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Heroes volume 5 Redemtion

Posted: Fri, 4th Sep 2009, 7:54pm

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ahartwig01

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUIbya7eBJU

Who else is really excited for the new season of heroes?? and if you're not id love to hear why
Posted: Fri, 4th Sep 2009, 10:15pm

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FreshMentos

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People still watch this crap?
Posted: Fri, 4th Sep 2009, 10:43pm

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spydurhank

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Yeah dude,
After season one... this show bit extremely large chunks out of the spheres underneath the belly of a donkey.

The following seasons were a crapload of randomness that never led anywhere. I understand they were trying to be fresh and exiting, but any plot or interesting character that came along were quickly slapped aside with absolutely no regard for the story just so they could quickly move on to the next plot or character that they would quickly dismiss. See? After the first season.... no one and nothing was used to it's full potential.

It was like they wrote their own version of a comic book series in which the stories dramatically change from one to the other with no sense or reason. That's very poor writing compared to the first season.

I may or may not watch this season.
Posted: Fri, 4th Sep 2009, 11:33pm

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ahartwig01

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i respectfully disagree i think season 1 was the best i disregard season 2 because of the writers strike they had end it abruptly and i thought season3 was barely off season 1s mark and season 4 looks like theyre back in the groove
Posted: Fri, 4th Sep 2009, 11:34pm

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FreshMentos

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I forgot to mention how abysmally poor the editing for that promo was. I don't understand how anyone would be able to excited for this next season after watching it.

I used to love Heroes btw. First season was fantastic, but that's as far as it went for me.
Posted: Sat, 5th Sep 2009, 12:11am

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spydurhank

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ahartwig01 wrote:

i respectfully disagree i think season 1 was the best
That's sorta what I said. After season one... they choked pretty bad on donkey under parts. Season one was the only one that I liked.
Posted: Sat, 5th Sep 2009, 12:32am

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Aculag

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It's pretty funny that they're calling this volume "Redemption". As if they truly believe that it's ever going to be good again.

Season one started off rocky, but got great toward the end, then fell on its ass for the finale. Season two had some memorable bits, but it was clear they had no real direction by the end. I stopped watching halfway through season 3 because it made absolutely no sense and they had written themselves into so many corners that the best they could do to fix it was just have everyone change sides/motivation for NO REASON. Even Sylar, who was an interesting character, was neutered by flipping his alliegiance at the drop of a hat for anyone at all.

Didn't watch any of "volume 4" (the volumes thing is so silly, just call it a season, damn you!) and from what i've heard, it isn't worth watching. And from what I've seen of the new season, they still have no idea where to take things, and it'll be just as terrible as season 2 and 3.

It went from average to awesome to abysmal, and then flatlined. There will be no redemption. I really hope they kill this show soon.
Posted: Sat, 5th Sep 2009, 12:56am

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RodyPolis

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You guys are so hateful
Posted: Sat, 5th Sep 2009, 1:49am

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Atom

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Rating: +1

Heroes is like having this teenage superathlete son that graduates high school with everything, but doesn't get a job or go to college; and instead decides not to ever do anything else, and ends up pathetically, embarrassingly clinging to hold onto a long-passed glory even into his 40s.
Posted: Sat, 5th Sep 2009, 2:04am

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spydurhank

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RodyPolis wrote:

You guys are so hateful
Sorry if it sounds that way to you, I know I didn't mean for it to sound that way.

I wont speak for the other guys but in my opinion...
The show was great at first... it just seemed to turn into a bunch of gibberish surrounded by nonsense wrapped around bad writing after season one. At least that's how I saw it.

They had all this good material but didn't follow through with it.
You'd get one story line only to have it jump rather abruplty into another story line which leaves you wondering what the hell happened to the story beforehand.
It was like being in a tug of war... you get pulled forward only to stumble backwards then forwards again and you can't seem to get a solid foothold.
Posted: Sat, 5th Sep 2009, 3:21am

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RodyPolis

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Ya, I guess we all can agree that the days of 'save the cheerleader, save the world' were better than the rest. I said you guys are hateful cause with all the negativity toward the show, you're in a way insulting the OP for posting this. It might not be a big deal, but I know I'd hate it if I posted something here and everyone just made me feel like a retard for liking it.
Posted: Sat, 5th Sep 2009, 6:33am

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ahartwig01

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i can get that season 2 was bad compared to season 1 but i thought they got back with season 3 and i also think "save the cheerleader save the world" is the most memorable quote from television even before i got into the show i knew that was heroes. i really like the humanity of this show its not a normal super heroe save the world show it makes it more connectable because ots is normal people discovering incredable abilities
Posted: Sat, 5th Sep 2009, 6:39am

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ahartwig01

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i want examples to all this stuff being said about the "tug of war" in the story after season 1 i mean i dont think it was a great idea going with the whole "virus that could wipe out mankind" idea but i still followed the storyline pretty easily. whats not to get hiro goes back in time pisses someone off and then for the next 400 years that person is trying to destroy the world then a company (primeatech) makes a virus and the bad guy tries to release it pretty simple to follow then you add the hwhole peter lost in ireland thing for suspense for the week to week wait
Posted: Sat, 5th Sep 2009, 7:22am

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Sollthar

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I kind of liked season 1, especially towards the end. Season 2 seemed like a bad "shit, we got another season, let's come up with something new" moment and the little episodes I've actually bothered to watch of the terrible season 3 just seemed "gah... another one... let's...let's.... let's do something else.".

