You are viewing an archive of the old fxhome.com forums. The community has since moved to hitfilm.com.

Sky Looks Artificial-Small Square Pixels After Effects Added

Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 3:32pm

Post 1 of 21

FXhomerTony

Force: 945 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 133

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Good Morning from California,
I have had another problem arising when I add effects; my scene has a bright sky- which looks fine before I add the effects, but afterward square pixel shapes appear which gives the sky a mosaic look. Any Ideas?
Thanks,
FXhomerTony
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 3:34pm

Post 2 of 21

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Can you show us an example image of this? Do the square shapes appear on the canvas, or only after you've rendered?
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 3:46pm

Post 3 of 21

FXhomerTony

Force: 945 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 133

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Hi Tarn,
I'll have to get back to you later on that one- I am not on my effects computer at the moment. I will sent you an example- tonight (california time), but as I recall the canvas looked clean- it was only after rendering.
Good hearing from you,
FXhomerTony
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 3:49pm

Post 4 of 21

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

If that is the case, it's most probably down to the codec you used when rendering. Low quality codecs can reduce quality and introduce compression artefacts similar to what you describe. It's probably happened across the whole iamge, but is more visible on the sky.

We tend to use the Quicktime Animation codec for when we absolutely need to retain quality. If you are using DV resolution video you can also render out to the DV codec to keep filesizes small.
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 3:55pm

Post 5 of 21

FXhomerTony

Force: 945 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 133

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Hi Tarn,
Understand the first part of your statement- didn't quite follow the last sentence. Could you explain further- please excuse me, but I'm still a novice.
Thanks,
FXhomerTony
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 3:58pm

Post 6 of 21

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Rating: +1

Within the AVI and MOV video formats there are lots of different codecs you can use. Codecs (COmpressor DECompressor) determine how the video is processed, with some emphasising quality and other emphasising a small filesize.

Therefore some codecs are designed for use during the editing process, when retaining quality is the priority. Other codecs are designed for final delivery, perhaps for uploading to the Internet or burning to a DVD, at which point keeping a small filesize becomes more important.

In our products you choose the codec after selecting the 'Render' option from the render menu.
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 4:00pm

Post 7 of 21

FXhomerTony

Force: 945 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 133

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Hi Tarn,
Also, I believe I tried rendering once in Quicktime, but my computer said that it didn't support that? That is why I have always used avi.
Thanks,
FXhomerTony
Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2009, 4:28pm

Post 8 of 21

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Obvious question: Do you have Quicktime installed? smile
Posted: Tue, 7th Jul 2009, 1:08am

Post 9 of 21

FXhomerTony

Force: 945 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 133

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Hi,

Have tried MOV.(Quicktime)for rendering and pixel sky still present. Did get same warning regarding playing quicktime on my computer, but said it may able to play any way- which it did. As an aside, editing is being done on Vegas. I also have a photo but am trying to find a way to attach it.Canvas looked okay before rendering.
Thanks, FXhomerTony
Posted: Tue, 7th Jul 2009, 3:15am

Post 10 of 21

rogolo

Force: 5436 | Joined: 29th May 2005 | Posts: 1513

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 User MacOS User

Gold Member

To upload a photo, jump over to a site like ImageShack.us and upload your image. Then, get the direct link and enclose it in two [img] tags, like so:

[img]http://domain.com/image.jpg[/img]


Also, shouldn't this belong in a support forum?
Posted: Tue, 7th Jul 2009, 3:20pm

Post 11 of 21

FXhomerTony

Force: 945 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 133

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Thank you rogolo. I have written down your instructions. Since the problem occured with EffectsLab I had thought this was the right site, however you are right- support would have been better. Sorry. I have already sent the photo to Tarn through the support e-mail address- I sent it as an attachment. It is small, but the distortion can be seen in the background as a type of pixel rainbow. This occurs in several other cuts with the bright sky background. Also, I need to add that these were green screen composites- may this be a factor?
Thanks again,
FXhomerTony
Posted: Tue, 7th Jul 2009, 7:09pm

Post 12 of 21

Axeman

Force: 17995 | Joined: 20th Jan 2002 | Posts: 6124

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

SuperUser

Its not really possible to say definitively before we see an image. There is a possibility that if the greenscreen is quite wrinkled though, that remnants of the wrinkle shapes are still in the footage, and weren't entirely keyed out. Once he sees the image Tarn should be able to give some very specific suggestions.
Posted: Tue, 7th Jul 2009, 8:10pm

