the wrong effect, putting the characters' thoughts first and the actual happenings in second place. While this is fine, I don't think that's what you intended.

As I've said before, that green tint is getting a bit old. In fact, the grading in general seemed extremely similar to No Rest For the Wicked. I've heard that it's the "Atomic" thing and all, but you may have to go for something a bit different. I thought a bleach bypass would have looked very good on this.

And the camera. Nearly every shot seemed to use a shaky camera. I like that in a few shots, but like many things it can be overused, and I think that's what I saw here. This produced the idea that the camera was handheld, rather than actually contributing to the film.

What was that on the floor in the first scene that the fugitive made an officer slip on? A banana peel? biggrin You know the Mythbusters busted that? wink

3/5.
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 2:19pm

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Viking

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For the most part, I enjoyed this. The voice over was really well done but the acting seemed a little forced and a few of the shots looked wrong (overhead shot of the man hiding in the box) Remember pratice makes perfect, keep up the good work.
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 4:27pm

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Atom

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Ooooh, someone's just cruisin' for a bruisin, aren't they Richard? biggrin

I'm at work typing on my phone, but I'll DEFINITELY get to you later.
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 5:18pm

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Jonnie

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i loved it. I thought it all really worked well. i loved the last scene with the silhouette of the guy walking away. nice touch.

Always a pleasure to watch an Atomic Production razz
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 5:28pm

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Terminal Velocity

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Atom wrote:

Ooooh, someone's just cruisin' for a bruisin, aren't they Richard? biggrin

I'm at work typing on my phone, but I'll DEFINITELY get to you later.
smile

Of course, there were plenty of great points as well, but I considered them pretty obvious already and found no need to reiterate them.
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 7:09pm

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ben3308

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Richard III wrote:

As I've said before, that green tint is getting a bit old. In fact, the grading in general seemed extremely similar to No Rest For the Wicked. I've heard that it's the "Atomic" thing and all, but you may have to go for something a bit different. I thought a bleach bypass would have looked very good on this.

And the camera. Nearly every shot seemed to use a shaky camera. I like that in a few shots, but like many things it can be overused, and I think that's what I saw here. This produced the idea that the camera was handheld, rather than actually contributing to the film.
For starters, thanks a bunch fir taking the time to watch and rate the film, it means a lot. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the film, and understand most if your qualms. I do, however, take issue with the two above comments.

A. None of the film was graded green at no point were the hues shifted or balanced towards green. At all. I normally hate when people say this to me, but maybe you don't understand how grading is achieved, so you're lumping everything into a 'green' category? I dunno. But yeah, no single shot had any green bolstered at all.

B. It's okay that you didn't like the cinematography, but I don't appreciate you calling it all shaky cam. Maybe it's not your style, but the fact remains that the factory shots, the crane shots, all the b-roll shots and half the dialog was shot on a fluid head tripod. To be honest, I actually found this comment pretty insulting. I know you didn't mean anything by it, and I know everyone has their own opinions but I certainly don't think the camera here is 'shaky cam' or any variation on the whole! biggrin Cinematography isn't one of the parts of our films that I would say we're 'still just learning' at. No, it's something we've developed into the way we like it, and I don't intend to change it that much. So yeah, I suppose some shots (like the running, fittingly so) are looser, but everything else is locked. Were we watching the same movie? wink
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 8:19pm

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Terminal Velocity

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You sure? It looked pretty green to me. Possibly a mental projection coming from what I expected. wink

When I say nearly every shot, maybe I exaggerated a bit. But it certainly seemed to me that there were some shots that shook, though they didn't need to shake. For example, when the fugitive is sitting on the playground, as he stands up it looked to me to be wobbling a bit. Again...maybe it's mind over matter.
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 8:50pm

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Mike Q

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Rating: +1

I watched this when it first came out, and thought, meh. I've read all the comments and thought I'd give it another watch. I must have been tired that first time, I really enjoyed it, I know there's been a lot of disscusion about the V/O, but I found it drew me in, although I did feel that it dragged on a little at the end,
Green tinge Richard? I actually thought this was one of the lesser graded Atomic productions, this may not be the case, grading can be decieving, but it had a look that wasn't obvious, or overbearing, to me at least.

I do agree that there was a little to much camera movement for me, like Richard mentioned, on the bridge as he stands, and when they are running to the fence. It only bothers me, and stands out as "shaky cam" because most of your shots are well constructed with good movement and look very pro.
Posted: Tue, 7th Jul 2009, 5:44am

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Atom

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Heh. Sitting on the "playground". That's an outrigger, Richard, not a playground. One of the many locales in this movie we fought to get in there in order to get a 'futuristic realism'- we wanted you to believe he was out in the distance, near a futuristic border. The outrigger is part of that- not a playground.