HEROES feels a bit like an insight into the mind of a 9 year old when he plays with his superhero action figures. It seems all grand and great to him, but it just doesn't make much sense. Is George Lucas involved in the writing perhaps?
Posted: Sat, 5th Sep 2009, 8:57pm

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Rockfilmers

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Well, It sounds like I agree with every one (most) people here. Season 1 was good, not great, and season 2 was, to me terrible. After that, I never started watching it again. I don't really watch to much TV any way.
Posted: Sat, 5th Sep 2009, 9:18pm

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jawajohnny

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It pains me to see that a terrible, unintelligent, incomprehensible show like Heroes is still airing, while shows like Firefly and Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles have been canceled. I hate the system. smile

The only shows I'll be watching this year are Fringe and Star Wars: The Clone Wars... shows I know will deliver a high-quality episode almost every week. And then maybe Dollhouse, since Summer Glau has joined the cast...
Posted: Sat, 5th Sep 2009, 11:01pm

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Thrawn

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Ah, finaly! Something I can disagree with everyone about besides politics.

I love heroes. Seriously. I've been addicted since season one, and while they've had their low points (what tv show hasn't?), it still remains one of my favorite shows on telivision. The character of Sylar fascinates me, which kept me going through the rough parts of the season. I've noticed that he's very similar to Dexter Morgan (from the show "Dexter"), just though I'd throw that in there smile

I wouldn't exactly call the show "outside of the box", but it's still quite creative and somehow different than a lot of other shows. I'm excited to see Robert Knepper added to the already excellent cast, as I've enjoyed him in the recently canceled Prison Break.

Haha, Jawajohnny, there's no comparision between the clone wars and heroes. Heroes is higher classed in every way. And that's coming from the biggest Star Wars nerd on the planet.
Posted: Sun, 6th Sep 2009, 12:10am

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doppelganger

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Thrawn wrote:

and while they've had their low points (what tv show hasn't
Arrested Development.
Posted: Sun, 6th Sep 2009, 12:35am

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jawajohnny

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Reborn777 wrote:

Thrawn wrote:

and while they've had their low points (what tv show hasn't
Arrested Development.
Firefly, Terminator, Star Trek...

And no, Clone Wars is definitely superior to Heroes. Season 1 of Heroes was pretty good, but it's declined into silliness since then (I think the addition of too many characters have to do with that). Season 1 of The Clone Wars was kind of hit and miss. It was mostly good, with many flashes of brilliance (usually involving clone-centric episodes), and two or three "bad" episodes mixed in. When it's on, it's really great stuff. Gotta love the upcoming season 2 tagline: "Rise of the Bounty Hunters". It's gonna be kickass.

Fringe was just completely brilliant throughout. In just twenty episodes, it's already surpassed The X-Files in terms of plot/character development. I've never seen a more intense, compelling show. The last five minutes (and the closing shot) of season 1 is one of the greatest scenes I've seen on television. No comparison to the ending of Heroes season 3, which was just silly.

My Top 5 favorite shows of all-time (the first two are kind of inter-changeable):

1. Firefly
2. Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles
3. Star Trek: The Next Generation
4. Star Trek: The Original Series
5. Fringe
Posted: Sun, 6th Sep 2009, 12:35am

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Aculag

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^^^Hahaha are you seriously saying Star Trek hasn't had it's fair share of low points? Not only has it had it's fair share of low episodes, but um... did you just forget that Enterprise even existed? Or Deep Space Nine? Even original series and Next Generation have some truly, truly awful episodes.

I'll give you Arrested Development, though.

Thrawn wrote:

I love heroes. Seriously. I've been addicted since season one, and while they've had their low points (what tv show hasn't?), it still remains one of my favorite shows on telivision.
*shakes fist* It's people like you who are keeping this drivel on the air! wink

Funny story, today I was reading an article in LIFE magazine from September, 1959 that was about the upcoming television season. One line that stood out to me was something like, "Most of the new series' are the usual uninspired, yet thrill-laden fare that are continuously shoveled out to satisfy TV's voracious apetite."

I guess some things never change. smile
Posted: Sun, 6th Sep 2009, 12:42am

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FreshMentos

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Thrawn wrote:

I'm excited to see Robert Knepper added to the already excellent cast, as I've enjoyed him in the recently canceled Prison Break.
Well, I guess you're easily impressed. biggrin

Clare whines the entire time, Peter thinks he's Keanu Reeves, Hiro is a racist stereotype that hurts my ears, and Mika... I'm not even going there. I find the script to be incredibly forced and unrealistic in terms of the dialogue. I could go on but I don't even care. This show has gone the route of Sonic the Hedgehog games. Re-animating the dead doesn't work.
Posted: Sun, 6th Sep 2009, 1:32am

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jawajohnny

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Heh, sorry Aculag... I should've been more clear.

I was mainly referring to the Original Series and the Next Generation. I don't really care for the others, only the occasional DS9 episode. Don't care for Voyager or Enterprise at all. Sure, the first two shows had some bad episodes, but I wouldn't go so far to call them "low points" in a full season of episodes. I'd say a "low point" is a string of bad episodes. TOS, TNG, Firefly, Terminator, are some of the few shows that don't really have a "low point".