Post 13 of 21

FXhomerTony

Force: 945 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 133

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Axeman,

The original photo I gave Tarn was too small. He asked for a HD photo.
I had used my AOL e-mail and adjusted the photo size by clicking on the adjust photo for e-mail option so it would attach- there is a size limit. Tonight I was going to try Rogolo suggestion- I'm not quite sure exactly how that works, but I believe it is a hosting site and when I upload the photo and place Tarn's address in the place of the domain.com he should receive it. What would be an ideal size? The photo I am sending is a frame capture from the video.
Thanks,
FXhomerTony
Posted: Tue, 7th Jul 2009, 8:28pm

Post 14 of 21

Axeman

Force: 17995 | Joined: 20th Jan 2002 | Posts: 6124

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

SuperUser

You are close. You upload the photo, then place the address of the photo in your post, in place of the domain.com. If you just type in the address, it will create a link to the photo, which is fine. If you put [img] tags around it, as Rogolo explained, then it will embed the image directly in your post. This is good for smaller images, but for anything of very high resolution it might be best to stick with a link.

examples:
(www.imageshack.us/image.jpg) will create a link to the image at that address. Don't put it in parentheses though.

([img]www.imageshack.us/image.jpg[/img]) will embed the image that is at that address. Don't put in the parentheses though.

Ideally, the photo would be the same resolution as the video footage, so it is full size. Once there is a link to the video here, then Tarn or I or anyone can look at it to offer suggestions.
Posted: Wed, 8th Jul 2009, 8:07am

Post 15 of 21

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Hey Tony - thanks for the bigger images. It looksd to me like at some point you've used a low quality codec, or a codec set to low quality settings, which has reduced the number of colours in the frame. The is particularly noticeable on the sky due to it being a gradient.

If you're seeing this effect while working in VisionLab, it's probably in the source video file itself. Try playing that outside of VisionLab to check. What settings did you use to create the source video file that you're applying effects to?
Posted: Wed, 8th Jul 2009, 4:01pm

Post 16 of 21

FXhomerTony

Force: 945 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 133

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Hi Tarn,
Thanks again. I will have to backtrack. But I am not using VisionLab, but EffectsLab (I believe they are two differnt products?). The video plays fine initially on my editing program- Vegas 9, but only shows up after adding effects and rendering in EffectsLab. Intially, it is not visible on the EffectsLab canvas before rendering. The setting on my camera when shooting is FINE, and I looked high and low for the CODEC information on the camera and have not been able to find it (JVC HD Camcorder). This is a new problem- did not see it during filming and editing of Part 1.
Thanks again- please let me know if you have any more ideas.
Tony
Posted: Wed, 8th Jul 2009, 4:06pm

Post 17 of 21

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Ah right, I misinterpreted you there, then, sorry! The problem will almost certainly be with the codec you're using when exporting out of EffectsLab. What render settings are you using?

(also, you can use the little 'edit' button on your own posts to fix them without having to re-post. I've fixed your typo for you in this case) smile
Posted: Wed, 8th Jul 2009, 4:29pm

Post 18 of 21

FXhomerTony

Force: 945 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 133

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Tarn,Thanks. I'll get this "posting" thing down, yet! I'll have to go home and take a look tonight and get back to you - I've tried different settings- including your suggestion of MOV. instead of AVI., and sort of lost track.
Thanks again,
Tony
Posted: Wed, 8th Jul 2009, 4:35pm

Post 19 of 21

Axeman

Force: 17995 | Joined: 20th Jan 2002 | Posts: 6124

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

SuperUser

.MOV and .AVI aren't codecs, they are formats. Either one of them will have a dozen or so options for which codec to render to. For .mov files, after you hit Render, you name the file in a new window, then you get another window where you select the codec, or "Compression type." I assume it works similarly for .avi's. Try rendering to the .mov "Animation" codec.
Posted: Wed, 8th Jul 2009, 7:25pm

Post 20 of 21

FXhomerTony

Force: 945 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 133

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Hi Axeman,

I understood that they were different formats- however, I was NOT aware of the choices- even though Tarn had mentioned them earlier. I was so used to rushing through the rendering process- and assuming everything was correct that I didn't explore further.
I did find the animation setting and will try it tonight. Will keep my fingers crossed.
Thanks again for the helpful suggestions,
Tony
Posted: Wed, 8th Jul 2009, 9:33pm

Post 21 of 21

FXhomerTony

Force: 945 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 133

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

THANK YOU...THANK YOU...THANK YOU (and did I say THANK YOU!)
I went home at lunch and tried the different rendering settings- Axeman's original suggestion didn't work (my computer even though it has Quicktime does not like .MOV) but when it did render, the artifacts were still there. However, when I went back to .AVI and started trying the different settings (specifically cinepac) the artifacts disappeared. This was a good lesson in rendering. Thank you Tarn, Axeman, and evryone else who helped me along on this one- it put "War of the Worlds" Part 2 back on track!