As for the grading, well, you're going to think what you're going to think; and you're going to see what you're going to see. A 'green tint' moniker, however as you put it, is getting a bit old as well.

With No Rest all of the movie except the very end is graded with high luminance boosts and lots of blues- in the midtones and highlights, no green. Here, likewise, the grading is a stark contrast from what I normally do, and I think you mistake 'green tint' for, well, to some extent grading itself.

Look, I'm all about getting my movie as polished-looking as possible and getting the right look and feel down. If that happens to be greenish looking, hey- it just does. I'd say my style is most in-line with that of, say, David Fincher- who has all but his latest movie in some sort of 'greenish tint' (Fight Club, Zodiac, Se7en, Panic Room)- but I'm sure he'd resent that as, if you put them side-by-side, each of his films would look especially unique from eachother while still having the consistency of all being 'his' films.

I'd like to think the same is true here. You have to remember something: I'm not using filters I just arbitrarily throw on, and I've been grading for a while now. So when you say 'a bleach bypass would've worked' I kind of just roll my eyes. I know, I know, I shouldn't- but I do.

Because the truth of it is Exodus specifically doesn't have any hue shift in the midtones, highlights, anything towards any sort of green. It's got 5-10 layers of grading tracks, yeah, and the hue shifts slightly as the movie progresses to a more golden tone- but green? Nope. It doesn't have a 'bleach bypass' because I can get better results if I manually shift the luminance, saturation, black points, color temperature, etc. instead- and I do. Like I said, as cocky as it will inevitably sound, I've been grading for a while now- I know what I'm doing, I don't use filters.

And hey, if it comes off green to you, in all honesty, maybe that's just the 'look' of a good camera, you know?

I used to think all the footage I saw from the HVX2100 looked too 'green and contrasty', only to realize it was just the look of a good camera with proper exposure. Maybe the same's true here?

I dunno- and I'm not trying snap at you, I promise. It's just.......grading comments for me are always so frustrating, because to me all of my movies have such appropriately different looks- and the even bigger frustration and irony to it is, if you look at the Vegas timeline, you'd see the biggest contrast in grading styles would actually probably be between No Rest For The Wicked and Exodus.

As for the camera movement- I can't speak there. I just know the majority of the movie and shots are either tripod, dolly, crane, or steadicam- and those that aren't are in there for a purpose.
Posted: Tue, 7th Jul 2009, 8:40am

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spydurhank

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Rating: +1

I just watched this again so let me start off by saying I personally like this flick and have nothing bad to say about it so....
Not to cause or start an argument or to tell anyone that they didn't see what they thought they saw but...

The only green that you actually see is from trees and grass... oh and this one wall which is colored green but I forget which scene it's located in.
The reason that the color green may stand out a bit more than every other color is because the dark colors are way to dark and the bright colors are way to bright if that makes sense to you. There are either barely any blues anywhere, and also the reds which you would normally see in a skin tone, which is most likely what they were going for... a neutral gray, maybe to portray the lack of freedom of speech or original thought?

That may be the only fault, though I can't really say that it is. It's like looking at a watercolor painting. The colors are either very dark and profound or they're very light, thinned out... devoid or diluted to the point of being stretched out of any color which you will have an emotional reaction too. Again, that may have been what they were going for, you never know.

We as viewers don't know what they were trying to portray by washing out most of the colors in their film but it does make you think and it does affect the way you view the film. So coming at this from a painters perspective... If you have a primary red, blue and green and you kill the reds and blues... all you have left are the greens, even though you didn't really play with the greens themselves to make them stand out, they're still going to be there. All subliminal like.

Hey I could be way wrong and you wanted your greens to stand out for whatever reason so no worries but... Just so you know that I understand and this is how I myself see it... As I stated earlier... there are no green tints or grading as far as I can tell, on the actors or the film other than what is coming from nature itself which actually and definitely stands out BTW.

That's all I've got for you... if you want to get away from folks saying that all of your films have too much green grading in them because it bugs you... well then the simple answer is to stay away from green backgrounds unless you have the knowledge and foresight to be able to crush those greens and get them out of your films "Grading". It's like you said Atom... You're going to see what you're going to see but in all honesty... you can say that you didn't lean towards the green grading but the way this film looks... with it's lack of blues and reds. All folks are going to see are the greens so you can't totally fault them for feeling that way, even though there are no green tints on anyone or the sets besides the outdoor locations. It's subliminal and to get away from that well... I already said how, so there you go.