EDIT: Heh, heh. Prison Break is another perfect example of a show that should have ended long before it actually did.
Posted: Sun, 6th Sep 2009, 6:35am

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Sollthar

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Firefly had not one boring or low point in it's entire run. Those 15 episodes are easily the best series I've ever seen. Shame it got cancelled while stuff like heroes or lost keep going despite the fact they've lost it all long ago.
Posted: Mon, 7th Sep 2009, 2:32am

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Thrawn

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FreshMentos wrote:



Clare whines the entire time, Peter thinks he's Keanu Reeves, Hiro is a racist stereotype that hurts my ears, and Mika... I'm not even going there. I find the script to be incredibly forced and unrealistic in terms of the dialogue. I could go on but I don't even care. This show has gone the route of Sonic the Hedgehog games. Re-animating the dead doesn't work.
Yeah well right there you're complaining about the characters and dialog, not the acting. wink That said, "excellent" may have been the wrong word, but they're far from bad. What I meant was that they were cast very well for their part. As far as the script, I've thought that they've had some brilliant twists throughout the show.

jawajohnny, I guess it's just a matter of opinion. Believe me, I wanted to like the clone wars, I actually gave the tv show a try after turning the movie off three-fourths of the way through way through, but it was just terrible. The voice actors aren't the original, and hardly sound the same, the show doesn't stick to actual Star Wars canon (which annoys me the most) and, come on, Jar Jar? Jabba's Son? The Clone Wars is a result of George Lucas selling out the Star Wars industry and making a kids show.

Just to add to the many disagreements we've had in this thread, jawa, Prison Break ended perfectly. Four seasons was just the right amount. Not to mention that the last episode's ending was fantastic. smile

Oh and to conclude this post with your list of "perfect" shows

Firefly: Only went on for a few episodes. Hardly counts as a TV show, as it wasn't even given a chance to screw up. Great show though.

Terminator: Can't claim to have seen this, just because it hasn't interested me.

Star Trek: What have you been smoking? wink
Posted: Mon, 7th Sep 2009, 3:05am

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Aculag

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Thrawn wrote:

Firefly: Only went on for a few episodes. Hardly counts as a TV show, as it wasn't even given a chance to screw up. Great show though.
From what I understand, it was cancelled because Fox aired the episodes out of order, and viewers got confused and stopped watching. It got a perfectly fair chance, but Fox, being what it is, flubbed it. If it had been on ABC, or NBC, it would have lasted. But the first series is pretty great, and another one may have spoiled it (*ahem* Serenity.)
Posted: Mon, 7th Sep 2009, 4:32pm

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Staff Only

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jawajohnny wrote:

And then maybe Dollhouse, since Summer Glau has joined the cast...
Whaddayamean; mabye? razz

I watched the first two and a half seasons of Heroes. This is pretty much my idea of the show:

Sollthar wrote:

I kind of liked season 1, especially towards the end. Season 2 seemed like a bad "poo, we got another season, let's come up with something new" moment and the little episodes I've actually bothered to watch of the terrible season 3 just seemed "gah... another one... let's...let's.... let's do something else.".

HEROES feels a bit like an insight into the mind of a 9 year old when he plays with his superhero action figures. It seems all grand and great to him, but it just doesn't make much sense. Is George Lucas involved in the writing perhaps?
Thanks Sollthar. smile


Also regarding Dollhouse the un-aired finale is awesome! It's almost as cool as Serenity was to Firefly. I just don't know how Whedon will make a show that works both for the people that have seen the conclusion and the people who haven't.

Dollhouse Spoiler

Thanks to the Dollhouse technology the whole world ends up like the future in the Terminator franchise. Now that we know that, how do we care about what happens in between? Things are going to hell anyhow, right? This isn't a possible future like in Terminator either. There is no time-traveling technology in Dollhouse that enables them to change it. The episode was made as a conclusion to the series because they thought the show was canceled and would never have been published if they new they had another season. Also this means that the rest of the show might become and endless bit a tying up loose ends with no light at the end of the tunnel (like Lost season 4 and onwards, only this is just season 2). Can it work? All I know is that since the news of Summer Glau getting on board to act out of Whedon's mandatory adolescent girl fantasies; I'm in.

Thrawn wrote:

Firefly: Only went on for a few episodes. Hardly counts as a TV show, as it wasn't even given a chance to screw up. Great show though.
This is the truth.

And as a hard core Firefly fan, I'm glad it was canceled. Really. Serenity is the closest a film has come to being univesally loved by me as much as Star Wars. I know when I was 9-13 I saw the original trilogy literally over a hundred times (kids just don't get tired of stuff, and I saw a Star Wars film about 3 times a week for 4 years), and Serenity which I saw as a 15 year old (when you start having second thoughts about watching even your favorite of films more than 10 times over a period of 3 years) I've seen over 30 times, I can quote every line in the whole thing, I show it to anyone who'll give me two hours of their time, and I still wouldn't mind putting it on right now (if I had the time to spare, but alas; homework). When I started in high school no-one in y class had heard of Serenity/Firefly, now half my class calls themselves Browncoats thanks to, I believe, how genuinely in love I sound when I talk about it. People were lining up to see what I was going on about So my point: no cancellation: no Serenity.

Secondly to what Thrawn said. Because it never got the chance to suck it became a holy grail. The unbeatable TV show. Like Star Wars would have been without The Prequels. Now us Browncoats get to prance around and be all hoity toity about how our show is perfect. All the others jumped the shark at some point.

I'm also looking forward to Fringe, Dexter, Lost.

Last edited Tue, 8th Sep 2009, 6:26am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 7th Sep 2009, 6:42pm

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Aculag

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Okay, thanks to that post, Staff Only is officially FXHome's "Batsh*t Crazy Guy." Congratulations!
Posted: Mon, 7th Sep 2009, 10:34pm

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jawajohnny

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I'll agree that The Clone Wars was a pretty bad movie. Average animation, weak story, and a few terrible characters. However, the actual show, has really grown on me. Most of the episodes are pretty good, with a few outstanding ones (any clone-centric story). Out of the 22 episodes, there are only four "bad" episodes... the ones with Jar Jar. The show is really hit or miss... every bad episode is followed up with a string of great ones. Overall, the show has really improved since the movie. What I like about it is that they actually try to make it accessible to older fans, even though it is first and foremost a kid's show. And by the way, what's wrong with a Star Wars kid's show? Is that not the perfect thing for the youngest generation of fans?

