You are viewing an archive of the old fxhome.com forums. The community has since moved to hitfilm.com.

James Cameron's Avatar *Spoilers*

Page 1 of 5: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 | Next

Posted: Tue, 18th Aug 2009, 8:10pm

Post 1 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

EDIT:

THEATRICAL TRAILER: http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809804784/trailer




Teaser:

480p

720p

1080p


According to apple.com/trailers right now it is exactly 1 day, 17 hours and 50 minutes until the teaser trailer comes out exclusively on iTunes and I feel jittery all over. It so much sooner than I thought, but Fox are going in high gear now to build up Avatar's name to heights that they hope will have every average movie-goer as brainwashed as I am that the film will be the most awesome thing ever. Still as close as it is, I feel I can hardly wait that long. Like a little child on Christmas Eve.


A quick overlook of the premise for those of you that haven't been following this film:

A sci-fi movie from 20th Century Fox, "Avatar" centers on a wounded ex-marine, who is thrust unwillingly into an effort to settle and exploit an exotic planet rich in bio-diversity, and eventually crosses over to lead the indigenous race in a battle for survival.
Also we have a new picture to watch while we're waiting. Here we see the main character Jake Sully (Sam Worthington) in the foreground with his Na'vi Avatar in the background suspended in some sort of Star Wars like Bacta Tank.




Also for those of you (lucky bastards) who are based in The States or Canada:

20th Century Fox has come out with the ticket detail announcement for the scheduled Avatar day. For the free screening of fifteen minutes of "Avatar" on August 21, the studio will be giving away free first-come, first-serve tickets through the official Avatar website, AvatarMovie.com, starting on Monday, August 17 at noon PST.

The screenings will be taking place in 101 IMAX venues in the U.S. and Canada and will be run twice at 6:00 P.M. and at 6:30 P.M. The sneak peek itself will include an introduction from the director, footage shown at screenings at exhibitor events in Hollywood and Amsterdam, and some new footage that were not shown at 2009 San Diego Comic Con.
Might seem like a desperate tactic, but let's not forget that non-franchise movies never cost this much unless they are a sequel, and what all the money was used for, in this case, cannot be portrayed in TV Spots. It's an excellent word of mouth tactic. At least it's shows that they are confident about the footage, and that a Pantom Menace type of let down might yet be unlikely. I, for one, (who has been ranting about this movies greatness to anyone who would listen for about two years now) am waiting to see what kind of hype Fox will have built up by early December, and how. I think such an expensive and out-of-nowhere brand building has rarely been done before in film (any examples would be welcome), and the politician in me can't wait to see just how much you can influence people with the right kind of funding.

We'll see. biggrin biggrin

Last edited Thu, 17th Dec 2009, 2:38pm; edited 8 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 18th Aug 2009, 8:15pm

Post 2 of 865

Rockfilmers

Force: 2182 | Joined: 10th May 2007 | Posts: 1376

VisionLab User PhotoKey 4 User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I can't wait for this. The story sounds cliche, but interesting. I also like 3d movies so that ads to it smile
Posted: Tue, 18th Aug 2009, 9:18pm

Post 3 of 865

No Respite Productions

Force: 985 | Joined: 4th Dec 2006 | Posts: 482

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

So the trailer is just going to be released on iTunes?

Any joy for those of us who don't like using Apples' retarded software or am I going to have to put up with dodgy hacked YouTube versions?

Call me crazy but if you're going to try and sell something then sticking it in one specific corner of the web isn't a smart move.

Still all the same I'm looking forward to this, Sam Worthington really impressed me in Terminator Salvation so I can't wait to see him in this.
Posted: Tue, 18th Aug 2009, 9:41pm

Post 4 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

No Respite Productions wrote:

So the trailer is just going to be released on iTunes?

Any joy for those of us who don't like using Apples' retarded software or am I going to have to put up with dodgy hacked YouTube versions?

Call me crazy but if you're going to try and sell something then sticking it in one specific corner of the web isn't a smart move.
I guess for a short while. These 'exclusive' trailers are normally only exclusive for a few days. I think iTunes is a step down from simply posting it on apple.com/trailers (which is essentially QuickTime, also Apple software by the way), but it might be because downloads are easier to measure on iTunes? So they can get a clue as to how screwed/not screwed they are in making their money back? I don't know.

No Respite Productions wrote:

Still all the same I'm looking forward to this, Sam Worthington really impressed me in Terminator Salvation so I can't wait to see him in this.
Him being in Terminator Salvation was a part of James Cameron's marketing plan. JC thought he would like a fresh face for Avatar, but not to fresh. Someone who was current would be best, I think he thought. So he basically told McG to cast him in Terminator Salvation. McG then auditioned him and cast him (like he was gonna say no to the creator of Terminator). Now Worthington has some credibility. Pretty good move, eh?
Posted: Tue, 18th Aug 2009, 9:52pm

Post 5 of 865

No Respite Productions

Force: 985 | Joined: 4th Dec 2006 | Posts: 482

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Thanks for the explanation about iTunes, as long as I don't have to wait too long to see it wink

That was pretty slick, quite unusual but if it's worked for me then no doubt it's worked for quite a few others as well.
Posted: Tue, 18th Aug 2009, 11:12pm

Post 6 of 865

RodyPolis

Force: 805 | Joined: 28th Apr 2007 | Posts: 1839

CompositeLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

The plot sounds so simple and uninterresting. But if it got a good story, good acting, some sick effects and stuff blowing up then I'm usually happy smile
Posted: Wed, 19th Aug 2009, 12:57am

Post 7 of 865

rogolo

Force: 5436 | Joined: 29th May 2005 | Posts: 1513

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 User MacOS User

Gold Member

No Respite Productions wrote:

So the trailer is just going to be released on iTunes?

Any joy for those of us who don't like using Apples' retarded software or am I going to have to put up with dodgy hacked YouTube versions?
Well seeing as the banner says 'Coming to iTunes Movie Trailers', and the apple.com/trailers page is titled iTunes Movie Trailers, I'd hazard a guess that they will indeed offer it up at apple.com/trailers so it will reach a broader audience and only require Quicktime to play.

I wouldn't have minded it either way, however, as I enjoy using Apple's "retarded" software, as No Respite so tactfully put it.
Posted: Wed, 19th Aug 2009, 5:12am

Post 8 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

And even if it's exclusive to iTunes or Quicktime for whatever reason, let's be honest, that doesn't really mean a whole lot on the internet. It'll be on Youtube within minutes of 'release', and when that link gets canned by the distributors, there'll be another one somewhere else, and so on.
Posted: Wed, 19th Aug 2009, 6:25am

Post 9 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

rogolo wrote:

Well seeing as the banner says 'Coming to iTunes Movie Trailers', and the apple.com/trailers page is titled iTunes Movie Trailers
I feel stupid. doh

I have downloaded over a hundred trailers there over the years and never noticed that. You are absolutely right. It will most likely be exclusive to apple.com for a while, but hey, that's just normal these days. I think studios like to know that their trailers are being watched with decent sound and picture quality to give a best impression of the film. Especially with blockbusters.
Posted: Wed, 19th Aug 2009, 4:59pm

Post 10 of 865

No Respite Productions

Force: 985 | Joined: 4th Dec 2006 | Posts: 482

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Staff Only wrote:

rogolo wrote:

Well seeing as the banner says 'Coming to iTunes Movie Trailers', and the apple.com/trailers page is titled iTunes Movie Trailers
I feel stupid. doh

I have downloaded over a hundred trailers there over the years and never noticed that.
I've only ever used RSS feeds from Apples trailers so that escaped me too.

Ah well, only one day to go then.
Posted: Wed, 19th Aug 2009, 8:00pm

Post 11 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Once again, I'm going to say that this is not going to be the greatest thing ever, and it won't blow people away as much as Star Wars did.

The fact still remains that the vast majority of people are not going to see this in Cameron's 3-D. Meaning, that for most people, the film will not be groundbreaking in any way. Sure, the visual effects are supposed to be out of this world revolutionary... but the fact is that we have seen CGI before. And early reports from people who have seen footage indicates that you still can tell what is CGI and what isn't. So why do some people think it's going to be the greatest thing ever? What's so special about it?

Don't get me wrong... I'm hoping to be blown away. I'm just utterly perplexed about the hype this is getting. It's like me saying Steven Spielberg's next movie is going to be the greatest movie ever.

I just don't think anyone should be crazily hyping "Avatar" until the trailer comes out. After that, all bets are off. smile
Posted: Wed, 19th Aug 2009, 8:24pm

Post 12 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

jawajohnny wrote:

I just don't think anyone should be crazily hyping "Avatar" until the trailer comes out. After that, all bets are off. smile
Yes, remember that this is the teaser we are talking about. It can be anything from excellent to completely unrevealing. I think it might have some footage inn it, considering how many people have seen footage of the actual film and how hyped the teaser is at apple.com, but tomorrow this time we might still not know how this film will look. unsure
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 3:56am

Post 13 of 865

Bryce007

Force: 1910 | Joined: 5th Apr 2003 | Posts: 2609

VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +2

The first teaser is AMAZING.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYBRFJ9RArc
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 4:25am

Post 14 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Looks alright. The Na'vi aren't as lifelike as I would have liked, but I guess they still have time to tweak it.
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 1:49pm

Post 15 of 865

rogolo

Force: 5436 | Joined: 29th May 2005 | Posts: 1513

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 User MacOS User

Gold Member

Looks pretty sick, Bryce. However, I have discovered that that trailer is a fake! Notice how they misspell the title of the film of the end? It's subtle, but they write Avetar instead of Avatar...that's how you can tell.....the trailer had me believing until that small mistake....
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 2:48pm

Post 16 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/avatar/
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 2:56pm

Post 17 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

jawajohnny wrote:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/avatar/
Those links don't work yet, here:

480p

720p

1080p
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 3:08pm

Post 18 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Looks like an awesome World of Warcraft vs Starcraft cutscene.
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 3:22pm

Post 19 of 865

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Just a heads up : There are Teaser screenings in the UK at London's IMAX this Friday too...

I was tempted to get tickets (an email came round the office) but when I thought about it - I'd like to go in to Avatar not knowing too much.

I think the teaser trailer is looking interesting. Though the blue alien race really remind me of World of Warcrafts Night Elves, I'll let it pass.

Hopefully Avatar will be the 3rd great Sci-Fi this year.
-Matt
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 3:51pm

Post 20 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Despite the giant failings of Transformers 2, it has been a pretty good year for sci-fi so far, with Watchmen, Star Trek and Moon. Avatar + District 9 could make it a real year to remember!
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 4:16pm

Post 21 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Staff Only wrote:

jawajohnny wrote:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/avatar/
Those links don't work yet
Ooops. Little too quick to post. Anyways, they work now. smile

Tarn wrote:

Despite the giant failings of Transformers 2, it has been a pretty good year for sci-fi so far, with Watchmen, Star Trek and Moon. Avatar + District 9 could make it a real year to remember!
Indeed, so far it has been an excellent year for sci-fi. I'm glad to see it's becoming more popular and accessible.

As for the trailer itself, it's very good. It seems like just the thing George Lucas has always wanted to do. He just did his special editions and prequels a few years too early. smile I'm glad that Cameron has been able to take it this far, and has shared the secrets with the likes of Lucas, Spielberg, and Jackson. It's truly great filmmaking.

But... I can't help but wonder how it looks in it's "intended" 3-D form. If anyone sees it that way, let us know what you think!
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 4:36pm

Post 22 of 865

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Looks like an interesting "Aliens meet Lord of the rings with a highprofile RPG game design mixed in" film. The Teaser doesn't WOW me as much as I had hoped, but it certainly looks big, epic, well made (though I do have some trouble with blue Aliens really...) and it's James Cameron, so I'm definately looking forwars to this! cool

EDIT: On a sidenote: "from the director of TITANIC"??? Seriously? Cameron created sci-fi gems as Terminator and Aliens and Abyss. Surely, either one would be a better reference then titanic? smile
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 5:16pm

Post 23 of 865

No Respite Productions

Force: 985 | Joined: 4th Dec 2006 | Posts: 482

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Hmmmmm.

Before I watch it for a second time my quick thoughts...

Firstly, the CGI here looks mind blowingly good...

I'll echo the doubts about the blue aliens, although I think they'll just take some getting used to and after a while they'll merge into the film itself.

Where I think this has me really excited was the glimpses of the much alluded to aerial battle and the underlying score throughout the trailer is just absolutely simmering with energy, the hairs on the back of my neck still haven't gone down.

<presses play again>
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 5:51pm

Post 24 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Sollthar wrote:

On a sidenote: "from the director of TITANIC"??? Seriously? Cameron created sci-fi gems as Terminator and Aliens and Abyss. Surely, either one would be a better reference then titanic?
Titanic is the highest-grossing film of all time. #1 at the U.S. and worldwide box office. AND it won Best Picture.

It looks like they're trying to reach as broad an audience as possible. Sci-fi fans, and James Cameron fans already know about this movie. But average moviegoers don't. "From the director of Titanic" will generate a lot of interest where it normally wouldn't.
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 6:26pm

Post 25 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Okey, I've calmed down and have come to terms with some things. Firstly before I criticise it; the trailer looks amazing. Secondly it does not look as photoreal as JC said it would. I am particularly disappointed in the metal rendering in the trailer. I don't know if it will be improved like The Statue of Liberty's head in Cloverfield was, or what happened, but I was expecting Transformers 2 standard on everything metal, and Davy Jones standard on everything alive, and beyond. I mean: "Those things have been accomplished photoreal before...by ILM. It's not like it can't be done". Now I was very disappointed when JC picked Weta Digital over ILM to take him to infinity and beyond, mostly because I thought after The Abyss, Terminator 2 and Titanic they friggin deserve his loyalty. It didn't cross my mind that Weta after 4 years and 200mill $ could fail to do what ILM did with the same amount of money in three months for Pirates 3. I mean I was under the impression that Optimus Prime+Davy Jones proves that photorealism is reality. I thought the time Avatar was taking to make was because of a relentless amount of tweaking and the sheer amount of insanely heavy VFX shots they had to render, not because just getting it up to photoreal (which is mostly up to lighting and texturing) was going to be such a pain (I think their problem is that nothing in Avatar has a real life counterpart to study. All Weta's work is guesswork). That is my criticism.

On the up side I thought most of it looked amazingly sweet. The Na'vi blow Gollum and King Kong away, and I will wait until I have seen the film to say if they actually can take on Davy Jones (it isn't a fair fight as Davy Jones is brown, lit with Earth lighting, and keyframed to perfection while every friggin thing in Avatar exists in JC's mind and so it's twice the work make look real). By all means this looks better effects-wise than any of The Prequels or any Lord of the Rings, but Transformers and Pirates have set the bar here.

There are some rumors that things look a bit funky because they are all rendered and lit to look their best in RealD and that results in the tweaking looking a bit off sometimes in 2D. I'll buy that. But there is a feeling in the trailer that they spendt all their time fighting the uncanny valley with the Na'vi and had to neglect the metal.

Don't get me wrong I'm still as exited, but I think the marketing department dropped the ball here (unless they just wanted to jerk down expectations a little). If I was them, I would have taken a few easily sold effects-shots asked Weta to render them to perfection, not messed with the framrate through the whole thing (a lower framrate can really hurt CGIs credibily) and turned it into a teaser that met peoples expectations and teased them, in stead of spilled the beans (in 2D no less). I'm possibly going to be able to see it in RealD so if it's going to be mind-blowing I'll wait to see. I'm still as hopeful. biggrin biggrin biggrin
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 6:30pm

Post 26 of 865

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

I agree with you, the metal looks awful. The Na'avi are pretty much exactly what I expected, though, which is a good thing. Looking forward to seeing this in RealD. Should be pretty good (though, obviously, not the masterpiece Cameron makes it out to be).
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 6:40pm

Post 27 of 865

No Respite Productions

Force: 985 | Joined: 4th Dec 2006 | Posts: 482

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I agree that the metal rendering did look a little off, but seeing the Na'avi and the forests themselves, I wonder if the metal related subjects are just something they can quickly sort out between now and December, with most of the grunt work so far being on the organic matter?

As for the trailer itself, I'm kind of glad that I now have a better idea as to what this film is going to be like. Proper Teasers sometimes can be way too infuriating, there seems to be this trend among videogame developers at the moment to release these teasers on XBOX live that are nothing more than 15 second animated vids of the title itself... which feels like a complete waste of my time and I've learnt nothing more than I did when I discovered that this new game had a trailer.

I suppose as they were making such a big deal about the trailer launch date, they kind of backed themselves into a corner and had to deliver something substantial.