I'm not nitpicking BTW, I'm just saying that this is what I noticed and you said yourself that you didn't do this with the grading or you didn't do that. Well dude rather than becoming frustrated with what 1 guy or 30 guys say about your grading... either tell em' 1. Hey dude! Did you notice all the foliage in the background which is causing all the green that your seeing? 2. Pick your locations and costume colors more carefully while keeping in mind the type of grading that you may use.
3. Or try my best one yet. Don't get overly upset that, when and if you feel that you have to explain yourself to anyone over your creative choices just because they didn't like your grading process or the outcome of that process because it was leaning too much in one color for their taste.
and by all means please don't compare your work with someone elses work when you deem it worthy enough to defend yourself or your work because again... someone else didn't like it. Pretty much don't get defensive dude. It's not worth it. No offense but take it this way if you like. Like myself you either noticed the color scheme and how it played or didn't play together with the little amount of grading that you did... or you didn't notice it at all so it never crossed your mind. It's not that big of a deal man. Learn from it and next time you'll have an even more bad-ass flick than this one is.

Oh yeah, after watching this again... I do like all of the narration. I dunno if I was tired the first time I watched it but I get it this time around. Yeah so them's my two cents and watch them damned greens cause some folks don't like'em for some odd reason.

I personally like all colors... when I see them they tell me I'm not blind.
Posted: Tue, 7th Jul 2009, 9:16am

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ben3308

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spydurhank wrote:

there are no green tints or grading as far as I can tell, on the actors or the film other than what is coming from nature itself which actually and definitely stands out BTW.
Precisely, and this is exactly what we're going for!

The greens are there, in the visual style (on purpose) but there's no blanket 'tinge' added in post to make it seem slapped on or 'just for the hell of it'. As with everything we do, the locations and wardrobe are chosen carefully to support the contrast we want in the color temperatures. Just as the actors only wore grey and blue in 'Marathon' (and walked around a mostly monochrome concrete jungle), here we have people in a factory with decaying greened metal walls, wearing neutral greys and blacks, to bolster what other color is already in the environment. The defense here is that no, this wasn't something we hastily added in post. It wasn't "grading gone wrong". It was motivated, important, and appropriate.

My point? We didn't slap any green on there in the grading, it's part of the film's aesthetic automatically. Therefore, it shouldn't be an issue, as if someone 'wrong' was done in post. Which is what we get a lot of crap for, mostly unwarranted. biggrin

Pick your locations and costume colors more carefully while keeping in mind the type of grading that you may use.
As I'm sure you're aware, these are two things we pay the most attention to. Why else film in dingy warehouses or large green levees? Why else have the protagonist remove his dark-toned jacket once he enters a relatively dark-toned area by the fence (answer: to increase contrast visually as the scene progresses, with the 'bad' and 'good' guys incidentally now wearing black and white, respectively). It's all motivated, all for the sake of color palette and lighting. And I'm glad you noticed. biggrin

Richard, as for bleach bypassing - well, that just would not have worked. I'm not saying I'm against it, just that you can't take an already highly contrasted image shot intentionally during the evening (dusk) for the sun's natural contrast and expect to ramp up the brightness (bleaching the whites) on the skin tones overall - the image doesn't have that kind of latitude, sorry. Trust me on lighting as it relates to grading, this is pretty much my forte. The sun was going down, and we wanted that look, that heavy rimlight on the edges of the body of the fleeing protagonist as he crosses the field to the border fence. If I wanted my brother to bleach bypass the footage, I wouldn't have shot that footage at that hour. Something that I think needs clarifying - we shoot with a grading scheme in mind, mostly. This is why our 'lighting' is normally a highlight of our work - because it naturally fits into the scene.

Anyone is welcome to disagree with me here, but spydurhank, you've said exactly what I've been waiting for someone to say for years - that the grading comes from the mise-en-scene, not just some filter. That's what we want! That's true aesthetics, in my opinion. wink
Posted: Tue, 7th Jul 2009, 4:38pm

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New Movie Stars Pictures

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Just great. a really good job.
Posted: Tue, 7th Jul 2009, 8:33pm

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Bryce007

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This reminded me of a 1990's low budget action sci-fi.

It was technically solid, but the Orwellian cliche is just too played out at this point. There wasn't a new "spin" on it, so I essentially lost interest halfway through due to my lack of care about the protagonist.