What I'm really excited for is the live-action show, which we've finally got some news about. 2012 by looks of things.

Sollthar wrote:

Firefly had not one boring or low point in it's entire run. Those 15 episodes are easily the best series I've ever seen. Shame it got cancelled while stuff like heroes or lost keep going despite the fact they've lost it all long ago.
Exactly. For networks, it's not about the quality of the show, but the amount of viewers. They really don't care what they're airing, as long as it's getting viewers. Fox, especially is great at this. They air shows like House and Bones, which seem to have "lost it", but still bring in good ratings. So of course they renew it every year. Meanwhile, they aired the best show on television last season, while not marketing, or scheduling it well at all. Of course it doesn't get any viewers, and just like that, it's canceled. What I don't get, is that while Dollhouse had slightly more viewers than Terminator, but when Terminator ended, and Prison Break became its lead-in, Dollhouse lost most of it's viewers. That means it got most of it's viewers as hold-overs from Terminator in the first place. So then they renew that, instead of Terminator. Of course Terminator is going to have a huge, disappointing drop-off in viewers after it's initial series premiere, which was immediately after Monday Night Football, I believe. What were they expecting?

So to sum it up, the TV industry is unpredictable, cruel, and unfair.
Posted: Tue, 8th Sep 2009, 7:07am

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Atom

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There's too much sci-fi on TV already, this talk about obessessing over it kills me even more.

I wish the days of the 'so shitty it's funny' new Bionic Woman were still on so you guys could complain about one uniform thing instead of pointing out the nerdisms in eachothers 'cult' sci-fi shows.

Good god, watch something else. Dollhouse? Is that a damn joke. Has anyone here seen Dollhouse? It's atrocious! Here: Entourage, Mad Men, 30 Rock, The Office. Four shows, watch them and you won't need much else. Let alone all this bitching that, somehow, is still able to relate the much overhyped and underattractive Summer Glau is some way.

There's a rule-of-thumb in television; nothing good ever lasts. Be it the series getting cancelled or going on too long and getting stale (or in Heroes' case terribly awkward and preposterous), none of it can stay 'excellent' like people want for terribly long. Woe is the world, accept it and get over it. Firefly, no doubt, would've gone the same way as Heroes were it on as long as the plumetting series has been, too.
Posted: Tue, 8th Sep 2009, 7:14am

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Staff Only

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jawajohnny wrote:

However, the actual show, has really grown on me.
Same here. I've only seen two episodes, but they were pretty entertaining. There was a trailer for a Jar Jar sentric episode a while back and I taped it because it was so funny.

Trailer voice: "Queen Amidala is trapped on a far away planet. Here there are no Jedi to save her, and no soldiers...only a Gungan! Se Star Wars: The Clone Wars!"

Something about the way the voiceover made it sound like a Jar-Jar Burce Willis Die Hard wannabe was the greatest thing ever just made me laugh.

jawajohnny wrote:

What I'm really excited for is the live-action show, which we've finally got some news about. 2012 by looks of things.
Same here. I really hope George Lucas will bite the bullet and try to give us something that feels like the Orginal Trilogy. If the series turns out to be Prequely it just won't work. I've read somewhere that Lucas plans to make a hundred episodes if it's sucessful. It could be great (Star Trek TNG style) or it could be completley non-imaginative. They really should use this oppurtunity to show off the expanded universe. If every episode is either set on: Corusant, Tatooine, Alderaan or Naboo. That would be a mistake.

jawajohnny wrote:

Exactly. For networks, it's not about the quality of the show, but the amount of viewers. They really don't care what they're airing, as long as it's getting viewers.
Que CSI hating. razz

Atom wrote:

Good god, watch something else. Dollhouse? Is that a damn joke. Has anyone here seen Dollhouse? It's atrocious! Here: Entourage, Mad Men, 30 Rock, The Office. Four shows, watch them and you won't need much else. Let alone all this bitching that, somehow, is still able to relate the much overhyped and underattractive Summer Glau is some way.
Ah, I forgot 30 Rock. I'm also looking forward to that. Seen all seasons and it really is worth all the Emmy's it get's.
Posted: Tue, 8th Sep 2009, 10:10pm

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Klut

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Sollthar wrote:

HEROES feels a bit like an insight into the mind of a 9 year old when he plays with his superhero action figures. It seems all grand and great to him, but it just doesn't make much sense.
Thank you Sollthar for giving me the perfect way to explain it.

Reborn777 wrote:

Thrawn wrote:

and while they've had their low points (what tv show hasn't
Arrested Development.
Yes! I Think I've seen it through 6-8 times, lost count. Now you made me want to start watching again. Best of the best. =D
Posted: Wed, 9th Sep 2009, 7:04pm

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Thrawn

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Atom wrote:

Here: Entourage, Mad Men, 30 Rock, The Office. Four shows, watch them and you won't need much else.
Aw come on Atom, surely you can't assume that everyone wants to just watch comedy shows. I mean, three of those four are favorites of mine (I haven't seen mad men) but I want to be entertained in other ways besides comedy.