On an unrelated note, it's nice to see something like this coming out in December rather than being muddled in with the rest of the big blockbusters.
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 6:42pm

Post 28 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Pooky wrote:

Should be pretty good (though, obviously, not the masterpiece Cameron makes it out to be).
Well to be fair to the movie (not Cameron) he has only been going on about the effects and not the actual film. Judging by Cameron's previous works this films has a high chance of being: epic, gripping, masterfully paced, and have some good characters. It may yet be a brilliant masterpiece of a sci-fi film (Terminator 2, The Abyss, Aliens style) even it the effects do turn out to be hit and miss (King Kong style which happens to be Weta's crowning achievement before this. Why he didn't choose ILM who largely produce hit and hit effects I still don't know, but the actual result remains to be seen).

No Respite Productions wrote:

I wonder if the metal related subjects are just something they can quickly sort out between now and December, with most of the grunt work so far being on the organic matter?
Hopefully. It all comes down to how much render time they have (considering ILM did Pirates 3 in 3-4 months it might work). If the things are already animated they can just upgrade the texturing in important shots and re-light them and render again.

No Respite Productions wrote:

I suppose as they were making such a big deal about the trailer launch date, they kind of backed themselves into a corner and had to deliver something substantial.
I agree, and it was probably for the best. No we know what it is, and they wont have to deal with (as much) "Phantom Menace over-hype backlash" in December.

No Respite Productions wrote:


On an unrelated note, it's nice to see something like this coming out in December rather than being muddled in with the rest of the big blockbusters.
That would be JC and Fox fishing for Academy Awards. I really hope it works although I also hope Lovely Bones does well. I'm torn I guess. razz
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 7:10pm

Post 29 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

I'd pretty much guarantee that most of the images in the trailer are not final renders. Most trailers are completed a good while before they are released, so who knows how long this has been sitting around? A lot of the shots look like very early renders.

And again, the main draw of the movie isn't the "photo-realistic" CGI, but Cameron's new 3D technology. That's the thing that's supposed to be revolutionary. CGI is CGI, no matter what anyone says. Seeing everything as if you're in it, or looking through a window, would change you're perspective quite a bit, I imagine.

No, the aliens don't look as good as Davy Jones. Davy Jones was brownish/green... which are much more natural colors than deep blue. I remember the VFX workers on Eragon had to make Saphira a light blue color, because they said deep, dark blue is not a color that shows up in nature, therefore she wouldn't have appeared as photo-realistic as she does in light blue (even though she's supposed to be deep blue). I'm hoping Cameron's figured a way around that. In that regard, he's taking a big gamble making the lead characters deep blue.

Then again, he's taking a big gamble with this radically "different" kind of movie. It's technically a live-action movie, but the main characters aren't even human. I trust him though. The guy did Terminator, The Abyss, Aliens, Titanic, etc. He knows what he's doing. I'm just not expecting another situation like Star Wars, where people really hadn't seen special effects like it before. No matter how good the vfx in Avatar will be, we have seen it done before. Maybe not on this scale, but we've seen similar work. Only the 3D experience has a chance of blowing people away, and frankly, we won't really know until December 18th. Am I expecting Star Wars, or the equivalent of the best movie ever? No. Is it going to be worth the two-hour drive to Boston to see it in IMAX 3D? Absolutely.

Concerning 3D, does anyone know a way to find the nearest Digital 3D and/or IMAX theater? All I know about is the IMAX theater at the aquarium in Boston, but what about "normal" theaters that have installed the Digital 3D projectors? I haven't had any luck searching for them. Are they "labeled" or "distinguished" in any way?

EDIT: ILM has always impressed me. I really haven't seen any "bad" work from them, whereas Weta is very hit and miss. King Kong and LOTR have some very iffy shots.
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 7:25pm

Post 30 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

jawajohnny wrote:

Concerning 3D, does anyone know a way to find the nearest Digital 3D and/or IMAX theater? All I know about is the IMAX theater at the aquarium in Boston, but what about "normal" theaters that have installed the Digital 3D projectors? I haven't had any luck searching for them. Are they "labeled" or "distinguished" in any way?
Find IMAX 3D Theaters Hit: IMAX Menu > Theaters and Showtimes

Make sure your looking at an IMAX 3D theater and not just an IMAX theater on the map.


Find RealD Theaters

RealD is not IMAX, but is still a very interesting take on 3D technology and is rumored to be how JC likes to watch Avatar himself. I don't know which is best, so any input would be great. For me IMAX 3D is out of the question due to travel length (I would have to get on a friggin plane and can't afford + I want to see Avatar with my family so I have to find a solution where I ca drag them along), so it's RealD for me anyhow, but I'd still like to know. RealD is the only option I can see where it's guaranteed no red/green glasses, only "sunglasses" which should make the color problem in 3D viewing non-existent (the RealD projectors have stronger light bulbs to compensate for the dark glasses).

Last edited Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 8:58pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 7:41pm

Post 31 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Looks pretty awesome. The CG is obviously very intricate. I have a feeling that seeing this on a big screen, in 3D, is going to blow my mind.

I'm not anywhere near as excited as Staff Only, but now that we've actually seen footage, it definitely looks like it will live up to the hype.
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 7:44pm

Post 32 of 865

RodyPolis

Force: 805 | Joined: 28th Apr 2007 | Posts: 1839

CompositeLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I'm guessing Sam Worthington's character becomes an alien? Then he realizes how humans suck so he fights with the aliens against them? I'd go see that smile

So based on what I understand, everything in this movie (even the environment and humans) is CG right? If so, then this is pretty impressive stuff. Is it photo realistic? No, but I guess the final version should look better since people said it was 'like looking through a window'.

I'm not disappointed since I really didn't care for it that much and the trailer just makes me wanna see it now.

Staff Only, I'm sorry but you had it coming man. I think we can all now agree that Avatar will NOT feed the poor, bring world peace, or cure cancer.
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 8:00pm

Post 33 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

RodyPolis wrote:

Staff Only, I'm sorry but you had it coming man. I think we can all now agree that Avatar will NOT feed the poor, bring world peace, or cure cancer.
I had that coming, yes. And I deserved that comment. razz I just wonder what kind of Atomic Rant is in store for me. razz

RodyPolis wrote:

I'm guessing Sam Worthington's character becomes an alien? Then he realizes how humans suck so he fights with the aliens against them?
Yes.


We basically have the outline of the film. I have read everything written about it up until the comic footage, I don't want to read 25 minutes of the film word for word. That is pretty spoiling. Still as I said we pretty much know what's going to happen.

Mild Spoilers, or rather: most of the entire plotline below!! If you want to go in fresh, DON'T READ!






It's the future. Sam Worthington plays Jake Sully. He is an ex-marine who has become paralyzed. He hears about the Avatar project on the planet Pandora. There humans are trying to mine Pandora's natural resources, but find it hard because of the harsh environment and native sentient beings: The Na'vi. The best way to do this for the humans is to take Na'vi DNA mix it with human DNA and grow Na'vi bodies that the humans then project their consciousness into. The Na'vi body then becomes their Avatar and they can safely walk the planet surface. Worthington becomes interested because he is paralyzed and if he can have a Na'vi body he will be able to walk. Some time during his mission he will probably meet and fall in love with Zoe Saldana's character who is an actual alien Na'vi, and then see the barbaric ways the humans have invaded beautiful Pandora and then join the Na'vi in fighting the humans.
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 10:46pm

Post 34 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +2

Well, people surely will have 'called' this reaction, but:

Ouch.

That was hard to watch. Not only is this poorly edited and unenticing, but in a year with excellent teasers and trailers, it's dismally worse. Star Trek, Terminator Salvation, Harry Potter 6, Watchmen- these are movies with trailers for the history books they're so well crafted. Avatar......not even close.

And the content? Well, it gives me-personally at least- a very weirded out, Dungeons & Dragons: The Movie feeling. Kind of embarassingly odd and silly to watch, really. Overly serious and trying to flaunt different things I have absolutely no care about. Sort of like people watching the teaser trailer to Watchmen, having no idea the importance of any of the characters or shots- making it more of a 'fan' teaser. This was the same, except, none of us know anything about the characters or shots.

Not that I was ever really rooting for James Cameron, but I am immensely, insanely disappointed. To me this looks really bad. And, actually, the effects are rather cheap-looking- which soils the 'high point' of it all. And I mean this when I say it, as 'haterrrrrrrzzz!!!!!' as it sounds. In a year of Transformers, Star Trek, Terminator, Harry Potter, Where The Wild Things Are etc. pushing out truly top-shelf and creative CGI stuff, this feels and looks more like Wolverine effects- the sort of 'rushed', lacking-in-contrast or detail 'jelly' look so-so CGI sometimes has.

It rubbed off on me in a very 'this is mo-cap!!!!!!' feel that tried too hard to mix ripoff bits of The Matrix Revolutons with Halo 3 pre-rendered videos, and at the very end with Fern Gully animation.

Really, really just incredibly disappointed, uninteresting plot-wise, and with unenticing visual qualities. The mix of genres and style, instead of meshing together in some sort of futuristic magnum opus; just turns me all sorts of the wrong way.

And what I'm left with are these silly-looking blue aliens trying to posture and look cool in Motioncaptureville, with a complete lack of 'cinematic' feel that even 'okay' game trailers have. That's the biggest issue, it has no flair- it's complete vanilla/plain technically/visually. Which, I guess, is kind of synonomous with Cameron. It's where him and, can't believe I'm saying this, Peter Jackson differ. Jackson has a clear eye for cinematic 'EPIC'-ness with his project. To me it seems Cameron takes on the same projects, but loses the flair. So this is the same as that, just completely lacking in cinematic feel. In fact, that's exactly what this feels like:

A bad game trailer. Wow, I can't believe people are impressed with this. At all. I'll leave it at that, as I'm bound to get all kinds of unnecessary fanboy or 'atom hatorz111!!' reactions from my opinion.

Just..........wow. This is made all-the-worse by how too little too late the teaser is. This movie comes out in 4 months and we're wating around for a teaser. Jesus Christ. Even rushed movies can do better than that. And the font? Why don't just use comic sans. Nit-picky, maybe. But come on- this looks baaaaaad. Like a worse version of Battle for Terra or, christ, a better version of Delgo.

Actually, Delgo looks slightly better.

Execs, Cameron, look to successes like Spiderman 2 or The Matrix Reloaded- which are both movies I can recollect having excellent, well-staggered over about 15 months of publicity teasers and trailers- for how to market. Otherwise, like this, you're just giving the public too long to build huge expectations only to crush them with too little too late.

The slow-burn technique is everything in marketing. Even Watchmen knew this. Embarassing, this is. Cameron should have made Aquaman like he does in Entourage instead. That clip looked better than this.
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 11:17pm

Post 35 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Atom... +1 for you, for speaking your mind, and disappointingly, the truth. I don't such as negative a reaction as you do... but you pretty much just summed up everything I've been thinking about this. I was after all, one of the people who "called" this. I still think (and have stated already here) that it's an amazing concept. But the more I watch it, the execution does seem really terrible. The reason why I didn't post such a negative criticism of the trailer is because I strongly believe many of the shots we saw are early renders. At least I hope. If this is the finished product... well, Lucas did better with his Prequels. I still feel like this could be an awesome movie, because, as I've previously stated, I trust James Cameron. He has put so much time into this that I don't think he could get it this terribly wrong. And he's made Terminator, Aliens, The Abyss, Titanic. But... Cameron and the studio have been really hyping this up, and all we're getting is a mediocre teaser trailer full of iffy CGI? We need to see more footage this late in the game.

This isn't to say I'm bashing Cameron or his movie. It's just been so hyped with the words "photo-realism", "mind-blowing" and the like that this is slightly disappointing. Can a movie look so awesome, and yet so terrible at the same time? That's what Avatar looks like right now.

Although I really, really, want to know how this looked in 3D. I have a feeling it might look awesome in "true" form... and that we're getting a funky-looking "down-converted" version.

EDIT: Uh oh. You know a movie doesn't look "real" when someone looks at the actual humans at the beginning of the trailer, and says... "oh, this is CGI." Which is what just happened with the person sitting next to me. unsure
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 11:29pm

Post 36 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Like I said. Too little, too disappointing, too late. Embarrassing to watch because of it. Because of the hype, because of the cost, because of the time- and because, frankly, this looks too much like creativity run wild in an uncreative person. Just computes poorly to cinematic narrative, you know? I'm surely jumping the gun and I know I'm talking about James Cameron when I say this- but I'd just as well thought a budget-version of Roland Emmerich dreamed up the footage I saw in that teaser. It's unfortunate it happens to also be a James Cameron movie. I almost feel bad for him.

The teaser footage/editing doesn't help, either. It made me go back and watch all of the blockbuster trailers and teasers from movies this year and..........wow. Epic fail. I mean, need I show them?

Watchmen
Terminator Salvation
Star Trek

And, really, I don't have to go any further than that- even though there are plenty more great trailers/teasers this year. Amazing trailers that take all kinds of pisses over this pile of 'meh'.
Posted: Thu, 20th Aug 2009, 11:58pm

Post 37 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

I think it looks great. And I agree with Aculag, when this is on the screen it's supposed to be seen on, it will blow peoples minds. Teaser Shmeaser, I'm just glad to have finally seen footage and get familiar with some of the faces we'll be seeing in a few months.

I for one am a big fan of how the aliens look. I like seeing "out there" stuff. The facial expressions on the guy at 1:12:00 looks so realistic to me. The aliens emote very well imo. I'm excited to see it.

Atom it seems you're not a fan of the "really big names" so to speak. Between all the mess you've been talking about Cameron and Jackson, it seems you have already made up your mind about these films. Sucks4u. You give Sollthar hell for not liking Star Trek yet you completely s*** all over this haha. Wolverine-esque effects???? Slap yourself.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 12:07am

Post 38 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Please.

I've given J.J. Abrams' name all kinds of crap in the past for Cloverfield and his association to it and the ridiculous hype surrounding it. Before and after two movies of his I thought were excellent, too. Two movies I regard in the highest of my taste. (M:I3 and Star Trek)

My point? I'm not trying to be biased one way or another- I can hate or love or be neutral to any filmmaker at any given time, it's my discerning taste on the film that dictates whether I like or dislike them at the moment.

I flip-flopped with Batman Begins, after all, hating it before it came out and loving it afterward- and then had too much confidence in Nolan and was disappointed by The Dark Knight. Even when everyone loved it. I wasn't 'destined' to hate it from the get-go, as many people thought- I was hugely excited. I let my initial viewing of the movie speak for itself- and I plan to do the same for this one, although it hasn't interested me near enough to justify buying (likely a preordered just to see it in theaters) IMAX or digital 3D ticket.

It's a fluid thing, taste, and it's silly to just slub it off as 'oh, well you just don't like so and so'.

No. Such isn't the case.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 12:36am

Post 39 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Atom wrote:

I let my initial viewing of the movie speak for itself- and I plan to do the same for this one, although it hasn't interested me near enough to justify buying (likely a preordered just to see it in theaters) IMAX or digital 3D ticket.
Yeah, but keep in mind this film is made to be viewed on that digital 3D screen. Watching a minute and a half teaser on your computer monitor is not going to do it justice. There is no real way for them to market this movie without watering it down a lot. We can't have 3D trailers on Apple.com, but we can imagine what it might be like.

But, it sounds like you've made up your mind, and the marketing isn't working on you, so you don't have to buy a ticket. Wait and see if the reviews validate your opinion. (With italics for emphasis) (And by the way, I just KNOW the reviewers will be torn on this one. So many will praise it just because it's Cameron, so many will bash it for all the CG). It's actually good that you liked it so little, it'll serve as a nice counterpoint to Staff Only's obsession.

As for the rest of us, let's all get f*cked up and go enjoy the hell out of Avatar on opening night in 3D wink
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 12:40am

Post 40 of 865

RodyPolis

Force: 805 | Joined: 28th Apr 2007 | Posts: 1839

CompositeLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Your expectations must have been over-the-top high to be disappointed by The Dark Knight I think. I had high expectations but the movie topped it all smile So how exactly did you manage to get your expectations that high?
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 12:43am

Post 41 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Aculag wrote:

As for the rest of us, let's all get f*cked up and go enjoy the hell out of Avatar on opening night in 3D wink
Amen. Tron 2 as well.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 12:45am

Post 42 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Aww yeah. Tron 2 will be the Speed Racer of 2010.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 1:18am

Post 43 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Tron 2 inhebriated will be amazing. I wish I had taken part while Speed Racer is still in theaters.

And, I know you're right about Avatar in the 'real' experience, Aculag, I'm just more wary. Like someone said earlier, there's so few people of the overall audience that can see this movie in the correct 3D, digital-projection, IMAX-sized theaters; and even less that do, you know?

It seems almost like a really foolish gamble to me, to rest so much on it. Even moreso because, while I'm a huge believer in IMAX screens and quality, I'm far less enthused by '3D' in theaters. I've seen a few movies in it and, while slightly impressed, don't think it's really at 'that point' just yet.

It's transitional and headachey via a different route, but it's ultimately still transitional and headachy the way the red/blue lensed movies were in the early 90s.