The narration was fitting seemingly, because the main character is in fact a writer.
Posted: Sat, 11th Jul 2009, 5:20am

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FXhomerTony

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Excellent. Good script. Good acting. Camera work and editing bang on. I can see Hollywood and the film industry in general will be challenged in the years to come by talent like yours. Think of all the money they toss on junk, when good films such as yours can be made for less. Good work.
Posted: Sat, 11th Jul 2009, 6:16am

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Atom

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Well, thanks Tony! Nothing's more encouraging and inspiring than hearing people talk of Hollywood and such in critiquing your work in a positive light. My brother and I hope to someday make it to Hollywood in the (hopefully) not too distant future, so we're always excited when we hear stuff like that from our audience.

As I said earlier, no word on the final awards yet ('Best of City', 'Best Cinematography', 'Best Acting', etc.) in both the Dallas and Austin competitions- but coming off of winning the Audience Award in both Dallas with 'A Love Not Standing' and Austin with 'Exodus', I'm pretty confident.

Annnnnnd, if we progress we get to compete against the other winning cities using a Panasonic HPX500 to shoot. And if we win that the competition gives us a Panasonic HPX170 as winning spoils. It's a long shot, but it's an exciting prospect.
Posted: Mon, 13th Jul 2009, 6:12am

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Garrison

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I really like this. This feels like it's a nice departure from what I'm used to seeing from you.

I liked the wardrobe of the cops a lot. It had a unique look to it that wasn't some decked out SWAT squad that we could associate with. It almost felt like I was watching Logan's Run.

The camera work was great too.

Locations varied in this (from the warehouse to the tunnels to the open fields) and I liked that.

The VO is always a tricky one. In a short, I could easily see why it may be needed. However I ask myself was there too much dialogue (not really sure at this point)? But it does fit the subject to me.

Acting I felt, was good and worked well.

My only critique that annoyed me was the swooshing sounds were too abundant and I found them a little distracting.

Overall a well done short.
Posted: Mon, 13th Jul 2009, 9:21am

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Atom

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Well thanks, Garrison!

As far as the swooshing sounds- heh, to each his own. I'm a big fan of building atmosphere through a specific type of sound-design, and I know I sometimes get a little overindulgent with it. Bassy tension sounds, swishes, and booms are both my gift and curse when it comes to editing. But it's (hopefully) not too distracting to pull the film down here, instead (hopefully, again) adding to it.
Posted: Tue, 14th Jul 2009, 12:03pm

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PLANB

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Nice work! I have not seen such brilliant cinematography and acting since your previous filn No Rest for the Wicked smile The guy in the SWAT outfit was from that other previous film wasn't he? He's a really good actor, keep up the good work!

P.S Did you win?
Posted: Wed, 15th Jul 2009, 3:57am

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Atom

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Thanks, PlanB!

No, we haven't found out if we've won yet. What we have found out is that we're in the top 10 for the entire city of Austin, that we already won the Audience Award (audience's choice for top film at the screening), and that the rest looks pretty promising. smile

Additionally, I won the Audience Award and am in the top 10 also in Dallas with my other film, 'A Love Not Standing'. We'll, hopefully, find out how both turn out in a few weeks.

And if we were really lucky, and both films win their respective cities, they'll go against eachother at NAB or Miami International or whatever the chosen final destination is. smile

And yes, that is the actor from No Rest For The Wicked (and Al Pacino from our 'Heat' parody, as well). His name is Trevor Gitlin and we've just been more and more impressed with him the longer and more ranging of projects he works with us on. He's starring in our next couple of movies, as well. Really talented and, somewhat unlike most of our former actors, also incredibly easy and non-confrontational to work with.

Hopefully you'll see more from our combo soon!
Posted: Wed, 15th Jul 2009, 8:57am

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Simon K Jones

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Gotta love the Gitlin.


It seems like it's taking a long time for the competition results to be announced. Does it usually take that long? It seems odd for the audience award to be done and dusted, but the other categories to take weeks and weeks.
Posted: Wed, 15th Jul 2009, 9:08am

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Atom

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Welcome to the 48 Hour, Tarn. As a business at least- slow, clunky, poorly-run, insanely expensive, and pretentious like no other.

What have we been saying for so long? smile
Posted: Wed, 15th Jul 2009, 9:12am

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Simon K Jones

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On a vaguely related note, have you ever considered putting together a little 'how to' guide for these 24/48 hour contests? Given the experience you guys have at them I imagine you could pull together all sorts of tips and tricks for fellow filmmakers that are considering entering similar contests. What to do, what not to do. I think it'd go down well.