Just for fun, I'm just gonna list out the shows (both comedy or not) that I'm looking forward to coming up. No, it doesn't include the Clone Wars wink

Lost
24
The Office (Premiers on my birthdate, which is awesome)
Heroes
Dexter
Lie To Me
Family Guy
How I Met Your Mother
30 Rock (Though the ads for it have been horrible beyond belief)

...and a few more that I know I'm not thinking of.
Posted: Wed, 9th Sep 2009, 10:45pm

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FreshMentos

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The Mighty Boosh.
Posted: Wed, 9th Sep 2009, 10:54pm

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The main shows I'll be watching this year are Fringe, The Office, Caprica and prob 30 Rock (I'm still behind a few epiosdes). Oh and Smallville cuz I gotta see how that that series is gonna end.

Heroes is the worst written show on television and it really blows me away that its still on the air (And getting away with it!). Nothing that they do in that series makes sense. I was a forum member on many heroes sites last season... Most of them don't like me too much because I would always ask questions about the different story holes that were made each episode.

I guarantee that anyone who watches the series, does not aspire to be a writer... A good one, at least...

EDIT - BTW I just picked up Season One of Fringe on Blu Ray yesterday. This is how this series should be watched. It looks amazing.
Posted: Sat, 12th Sep 2009, 1:04am

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ahartwig01

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its been able to stay on the air so something about it must be good and in my opinion, season 4 will be back to season 1 caliber because season 3 fixed a lot of season 2 mistakes. it will get back on its feet this year
Posted: Sat, 12th Sep 2009, 2:19am

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Aculag

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ahartwig01 wrote:

its been able to stay on the air so something about it must be good and in my opinion, season 4 will be back to season 1 caliber because season 3 fixed a lot of season 2 mistakes. it will get back on its feet this year
You're misunderstanding something about television: Just because it's bad, doesn't mean it's going to get taken off the air. It's all about the ratings. More people watching means more advertisements are being seen means more money for the network. That's all it boils down to, and is the reason there are so many cookie-cutter reality shows that get the highest ratings in a given week despite (or even because of) the fact that they are total crap.
Posted: Sat, 12th Sep 2009, 8:15pm

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ahartwig01

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more people watching means more people like it then you think. i dont watch tv expecting greatness or great writing, i want to be entertained for an hour and i want something to look forward to the next week. Heroes does both of those for me
Posted: Sat, 12th Sep 2009, 9:50pm

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FreshMentos

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ahartwig01 wrote:

more people watching means more people like it then you think. i dont watch tv expecting greatness or great writing...
And that's where you differ from the rest of us here. Hence, why I watch Lost and The Office.
Posted: Sat, 12th Sep 2009, 11:05pm

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Aculag

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ahartwig01 wrote:

more people watching means more people like it then you think.
I have no misconceptions about the fact that people like Heroes. If anything, that's exactly the point I made in my post. People like it = people watch it = it stays on the air. It has nothing to do with the show's quality. Pushing Daisies, a show created by Bryan Fuller (who is responsible for arguably the best episodes of Heroes) was an amazing show; Intelligent, creative, whimsical... It had everything I expect from great television, but was cancelled in its second season because people would rather watch American Idol or House, or whatever other mindless schlock it is that people like.

It is because Heroes is mindless fluff that requires no cognitive effort to enjoy that it stays on the air. Your post only reiterates this. Granted, I also watch and enjoy Hell's Kitchen, which is as mindless as it gets, but it's still entertaining. Heroes lost it's entertainment value for me when it stopped making sense. I can only do with so much mindlessness.
Posted: Sat, 12th Sep 2009, 11:16pm

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ben3308

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Props on the Pushing Daisies recognition, I always thought it deserved to be on for longer. Clever concept, and it had some of the most cinematic styling of any show on at the time. Yeah, it was a bit strange, but I think that made it more lasting, more timeless.
Posted: Sun, 13th Sep 2009, 12:02am

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RodyPolis

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The Office is NOT funny.

Last edited Sun, 13th Sep 2009, 7:08pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 13th Sep 2009, 12:02am

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Bryce007

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Entourage makes me want to injure people. so I generally avoid watching it.

Fringe is highly engaging. I definitely enjoy what I've seen of it.
Posted: Sun, 13th Sep 2009, 3:51pm

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jawajohnny

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Aculag wrote:

People like it = people watch it = it stays on the air.
The whole "ratings" system is ridiculously outdated. The problem now, is that you technically don't have to watch a show live... there's Hulu.com, DVR, Tivo, etc. Especially on a night where you have multiple shows you like that are on at the same time. You'd DVR one of them, or catch it online at a later time. You like the show, you're watching it, but you're not contributing to the shows "ratings". Unfortunately, that's what happened to Terminator. It has a huge fanbase, but on Monday, it was up against a few other shows, so they moved it to Friday. Not many people stay home on a Friday night. Especially with Terminator's fanbase... they're the type of people who'd be out catching the latest movie or something. So Terminator had low ratings, but extremely high numbers with DVR and online viewing. Unfortunately, Fox didn't really take that into account, because there isn't really any advertising (commercials) in those two categories. Not to mention it wasn't marketed, or scheduled well at all.

So if a show like Heroes stays on the air, it doesn't necessarily mean it's good. Yes, a lot of people watch it, but you have to look at the circumstances surrounding why they'd be watching at that specific time... like how is the network marketing it, is there some way they're drawing the viewers in, what is it up against, etc...?