I dunno, I'm excited- but I'm of the belief you can only push '3D' (which is more of a gimmick IMO than the 'way of the future') so far before you have to start actually literally projecting a hologram-like 3D image.

As far as I can tell, Cameron's still going about it presenting it the old school 'red/blue projection' and realD glasses way- so I dunno just yet, you know? It's hard to buy into, loving the movie or hating it.

Last edited Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 1:24am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 1:20am

Post 44 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Atom wrote:

I wish I had taken part while Speed Racer is still in theaters.
It's just as good on an HDTV with surround. Just have to sit a bit closer to the screen.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 1:26am

Post 45 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Moving back to Austin tomorrow.

42" plasma + BluRay player + new apartment + Speed Racer = perfect reintroduction to the 'college' lifestyle after a juvenile summer = WIN.

Last edited Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 1:36am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 1:33am

Post 46 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

That's a pretty good (re)introduction to ANY lifestyle!
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 2:31am

Post 47 of 865

RodyPolis

Force: 805 | Joined: 28th Apr 2007 | Posts: 1839

CompositeLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

So who's going to the free screening tomorrow?
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 2:39am

Post 48 of 865

Rockfilmers

Force: 2182 | Joined: 10th May 2007 | Posts: 1376

VisionLab User PhotoKey 4 User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

It seems almost like a really foolish gamble to me, to rest so much on it. Even moreso because, while I'm a huge believer in IMAX screens and quality, I'm far less enthused by '3D' in theaters. I've seen a few movies in it and, while slightly impressed, don't think it's really at 'that point' just yet.
I'm not so sure I agree with you on this. 3D is mostly used as a gimmick (Spy Kids 3D, My Bloody Valentine 3D), but it looks like it is coming to a point where 3D is just a new part of cinema. I love 3D films. The 3D theater in my town uses Dolby Digital 3D and costs about $1.50. To me, that is well worth it. It is entertaining and adds something when done right. I can't wait to see this in 3D.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 5:20am

Post 49 of 865

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Atom you're getting too predictable. You should at least shake things up every once and a while. A tip - don't make up your mind on things before you see anything about them.

I wasn't as crushingly disappointed as you were - but the trailer didn't live up to expectations the first watch through. I've since watched it a few more times and it's definitely grown on me. A lot. I LOVED the slow build of the music as each revelation was unveiled - like right after "This is great..." While a lot of the CG does look kinda cheap - I can't help but wonder why they seemed to showcase the worst shots.

The aliens look basically photo real in a few shots throughout the trailer. Mostly closeups, ironically enough.

At 1:30.

1:33
1:35 ESPECIALLY - this shot and most shots of the female character (I believe she played Uhura in Star Trek?) are absolutely phenomenal.
1:49

It's just a shame that these INSANELY good shots are so overshadowed by what is admittedly fairly poor CG.

Still, I'll be there opening night - in 3D. I refuse to see this movie in 2D. I honestly believe a lot of this stuff is designed specifically for that format, and the transition to 2D hasn't helped it much.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 5:26am

Post 50 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Evman wrote:

It's just a shame that these INSANELY good shots are so overshadowed by what is admittedly fairly poor CG.
I bet they'll have it looking nice and polished by December. Maybe not, though!
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 6:17am

Post 51 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

It's no Transformers or King Kong from a CGI perspective, and no 300 or Star Wars from a visual world perspective.

And, because I can immediately recall 4 movies that 'beat it' in my opinion in their respective fields; it's embarrassing to look back, even days ago, at the 'world-shattering' visual style and CGI it was touted as having. And, Evman, while I hope you're right:

If they're gonna have an almost entirely mo-cap/CG movie, and they're going to spend lengthy, multiple years on it, and it's coming out in a mere 4 months- why wouldn't the CG be much more polished than it already is at this point? They've spent years and years on this stuff and waited until basically the last minute they could wait to release a teaser before the film's release- will they really have time/money to clean up some of those 'ouch' shots so drastically? And why would they use such poor shots when they've got, at this point, almost literally nothing to lose so close, marketing-wise, to the release; you know?

You ask some valid questions, man, maybe you can answer mine.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 6:48am

Post 52 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

For all we know those 'ouch' shots are old renders that were complete enough to put in the trailer while the final renders are still cooking.

You can't seriously expect this film to be completely finished already. I would guess that the amount of final rendering they have to do is still in the 'weeks or months' category. The reason we've only just now seen footage is probably because this stuff is taking a long-ass time to finish.

Atom wrote:

And why would they use such poor shots when they've got, at this point, almost literally nothing to lose so close, marketing-wise, to the release;
This sounds like you answered your own question.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 6:55am

Post 53 of 865

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I don't have a huge opinion of the teaser. It's nothing great, a bit weird and nerdy (sorry) and the 'this is great!' bit just seems shoehorned into the editing. Some lackluster shots, lackluster buildup and lackluster editing.

I think it was down to just showing the wrong things at the wrong time, making it ineffective as the only current representation of what we've seen from the movie. I'm sure the movie (or more hype-inducing, 'give-me-a-bit-of-story-to-care-about-by-using-pained-yelling-and-dialogue-from-epic-scenes-a-la-terminator-salvation' full blown trailer) will be more impressive, BUT............this isn't even impressive to me. Like, at all.

I had low expectations for 300 when I had heard about it, and was blown away by the teaser and trailer. Everything looked like a painting, my mind was officially blown. Likewise, Tarsem's 'The Fall' took me completely aback by its breathtaking cinematography and, more importantly, ethereal use of locations. That, too, was a movie recommended by a pretentious friend who I sort of shrugged off as being a film too 'indie' for my liking. It ended up being one of the most visually incredible things I've ever seen. But the trailer is what did it for me.

To be honest, this teaser feels like a lost opportunity. But you know what? The Speed Racer announcement teaser didn't sit right with me either, seemed too - you got it - 'weird and nerdy' as well; and it ended up just fine with the style attempted.

I guess it comes down to shot selection: not only is what's happening uninteresting and lacking in emotional attachment, but the way it's shown (location, lighting, cinematography) is just kind of........vanilla, nothing special. Such is James Cameron's filmmaking style, though, I suppose.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 7:23am

Post 54 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

For anybody that is interested, I covered the Avatar trailer in my latest podcast, which you can find here:

http://spiffingreview.com/2009/08/20/episode-3-moon/

(we also review Moon)

Each time I watch the Avatar teaser I seem to like it more and more. I don't really get the "poor CGI" that some people are talking about - while it's clearly, certainly CGI, it's be no means 'poor'.

The character work on the aliens looks genuinely fantastic - not necessarily in terms of photo-realistic rendering (Optimus and Davy Jones style) but in terms of actual subtle facial expression.

This has always been the core separation between ILM and WETA for me in this decade - ILM can achieve astonishing levels of photorealism in areas where it must be incredibly difficult to do so (Pirates sequels), but I don't feel like they've ever really got the hang of character animation. Their character work always feels a bit too cartoony - hence the Star Wars prequels feeling so cartoony. It's not because of the tech, which is great, but because of the artistry, which is more suited to a Disney film or Will Farrell comedy than a live action film.

WETA, on the other hand, have a wildly varying quality of photorealism, even within single films (King Kong's dinosaur stampede compared to Kong himself, for example), but their character animation, whether it's Gollum (especially once they reached Return of the King) or Kong, is outstanding.

If only they could somehow combine their talents. wink

As Ben3308 says, though, I don't think this teaser really has enough in it to form a proper opinion on the film. Discarding the discussions about the CGI, there's not really enough meat in here - ie, story, character, ideas - to judge one way or another.

The only change I have from before the teaser is that the film is a lot more fantasy-based than I expected.

I'm still intrigued. Still don't really know what to expect.

This is also interesting: http://blog.spout.com/2009/08/20/10-movies-avatar-unfortunately-resembles/ I don't agree with its negative tone, but the comparisons are fairly spot-on.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 3:07pm

Post 55 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Atom wrote:

Not only is this poorly edited and unenticing, but in a year with excellent teasers and trailers, it's dismally worse. Star Trek, Terminator Salvation, Harry Potter 6, Watchmen- these are movies with trailers for the history books they're so well crafted. Avatar......not even close. The slow-burn technique is everything in marketing. Even Watchmen knew this. Embarassing, this is.
With this, I agree. The trailer missed an opportunity to really be awesome, and it did it in a way that is so far from the mark that a part of me thinks it was intentional. They wanted to bring the hype (from especially people like me) down to Earth so we would go into the movie realistically and so that the majority of people seeing it in 2D will know more what to expect. That is my wishful thinking. My other half thinks that the marketing dept. just plain failed and that no-one there could see that the trailer wasn't engaging at all. For example: when I saw this I knew at 0.47 seconds that I had to see this film. That is what is called a "wow moment", and for a film like Avatar which is supposed to 80% (at least) about the "wow", a teaser that has no wow in it is just silly. A post I read on IMDb summed up the problems with the trailer very well:

Random IMDb guy wrote:

The real problem with the trailer is simpleand it has nothing to do with CGI.

It fails for two reasons:

1) It simply has no WOW moment. It looks like a fan trailer cobbled together from bits of Atack of the Clones and Lord of the Rings. There is nothing intreguing of enticing in that brief glimpse we gat see of Avatar, merely some stuff we've seen plenty of times before.

2) The trailer is dull. It hits every emotional beat you'd expect a cheesy soulless blockbuster to hit, and it does it like clockwork, from the reveal on the planet, to that awe moment, followed by a relationship bit and a scene that's clearly Sams 'revelation moment' where he Believes! (surrounding by pixie dust) and realises the error of his ways and what an amazing and diverse ecosystem this planet is, to the big battle to save the world!... blah
I can practically hear trailer voice man boomiing "In a world....of wonder..and danger! A man will face the truth.... and battle for love... *heave*


Here's a trailer pitch from me (forgive any crappy dialouge, I wrote this in 2 minutes to illustrate a point):

*Black screen*

Man: "You have been chosen for the Avatar project. You will go down to Pandora's surface. The surface air there is not breathable to humans so you will be using your host body while down there. While it may look like the most beautiful thing you have ever seen, never take you guard down! Am I making myself clear?"

*BAM - A closeup of Worthington's Na'vi Avatar looking pristine in CGI fills the screen*

Worthington's Avatar: "Yes". *Smiles slyly*

*Then BAM, the best motherf***ing shot they could find of Pandora. After showing this for 10 seconds, they cut to a very quick editing (1-2 seconds per shot) compilation of the most impressive shots they have completed while the music builds until all sound cuts out and the word: "Avatar" fills the screen*
If I could think of that, why couldn't the combined forces of Fox's super-massive marketing department? So you have a good point, Atom.


However I have not given up on Avatar at all. It may still pull through especially if today's IMAX previews go well. I think the film might still be excellent and the only thing the trailer has proved it that the effects might not be all JC has said they will be. Also I find this to be true:

Tarn wrote:


Each time I watch the Avatar teaser I seem to like it more and more. I don't really get the "poor CGI" that some people are talking about - while it's clearly, certainly CGI, it's be no means 'poor'. The character work on the aliens looks genuinely fantastic - not necessarily in terms of photo-realistic rendering (Optimus and Davy Jones style) but in terms of actual subtle facial expression.
The trailer, which initially disappointed me, has grown a lot on me after seeing it 10 more times today (and my brain has started to be accustomed to Pandora's freaky design) I can see a lot of effort went into some of the CGI. Still I can't comprehend the oddly mediocre metal rendering. I guess it has humbled me somewhat though. I have an "it can go either way" attitude now. I just really hope it doesn't do a Speed racer/Watchmen with the movie-going public. I hope it does a The Matrix. My final judgment of my expectations will come when we have the real trailer, and I pray that it will be half the trailer Star Trek had. As Tarn said in his podcast (paraphrase): "This trailer was to nerdy for the movies own good."

Last edited Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 3:46pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 3:31pm

Post 56 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Staff Only wrote:

As Tarn said in his podcast (paraphrase): "This trailer was to nerdy for the movies own good."
Not to reply to your paraphrase of my own quote, but...

This trailer falls in an awkward place.

On the one hand, general audiences are likely to be completely confuddled by the high fantasy being shown. They can handle Lord of the Rings just about and they can handle Generic Badass Marine sci-fi, but the high fantasy stuff on display here just isn't familiar to most movie and TV audiences. It's the kind of stuff that book readers and game players are much more comfortable with.

Then you've got The CG Brigade - ie, the people that are completely obsessed with anything CG, for no particularly discernible reason, and who shout and scream and bellow if anything is even slightly recognisable as a computer visual effect. These are presumably the kind of people that would have reacted similarly when the original King Kong came out, or any of Harryhousen's work, moaning about how "it's so obviously model work". It's akin to watching some actors performing and criticising them because they're not REALLY those characters, they're only pretending. It's kinda missing the point, if you ask me. It's becoming so focused on the technical exercise that you're ignoring what the end result actually is.

So mainstream audiences are likely to be befuddled, a large portion of film enthusiasts are going to bring their CG allergies, fans of James Cameron sci-fi are going to be put off by the lack of testosterone, leaving a small niche of people that love imaginative fiction of all kinds and are intrigued at seeing something that is such a total embracing of 'another world'. And even those people still don't have enough here to really get their teeth into.

I can't help but feel that if this had come out 6-12 months ago with little hype, most people would have been utterly amazed by it, or at least satisfyingly intrigued.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 3:41pm

Post 57 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Yeah, the main reason why this trailer is disappointing is that we were told that we would see a new level of photo-realism. But... we didn't. That's why I have mixed feelings about it. It looks really cool, but not all of it looks "real". Some shots of the environments and the aliens looked extremely photo-realistic, but others (especially the metal) don't look good at all. I'm wondering if they would look more real in 3D, if you're completely immersed in this world? That's the reason why I won't be seeing the movie in 2D. We're not supposed to "see" the movie, we're supposed to "experience" it.

The thing that's been holding back "virtual reality" is that we can only do one out of two things at a time: We can immerse someone in an environment with terrible graphics, or we can sit back and watch something on a screen with really great graphics. We haven't been able to combine immersion and realism into one package. If what we've been told about Cameron's 3D is true (that we'll be in it rather than having occasional things popping out at you), then Avatar might still be the "revolutionary" viewing experience Cameron's making it out to be. We just have to see it in the correct format. Hope that made sense. smile

Regardless of how the CGI looks, the trailer itself is sub-par, especially so in a year of great trailers. As Atom said, compared to Watchmen, Star Trek, Terminator Salvation, and HP6, Avatar doesn't hold up at all.

To further Tarn's point about the audience... There's nothing in the trailer that would make me want to go see this, except the words, "From the director of Titanic". And even when the "mainstream" audience sees that, they'll still be left wondering what the heck this movie is all about. Thus leaving them with no immediate interest in it.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 4:03pm

Post 58 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Tarn wrote:

Staff Only wrote:

As Tarn said in his podcast (paraphrase): "This trailer was to nerdy for the movies own good."
Not to reply to your paraphrase of my own quote, but...
So sorry, I thought I was quoting your podcast, and then I realized I was quoting Ben, so I tired to edit it out, but you got me before I could remove it so I edited it back again and I hope we can pretend you actually said something like that. razz

Anyway I agree with the rest of your post, and I think that if the theatrical trailer, critics and word of mouth isn't really positive Avatar might sink. I know Titanic was predicted to sink (the film, unlike the ship) because of the massive budget, but what did save it other than DiCaprio? Were the critics good? I'm just saying this to Cameron: I hope for your sake that Avatar is a good film.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 4:04pm

Post 59 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Staff Only wrote:

Tarn wrote:

Staff Only wrote:

As Tarn said in his podcast (paraphrase): "This trailer was to nerdy for the movies own good."
Not to reply to your paraphrase of my own quote, but...
So sorry, I thought I was quoting your podcast, and then I realized I was quoting Ben, so I tired to edit it out, but you got me before I could remove it so I edited it back again and I hope we can pretend you actually said something like that. razz
It's OK, I'm perfectly happy to take credit for such a good quote.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 5:08pm

Post 60 of 865

No Respite Productions

Force: 985 | Joined: 4th Dec 2006 | Posts: 482

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

A few thoughts.

We do seem to be forgetting (to a reasonable degree) that this is only a teaser, a minute and a half. We've heard all of three words uttered from the film, and whilst the trailer gives out the main scope of the story, it's nothing that hasn't been available from the wiki page for the last 6 months or so.

So perhaps we should start treating this as what it is, a first glimpse into the movie, and try not to read too much into it or over analyse.

This is not the last you'll hear of Avatar before the release so we probably shouldn't assume that the marketing department has dropped the ball either. There's still four months to go and as it happens that's plenty of time to generate more interest.