I'm asking mainly because I'm contemplating entering a London one next year and wouldn't mind some advice. wink
Posted: Wed, 15th Jul 2009, 9:24am

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Atom

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Oh, Tarn- has Ben been talking so soon? It isn't near ready yet.

Ahem....


Coming soon. wink
Posted: Wed, 15th Jul 2009, 9:27am

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Simon K Jones

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Nice. smile
Posted: Wed, 15th Jul 2009, 9:27am

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spydurhank

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Wow dude!
Very cool. biggrin
Posted: Wed, 15th Jul 2009, 9:36am

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Atom

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I've composed enough diagrams and paragraphs for it to cover most bases in pre-production and bits of post; but I can't seem to get Ben to pull together the production end of the guide for- at least not completely yet.

You learn, as I imagine Sollthar did with his filmmaking guide, that it's a much more tedious and time-consuming task than you think it is- because you're not just explaining one facet to someone asking a question- you've got to go about asking yourself all possible questions and answering them in an understandable and achievable way.

Up to like 14 pages in Word now with it, hope to put it out on the forums soon.
Posted: Wed, 15th Jul 2009, 9:39am

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Simon K Jones

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Atom wrote:

You learn, as I imagine Sollthar did with his filmmaking guide, that it's a much more tedious and time-consuming task than you think it is- because you're not just explaining one facet to someone asking a question- you've got to go about asking yourself all possible questions and answering them in an understandable and achievable way.
Yeah, it's a tricky thing. The hardest one I've had so far is condensing the 'bamf' effect in the Superheroes short into a manageable video tutorial for the DVD. Easier said than done.
Posted: Thu, 16th Jul 2009, 9:36am

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Adman

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Tarn wrote:


I'm asking mainly because I'm contemplating entering a London one next year and wouldn't mind some advice. wink
Are you speaking of the SFL one Tarn?

I believe that the same competition that Atomic take part in is also coming to London in September. Here is the link;
http://www.48hourfilm.com/london/

Looks to be exciting stuff. I may take part in that after the fun I had with the Sci Fi.
Posted: Thu, 16th Jul 2009, 11:07am

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Simon K Jones

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Adman wrote:

Tarn wrote:


I'm asking mainly because I'm contemplating entering a London one next year and wouldn't mind some advice. wink
Are you speaking of the SFL one Tarn?
I am indeed! Gradually pulling together a little team here that are up for it. We're going to try to get an agent in London for pick-up and delivery so that we don't have to make the journey ourselves.

I believe that the same competition that Atomic take part in is also coming to London in September. Here is the link;
http://www.48hourfilm.com/london/

Looks to be exciting stuff. I may take part in that after the fun I had with the Sci Fi.
Mm, I'd like to, except having to actually do it in London would probably be too tricky and expensive. unsure
Posted: Thu, 16th Jul 2009, 11:15am

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Arktic

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We entered the London 48 Hour festival last year - it was AMAZING fun. Very tiring, but great.

Tarn - if you're interested, I'm sure we could work something out with accommodation and stuff for you guys to come down and take part!
Posted: Thu, 16th Jul 2009, 6:25pm

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Adman

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Arktic wrote:

We entered the London 48 Hour festival last year - it was AMAZING fun. Very tiring, but great.

Tarn - if you're interested, I'm sure we could work something out with accommodation and stuff for you guys to come down and take part!
Ah! The horror film about the homosexual one night stand. Was that you, Arktic?

Just out of interest, how much was entrance to the competition?
Posted: Thu, 16th Jul 2009, 6:28pm

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ben3308

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I love a tangential conversation just as much as the next guy, but let's be sure to stay on topic, especially in a film thread. biggrin

Registration for the ones I have done have ranged from 110 to 150 dollars, depending upon how good the venue for the screenings ended up being; and how early I registered.
Posted: Fri, 17th Jul 2009, 11:06am

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Arktic

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Adman wrote:

Ah! The horror film about the homosexual one night stand. Was that you, Arktic?

Just out of interest, how much was entrance to the competition?
Hah, great description - yeah, that was our film. Looking back, I think there were things we could have done better, but all in all, I'm still quite pleased with our efforts.

I think it cost about £90 - £100 to enter, but that included a couple of free tickets to the screening as well. It wasn't a huge amount when it was split between the team.

Cheers,
Arktic.

PS - Apologies for going off topic, Ben, but I think it's still relevant if we're talking about 48 hour films and stuff smile
Posted: Fri, 17th Jul 2009, 2:55pm

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Adman

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Arktic wrote:

Adman wrote:

Ah! The horror film about the homosexual one night stand. Was that you, Arktic?