What I don't like about Heroes, is that now they really don't know where they're going with the story. They're coming up with it as they go. "What kind of twist can we come up with now?", sort of thing. Whereas Firefly, Terminator, Fringe all have distinct plots. The shows creator's have a clear idea of where the series is heading. For instance, Firefly would have had quality episodes for at least a few seasons (Joss Whedon says Serenity was going to be the second half of Season 2, or something like that). Josh Friedman knew exactly where Terminator was going (although he won't tell us). And of course Fringe has a really tight storyline. Speaking of Fringe, I'll bet anything the ratings will slip now that it's moved to Thursdays. It won't have American Idol as a lead-in. Although Bones had really similar ratings last year, so maybe it's a good thing they're paired together now. It's a really complicated system.
Posted: Sun, 13th Sep 2009, 6:05pm

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spydurhank

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Yes a ton of people watch it... they may think that it's a good show but at the same time there are those of us who "do" like to watch shows with a good storyline and good writing.

Heroes had none of that after the 1st season so no... it is not a good show in my opinion, no matter how many people watch it. Heroes is what happens when you drive by a car crash... there's nothing pretty about it but people still slow down and turn their heads to look.

It was admirable of them to try and keep the show alive after the writers strike and all that but... they made a ton of mistakes and ruined an otherwise "kinda okay" concept. I dunno, maybe they thought that by making the show as random as possible and make it more effects driven, that no one with an ounce of intellect or common sense would notice. I know because I'm one of those people that watched it after season one. And I didn't watch it because of the oh so great storyline either. I watched it for the same reason that a crapload of other people watched it... to see what special effects they would use next.

I'm not saying the show was bad but... I'm not saying that it wasn't the most horrible show either.
Posted: Sun, 13th Sep 2009, 6:58pm

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ahartwig01

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i understand and follow heroes fine, and they have a docent idea of what they are doing for the particular volume they are in, i don't care if volume 4 matches up with volume 2 that's why there called volumes. and they also use volumes in stead of seasons because this year there were 2 volumes in the season, two different story lines, which i liked i think if your as complex as heroes and you stretch it out it could start to get to complicated
Posted: Sun, 13th Sep 2009, 7:11pm

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RodyPolis

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Has anyone here been watching Dark Blue on TNT? I watched the pilot and been hooked since then. Great show.
Posted: Sun, 13th Sep 2009, 7:21pm

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Staff Only

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ahartwig01 wrote:

they have a docent idea of what they are doing for the particular volume they are in, i don't care if volume 4 matches up with volume 2 that's why there called volumes.
That sounds a bit lazy. I'm not trying to insult your show, so by all means disagree, but it's pretty sad when things like Caitlin happen, where a character is taken into the future, left there, then the future is changed erasing her from existence. Furthermore when the writers were asked about this I read they were like: "Yeah...um...that's a bit of a mess...hope I don't have to clean that up, hehe" *Blushes*. That's just weak. And that was just the first of many. Think of Maya and Alejandro. They were boring, annoying and I didn't care about them. What was their relevance to the overall plot? None. We were expected to simply enjoy their brief, useless presence. In season 3 you get a guy who can create vortexes. That was interesting, wonder what will become of him? Spoiler: He kills himself after two episodes. No wonder I stopped watching. It was increasingly becoming soap operaish. I can say upfront that I'm a fan of Lost, and however convoluted you might claim it is, if you put every piece together, there are remarkably few inconsistencies for such a long running, all over the place, narrative. The Heroes writers seem to have bitten off a lot more than they can chew. There's no going back. Suffice to say I gave up on Heroes shortly after season 3 (which Tim Kring promised would be better) failed completley to be coherent.

Just my opinion.
Posted: Sun, 13th Sep 2009, 9:16pm

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spydurhank

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Staff Only wrote:

hartwig 01 wrote:

they have a docent idea of what they are doing for the particular volume they are in, i don't care if volume 4 matches up with volume 2 that's why there called volumes.
That sounds a bit lazy.
I agree with Staff Only, kinda lazy.

It doesn't sound like you care about the storyline as much as saying that you like the show... but how can you like one without the other? How can you honestly say that you like a show so much but you don't care about the bad writing, the bad story telling, all of the obvious inconsistencies? That doesn't make sense to me at all.
This may or may not be why most of us don't care for the show... because we care about plots, coherent, sensible, creative writing and storytelling. That's just me though and I can't speak for anyone else.

Maybe that's why they're calling season 4... Redemption.
That's because they need to redeem seasons 2 and 3.
Posted: Sun, 13th Sep 2009, 9:47pm

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Thrawn

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FreshMentos wrote:

ahartwig01 wrote:

more people watching means more people like it then you think. i dont watch tv expecting greatness or great writing...
And that's where you differ from the rest of us here. Hence, why I watch Lost and The Office.
slowclap
Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2009, 1:25am

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TheOutlawAmbulance

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FreshMentos wrote:

ahartwig01 wrote:

more people watching means more people like it then you think. i dont watch tv expecting greatness or great writing...
And that's where you differ from the rest of us here. Hence, why I watch Lost and The Office.
The Office is funny except I watch the US version. Also you watch The Mighty Boosh? Huh...interesting.
Also I didn't know Family Guys coming back. Yaaaahhhh!!!!! biggrin
Which office are you talking about? (obvilously the UK one right?)
Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2009, 1:31am

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FreshMentos

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Storm Grenade wrote:

Which office are you talking about? (obvilously the UK one right?)
I've never seen a full episode of the British version. All of my friends that have seen it have told me it's superior though. I've only seen about 5 episodes of The Mighty Boosh, but I think it's brilliant.
Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2009, 2:16am