I can see that this film is probably going to seriously divide opinions though when it finally comes out. I'm hoping there is a strong enough story behind all of this as that is probably the only thing that'll help win over the non-fantasy crowd. As someone who doesn't dig such a genre, I'm going to have to really keep an open mind when it comes to watching this. I could end up seriously hating it if it goes too far into the realms of fantasy lore.

As for the comparisons with Terminator Salvation and Watchmen trailer (and IMO Where the Wild Thing Are)... yeah compared to those two/three this trailer is weak, but then again so is virtually every other trailer that's been released before or since. So it's not really a fair comparison.

It stands on it's own two feet thanks to an incredible choice in score, it's given us a teaser of things to come... job done.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 6:07pm

Post 61 of 865

Thrawn

Force: 1995 | Joined: 11th Aug 2006 | Posts: 1962

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

No Respite Productions wrote:

A few thoughts.

We do seem to be forgetting (to a reasonable degree) that this is only a teaser, a minute and a half. We've heard all of three words uttered from the film, and whilst the trailer gives out the main scope of the story, it's nothing that hasn't been available from the wiki page for the last 6 months or so.

So perhaps we should start treating this as what it is, a first glimpse into the movie, and try not to read too much into it or over analyse.

This is not the last you'll hear of Avatar before the release so we probably shouldn't assume that the marketing department has dropped the ball either. There's still four months to go and as it happens that's plenty of time to generate more interest.
Ah, yes, but a teaser is designed to give the audience a taste of what their in for. It should both confirm what we've heard about the film, and give us an interest in seeing the film. When the trailer for Star Wars Episode III came out, it accomplished both of those goals. It both confirmed that the circle (if you will) of the series is complete, and it I could not stop thinking about the film until the midnight showing which I attended.

Avatar, however, did not accomplish either of these goals. At least, it didn't for me. It did not confirm that it was this "new level of photo-realism", because as pointed out by many members in this thread, the anjavascript:buttonClick(0);imation was rather weak, regardless of whether it's complete or not. Second of all, the trailer, animation or not, was just unsatisfactory.

I've watched it quite a few times, and I can't help but being disappointed each time. There just so many things I'm disappointed in, which have pretty much been covered. I'll probably end up seeing it in 3D, but at this point, it's hardly worth a midnight showing. I guess time will tell.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 8:18pm

Post 62 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Haha what's funny is that some people are like "Eh, this teaser sucked and was disappointing... Yeah I'll see it but I won't be doing midnight showing."

Haha either way, Cameron still wins. He doesn't care what time you see it wink
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 10:06pm

Post 63 of 865

Thrawn

Force: 1995 | Joined: 11th Aug 2006 | Posts: 1962

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

CX3 wrote:

Haha what's funny is that some people are like "Eh, this teaser sucked and was disappointing... Yeah I'll see it but I won't be doing midnight showing."

Haha either way, Cameron still wins. He doesn't care what time you see it wink
It's hardly about winning or losing. The trailer sucked. End of story. He did a poor job, and I was disappointed. I'm not going to freakin' boycott the film because of it's lame trailer, and even if I did it wouldn't evem make a difference in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not saying "Ahahaha! I hated the trailer, and I'm not going to see the midnight showing so I WIN AND YOU LOSE!!!!" because like I said, it's not really about me winning anything by refusing to see Avatar ASAP. At the same time, it was his trailer that prevented me from doing so. If it's all about making money for him (which I hope it isn't) then sure, maybe he "won". But if it's about entertaining people (me included) I'd say he lost. In my eyes at least.

Good luck trying to realize what I just said wink
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 10:12pm

Post 64 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Kinda... ha

I'm sure he's more so wanting to entertain with the Feature. Not so much with a teaser. Either way with all the hype, he still knows people will still see his creation. Shitty teaser or not.

I dunno, I just find it funny and incredibly ballsy. He's basically saying "Meh, I don't care if you don't like the teaser... I know you'll go see it anyways." And people will haha.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong. I thought as a teaser, the edit was pretty garbage but I'll still be seeing it. I just more so used this "teaser" as a chance to actually see the footage.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 11:23pm

Post 65 of 865

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

You guys are funny. It's a teaser trailer for a movie...
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 11:35pm

Post 66 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Thanks for the clarification ha. Understand this though, I don't want to see the movie based off of the teaser. I more so want to see the movie because of all the hype and the new 3d technology that he's used on it. That and I'm a nerd to I love nerdy fantasy/action.

I could have went to the 15 min preview tonight if it wasn't for my job. I really just want to see this movie the way it's supposed to be seen. Can't wait to hear the reactions of those who get to see it tonight.
Posted: Fri, 21st Aug 2009, 11:56pm

Post 67 of 865

RodyPolis

Force: 805 | Joined: 28th Apr 2007 | Posts: 1839

CompositeLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

CX3 wrote:

Either way with all the hype, he still knows people will still see his creation.
Yea, but this so called hype only works on us guys here(and other people on film forums) and I don't think we alone will pay for the budget. What I'm saying is that the average person really don't care about James Cameron or how long he spent working on this movie. People aren't gonna start wanting to see it until they're shown really cool stuff.

So if Cameron were to 'win', this hype he has around right now isn't enough to get people to blindly pay for the movie cause not many people are into movies that much. I honestly never knew/have heard of James Cameron until Terminator Salvation was about to come out earlier this year. And I would never have known about Avatar if it wasn't for the Movie Buzz guy.

This movie will make money based on how people like the trailers. I for one liked the teaser. It told me what the movie was about, it had some cool looking action and nice looking shots. It showed the 'fans' what it'll look like, and it showed the average joes some humans being eaten by dragon looking things(instant awesome). I might not go see this opening weekend, but I will go see it. 3d or not I think this looks cool.
Posted: Sat, 22nd Aug 2009, 12:17am

Post 68 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Mehhhh just wait for the trailer. It's surprising how many people actually don't even see teasers anyways. I showed a lot of people the Star Trek teaser a month or so after it came out and many were like "That was cool! Never seen that before."

They had seen the trailer surprisingly though.
Posted: Sat, 22nd Aug 2009, 12:39pm

Post 69 of 865

gregcotten

Force: 0 | Joined: 19th Jun 2006 | Posts: 7

Member

Atom wrote:

Like I said. Too little, too disappointing, too late. Embarrassing to watch because of it. Because of the hype, because of the cost, because of the time- and because, frankly, this looks too much like creativity run wild in an uncreative person. Just computes poorly to cinematic narrative, you know? I'm surely jumping the gun and I know I'm talking about James Cameron when I say this- but I'd just as well thought a budget-version of Roland Emmerich dreamed up the footage I saw in that teaser. It's unfortunate it happens to also be a James Cameron movie. I almost feel bad for him.

The teaser footage/editing doesn't help, either. It made me go back and watch all of the blockbuster trailers and teasers from movies this year and..........wow. Epic fail. I mean, need I show them?

Watchmen
Terminator Salvation
Star Trek

And, really, I don't have to go any further than that- even though there are plenty more great trailers/teasers this year. Amazing trailers that take all kinds of pisses over this pile of 'meh'.
And........ He'll be crying all the way to the bank.

Greg
Posted: Sat, 22nd Aug 2009, 6:27pm

Post 70 of 865

The Strider

Force: 493 | Joined: 27th Jan 2008 | Posts: 230

EffectsLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Well, problems with editing aside, the trailer does indeed look amazing on the silver screen. I saw it play before 'Inglourious Basterds' last night. Not as impressive as it could have been, but it definitely looks good.
Posted: Sun, 23rd Aug 2009, 4:21pm

Post 71 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Roger Ebert's reaction to the 15 minute preview...

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090821/OPINION/908219995
Posted: Sun, 23rd Aug 2009, 7:10pm

Post 72 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Here's a page from the LA Times where you can watch many peoples reactions to the preview they just saw.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2009/08/avatar-fans-run-through-the-jungle.html
Posted: Sun, 23rd Aug 2009, 7:56pm

Post 73 of 865

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I find it very amusing people actually go to a theatre just to watch a preview of a film... And now they go home to watch REACTIONS from people who have watched a preview of a film...

Hehe. Fandom has always puzzled me. The human race is great. smile
Posted: Sun, 23rd Aug 2009, 8:05pm

Post 74 of 865

Axeman

Force: 17995 | Joined: 20th Jan 2002 | Posts: 6124

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

SuperUser

Rating: +1

Sollthar - you should make a video of your reaction to watching the fan's reactions to the preview footage, so we can watch it.
Posted: Sun, 23rd Aug 2009, 8:56pm

Post 75 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

I don't think it has to do with fandom. People just wanted to see the new tech/graphics that Cameron has been talking about. And I wanted to hear if it actually did live up to the realism.

Besides, tickets were free. People do much more boring/dumb stuff with their lives and pay money for it.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Sep 2009, 6:00pm

Post 76 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Some Avatar pics were posted in a French magazine.

Here's the best scan of the cover:



Fans are getting really exited again. Even the ones put off by the trailer. I must say that this picture looks pretty great. Netyri looks like she is alive. I look at the picture and it looks like there is a person behind the eyes. That is no small feat when it comes to CGI. So judging by the picture they did indeed make creatures in league with Davy Jones, King Kong and Gollum (which seemed almost inevitable since they are the same people who made Gollum and King Kong and have more time and money this time around) even though these are from a design point of view much tougher to sell as photoreal.

Oh and the question surrounding "the third limb" hanging down from her...*ahem*...crotch area that some have been asking; that is simply because the image has been taken out of context and it is in fact some sort of cloth that covers her up. Her right arm is behind her shoulder holding a knife.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Sep 2009, 6:10pm

Post 77 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

James, it's alright, we know it's you. Now stop this embarassing charade and lose the name Staff Only. Come on, Cameron.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Sep 2009, 6:23pm

Post 78 of 865

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

This is great.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Sep 2009, 6:29pm

Post 79 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Atom wrote:

James, it's alright, we know it's you. Now stop this embarassing charade and lose the name Staff Only. Come on, Cameron.
Okey, you got me. You were always smarter than the rest I give you that, and I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for you meddling kids!

*Dramatically rips of prosthetic mask Mission Impossible style*

Henceforth I shall be know as THE KING OF THE WORLD WOOOOOO HO HO HO! Mwahahahahahahaha.

razz

Last edited Thu, 3rd Sep 2009, 9:44am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 2nd Sep 2009, 9:01pm

Post 80 of 865

RodyPolis

Force: 805 | Joined: 28th Apr 2007 | Posts: 1839

CompositeLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +2

Has anyone read this article by James Cameron? It makes me wanna see the movie even more!


James Cameron wrote:

Quite some time ago I made the greatest movie ever made ever. It was called The Titanic and it made you, your mother, your girlfriend, and even tough nuts like your dad and boyfriend bawl like a bunch of brand new orphans.

Most people blame the The Titanic's success on the fact that it featured Leonardo Di Caprio before he got fat and Kate Winslet before she had her name legally changed to Skinemax. But in reality, The Titanic was only awesome because I directed it. You don't know that but Hollywood suits do, and that's all that really matters to me because they are the trees from which dough grows.

As a reward for making the most successful film since Star Wars, the Hollywood suits gave me Carte Blanch, which, for those of you morons who don't read German, translates as, "Write your own ticket, Sam Strange!"

Many filmmakers get opportunities like this and immediately blow it on indulgent, boring, personal pieces of crap. But that's just not how I roll. My answer to all that freedom is to make a movie that will replace The Titanic as the most expensive, most successful, most spectacular, most technologically advanced film of all time. It may have cost a billion dollars and thirteen years of my life, but with Avatar, I believe I've achieved that goal.

Or maybe not. Apparently the people who paid for the film are nervous now that they've seen footage. To test their fears, they offered people fifteen minutes for free, and no one showed up. So now they're all pissed at me before the film's even had a chance to fail. As a last ditch effort to drum up interest, they've asked me to come here, CHUD.com, to give away the entire movie.

So here's the deal, this is the story of why Avatar is the greatest film you will ever see, this is why Avatar is going to be "a game changer". If any of your friends tell you they think the movie looks like a goofball cartoon send them here and kick them in the A-hole on their way out.

I had an unlimited budget for Avatar. I wanted to do something very special with it, so I hooked up with NASA for some ideas. As it turned out, NASA secretly knew of a planet filled with blue cat people, but no one was willing to go because the trip takes six years both ways. I asked NASA if I looked like a pussy, NASA said no, and we were on our way.

A lot happened during those first six years. Crew members died, new crew members were born. Back on Earth, new movies came out all the time, each advancing CG technology further than the last. Sadly, I could not watch these films because I was stuck on a *beep* space ship, which offered only a half eaten VHS copy of Dances with Wolves for entertainment. I totally have that movie memorized now, even the Indian language stuff. Tatanka!

It was a rough trip. By the time we got there my star, Channing Tatum, had suffered a major back injury and my 2nd billing, Sigourney Weaver, had aged twice as much as Michael Jackson predicted she would. This basically necessitated that my actors only appear in a small part of the film. My plot about two class-opposed lovers who voyage on an "unsinkable" Alien ship which Alien sinks after hitting an Alien iceberg had to go.

This huge problem resolved itself once we got to the planet. Everything about it was beautiful and exotic. Chunks of land floated in midair, plant life looked like a rainforest under black-light, huge unbelievable monsters roamed around for fresh meat. But most beautiful of all were the human-like Na'vy, with whom we found guides, protectors, and, after installing shock-collars, fairly decent actors.

The plot would now be about a wheelchair human who makes a Nav'y body to jump around in. He'd fall in love with an actual N'avy and end up protecting her race from stupid white humans led by Sigourney Weaver who also takes on a Na'v'y body, but not a N'av'y heart.

The film was easy to shoot. No CG was necessary because everything on the planet already looked fake as *beep* People want to call Avatar photo-realistic and I guess that's true in the sense that Cocoon is photo-realistic. It's twenty-four real photos per second of stuff that shouldn't exist. There's a big difference, and it will totally change the game. Someday we'll find a planet where the aliens look less fake and all movies will be made there and people will look to me as a pioneer.

Those of us who survived the planet were pretty jazzed to come back home again and show off our beautiful footage. Six years later, we entered a planet more foreign than the one we'd just returned from. There was now this thing called the Internet and Lord of the Rings and some *beep* had made a 3rd Terminator film! My good friend Arnold had become President of California! People could talk on phones while walking around wherever they wanted! Tight-rolling your jeans was no longer cool! Celine Dion had turned into Wayne Newton!

So maybe I've lost touch with modern people. Maybe Avatar a little less great than the awesome it's supposed to be. Look, I humbly apologize if that's the case. Yet I still must ask for your ticket. Actually, I need you to buy three or four. If this film isn't profitable, they're going to murder me. Our trip cost Earth 30,000,000 barrels of high octane gasoline, and some want to blame us for the current economic crisis. Also, it is quite possible that an army of Navy' are coming here right now to blow us up in retribution. I know how to fight them, but I won't tell until you've all made this film the most profitable film of all time. Oh, stop whining. You never know, you might actually find it entertaining.
Posted: Sat, 3rd Oct 2009, 1:49am

Post 81 of 865

Thrawn

Force: 1995 | Joined: 11th Aug 2006 | Posts: 1962

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

New photos for those who are interested..
Posted: Sat, 3rd Oct 2009, 5:10am

Post 82 of 865

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Is it just me, or do those look really really fake and CG? Hopefully it'll be better in motion, but juding from those shots I'd say Davy Jones was leagues ahead of this.
Posted: Sat, 3rd Oct 2009, 5:41am

Post 83 of 865

Thrawn

Force: 1995 | Joined: 11th Aug 2006 | Posts: 1962

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Did you click on the high resolution photos? When they're blown up, they look a lot more realistic. However, doesn't quite match the realism of Davy Jones. Do you think Cameron made a mistake by going with Weta instead of ILM, or do you think the characters are harder to render realistically due to their colors?
Posted: Sat, 3rd Oct 2009, 8:53am

Post 84 of 865

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

They just look badly design-wise I think personally. No render is going to change that blue people with long necks and big eyes look bad to me. unsure
Posted: Sat, 3rd Oct 2009, 9:29am

Post 85 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Pooky wrote:

Is it just me, or do those look really really fake and CG? Hopefully it'll be better in motion, but juding from those shots I'd say Davy Jones was leagues ahead of this.
Unfortunately, yes. (Hence why I didn't post these pics here after Atom's response last time razz) I hope the picture of Neytiri on the rock, with the foliage and all, is not finished. It might work in motion, but why would they release a picture in such resolution when it has such obvious flaws? The foliage, which has looked fantastic in all the other shots, is in this pretty weak. The leaves do look CGI at first sight when you see it in high-res (completely neat and smooth borders, no holes, not one small irregularity), the compositing is pretty bad between the different parts of the foreground (mainly shadows issues, like some render pass is missing [ambiant occlusion maybe?]), the roots running over the rock look painfully average too, and the DOF looks kind of unreal (like a mix of real bokeh and gaussian blur). However, the aliasing on the very left leaves and branches do make me think there's something wrong with this image. Some part even looks like there's alpha maps where there shouldn't be.