Just out of interest, how much was entrance to the competition?
Hah, great description - yeah, that was our film. Looking back, I think there were things we could have done better, but all in all, I'm still quite pleased with our efforts.

I think it cost about £90 - £100 to enter, but that included a couple of free tickets to the screening as well. It wasn't a huge amount when it was split between the team.

Cheers,
Arktic.

PS - Apologies for going off topic, Ben, but I think it's still relevant if we're talking about 48 hour films and stuff smile
Arktic, I enjoyed the film very much, specifically the stylized elements. I was wondering what FXhomer pulled it together actually the other day, something reminded me of it.

Anyway, thread hijack over. Thanks for the info.
Posted: Fri, 17th Jul 2009, 4:09pm

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Simon K Jones

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When do you guys hear about the competition results?
Posted: Fri, 17th Jul 2009, 6:11pm

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ben3308

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We're making the 220 mile trek back to Austin early on the 27th, as that's the 'top ten' screenings where we find out who won what. The venue is really good - the Alamo Drafthhouse in Austin, which is one of those eat-while-you-watch places - so the timing is a bit longer. I'm happy to wait to hear the results if it means another screening for Exodus, especially at the Drafthouse, which Rodriguez is known to visit every week or so. smile

the difference with A Love Not Stabding is that they didn't have any finalists or followup screenings - they just invited all teams to a café to hear who won.

Anyhow, right after the awards in Austin, we'll back going almost a thousand miles north to do another 48. Exciting stuff!
Posted: Sun, 19th Jul 2009, 1:48pm

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voiceoverwizard

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Very nice cinematography. I like the storyline as well. I especially liked the line ...without it utopia can't exist. As if to suggest that utopia can exist. Sounds like something coming out of the Whitehouse recently. Very well made film, very professional looking I gave it a 5.
Posted: Thu, 23rd Jul 2009, 5:17am

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JUIDAR

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Wow I love the quality of your stuff you know how to capture the right angles with the right depth of color and perception to make it look like a really professionally shot project.

Kudos! Great stuff as always!
Posted: Thu, 23rd Jul 2009, 8:39am

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Atom

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Thanks, man! If there's a few things we try our damnedest to get right, it's first and foremost entertaining the viewer and then perfecting that 'cinematic feeling' through the atmosphere and technical orchestration you hopefully get from watching it.

Glad you liked it!
Posted: Wed, 29th Jul 2009, 6:58am

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ben3308

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So........we lost. We won cinematography, but not Best of City.

The one that won was awful. It was 5 minutes of four people sitting at a dinner table, covered in food. After 4 minutes, one speaks the required line of dialogue, to which another at the table responds 'F*ck you!'. Movie ends. I'm not making this up.

The aforementioned film won best use of character and line of dialogue, too. I'm pretty sure the crux of our film was that the character was a blogger. It wasn't even addressed in the winning film.

I'm pretty bitter about it. Three years of 48 hour films and I honestly feel like I deserve to win for once. I believe we made the best film in the entire city, and still were not chosen to win. When we made Marathon it was also overwhelmingly the best film there, given it was the only one that looked like a film and not a holiday recording. Humility has honestly only gotten me so far. It's things like this that make me feel embarrassed to have such tenacity about these contests when even the most amateur attempts can succeed above my own. I'm kind of fed up with it, really. If you're a judge, drop immediately any movie that would have no business in a film festival. (4:3 aspect, overexposed, etc.) Problem solved.
Posted: Wed, 29th Jul 2009, 7:12am

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Atom

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Don't also forget to mention Ben, that also while the judges were able to think up and give out everything from a 'Best Opening Credits' to a 'Best Keep Austin Weird' Award; they completely failed to name or give out some of the required awards, like, you know.....

Best Editing. They have a Best Acting, Best Ensemble Acting, Best Opening Credits, Best Graphics, Best Visual Effects, and Best Special Effects award- but no editing award?

And the Austin 48 hour started and was run with such promise- I guess it's to be expected that they fudge it up in picking completely scatter shot incredulous/unpredictable/incompetent judges.

Unlike Ben, I really didn't care at all if we won. I really liked our movie, but I also saw a lot of promise in other movies. I felt we tackled the required elements well, but saw others (less movie-ish and technically sound) tackle it slightly stronger. On the flipside, I saw some with excellent technicals but absolutely no required elements. I guess I thought one of these might be the victor.

But, no. In the end a movie with about 4 angles, one setting, and about 5 words with little to no impact won. And it won big, too, which to me is almost laughable. Best Use of Line. Best Use of Character. These are the things that push it over the edge for me. At least we tried to give our character some depth, we tried to make the blogger aspect clear; as did many other teams.