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ahartwig01

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i think the writing is good but i can see some inconsistencies nut i think season 2 plot line with Caitlin was very stupid ill agree on that one they just kind of left her there. I liked the addition of elle, and maya's story i thought was very interesting because of that power, and the contrast to sylar's character who kills because of a hunger, she kills because of her anger/fear they are both to an extent controlled by the abilities they have. i love the black eyes. i also loved the ending of season 2, where sylar gets all of his powers back. which forced me to watch seasson 3 which i liked a lot. I was unsure if i would stay with it because of the season two slip but the way season 3 opened just re hooked me the way season 1 did, i completely dont understand the dislike of season 3 but completely understand why people would stop watching after 2
Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2009, 3:53am

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Aculag

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ahartwig01 wrote:

...
So... what did you think of Sylar's non-stop flip-flopping in season 3? "Oh, you might be my mommy? Okay I'll do whatever you say!!!" "Oh, you're not my mommy? I WANT TO KILL EVERYONE" "You might be my daddy? Okay, I'll do whatever you say!!!" and so on. Surely you must agree that the writers clearly had no idea of where to take the character at that point? To me, the character of Sylar was ruined with the Season one finale where Hiro didn't actually kill him, and everything they went through was for absolutely nothing.
Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2009, 10:39am

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Simon K Jones

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Rating: +1

Staff Only wrote:

Now that we know that, how do we care about what happens in between? Things are going to hell anyhow, right? This isn't a possible future like in Terminator either. There is no time-traveling technology in Dollhouse that enables them to change it.
In storytelling, quite often the destination is far less important than the journey.

Take Apollo 13, or even something like Lord of the Rings. You know they're going to be fine, or that the Ring will be destroyed. The meat is in finding out how they get there, and what happens to the characters along the way.

Have you ever watched Babylon 5? That's a masterclass in using knowledge of the end to enhance the main narrative. Clever writing.

Secondly to what Thrawn said. Because it never got the chance to suck it became a holy grail. The unbeatable TV show.
That theory only works if you ignore The Wire.

jawajohnny wrote:

What I don't get, is that while Dollhouse had slightly more viewers than Terminator, but when Terminator ended, and Prison Break became its lead-in, Dollhouse lost most of it's viewers. That means it got most of it's viewers as hold-overs from Terminator in the first place. So then they renew that, instead of Terminator.
It's actually a fairly simple answer to that one: Dollhouse is very cheap (or, at least, cheaper) to produce compared to Terminator. That's all there is to it.

Have a read of this for a more in-depth analysis that is rather interesting:

http://nickctv.wordpress.com/2009/05/23/dollhouse-season-2-or-why-fox-did-it/

Oh, and Atom: We get it, you don't really like sci-fi much. You've said it several times in different topics. That's fine. But don't try to convince the rest of us not to like it either; that's just silly.
Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2009, 11:43am

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Staff Only

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Tarn wrote:

Staff Only wrote:

Now that we know that, how do we care about what happens in between? Things are going to hell anyhow, right? This isn't a possible future like in Terminator either. There is no time-traveling technology in Dollhouse that enables them to change it.
In storytelling, quite often the destination is far less important than the journey.

Take Apollo 13, or even something like Lord of the Rings. You know they're going to be fine, or that the Ring will be destroyed. The meat is in finding out how they get there, and what happens to the characters along the way.
This is true of course. The problem with Dollhouse is that the unaired finale shows you the journey in quick sucession. It would be like showing a cut down version of The Prequels to show how Vader became Vader, then showing us the whole thing. It would be pretty hard to make it interesting. They will have to make it a "God is in the detail" thing. The biggest problem is that now they are not free anymore. Either they have to forget the unared finale or the future show will be like adapting source material up until that point in the Dollhouse history where they catch up with the finale. They unintentionally shakeled themselves to a direction and a series of important events. Whedon has said if this ever becomes a problem because they make it to season 3 they might drop faithfulness to the unared finale in favour of better ideas.

Tarn wrote:

Have you ever watched Babylon 5? That's a masterclass in using knowledge of the end to enhance the main narrative. Clever writing
No, unfortunatley not. My good friend (you may know him here as Tommy Gundersen) has tried to get me to watch it, but I just haven't found the time to watch an entire show. Mabye next summer, depending on how things turn out.

Tarn wrote:

Have a read of this for a more in-depth analysis that is rather interesting:

http://nickctv.wordpress.com/2009/05/23/dollhouse-season-2-or-why-fox-did-it/
Excellent link (+1). That guy writes well.
Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2009, 4:58pm

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RodyPolis

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Well I haven't been watching Dollhouse, but if the finale was unaired, that should mean that it doesn't count right? and how did you see the finale anyways?
Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2009, 5:26pm

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Thrawn

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Aculag wrote:

ahartwig01 wrote:

...
So... what did you think of Sylar's non-stop flip-flopping in season 3? "Oh, you might be my mommy? Okay I'll do whatever you say!!!" "Oh, you're not my mommy? I WANT TO KILL EVERYONE" "You might be my daddy? Okay, I'll do whatever you say!!!" and so on. Surely you must agree that the writers clearly had no idea of where to take the character at that point? To me, the character of Sylar was ruined with the Season one finale where Hiro didn't actually kill him, and everything they went through was for absolutely nothing.
Hey, the whole Sylar plot line worked for me. I personally loved the fact that he's trying to search for good in himself, and only finding evil. Sure, his part of the story was chaos, but I thought that really fit the character. He was having an identity crisis. I mean, if he had it all figured out, it wouldn't be much of a plot.