On the other hand, the shot with The Starship Troopers vs. Flying Banshees looks really good, so once again I'm holding out for: "Unfinished". The real reason I'm worried is because of this. This was the moment I really started to hold back my insane fandom of Avatar. I really liked Cameron for his perfectionism or "rightism" as he called it. I thought he wanted stuff to be perfect for the sake of it like I do. Now it seems like he has been telling his VFX Supervisors (who are loads better at VFX than he is of course) "Who cares if the shot sucks, it looks real to me! That's what matters". Well I would rather have a shot that's mathematically perfect that looks slightly fake (although I don't how it could look fake), than a shot that's mathematically wrong that "looks" real. If I could contact Cameron I would tell him; "Do you want Avatar to "look" real, or be real? Let the VFX guys do their jobs without butting in, unless you're gonna do like Michael Bay and keep saying: 'Make it realer.'" I don't know where Cameron got the idea that he is the best person to judge if a shot looks finished in his production? The shots certainly have to pass his judgment being the director an all, but I would think that the VFX supervisor who worked on The Two Towers, Return of the King and King Kong has a few things to say himself. Also has James Cameron thought about how many VFX enthusiast, and or VFX people are looking forward to Avatar and will be watching it with a highly critical eye? If the VFX guys tell you it's fake: LISTEN!

And no, I have not turned into a skeptic. I'm still really looking forward to Avatar, but if I see any clipping on December 18...


Thrawn wrote:

Do you think Cameron made a mistake by going with Weta instead of ILM, or do you think the characters are harder to render realistically due to their colors?
Of course he made a mistake. If you are going to revolutionize VFX there is only one place to go. I used to think that Weta Digital could actually handle this, and that the tragedy was that for the first time in history a leap in VFX is not spearheaded by ILM. Now it looks like Weta might be proving all us ILM fanboys right. However I hope to be proved wrong. I'm rooting for Avatar.

And yes about the colors. Remember Hulk 2003? That Hulk was made by arguably the world best VFX supervisor (my favorite being John Knoll) and his team at ILM. It didn't matter. The moment the light green monster entered the screen, people couldn't believe something of that color was part of the environment. Also Avatar makes it even harder by having fictional surroundings. Nothing on the screen will be visually familiar, and therefore it will be a monumental task to get us to believe it. That's why I once again urge James Cameron to come to his senses and make sure everything on screen is right at the very least before worrying about if it "looks real" to him. Oh well.

Sollthar wrote:

They just look badly design-wise I think personally. No render is going to change that blue people with long necks and big eyes look bad to me. unsure
This is a real concern. I wonder if James Cameron chose that design just to make it harder for himself. The only thing we can hope for is that after the first 10 minutes you will just get used to them and accept it. I remember that there was some real concern that the Prawns in D9 were to conventional to be interesting, and that turned out to be wrong.
Posted: Sat, 3rd Oct 2009, 1:29pm

Post 86 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Maybe it looks better in IMAX. Since that is Cameron's intended medium for Avatar, maybe they do look really great in 3D, and we're only seeing the awkward "down-converted" version?

That's my only explanation, besides that Cameron has over-hyped it.
Posted: Mon, 19th Oct 2009, 4:28pm

Post 87 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Rating: +1

Mr Brinkmann just posted an interesting Cameron article which we picked up on the FXhome twitter (seriously, if you're not on twitter and following us, why not!?).

Check it out:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/26/091026fa_fact_goodyear?currentPage=all

NOTE: The article does start with some loud language. But, hey, this is James Cameron we're talking about here! But I thought I'd better mention it. It's the only way to be sure.
Posted: Mon, 19th Oct 2009, 7:21pm

Post 88 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

*vomits
Posted: Mon, 19th Oct 2009, 8:03pm

Post 89 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

I had a feeling that the article would piss Atom majorly off (if the negatives start rolling in, I want in on record that I have not, and will not neg you here, Atom wink). It should come as no surprise that I love Cameron even more after that. After he implied that he didn't care about CGI clipping in Avatar I got worried that he wasn't the guy I idolized, but this was beyond great. It made my month, so thanks a bunch, Tarn (+1). I mean how can you not love the guy?

My old life motto used to be "Defeat is always momentary." - Carl Denham. It's now: "If you set your goals ridiculously high and it’s a failure, you will fail above everyone else’s success." - James Cameron. I have been living by that anyway, but now I have a quote that fits so well. People keep telling me what I can and can't do, and I'm like John Locke, I take the bait every time and spend sleepless nights proving anyone who challenges me, wrong. In many ways it's quite pathetic that my grades got loads better after someone challenged my schoolwork capabilities last year. I don't think it's thanks to Cameron or any of the people I idolize that I developed this credo, but rather Norwegian culture. You see there's a mock "law" in Norway called The Jante Law that reads: "Don't think that you are special.". About Norwegian culture (first paragraph). Some of the more avid fans of this "law" (like burned out old teachers who feel like they have failed at life), translate it to that you shouldn't strive for the stars, because you won't reach them anyway. This provoked me from the time I was 5 years old in kindergarten, and was the only child there who could read (Norwegians learn that in 1st grade at 6 years old), and the only one there who knew what the speed of light was, from asking my parents way to many questions trying to understand Star Trek: The Next Generation at that age. I think this has a lot to do with my love of Cameron's success at always saying to people who second guess him: "F*** you, you don't what kind of metal I'm made of."

I'm feeling my worry about Avatars success ebbing away. If only the theatrical trailer is awesome...
Posted: Mon, 19th Oct 2009, 8:32pm

Post 90 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

I don't like James Cameron as a person. But I really like his movies... and that's really the only thing that matters. smile Who cares what he's like as long as he keeps making masterpieces? Although I personally would prefer someone like J.J. Abrams. Has anyone seen behind the scenes footage from Star Trek? Definitely the funniest, most lighthearted set atmosphere I've ever seen.

Staff Only wrote:

If only the theatrical trailer is awesome...
Isn't it overdue? When does the movie come out, two months? And all we've seen is a mediocre teaser trailer? I don't get it.
Posted: Mon, 19th Oct 2009, 8:43pm

Post 91 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

jawajohnny wrote:

Although I personally would prefer someone like J.J. Abrams. Has anyone seen behind the scenes footage from Star Trek? Definitely the funniest, most lighthearted set atmosphere I've ever seen.
Yeah, J.J. Abrams is a god like that. He really seems like a cool guy.

jawajohnny wrote:

Staff Only wrote:

If only the theatrical trailer is awesome...
Isn't it overdue? When does the movie come out, two months? And all we've seen is a mediocre teaser trailer? I don't get it.
It varies. People are speculating when we will get it. I think people are right to assume that it will be with 2012 to ensure that the right audience sees it and that it gets maximum exposure. So that will mean that it comes out a little over a month before the film. Cutting it a little close, but I think for Avatar it might work. Only film fans like us and Cameronites (like me) are waiting for the film. Regular people will forget the name Avatar (being a new franchise) very quickly. They need to keep the (hopefully) awesome trailer fresh in their mind when the TV Spots come around.
Posted: Tue, 20th Oct 2009, 12:06am

Post 92 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Two words, really.

Splinter. Cell.

It doesn't matter when they release the trailer now, either, because no matter what date between now and December it has already become too little too late to inspire interest and build enough exposure- even with the hype.

Now, I'm no professional ad man, I'm not claiming to know exactly best. But take this for what it is from someone who does know a thing or two about proper orchestration of hype, movie exposure, and eventual release- you have to time it properly. And two months away from a release of a major motion picture with no trailer is too late. Way too late, it doesn't matter what they do now. At all, their window for building momentum from exposure expired, and they'll suffer because of it.

Why do you think our movies are successes as far as viewership? Because we know how to properly stagger and time the information we give out and the release that follows. I don't think it'd be particularly far off from saying, with obvious but not really intended cockiness, that my movies are some of the most frequented/commented-on/watched on FXHome- and there's not a mysterious reason for that.

It's entirely in the ad campaign. In the hype. And, eventually, in the presentation that comes with the release. Now I've got a movie in the cinema with very little exposure, without a banner for it attached to my signature, and without any real build-up for it. And guess what? It's suffering because of it- a measly few responses and views almost an embarassment compared to my other movies. But I don't dance around and act like I don't know what is to blame: The marketing.

Avatar will fail, if not for the piss-shiveringly-awkward-long-necked-blue-cat-people look of the characters, lack of photorealism, deflated hype, or ego of James Cameron- then for the lack of exposure they brought upon themselves so close to game time.

I'm sorry, but this is true. It's almost sad how inevitable it is, no matter how good or bad the movie or James Cameron is. Word-of-mouth can't save a film that has a nearly non-existant ad campaign. It just can't.
Posted: Tue, 20th Oct 2009, 1:29am

Post 93 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

It's stunning how wrong you are...

We're all talking about it! We all knew about it well before the teaser came out! They could release the trailer on the first of December, and enough people would see it that it will top the box office two weeks later. There's already a huge amount of hype for it.

Oh, by the way, I think the fact that you would compare the hype for your own movie that never got finished to a multi-million dollar, sure fire blockbuster is astounding. You can't possibly think that was a good analogy... Splinter Cell is a mote of dust under a sand dune. Avatar is the Sahara desert.

You need to put some pants on, dude, because your ass is doing most of the talking. rolleyes
Posted: Tue, 20th Oct 2009, 2:08am

Post 94 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Avatar is obviously going to be huge, regardless of the marketing strategy. The only "marketing" problem I can see is that an unbelievable amount of people think this is about "Avatar: The Last Airbender"... That would be M. Night Shyamalan's movie, which they had to change to just "The Last Airbender".
Posted: Tue, 20th Oct 2009, 2:22am

Post 95 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

We are all talking about it- the same people who know about movies far before the first teaser is even release. The majority of the moviegoing audience, though? I seriously doubt it.

If I asked nearly any of the guys or girls in any of my 300+ person classes here at UT this week if they knew what Avatar was, I can almost guarantee you dollars to doughnuts 98% wouldn't have a damn clue what the hell I'm talking about, let alone that it's a movie. And even if they knew it was a movie, that 2% still probably doesn't know enough about it to warrant buying a ticket. Hell, I hardly do!

And this is the fratastic, 18-24 year old gold-mine, ticket-buying demographic most every blockbuster thrives on.

I say Splinter Cell because this movie is doing a lot of posturing with epic proportions of hype based on very little actual content to show for it thus far; with basically the only inevitable outcome being it deflates itself. Proportionally, I think the analogy works just fine, and sadly when I hear James Cameron I can't help but pathetically resound in my own words all those years ago behind something that ended up being mostly baseless or failing to capture that hype that was built.

I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. But I really doubt it, just like I doubted the 'unparalleled, game-changing photorealism' of the CG that was supposed to be Avatar. Call me a skeptic in this regard. Call me an asshole if you must. But being either or both of those things doesn't make me wrong.
Posted: Tue, 20th Oct 2009, 2:31am

Post 96 of 865

Thrawn

Force: 1995 | Joined: 11th Aug 2006 | Posts: 1962

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I have to agree with Atom on this one. Let me illustrate with a conversation I had with some friends of mine about a week ago.

Me - "So what do you guys think about James Cameron's new Avatar movie coming out?"

Friend #1 - "James Cameron has a new movie coming out? I had no idea."

Friend #2 - "Avatar? OH, you mean the last airbender movie coming out? I thought it looked okay, wasn't much a fan of the teaser though."

Me - "No no, I mean the Avatar movie. You know, the ones with the blue people?"

Friend #2 - "Blue people? What the hell are you talking about?"


Nuff said. And these two are friends that I go to see a movies with nearly every weekend of the summer. I've talked to around a dozen people about this movie, and not one of them had any previous knowledge about it. The lack of an ad campaign is going to hurt them really bad in the box office.
Posted: Tue, 20th Oct 2009, 3:13am

Post 97 of 865

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

At the end of the day, James Cameron is just kind of a freak. He's obsessed with ships and planes and the ocean, to what appears to be an unhealthy extent. Passion is one thing, but it seems like emotionally he's got deeply rooted issues that nobody seems to want to try to help him fix, probably by virtue of how big of a dick he is. As the article mentions, he's constantly willing to bite the hand that feeds.

Here, with Avatar, he's started with a blank canvas - a world all his own that he's able to create from scratch - and the best thing he comes up with (from what we can tell) is some weird tall, awkward blue people that we're convinced are revolutionary just because they're the cultivated ideas of a mid-50's nerd. Come on.
Posted: Tue, 20th Oct 2009, 3:47am

Post 98 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Yes, but it doesn't matter if no one has heard of it NOW, people will hear of it, and they will go see it.

For example: a few months ago, Dave Chapelle was in Portland, and did an impromptu performance at a public venue downtown at midnight. No one knew about this until only a few hours before the show, when Chapelle posted about it on his Twitter. Something like two thousand people showed up, purely based on word of mouth. And that's only in a matter of hours.

The movie Paranormal Activity is another example. It has no ad campaign, but was in the top of box office sales the week it opened just based on people hearing about it online and from other people who saw it. You all know that the internet spreads word fast, and Avatar actually has a conventional marketing campaign! It's silly to think that it won't do well just because it isn't being hyped to no end (by the producers, anyway.) Give Avatar two weeks of television ads, and I guarantee you'll be looking at sold out theaters on opening night. James Cameron sells, and 3D sells. This has both, it will do well.
Posted: Tue, 20th Oct 2009, 6:52am

Post 99 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Hey, look, I really just don't agree. That's all there is to it.

I don't think that's going to happen at all; because for every success without publicity/ads their have been thousands if not millions of failures. It's just plain stupid thinking to believe that a grassroots/non-existent ad campaign will immediately get you a sold-out opening day better (or the same as) a staggered media (teaser, trailers, tv spots, etc.) will. Or that the majority of the moviegoing world knows what 3D is and will pay extra to see it; let alone go because of it. I know I won't and don't go to movies because of 3D. (It's a gimmick!)

But whatever, let's discount all that for a moment. You're free to think what you want, and I've already outlined why I don't. So that's that.
Posted: Tue, 20th Oct 2009, 7:09am

Post 100 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Yeah. Well, we'll see what happens come December, won't we? I hope you've got something to wash down all those delicious words you'll be eating... wink
Posted: Tue, 20th Oct 2009, 7:31am

Post 101 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I've no doubt a mutli-million-dollar blockbuster a decade in the making will make money; none whatsoever. I just seriously doubt the epic scale it's putting itself on as far as viewership and exposure. Seriously, seriously doubting it.

Cameron is expecting another Titanic but bigger, several of his interviews dictate that. He even corrects the guy in the video Staff Only put up saying 'no, no....I made the most successful film of all time, not one of the most. It made a half a billion dollars more than the second-biggest'- just to give you an idea.

Hey, can't wait to eat my words either way- as I apparently was going to do 'when the first pics come out', then 'when the teaser comes out, that'll show you!!11', and now when the 'trailer finally comes out' or when 'the movie....'- you get the point. If anything, I'm happy to say I've been proven right nearly every step of the way towards December 18th. On basically every dooming point or prediction I've made.

It's quite a satisfyingly evil feeling of validation, really.
Posted: Tue, 20th Oct 2009, 7:35am

Post 102 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Most people I've encountered round here are well aware of it, and very excited/fearful. After the teaser came out, everyone was talking about it - whether they'd seen it or not.

Maybe it's a generational thing, slightly, as well? People in their late 20s to late 30s grew up on Cameron's 80s and early 90s stuff. I wonder whether for us, Cameron means Terminator, Aliens, The Abyss, T2, while for a slightly younger demographic he means...Titanic. Or, even, nothing at all, given his relative silence for the last decade.

Avatar will have a pretty big opening - although probably not Transformers 2 type big - and then the rest will depend on the quality of the film/3D itself. If it's geniunely great it'll run and run and run, Titanic style.
Posted: Tue, 20th Oct 2009, 8:33am

Post 103 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Tarn wrote:

If it's geniunely great it'll run and run and run, Titanic style.
Yes, the bottom line is: "Is it good?" If it is, that's that and it will run at the top and make mountains of dollars. If not, that's that in a completly other way, marketing or no. I see no reason why Cameron would make a bad film or a film that dosen't have the ability to make money. Unlike Geroge Lucas he cares very much about how many awards he wins/where his film ends up in the box office records. The article said that he studied the 10 biggest box office hits themes and plot when writing The Terminator. I think that says a lot.
Posted: Tue, 20th Oct 2009, 11:24pm

Post 104 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

The trailer premieres in theaters this Friday, October 23rd, and will be released online on October 29th. Apparently it's going to be over three minutes long.

http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/10/20/new-avatar-trailer-in-theaters-this-friday/

My only question is, what movie will it be attached to? There isn't much opening this week is there?
Posted: Wed, 21st Oct 2009, 4:40am

Post 105 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Atom... you sound crazy, man.