The winner? Nothing but a "I never thought about it that way...." followed by a "Fuckk you, Paul!" and end credits. No indication who or what these people are, nothing. Was Paul's last name Brewster? Was he a blogger? These were things that have, in every year I've done this, made paramountally clear by the officiators need to be evident.

And yet, the whole rule book to the competition itself, in the year we try our best to put the required elements into our film in an important, meaningful way- is basically thrown out.

And this movie with 'look, we put some friends in front of our camera' acting wins everything. I wanted to win, yes, but I'm not upset I didn't. I'm upset none of the deserving movies won, and all the awards went to one of the most questionably-made-in-48-hours, poorly-executed movies. I'm upset because our deserving actors didn't win. Because someone like Trevor, who comes essentially from nowhere and has such a startling range to his acting is trumped by a pensive-looking hipster who stares at a camera for a few minutes before saying "Fuckk you, Tom". I'm upset for Tyler, who pours his heart into a rant about leaving the dystopian state with such aching gravitas only to lose to another pensive-looking Austinite saying "I never thought about it that way" as if put in front of the camera really quickly and whispered from off-screen what to do and say in one take. I'm upset, and I know it shows.

I'm venting and bummed, yeah, but like Ben I kinda feel the same way- embarrassed I try and treat these things with such clout when it appear no matter which way you spin it, no matter how technically or narratively proficient, no matter how much you stick to your required elements (and the winner got DRAMA of all genres- and it played entirely like a bad comedy!)- the outcome has no compass. The winner can be completely piss poor and random.

This was a feeling I really held in and felt hard after I, for the first year, didn't even make finals in the 24 hour with what I most-assuredly considered my best movie to date (No Rest)- but I can't hold it in here, not when the salt in the wound of the person who won is so doubly upsetting.

And they didn't even have a 'Best Editing' category at the end of the day, so there's that once more too.

FML.
Posted: Wed, 29th Jul 2009, 8:18am

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Simon K Jones

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That's a shame guys. Sounds like the results were pretty wonky all round.

The problem with these kind of contests is that if the judges don't have a really strict set of assessment guidelines, it'll just come down to personal preference, which relies entirely on them not being buffoons.

And as we know, there's a lot of buffoons in the world.
Posted: Wed, 29th Jul 2009, 10:17am

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spydurhank

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Wow dude... that really blows and I know how that feels.
I think you shouldn't feel to bad though because if you lose to someone that didn't really follow the criteria of the rules of the contest... What does that tell you about the judges and the way the contest itself is being run? Here's an example.

I've entered 5 art contests in the past 3 or 4 months.
They all called for renders of 5 super hero kids with ages ranging from 11 to 14. My first four renders, I went out of my way to make sure that they all looked like little kids, body type, face, that kind of thing.
Most of the other artists made their renders look like adults which was clearly visible since they gave the female characters big boobs and high heels among other things. I think that 1 or 2 of the artists that actually drew kids might have won but I don't remember, the other winners were the ones that drew adults. They as well won by a landslide.

I realized later that the guy who posted the contest wasn't a judge, he put out a call for any viewer of the art to cast a vote for their favorite. After a little research I found out that the guys that were winning were just having all of their friends vote for them. I had a few votes for my work from folks that actually honestly liked it but I asked my friends that knew about the contest, not to vote for me because I figured that it'd be unfair and almost like cheating since your friends are gonna vote for you just because well... because their your friends.

So in the end it turns out that it wasn't an art contest after all. It was a popularity contest and whomever had the most friends was going to win wether they followed the rules or not. It's not exactly the same as what happened to you guys but the similarity in the unfair department of the voting kinda sticks out. But I take it with a grain of salt and keep entering art contests because their might be at least one person out there that likes my work and could possibly hire me. You never know dude. The same goes for you guys man.

Keep doing what you're doing guys because you're really good at it.
I feel bad for everyone that worked on your project because everyone did and amazing job. I might go as far as telling your guys that work with you in your future projects... don't expect to win because the judging panel is a little sketchy but we're still gonna do the best job that we can. Vulcan judges suck sometimes dude so don't let them get you guys down.

Frank.
Posted: Wed, 29th Jul 2009, 5:59pm

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I guess it just comes down to, as prideful as it sounds, having a similar to Oscar situation of being 'robbed'- in that we were really given every indication we were going to win. We got the Audience Award at the screening, the audience gave us a noticeably better and overwhelmingly positive reaction compared to the overall winner (who played right after us at the initial screening), the producer of the event lauded our movie as if it had won, we got emailed questions about it and how we put it together from 48 hour people and fellow contestants, and were finally part of the top ten.