Who cares if people aren't talking about it right now. When it comes out the word of mouth is going to spread faster than a hooker with Bill Gates. This movie is going to blow up.

Something tells me that this has more to do with your own feelings of not being excited for the film. But in all honesty, I don't know of too many people that constantly talk about films months before the release besides filmmakers. My family/friends outside of film don't continually say "OMG I can't wait to see this movie that comes out months from now!!1!" (Unless it's a sequel/prequel or based off of pre-existing material like a book, comic, historical event, etc).

I believe the majority of talk happens when the film is out and/or shortly before the release with TV ads playing left and right (And you know they will).

And no, Splinter Cell does not equate to Avatar at all... Like... At All... (Cuz I'm pretty sure Cameron's Mom let him finish making his movie wink )
Posted: Wed, 21st Oct 2009, 9:44am

Post 106 of 865

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I don't really feel the Splinter Cell analogy deserves continuing, so here are some points as to why I think Avatar will be a success.

1 - 3D sells. Bundle that with a film as technologically progressive as Avatar and you're going to draw in crowds on basis of it being a new experience alone.

2 - Cameron's name sells. Big names generate big interest, this is why people paid to see Tim Burton's corpse bride even though it was a load of rubbish. Hell, Transformers 2 was a success.

I think the negative posturing over a teaser trailer is a little silly. The teaser alone has generated so much commentary yet I can name several films which had teasers literally of just the movies logo forming. They create buzz, and Avatar's coupled with some people getting the 15 minute technology preview has generated a lot of hype.

What bought my ticket was the fevered talk of friends who saw the 15 minute 3D preview. Assuming the final film is impressive - I expect that effect to spread dramatically.

Though of course, it's now on Cameron's shoulders to deliver but I think as far as general interest goes Avatar is doing pretty damn well. It would be a really clever move now to release the trailer in 3D before 3D cinema showings.

-Matt
Posted: Wed, 21st Oct 2009, 6:29pm

Post 107 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I'm sorry but I just laugh every time someone says something about how alluring 3D is and how much it sells on here.

Are you joking? I've never seen or met anyone who's seen a movie in 3D (at least the new-within-5-years-kind 'realD' or whatever)- and even for me the only movie I have seen in 3D is Monster's Vs Aliens, and even then I only saw it in 3D because the showtime was most convenient and they didn't charge me extra because it was going out of theaters soon anyway.

3D is not as big as many of you are making it. It's immersive to a certain extent, but by and large I believe (and I think a lot of other people do also) that it is still largely a gimmick.

And, quite frankly, it hurt my eyes to watch an entire movie with it. If you think 3D sells, look again. Maybe to nerds and comic-con devouts, but for the rest of the regular moviegoing majority- I have to say it again- I really don't at all believe it makes one damn lick of difference.

3D is a gimmick. A headache-inducing overpriced one. Most regular people see that and don't bother with it. The technology is still, I'm sorry, too crude and rough to be mainstream. That's just how it is, for now at least.

Christ, IMAX has been around for years and years showing big movies and not until the likes of The Dark Knight and Star Trek did mainstream audiences really even give that technology/viewing a chance, you know?

I think you're overestimating its power and discounting the weight of a less tech-savvy and more mainstream majority.
Posted: Wed, 21st Oct 2009, 8:30pm

Post 108 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Yes, but the whole idea of Avatar is that it's not (or it's not supposed to be) a gimmick, like most other films, where things pop out at you. Avatar is supposed to be total immersion. Am I correct? This, combined with the integration of CGI into live-action is supposedly revolutionary. "Revolutionary" will draw a lot of viewers in. Not to mention the fact that it's a James Cameron. His last movie won Best Picture and is number one at the all-time box-office. His name alone will generate a lot of interest.

And, hasn't there been a huge increase in 3D sales this year? It is a new, very successful market. Although I think the overall amount of 3D theaters is nowhere close to what Cameron was hoping for. The main problem is, the majority of people will see Avatar in conventional 2D. Regardless of how successful the movie is, wouldn't it be sort of a let down to spend years and years, and millions of dollars developing the movie and the new technology, only to have most people see the finished film in standard 2D?
Posted: Wed, 21st Oct 2009, 8:35pm

Post 109 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Atom have you seen what Avatar looks like in Real-D? Obviously it's new tech that hasn't been used on other films so I guess I'm just trying to understand how you're making claims that it's already going to be a gimmick and a headache...

And why are you always the popular decision?? You always know what the majority of people want, like and/or dislike. I'm trying to figure out how to do this myself. Is it drugs?

Your new nickname is Cameron.
Posted: Wed, 21st Oct 2009, 8:40pm

Post 110 of 865

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

RealD is a technology that's been implemented in several films already. Didn't you guys know this?

Beowulf was in RealD. Monsters vs. Aliens was. So was Up, Bolt and Cloudy With A Chance of Meatballs. And countless other films.

For the unenlightened....

biggrin

EDIT:

In classes Andrew's professor mockingly calls him Mr. Bay. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Posted: Wed, 21st Oct 2009, 8:59pm

Post 111 of 865

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Hehe, another funny thread to watch and enjoy. smile

Since we all can't forsee the future, we'll see what happens and who is going to be the one saying "I said so HAH!" which I'm sure will lead to yet another funny thread to watch and enjoy.

Personally, I'll go see it and the only thing I care about or hope for is that it's a movie I enjoy. If it is, great. If it isn't, on to the next.
Posted: Wed, 21st Oct 2009, 9:07pm

Post 112 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Yeah I know plenty of theaters offer RealD. It was a big deal in my home town when the Rave started offering it a good while back. But while plenty of RealD movies are available, the technology that Cameron used on his film was not.

And I don't see the Micheal Bay connection so much. It's Cameron from here on out ha.
Posted: Wed, 21st Oct 2009, 9:16pm

Post 113 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

CX3 wrote:

But while plenty of RealD movies are available, the technology that Cameron used on his film was not.
That's the main point. He developed a new type of camera... a whole new technology that's being applied to RealD, IMAX, Digital 3D, etc.
Posted: Wed, 21st Oct 2009, 9:37pm

Post 114 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

CX3 wrote:

And I don't see the Micheal Bay connection so much. It's Cameron from here on out ha.
Bay is known for: "All style and no substance.". If that bill fits Atom is up to anyone I guess (apparently most of all his college professor). Calling him Cameron though is sure to get him angry. How many times has Atom expressed his utmost nausea at the very thought of Cameron's style around here? (Also it's a girls name.)

Oh and if we're going to play the "I told you so game", I can say right now: Avatar will make bucket-loads of cash. I'm pretty darn sure. If it gets good reviews or not I'll predict after the theatrical trailer comes out. Then we'll see what happens in December.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Oct 2009, 12:38am

Post 115 of 865

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Rating: +2

Personally, I'm really pretty sure that it will either make some cash or it won't, but that depends on if it is good and gets good reviews, which it definitely might get, unless not. I mean, that's for sure.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Oct 2009, 5:53am

Post 116 of 865

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Toy Story 1 and 2 in 3D sold me on the RealD technology. It proved itself as non-intrusive since the films were designed without the 3D in mind. It added enough depth that I truly felt more inside the movies than I had previously, without acting as a "gimmick".

And yeah - I don't know what is up with people you know Atom, cause from my point of view I don't know one person who hasn't seen a RealD movie. The tickets have been selling like hotcakes.

If you haven't seen any movies using this technology, how the hell do you know that it's still just a gimmick? The internet told you?

I am personally really looking forward to Avatar, not just because I generally like Cameron's work (I can separate my negative opinion of his behavior on set enough from my analysis of the films as a whole. I'm not that nonsensically stubborn), but because I'm waiting with bated breath to see if this new 3D process can finally turn the technology into what it should have been doing since it was invented - enhancing storytelling.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Oct 2009, 6:26am

Post 117 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Has anyone seen the trailer for that new Disney "A Christmas Carol" movie? THAT looks gimmicky. Literally every shot is obviously tailored for "whoooaaaaa" 3D. Something dead center of the frame, coming toward the camera. It's like that old Michael Jackson one... If a movie uses the RealD tech in a sensible, subtle way, I think it could be used extremely effectively. Like looking through a window, instead of onto a screen.

Atom, you just said you've never seen a 3D movie, then proceed to say you only saw Monsters vs. Aliens in 3D because of [insert contrived excuse]. We get it: you don't like Avatar or RealD. You don't need to try so hard to have the outlying opinion.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Oct 2009, 7:30am

Post 118 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

CAPTAIN EO!

The only 'Real-D' (silly name) movie I've seen is Cloudy With A Chance Of Meatballs, which was utterly awesome. However, I don't think the film being in 3D made any difference to my opinion either way.

It did make the film slightly more immersive - the jelly castle and food weather looked great - but it didn't really affect the quality of the film.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Oct 2009, 3:25pm

Post 119 of 865

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Rating: +1

ben3308 wrote:

RealD is a technology that's been implemented in several films already. Didn't you guys know this?

Beowulf was in RealD. Monsters vs. Aliens was. So was Up, Bolt and Cloudy With A Chance of Meatballs. And countless other films.

For the unenlightened....
RealD is only a projection technology and sure, there are existing live action uses of this technology. But there's a big, big difference between simply using a tech and using it well.

Unsurprisingly, perhaps you are yet to understand that.

Has anyone ever integrated multi-million dollar CG effects with live action in RealD? No. Jawajonny said everything else pretty well. I find it amazing that anyone with any real interest in cinema or movie making at all would turn their nose up at something which is potentially revolutionary and in any event - a turning point either for or against RealD.

-Matt

Last edited Thu, 22nd Oct 2009, 3:28pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 22nd Oct 2009, 3:26pm

Post 120 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

Has anyone ever integrated multi-million dollar CG effects with live action in RealD? No.
I considered doing it for Muffy & Jebediah 2, but decided it was just a gimmick.
Posted: Thu, 22nd Oct 2009, 3:28pm

Post 121 of 865

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Tarn wrote:

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

Has anyone ever integrated multi-million dollar CG effects with live action in RealD? No.
I considered doing it for Muffy & Jebediah 2, but decided it was just a gimmick.
To this day, Muffy and Jebediah's CG still impresses me! True story. Perhaps you should do a Spielberg and re-release it in 3D?
Posted: Thu, 22nd Oct 2009, 6:11pm

Post 122 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I would gladly pay 13 bottle caps to see that.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Oct 2009, 4:12pm

Post 123 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

POW!



Can't comment on the visual quality, obviously, due to the crap-o-vision, but the movie itself is looking pretty awesome. Should be great fun, if this is anything to go by.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Oct 2009, 5:11pm

Post 124 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

And like that......it's gone.

EDIT: Here it is again. Looks more intriguing, but the use of The Island music in the beginning put me off a tad bit because it's become as by-the-book for trailers as the Requiem for a Dream song was a few years back. Other than that, though, yeah- looks cool.

Still kinda odd and I don't fare too well with the look of CG I can decipher (like Tarn said, it's in shot-it-in-a-movie-theater-crap-o-vision) but the smash to credits 'From James Cameron' 'Director of Terminator' I just really generally like in trailers a lot, so that put me back onto it.

I dunno, we'll have to wait and see. My only main complaint from the trailer, now, is that it looks dastardly predictable and generic storywise. (Big bad America/military/human race versus niche community with one person crossing sides to stop it)

Reminded me slightly of Pocahantas in a bad way. But whatever, the trailer is edited well in the latter half, a massive improvement over 'This is great....'.

EDIT 2: Also found nearly all of the acting in this trailer pretty cringe-inducingly bad. And from good actors, too. Giovanni Ribsi comes most to mind- all of his lines just sound terrible and overacted; and he's usually so good. To a smaller degree I found the same true with Sigourney Weaver and Sam Worthington and whoever the southern military guy is (perhaps the worst acting of it all). Could be in part the editing, though, I dunno.

From "you are not in Kansas anymore!" to "this is why we're HERE!" none of the lines or acting set well with me. Surprised by that facet a lot, actually. Such good actors with a director prized, for all his demerits, on pulling out good performances.

And lastly: McToothyBitch Rodriguez. Bad actress, bad attitude, hate to see her on screen. Why? Just.........why?

Last edited Fri, 23rd Oct 2009, 5:59pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Fri, 23rd Oct 2009, 5:58pm

Post 125 of 865

Fill

Force: 1257 | Joined: 1st Jul 2005 | Posts: 1652

CompositeLab Lite User EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Definitely an improvement over the last trailer. The first didn't deliver for a lot of different people in a lot of different ways, but this one seems to be more friendly to a common audience.

There are three things that can happen concerning the amount of action in that trailer: 1. all the action in the trailer is all the movie will have to offer (unlikely), 2. there is way too much action, and that's hardly any of it (very likely), and 3. there's just enough action to span the movie, and the trailer is only showing a lot of it for the sake of marketing (hopefully).
Posted: Fri, 23rd Oct 2009, 6:07pm

Post 126 of 865

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

In a completely flat rubbish quality environment, Avatar is looking pretty awesome. And whilst I agree that I felt like the story seemed relatively similar to others - I've been proven wrong by trailers in the past. Can't wait to see more of this in 3D.

As for the acting, you know - I found Brad Pitt in the trailer for Inglorious basterds acting truly awful. Gratingly bad, which I didn't feel at all during the movie. Though I get what you're saying, Atom. It's not 2012 levels of bad acting though.

-Matt
Posted: Fri, 23rd Oct 2009, 6:26pm

Post 127 of 865

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Rating: +3

Atom, you're officially revoked your "Telling-Sollthar-he-hates-everything" permit.
Posted: Fri, 23rd Oct 2009, 11:27pm

Post 128 of 865

Thrawn

Force: 1995 | Joined: 11th Aug 2006 | Posts: 1962

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Gone again... confused
Posted: Sat, 24th Oct 2009, 10:46am

Post 129 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

This probably won't last long...

Looks pretty awesome, based on the ugly video. Can't wait to see it in HD next week.
Posted: Sat, 24th Oct 2009, 10:54am

Post 130 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Thanks Aculag! I was at work yesterday from 10am to 11pm so I missed it. I told my self I wouldn't watch the bootleg, but how could I not? I'm freaking exited!!!! I'll bite my tongue until we can see it on apple. I LOVED how they went through all the movies Cameron has done, ending with his credit. Nice.

Can't wait.
Posted: Sat, 24th Oct 2009, 11:49am

Post 131 of 865

Terminal Velocity

Force: 2507 | Joined: 7th Apr 2008 | Posts: 1350

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

We will send them a message!

THIS! IS! SPARTA!

I'm mildly interested in Avatar for the first time since it was announced.
Posted: Sat, 24th Oct 2009, 5:01pm

Post 132 of 865

SuburbanElement

Force: 1152 | Joined: 16th Oct 2009 | Posts: 27

VisionLab User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Hahah i got this mixed up with the show avatar and the new movie of the last airbender. Well are the aliens supposed to have element powers or something? hardly know anything about this movie hopefully the trailer will explain it in more detail
Posted: Sat, 24th Oct 2009, 6:13pm

Post 133 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

New picture.

http://www.surrealaward.com/avatar/imagevideo/filmstill081b.jpg (copy and paste)

I'm more impressed with this than with any of the others I have seen. Looking good. biggrin

Edit: Sorry, embedding it was silly of me. Changed it to a link.

Last edited Sun, 25th Oct 2009, 8:57am; edited 3 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 25th Oct 2009, 1:20am

Post 134 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Damn. If they look that good in motion, we're in for a treat.
Posted: Sun, 25th Oct 2009, 1:39am

Post 135 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

The pic isn't coming up for me. I wanna see! mad
Posted: Sun, 25th Oct 2009, 1:44am

Post 136 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Click the quote button in his post, and copy-paste the link.
Posted: Sun, 25th Oct 2009, 4:06am

Post 137 of 865

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Even better: right click - view image
Posted: Sun, 25th Oct 2009, 6:53am

Post 138 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

This one is also new.

http://www.surrealaward.com/avatar/imagevideo/filmstill079.jpg (copy and paste)

Looks good, but I'm not sure about his hands. The sun makes them look so textureless.

Last edited Sun, 25th Oct 2009, 8:57am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 25th Oct 2009, 8:22am

Post 139 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Yeah I tried everything, even what you all mentioned (I'm on Firefox). Hell, even in safari and nothing will come up for me. That's frustrating.
Posted: Sun, 25th Oct 2009, 8:56am

Post 140 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Try this:

http://www.surrealaward.com/avatar/imagesvavatarfilmstills.shtml

It's the two topmost pictures.
Posted: Sun, 25th Oct 2009, 3:28pm

Post 141 of 865

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Staff Only wrote:

This one is also new.

http://www.surrealaward.com/avatar/imagevideo/filmstill079.jpg (copy and paste)

Looks good, but I'm not sure about his hands. The sun makes them look so textureless.
That kind of thing happens to human skin too though - so who's really to say what sun glare and over-exposed flesh tones look like on Alien skin on an Alien planet wink. I think these are looking incredible.

-Matt
Posted: Mon, 26th Oct 2009, 1:16am

Post 142 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

I think these are looking incredible.
Yeah, all the images look really great. Very photo-realistic. Actually, the more I look at the teaser trailer, I think the shots of the aliens look amazing. It's the metal that doesn't seem to hold up quite as well. I can't wait to see how the trailer looks in HD.

Atom, regarding your "bad acting" point, remember that a lot of these lines probably won't be the ones used in the actual movie. Often times, "trailer dialogue" gets replaced by alternate takes for the final cut. I'm not saying the acting in the trailer was bad... the audio quality isn't good enough for me to tell.
Posted: Mon, 26th Oct 2009, 3:18pm

Post 143 of 865

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

JawaJonny's right regarding Trailer dialogue - though often VFX gets updated between trailer and theatrical release. This is because Trailer deadlines are before movie deadlines and so there's a rush to get something out for the trailers, leaving more time to refine things for the final release.

So maybe that metal will look better wink They're still working on it I think.
-Matt
Posted: Mon, 26th Oct 2009, 3:21pm

Post 144 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

I think there's also a leeeeetle bit of conceptual confusion in some quarters, mistaking a deliberately ethereal, dreamlike visual style for 'bad CG'. Doesn't mean you have to like the style, of course. But personally I'd be blaming the style rather than the technical quality.

Plus, of course, there's the inevitable Internet Factor which makes people proclaim something as outright 'bad' just because it isn't perfect. Internet opinions are often so black and white as to be ridiculous.

Last edited Mon, 26th Oct 2009, 5:21pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 26th Oct 2009, 5:12pm

Post 145 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Tarn wrote:

I think there's also a leeeeetle bit of conceptual confusion in some quarters, mistaking a deliberately ethereal, dreamlike visual style for 'bad CG'.

Plus, of course, there's the inevitable Internet Factor which makes people proclaim something as outright 'bad' just because it isn't perfect. Internet opinions are often so black and white as to be ridiculous.
I believe you are 100% right about this.

The metal and the embarrassing clipping mistake in the teaser have been fixed in the very shot that made people wonder about Avatars supposed photorealism. Perhaps James Cameron spoke out of turn when he disregarded clipping issues in the video I posted here several times. It would seem that avoiding clipping is the very least you could do to sell Pandora. I was also awed by the the tree that fell in the trailer. Avatar should be to movies what Crysis was to games in terms of technical achievement (and awesome looking CGI jungle).

Also Cameron has said:

“In the most important respects as a director, I’m 100 percent done because the film is shot and edited,” the silver-haired auteur replied when we asked what he still needs to do between now and December. “My job for the next few months until we deliver at the end of November is more as a visual effects person, working to make sure that the shots look real, that they’re all up to an even standard.

“In terms of a film’s cut, the studio has seen it,” he declared. “They were pretty happy with it. You saw finished material so there are whole sections of the film that are actually done. It’s just a question of getting in some of the remaining scenes from what we call template level where it looks like a video game up to the level of photo-realism. All the template stuff was turned over to WETA (Digital, Peter Jackson’s visual effects company) like a year ago or in some cases, six months ago for the shots that will come in last. The process is quite labor intensive. I’m working 14, 16 hours a day but all the major creative decisions have been made.”


This is also very reassuring. It hopefully means that there are no dinosaur-stampedee looking sequences in the finished film. He also said on Avatars (Na'vi) having tails:

“The studio asked me the same question. They asked, ‘Do they have to have tails?’ We’re very happy with the way the Na’vi worked out because what we found is the tail and the ears show the characters’ emotional state. A cat owner knows that you can tell a cat’s mood by what its tail is doing. Just as we created a verbal language, we created a vocabulary for the tail and the ears.”

Which makes me think that people complaining about the design of the Na'vi can do so after they have seen the film (or not at all). As Cameron isn't adapting source material, the Na'vi can look however he wants them to. It is of course preferable that the audience likes them too, but then I think they will.

Here's the whole article about the design of the Na'vi. It's a good article for those interested.
Posted: Tue, 27th Oct 2009, 12:34am

Post 146 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Hmmm... Avatar might not be as "original" as we've been led to believe:

http://io9.com/5390226/did-james-cameron-rip-off-poul-andersons-novella

Not that I care at all. If it's a good movie, I won't care in the least that Cameron was "inspired" in any way.


EDIT: Heh. Take a look at the cover art...
Posted: Tue, 27th Oct 2009, 12:15pm

Post 147 of 865

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Delgo yet.

http://www.joblo.com/index.php?id=28178 - this is all old news. The only originality I'm counting on really is the tech. Everything else has been full explored by sci-fi fiction a long, long time ago and Avatar is of course, heavily influenced by all that.

Not dissimilar from how The Matrix copied sci-fi like Neuromancer and Snow Crash. If you've read either of those books you'll guffaw at how copy pasted parts are, down to place names. razz

-Matt
Posted: Tue, 27th Oct 2009, 2:09pm

Post 148 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

I'm pretty sure Atom mentioned Delgo around page 4 (I'm to lazy to check). While the comparison-picture was shocking, the myth has pretty much been busted that Delgo is anything like Avatar at all. After the uproar several people actually saw Delgo, and have denied all similarities. If people continue the comparing I guess I'll watch Delgo myself.
Posted: Tue, 27th Oct 2009, 7:17pm

Post 149 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Not to mention the fact that Avatar was written before Delgo. In this case, it's more likely that the Delgo people ripped off Cameron's Avatar script (which leaked out sometime in the 90's I heard). Although there's apparently no comparison and any similarities are only coincidence.

This new thing kind of reminds me of that whole Harlan Ellison/Terminator situation.
Posted: Tue, 27th Oct 2009, 7:55pm

Post 150 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I think it's less that it 'copied' per se and more that it's just- at least from everything I've been given/seen of it- a terribly generic and cliche-looking story. No one really has to have copied anyone because the whole 'cross enemy lines, realize you're the bad guy' theme is basically its own genre.

Whereas something that The Matrix lifted from previous works is a different scenario, both because it's allure and success wasn't in the story but the world it opened up within that story and the stylistic techniques it employed- and the fact that, even if it was copied in part- the story was fresh enough for me at least not to notice or care.

Whereas, like I said, I pretty much see the entire movie and plot of Avatar in the trailer; and it's basically just as expected from that kind of story.

Delgo may have similarities that I mentioned, but also look at Battle For Terra. Yeeeeeah.
Posted: Tue, 27th Oct 2009, 10:35pm

Post 151 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

jawajohnny wrote:

Not to mention the fact that Avatar was written before Delgo.
Correct and Avatar's script leaked in the 90s.

Atom wrote:

Delgo may have similarities that I mentioned, but also look at Battle For Terra. Yeeeeeah.
Again the script leaked in the 90s and the film has been in production since before 2005 (hence why he owned the title long before Avatar The Last Airbender). It would take nothing to make a couple of lower tier animation films for children in the time it took to make Avatar (a big part of this decade) and try to suck some cash out of Avatar's hype. Not that I have any knowledge that this happened, but it has been known to happen before.

But you are right Atom, Avatar's basic plot has never been that original, the trick is going to lie in the execution. There's a rumor that the film will be over 3 hours long. It's also going to sweep King Kong throne for most VFX shot in a film. Both Kong and Revenge of the Sith lie neatly around 2300 (Kong 2005 has the most number of visual special effect shots - around 2400. It surpasses the record set by Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005), which has 2200 shots as well as the previous Lord of the Rings movies (FOTR has 560, TTT has 800, ROTK has 1488)), “Avatar” has nearly three thousand effects shots. And then there is Cameron's knack for epicness (that's a word right?). I have a feeling the movie will easily surpass the basic plot.
Posted: Tue, 27th Oct 2009, 11:15pm

Post 152 of 865

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Star Wars is a copy of almost every single story since the dawn of storytelling. That turned out terribly.
Posted: Tue, 27th Oct 2009, 11:38pm

Post 153 of 865

Terminal Velocity

Force: 2507 | Joined: 7th Apr 2008 | Posts: 1350

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Evman wrote:

Star Wars is a copy of almost every single story since the dawn of storytelling. That turned out terribly.
Which one? The prequels or sequels? Neither were terribly original, but the original trilogy was pretty good with the sci-fi/fantasy blend.
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 12:05am

Post 154 of 865

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Rating: +1

I think the point is that Star Wars was original with the format, not the substance, as Avatar might well be.
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 12:25am

Post 155 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Pooky wrote:

I think the point is that Star Wars was original with the format, not the substance, as Avatar might well be.
You hit the nail on the head right there. Star Wars told a "classic" story in a completely new and revolutionary way. Cameron is obviously going for the same effect.
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 12:44am

Post 156 of 865

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Richard III wrote:

Evman wrote:

Star Wars is a copy of almost every single story since the dawn of storytelling. That turned out terribly.
Which one? The prequels or sequels? Neither were terribly original, but the original trilogy was pretty good with the sci-fi/fantasy blend.
I forgot that sarcasm doesn't fly on the internet... sad
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 7:20am

Post 157 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Evman wrote:

I forgot that sarcasm doesn't fly on the internet... sad
I got the sarcasm. smile The only way to make sarcasm plainer is using liberal amounts of smileys.
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 8:29am

Post 158 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

jawajohnny wrote:

Pooky wrote:

I think the point is that Star Wars was original with the format, not the substance, as Avatar might well be.
You hit the nail on the head right there. Star Wars told a "classic" story in a completely new and revolutionary way. Cameron is obviously going for the same effect.
The only aspect that we new and revolutionary were the visual effects, and possibly the sound. The story is just classic Hero's Journey stuff, and the stylings are pure Flash Gordon.

As for Avatar...it is indeed adhering closely to the "realise YOU'RE the enemy!" storyline that's been done a million times, notably in stuff like Dune, but that doesn't mean it's a bad story. I mean, there's a reason that it's become almost a genre of its own: it's because it's a popular motif.

Avatar will succeed or fail on how successfully it sucks you into a completely fabricated world. I'd say the story is secondary to that.
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 9:39am

Post 159 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Tarn wrote:

Avatar will succeed or fail on how successfully it sucks you into a completely fabricated world. I'd say the story is secondary to that.
Basically what I mean about The Matrix.
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 1:53pm

Post 160 of 865

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Atom wrote:

Whereas something that The Matrix lifted from previous works is a different scenario, both because it's allure and success wasn't in the story but the world it opened up within that story and the stylistic techniques it employed- and the fact that, even if it was copied in part- the story was fresh enough for me at least not to notice or care.
The Matrix's success can be summarized by "Ignorance and Bullet Time" then razz. Don't worry, I agree - The Matrix brought with it a different and new cinema going experience and fans of the content which influenced it were mostly pleased that a film was representing sci-fi ideals in a cool way.

Fingers are crossed that Avatar will do the same.

Just a note - the script for avatar has been around for a while, but the character and environmental design may not have been. I think that was the main issue with people who cite Delgo.

-Matt
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 2:08pm

Post 161 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

The Matrix brought with it a different and new cinema going experience and fans of the content which influenced it were mostly pleased that a film was representing sci-fi ideals in a cool way.

Fingers are crossed that Avatar will do the same.
Agreed. People that were unaware of prior cyberpunk content found something new and cool, and people that were already versed finally got to see it done well on film.

Avatar looks like it's going to do the same for fans of non-Tolkien fantasy and imaginative fiction in general. Most of the moviegoing public think that fantasy = Lord of the Rings and scifi = Star Wars, so it's always exciting when they get to glimpse the real treasure trove of stuff that can be found in the more varied mediums of the written word (novel/comic/short story/whatever).

Same goes for comic books, which is why it's a shame Watchmen wasn't a broader success and more accessible. Generally, most moviegoers still think that comics = Batman, Superman and Spiderman.
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 2:10pm

Post 162 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

Just a note - the script for avatar has been around for a while, but the character and environmental design may not have been. I think that was the main issue with people who cite Delgo.
True, but Delgo was released in December 2008. The effects shots that are being finished for Avatar as we speak were sent to Weta around then (ergo the design for Avatar was ready long before Delgo was released.). Cameron says the effects shot that will be finished right before shipment were sent to Weta 6 months ago. So Avatar was far underway with CGI far less design. Avatar has had a 4 year post production.
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 2:14pm

Post 163 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Surely nobody is seriously saying that there's anything fishy going on between Delgo and Avatar? It's just an amusing coincidence.

Both Delgo and Avatar contain recognisable fantasy/sci-fi elements. The native creatures are all quite familiar fantasy elf type creatures, while the human scifi stuff is reminiscent of Cameron's other works and the likes of Starship Troopers.

I imagine it's fairly deliberate, the point (in theory) being that we've never seen it done quite like this, quite this realistically.

Basically what it was like for fans of the original Transformers cartoon to FINALLY see the amazing photoreal work by ILM in the new movies. (leaving aside the issue of the godawful new designs)
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 2:21pm

Post 164 of 865

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Staff Only wrote:

True, but Delgo was released in December 2008. The effects shots that are being finished for Avatar as we speak were sent to Weta around then (ergo the design for Avatar was ready long before Delgo was released.). Cameron says the effects shot that will be finished right before shipment were sent to Weta 6 months ago. So Avatar was far underway with CGI far less design.
Delgo started being worked on in 1999 and by nature of being animated would require character and environment design at least roughed right from the start due to it being an animated film. So maybe Delgo got there 'first'.

Though I don't think Avatar could have copied Delgo because when Delgo design went into the public eye - Avatar had already been designed. and that similarities are likely taken out of context. I could find similarities between most films and provide a convincing case if I only provided still images.

All this is kind of an aside to the point I wanted to make anyway, I agree that originality is non-essential to a superior and enjoyable movie. Harry Potter is influenced very heavily by a lot of Pratchett though the Potter films are superior to the Pratchett ones, for example.

Avatar has had a 4 year post production.
Hell, I know. It's not like I work in Visual Effects in the most condensed VFX Capitol of the world or anything razz

-Matt
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 3:04pm

Post 165 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

Hell, I know. It's not like I work in Visual Effects in the most condensed VFX Capitol of the world or anything razz
Right you are! biggrin

Well I thought you were saying it's plausible Avatar ripped Delgo off, but even if they could have, and even if it was plausible, Cameron would never be caught dead ripping off such a sure flop. Cameron's m.o. is "borrowing" ideas from highly grossing films and turning those ideas into even higher grossing films. I have my money on amusing coincidence. I believe in the theory that there is a collective imagination among humans. That's why we go through phases of ideas in culture. Like: this year Avatar will be the third (fourth?) film exploring out of body consciousness.

Also about The Matrix: bullet-time and thematic elements aside, the film is excellent. Just watch it. It's a perfect take on The Hero's Journey (like Star Wars). And so should Avatar be.
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 5:02pm

Post 166 of 865

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

By the way, did I mention I work in the industry?

Just realized how that sounded and apologize to anyone unfortunate enough to read it.

I think Harry Potter also follows the Hero's Journey plot doesn't it? Amusing.

I like the idea of culturally going through conceptual phases - though I'm not totally sure it's true, thematically books like 1984 still hold strong today and the technological existentialist philosophy is only just creeping into mainstream despite being covered extensively in the 80s in Sci-Fi and the occasional film.

So maybe the cultural waves of thought are driven by media/fiction of the few! That said - there are undeniable film trends.

-Matt
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 5:41pm

Post 167 of 865

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Rating: +1

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

By the way, did I mention I work in the industry?
You utter arse!
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 5:45pm

Post 168 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

So maybe the cultural waves of thought are driven by media/fiction of the few!
This is the most plausible explanation, but I like to think it has something to do with evolution of human thought. Over the course of our evolution different aspects of existence and The Universe interest us, and a lot of people just spontaneously start exploring them at the same time.

Also about rip-offs and the need of originality to be excellent art: see The Incredibles. The Incredibles takes an interesting aspect of Watchmen (which Brad Bird claims he did not know of when he wrote The Incredibles. Heck I believe him. How many times have you come up with the awesomest idea ever, pitched it to whomever was next you only for them to say: "You mean like [insert already created work]?".), and packs it into a Fantastic 4 foreground. Even the Michael Giacchino score (that I love) has constantly been called a rip-off. Did any of this make The Incredibles any less incredible? Not to me, no. The theory that anything can be turned into a great, entertaining movie is something I like to think. Toy Story is my favorite example of this. Who would have thought that a movie where 15cm tall toys are the main characters that spend most of the movie in a suburban house could be so exiting and interesting?