All this, perhaps in our own cocky overexpectation, made it hard not to think we had won. People had said so, the producer thought so, and really so did we. The fact that the winner, in multiple categories, was a movie I didn't even bat an eyelash at as competition- well, it both makes me feel negatively cocky/shitty for discounting that movie (after all, even though the movie clearly didn't follow any of the rules and I didn't care for it doesn't mean I have any right to get angry at them for winning. It was the judges, not the winners who poorly chose.) and yearning for some validation for the movies that didn't win.

I won Dallas, yeah, that's cool. And I get to go to Vegas for it, yeah. But it's no fun when you can't do it with the people you work with, with your brother, and your friends. It just won't be the same. And while I love Greg and John and A Love Not Standing, there's just something not fully satisfying in the win. Because most importantly, it won't have been Atomic.

And worst of all, the winning film has np chance against nationals, which is a shame. These judges need p start looking at a larger scope- just like Dallas the previous two years, when you pick a weak entry as a winner you shouldn't be 'OMG!' surprised when they can't compete in the post-season national competitions; in turnaling the whole city look bad. unsure
Posted: Fri, 31st Jul 2009, 2:50pm

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davlin

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Beautiful job,story ,acting , cinematography and production values all
first class could'nt fault it.

Well done Ben &Co


Dave


www.davlin-studio.co.uk
Posted: Wed, 23rd Jun 2010, 6:58pm

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In the spirit of the fact that we're about to do this again this weekend, and because I got a newsletter with it as 'Movie of the Week' from the 48hr people- here is the movie that beat us last year for 'best of city', despite Exodus winning many of the other primary categories:

The Grownups.

Also, something I noticed in seeing it again, is that the wrong line of dialogue is used/mispoken. And it won 'best use of line'. And their category was comedy. Heh. rolleyes

But enough with being a sore loser! We're uber-excited about this weekend, and our many other things to come- and I just thought I might mention it to all of you guys as well! Wish us luck!
Posted: Wed, 23rd Jun 2010, 7:13pm

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Sollthar

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Heh, I really liked this. Reminded me of a play I acted in which had a similar scene.


Good luck this year then!
Posted: Thu, 24th Jun 2010, 7:45am

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davlin

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Yes indeed...GOODLUCK guys.

Dave
Posted: Thu, 24th Jun 2010, 6:26pm

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Sollthar

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It might be worth sitting down and looking at this winning film and trying to analyze why it won - because to be honest, I'm not overly surprised it won over yours. Especially in terms of acting and content, despite the fact it's technicals are rather mediocre.
Maybe you can learn something off it and incorporate this in your next if winning is still your goal. Looks like judges in that festival come from a similar background and think similarly to judges over here.
Posted: Thu, 24th Jun 2010, 10:12pm

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Well it's not so much that 'we lost and THIS won' as it is just 'this won'; as there were in my opinion several massively better movies in the running- some better than mine- and all ones that adhered to the required elements much stronger and in the case of the line of dialogue: ACTUALLY used the right line.

Now, am I one to say I think you should adhere to the required elements to a tee and that's it? No, of course not. But this winner just didn't at all sit well with me- even worse because it DIDN'T win any of the categorical awards except, ironically, 'best use of line'.

Now this isn't to say their movie isn't good- it is, or that I know judging best- I don't. I'm just saying. At the end of the day I don't care if I win or conform to what others have done that is winning- I strongly and solely care about making the best kind of movie I want to and can in the time I have; regardless of whether I win or not. It is, of course, not a bad side-effect if it happens. wink
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2010, 7:45am

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davlin

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Quote
"At the end of the day I don't care if I win or conform to what others have done that is winning- I strongly and solely care about making the best kind of movie I want to and can in the time I have; regardless of whether I win or not. It is, of course, not a bad side-effect if it happens."

Spoken like a true film maker.

Dave
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2010, 2:43pm

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Sollthar

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Yep, I have pretty much the same attitude so that's definately a healthy stand. Maybe not always the best tactically, but still. smile

Just thought since you two seemed so bitter about losing that it might be worth it. But you're absolutely right. Winning isn't everything.
Posted: Fri, 25th Jun 2010, 7:58pm

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Well, my bitterness is also a react to the kind of people that made the movie- haughty, snarky, hipster types who clearly thought they had the best thing out there (and, truly, didn't in my opinion) only to be validated by winning.

Like if James Cameron won Best Picture for Avatar. wink