This is also why I believe that re-makes can be better that their original counterparts. I haven't seen King Kong 1933 (don't hit me), but I am a big fan of King Kong 2005. I arrogantly used to tell my friend that 2005 surely must be better because it's over 70 years more evolved. He said: "Granted 2005 has a better script, better acting, better directing, better visual effects, but it will never be like 1933." This is where I said: "Then 2005 is better."

So in closing what I mean is that if Avatar has: a better script, better acting, better directing, better visual effects, better [insert aspect of moviemaking] etc. than the other "realize I am the enemy" films I say: "Good for Avatar. You are the best.". Which is probably exactly what Cameron is going for here.

Tarn wrote:

Avatar will succeed or fail on how successfully it sucks you into a completely fabricated world.
Yes, and Avatar is probably the movie that has worked hardest on this aspect ever. Cameron actually hired someone to create a complete language for the Na'vi. I've also read that the sex scene will not be standard human penetration, but rather something only known as "Na'vi style" yet (it will also probably be the first CGI sex scene that has a straight face, which is a testament to how far CGI has come).
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 5:55pm

Post 169 of 865

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Staff Only wrote:

I've also read that the sex scene will not be standard human penetration, but rather something only known as "Na'vi style"
I smell a new fad catching on...
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 6:23pm

Post 170 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Pooky wrote:

I smell a new fad catching on...
Hah, that made me laugh out loud. biggrin

I guess that depends on if humans are capable of even performing Na'vi style on each other. Also I must say that this is not confirmed as far as I know, and the people who saw the footage on Avatar Day said it cut right before the sex scene, yet no-one comented on anything strange going on prior to the deed. I guess we'll see. Hehe.
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 10:06pm

Post 171 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I hope it's like in Mass Effect where they get all naked to fake everyone out and then MINDMELD.
Posted: Wed, 28th Oct 2009, 11:34pm

Post 172 of 865

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

They could take all their clothes off, one by one, and then go "Ah, much better now, it was so warm before", and then leave.
Posted: Thu, 29th Oct 2009, 7:20am

Post 173 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809804784/trailer

There we go. Enjoy!
Posted: Thu, 29th Oct 2009, 5:54pm

Post 174 of 865

Thrawn

Force: 1995 | Joined: 11th Aug 2006 | Posts: 1962

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

EDIT: Oops, it was posted already.

Not sure what I think of the trailer. I couldn't help but laughing at how James Cameron promoted himself throughout the whole trailer. "From the director of... Aliens... Terminator.. Terminator 2.. True Lies.. Titanic.." and than at the end "AVATAR...Written AND Directed by James Cameron". I mean, I know trailer usually have one or two "From the producers of ------" but I think he went a little overboard.

Otherwise I enjoyed it. The animation looks pretty good, just not totally sold on the plot.
Posted: Thu, 29th Oct 2009, 6:29pm

Post 175 of 865

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Not supported in my location? God, I hate copyright laws.
Posted: Thu, 29th Oct 2009, 6:33pm

Post 176 of 865

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Thrawn wrote:

EDIT: Oops, it was posted already.

Not sure what I think of the trailer. I couldn't help but laughing at how James Cameron promoted himself throughout the whole trailer. "From the director of... Aliens... Terminator.. Terminator 2.. True Lies.. Titanic.." and than at the end "AVATAR...Written AND Directed by James Cameron". I mean, I know trailer usually have one or two "From the producers of ------" but I think he went a little overboard.

Otherwise I enjoyed it. The animation looks pretty good, just not totally sold on the plot.
I believe that was the marketing department, not Cameron himself. They have a tough sell - a big movie with no huge stars and an outlandish, somewhat off-putting at first glance concept. The guys at Fox who made this trailer know that Cameron is the only recognizable name to mainstream audiences, especially when they see all the names of the movies he's made... TITANIC!!! Come on.

Anyway, this trailer is awesome. Such an improvement and I hope it's enough to get the word out about this movie more fiercely. The CG looks leaps and bounds better than it did in the teaser, and this actually made it seem incredibly exciting.

Can anyone with Snow Leopard not download the HD versions? I keep getting "qtlHD.qtl" files that Quicktime X doesn't want to play... Have I ever mentioned that I HATE yahoo trailers?
Posted: Thu, 29th Oct 2009, 7:38pm

Post 177 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Thrawn wrote:

I couldn't help but laughing at how James Cameron promoted himself throughout the whole trailer. "From the director of... Aliens... Terminator.. Terminator 2.. True Lies.. Titanic.." and than at the end "AVATAR...Written AND Directed by James Cameron". I mean, I know trailer usually have one or two "From the producers of ------" but I think he went a little overboard.
That was my favorite part! Finally a movie that respects the Auteur theory. razz

Evman wrote:

Can anyone with Snow Leopard not download the HD versions? I keep getting "qtlHD.qtl" files that Quicktime X doesn't want to play... Have I ever mentioned that I HATE yahoo trailers?
My brother figured it out. He downloaded the "qtlHD.qtl" file, then renamed it to "qtlHD.mov" and opened it QTX. wink Enjoy.

Pooky wrote:

Not supported in my location? God, I hate copyright laws.
Scroll over the ">HD" button and download the resolution you want.

Also I couldn't agree more, Evman. This trailer made the film look like it could shoulder the 3 hour+ runtime. And, as you said, the effects looked miles better. I also just think the whole thing feels really, really epic, like the Star Trek trailer.

December 18th will be great.
Posted: Thu, 29th Oct 2009, 8:17pm

Post 178 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'll give you this is an epic, well-edited (at least in the latter half) trailer, Staff Only. But don't try and compare it to the Star Trek trailer.

I mean, no trailer this year compares to the FIRE EVERYTHING!!!! None.
Posted: Thu, 29th Oct 2009, 8:36pm

Post 179 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Atom wrote:

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'll give you this is an epic, well-edited (at least in the latter half) trailer, Staff Only. But don't try and compare it to the Star Trek trailer.

I mean, no trailer this year compares to the FIRE EVERYTHING!!!! None.
Perhaps you are right. I can't tell, I'm just to biased. I LOVE the Star Trek trailer no argument there, and I was also over the top exited after seeing that. Avatar looses a bit because with the Star Trek trailer that was the first time we saw J.J.'s world. If this was the first time we saw Pandora I would think that it would have as much impact.

Also Star Trek didn't have anyone drinking coffee.

Posted: Thu, 29th Oct 2009, 8:59pm

Post 180 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +2

There's scotch in that cup, and you know it. smile
Posted: Thu, 29th Oct 2009, 9:05pm

Post 181 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Aculag wrote:

There's scotch in that cup, and you know it. smile
Hah, you got me. Here I was going for the PG-13.
Posted: Fri, 30th Oct 2009, 12:35am

Post 182 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +2

Wow. eek While I've been pretty skeptical, this trailer has me pretty excited. This is really looking incredible. The photo-realism is freaking amazing, especially the close-ups of the aliens. The story is looking good as well... just what I'd expect from a movie like this.

EDIT: Cool new featurette with new footage: "Cameron's Vision"
Posted: Fri, 30th Oct 2009, 3:34pm

Post 183 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

jawajohnny wrote:

EDIT: Cool new featurette with new footage: "Cameron's Vision"
I think I have to learn breathing exercises so I don't faint from excitement when I actually see the film. Great featurette.

This is also pretty cool.
Posted: Sat, 31st Oct 2009, 6:22pm

Post 184 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Hmmm... did anyone know ILM was working on this? I just read that on imdb.

Anyway, finally got to download the HD version, and I'm totally blown away. 1:57-1:58 in the trailer looks unbelievable... like it's completely real. I'm really eating my own words from a few weeks ago. That feeling of skepticism is completely gone.
Posted: Sat, 31st Oct 2009, 6:28pm

Post 185 of 865

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Are saying there's both WETA and ILM working on this same movie at the same time?
Posted: Sat, 31st Oct 2009, 9:40pm

Post 186 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

jawajohnny wrote:

Hmmm... did anyone know ILM was working on this? I just read that on imdb.
Yes (I have ILM's IMDb page bookmarked, I check it at least once a month), but as I don't think the backseat suits ILM, I try to forget. No seriously: why Cameron didn't go with ILM in the first we might never know, but if he did it completley without ILM I might have told him off if I ever saw him (as supposed to kissing his shoes). I did however get a kick out of knowing my favorite VFX Supervisor John Knoll is supervising the ILM part (even though it's not listed on IMDb for some reason). I hope we soon can get some insight into who did what so I immediately can say: "Yeah I always got the feeling from the trailer that [insert ILM shots] were superior to the rest."

Pooky wrote:

Are saying there's both WETA and ILM working on this same movie at the same time?
Yeah, and it's not the first time. Remember Eragon? Yeah, not a good film. Great effects though (ILM had the front seat there).

Even cooler: VFX supervisor for Gollum and King Kong (Joe Letteri) and VFX Supervisor for Davy Jones (John Knoll) are working on the same project at the same time. It just goes to prove that no matter how "non-photorealistic" people say Avatar looks it has the best CGI ever made in it. There's no way around it. The best artist and engineers in the world have been privileged to work with a revolutionary effects director on the most prestigious CGI project since the likes of Phantom Menace. I only regret that ILM didn't do most of the work. I still believe that ILM is capable of stuff only NASA can hold a candle to.
Posted: Sat, 31st Oct 2009, 9:56pm

Post 187 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I think as far as CG goes this is still pretty far off from 'the best ever made'. For my money nothing has yet topped, as far as immersion into the film/believability/photrealism goes, the first Transformers film or Davy Jones in Pirates.

Additionally, as far as how it was implemented, Star Trek takes a pretty heavy piece of the cake for special effects this year. IMO moreso than (what I've thus far seen of) Avatar does.
Posted: Sat, 31st Oct 2009, 10:08pm

Post 188 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Atom wrote:

I think as far as CG goes this is still pretty far off from 'the best ever made'. For my money nothing has yet topped, as far as immersion into the film/believability/photrealism goes, the first Transformers film or Davy Jones in Pirates.

Additionally, as far as how it was implemented, Star Trek takes a pretty heavy piece of the cake for special effects this year. IMO moreso than (what I've thus far seen of) Avatar does.
I know what you mean. My post was not clear. You believe that the CGI is measured in realism alone (which of course it is). But if you extend that logic invisible effects are the best, and that is of course wrong, because CGI is an art of itself and the hardest/most expensive/elaborate is in this branch also considered to be the best (well the one that wins the awards). My point was that this is the hardest CGI to make, to date, and it is made by the worlds best people who literally are the guys who set the standard in the first place. Only this time they had more money, more time and more manpower albeit a much harder task. Logically human evolution and the evolution of computers dictates that Avatars CGI will be better, considering that that is what Cameron was trying to do when he hired the guys he was trying to beat and handed them the task of outdoing themselves. Know what I mean? I think you might agree that whilst perhaps not as photo-real as Pirates or Transformers, Avatar certainly is more impressive.
Posted: Sat, 31st Oct 2009, 10:18pm

Post 189 of 865

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Atom wrote:

I think as far as CG goes this is still pretty far off from 'the best ever made'. For my money nothing has yet topped, as far as immersion into the film/believability/photrealism goes, the first Transformers film or Davy Jones in Pirates.

Additionally, as far as how it was implemented, Star Trek takes a pretty heavy piece of the cake for special effects this year. IMO moreso than (what I've thus far seen of) Avatar does.
Yeah, nothing tops Transformers or Pirates. However, there are shots of brilliance in this trailer that rival both films. Doesn't this look as real, if not more real than Davy Jones? If most of the rest of the film looks like that, I'll be the first to say, "best ever made".
Posted: Sat, 31st Oct 2009, 10:26pm

Post 190 of 865

Evman

Force: 4382 | Joined: 25th Jan 2004 | Posts: 3609

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

jawajohnny wrote:



Anyway, finally got to download the HD version, and I'm totally blown away. 1:57-1:58 in the trailer looks unbelievable... like it's completely real. I'm really eating my own words from a few weeks ago. That feeling of skepticism is completely gone.
Yep. I thought the same thing. That and a lot of other closeups look photoreal, while the wideshots are still suffering a little bit. I noticed this in the teaser more, but here it's definitely noticeable. Which is weird, considering how notoriously, the policy has been to keep visual effects shots wide, so as to avoid showing the audience the flaws.

We have never ever seen anything as photoreal as the shot you listed above. I'd say that single shot, hands down beats Davy Jones, Gollum, and any other CG character ever put on film. Let's hope most of the film looks that good.

I mean Jesus... just look at this:
Posted: Sat, 31st Oct 2009, 11:23pm

Post 191 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

That is insane.
Posted: Sat, 31st Oct 2009, 11:27pm

Post 192 of 865

Terminal Velocity

Force: 2507 | Joined: 7th Apr 2008 | Posts: 1350

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I agree on most of the points, except one thing; I still haven't seen a CG character that gets across the projected mood as much as Gollum. Davy Jones looks quite nasty, this blue person (Na'vi?) looks like an exotic native...but I thought Gollum had the real attitude behind him: schizophrenic, tortured, etc. This may be just because of Serkis's awesome voicing, or that his character is more exaggerated...this is just my humble opinion.
Posted: Sun, 1st Nov 2009, 12:35am

Post 193 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

To be perfectly fair, these characters haven't had time to get a point across. You've only seen them in motion for seconds at a time. Your comparisons are meaningless without having seen the whole movie.
Posted: Sun, 1st Nov 2009, 12:38am

Post 194 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Richard III wrote:

This may be just because of Serkis's awesome voicing, or that his character is more exaggerated
That would be correct. You are referring to Serkis' great performance. I myself happen to enjoy Bill Nighy as Jones that much more because of all the odd facial expressions we never had seen in CGI before.

Still I am sure you will see that even if Worthington and Saldana can't match Serkis (which I think they can), their performance-capture will give an infinitely more detailed/subtle performance from the Na'vi than mo-cap did for Gollum (and keyframing. Jackson said he had to ask the animators to tone it down several times, so it could be subtle). The reason Davy's face looked so good was that ILM artists keyframed the whole thing after Nighy's performance. No out-dated mo-cap used. So beating Pirates will be a feat indeed. Then again as I mentioned earlier: Cameron literally hired the guys behind Davy Jones, Gollum and King Kong to do Avatar. It's the same people with newer technology and 4-6 years more experience. You do the math.
Posted: Sun, 1st Nov 2009, 4:52pm

Post 195 of 865

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Staff Only wrote:

You believe that the CGI is measured in realism alone (which of course it is).
I think you might agree that whilst perhaps not as photo-real as Pirates or Transformers, Avatar certainly is more impressive.
Gonna have to go with you the other way on these ones, man. Believability is key when I see CG moreso than traditional photorealism is. I don't care if it's a giant robot monkey on a purple planet I'm seeing so long as I'm sold that what I'm seeing is there. A mixture of how well orchestrated the visual effects are into the production, the creativity behind the way they look and are implemented, and the care put into photorealism to me all add up to believability.

Transformers gave me that more than any other movie has. I believed they were actually talking to gigantic robots. Avatar hasn't yet; although that doesn't mean it can't. We'll have to wait and see.

And I don't really agree with the second statement- just because someone researches and develops a way of doing things in an artform doesn't necessarily make their work art; nor does it really make it all that good. Not to say Avatar doesn't have it's good bits of CG, it does, but I'd say I'm more impressed that a movie like Pirates or Transformers can get produced so quickly and retain such an unparalleled CGI value. That, to me, is more impressive.
Posted: Sun, 1st Nov 2009, 9:38pm

Post 196 of 865

No Respite Productions

Force: 985 | Joined: 4th Dec 2006 | Posts: 482

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

For those of you who were worried that this film wasn't going to bother with much of an advertising campaign, I just saw an advert on TV which was actually just advertising that there was a trailer on the film's website.

A bit OTT, be interesting to see how often that advert crops up before they start with the proper adverts for the theatrical release.
Posted: Sun, 1st Nov 2009, 10:11pm

Post 197 of 865

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

For one thing, they'll be advertising during the World Series. There isn't going to be a shortage of advertising for this movie. No way in hell.
Posted: Sun, 1st Nov 2009, 10:39pm

Post 198 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

They even just had an advertisement during the Vikings/Packers game and even a:

"This game is brought to you by Avatar."

Everyone will have heard about this movie before it comes out. "too little too late" my ass, Atom haha.

Last edited Sun, 1st Nov 2009, 11:08pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 1st Nov 2009, 10:57pm

Post 199 of 865

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

CX3 wrote:

They even just had an advertisement during the Vikings/Packers game.

"NFL something blah blah brought to you by Avatar."
Nice!

When the word spread last week that Avatar was going to be advertised with football, people knew Fox weren't going to drop the ball on this one. Fox are hoping for new box office records as much as Cameron is.
Posted: Sun, 1st Nov 2009, 11:07pm

Post 200 of 865

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

True. What's great is that they're full 60 second spots too, which allow for much more build up and hype than the 30 second ones.

Page 1 of 5: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 | Next