One thing that I thought was weak about the writing, however, was them switching Peter's powers around. He obviously was too powerful for the show to be interesting in the first season, so they just dummed his powers down a little without even properly introducing doing so. Other than that, the writing (plot-wise) has been pretty decent. Not flawless, but decent.
Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2009, 6:01pm

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RodyPolis wrote:

Well I haven't been watching Dollhouse, but if the finale was unaired, that should mean that it doesn't count right? and how did you see the finale anyways?
When Whedon and Co. thought Dollhouse was doomed they quickly (and cheaply) shot an ending to the show (which strangely turned out to be one of the best episodes, certainly better than the extremely disappointingly underwhelming season finale) for the DVD release just for the sake of closure (so we don't get another Serenity situation because God knows Joss doesn't need to spend another 3, stressful, years of his life fighting to get the chance to conclude Dollhouse), after the DVD came out Dollhouse was renewed (for specifics: see Tarn's post), and then they were like "Damn, but we gave away the whole story arc on DVD two months ago."

That's basically it.
Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2009, 8:26pm

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ahartwig01

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i agree i think sylar searching for himself was great. His flip flopping also strengthened the angela character by making her more dislikable. I had no problem with the sylar storyline in season 3, the only part i didnt like was that luke kid that was there for 4 episodes or so he got annoying after a while
Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2009, 8:56pm

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jawajohnny

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I still don't quite understand that unaired finale of Dollhouse. Apparently, it's its own entity, and the second season won't have much to do with it. There will be references to it, but no real continuity. Am I right. As much as I love Whedon for Firefly, I don't think Dollhouse is good at all. Fox made the complete wrong choice to renew it instead of Terminator. Terminator was a better show (as in one of the greatest shows ever!), and it technically had better ratings. wall
Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2009, 9:02pm

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spydurhank

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jawajohnny wrote:

I still don't quite understand that unaired finale of Dollhouse. Apparently, it's its own entity, and the second season won't have much to do with it. There will be references to it, but no real continuity. Am I right. As much as I love Whedon for Firefly, I don't think Dollhouse is good at all. Fox made the complete wrong choice to renew it instead of Terminator. Terminator was a better show (as in one of the greatest shows ever!), and it technically had better ratings. wall
I agree, I watched both shows but I liked Terminator alot more than Dollhouse. Not tha there was anything wrong with Dollhouse... I just think that Terminator was better in every way. They went with the show tha was cheaper to make... so they're getting what they paid for.
Posted: Mon, 14th Sep 2009, 9:12pm

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jawajohnny

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Oh yeah, Terminator was funded by WB, while Dollhouse was funded by Fox itself. So if it's cheaper to make, they're getting more for their money. I guess that's why they kept it, even though it's crap. I really wish there's a way we can get a proper conclusion to Terminator. They probably could have done it in just 13 episodes, or even a movie.
Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2009, 12:12am

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RodyPolis

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Ya Terminator was an awesome show. Loved everything about it. I'm still pissed it got canceled, but I'm glad that the season finale could also be taken as a series finale.

John went to the future and met his dad. Sarah stayed in the past to still fight the war(but obviously failed). And we got to see the human Cameron, which means all these fantasies John had about Robot Cameron can come true. Pretty good way to conclude the show, but obviously not the final ending. I'm sure they had all kind of cool stuff planned out.
Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2009, 1:28am

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ahartwig01

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as much disapointment i fell that no one hardly likes heroes here, i love the fact that my topic is getting this much discussion
Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2009, 1:47am

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Atom

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I can't believe I even need to mention this but Terminator, among a plethora of reasons, never would have or could have reached 'excellent' status because of three words:

Brian Austin Green.
Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2009, 2:19am

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RodyPolis

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What exactly did he do wrong in it? I haven't seen an episode since the finale, but I don't remember thinking anything bad about him. I think you just hate him cause he is/was dating Megan Fox smile
Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2009, 2:36am

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Aculag

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RodyPolis wrote:

I think you just hate him cause he is/was dating Megan Fox smile
Also because he's a terrible 90's soap actor.
Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2009, 5:47am

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spydurhank

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Aculag wrote:

RodyPolis wrote:

I think you just hate him cause he is/was dating Megan Fox smile
Also because he's a terrible 90's soap actor.
I agree with the 90's bit but he actually didn't do too bad in Terminator playing Kyles brother. Chastise me if you will... but the show was still better than Dollhouse even though he was in Terminator.
Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2009, 5:50am

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Atom

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Well, it's not really hard to be better than shitt.
Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2009, 5:54am

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spydurhank

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Atom wrote:

Well, it's not really hard to be better than shitt.
HA,ha,ha! That's true dude! I never cared much for the guy myself but it's still better than Dollhouse no matter how much you may hate him.

Wait... unless you mean Dollhouse was Shitt!? Then it's the same difference. Ha!
Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2009, 7:02am

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Atom

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Do I even need to make the distinction? I mean, have you seen an episode of Dollhouse? It's cringe-inducingly bad.
Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2009, 8:06am

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Simon K Jones

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I thought Brian Austin Green was fine in Terminator. He wasn't any better or worse than the rest of the cast (With the exception of Glau and the black FBI guy). He was certainly better than Shirley Manson as the T-1000-ette. The main reason I stopped watching halfway through season 2 was due to her performance.

As for Dollhouse...the first half of the season is indeed utter pap. The second half, however, we good. Nothing special, but solid entertainment. Given Whedon's CV I'm happy to see it get a 2nd season. Both Angel And Buffy got considerably better in their 2nd seasons. Firefly being so utterly awesome straight out the gate was definitely an anomaly.

I actually wrote a little review of Dollhouse season 1 including a sort-of episode guide as to which episodes to watch and which to skip:

http://tarnimus.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/dollhouse-season-1/
Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2009, 2:54pm

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Aculag wrote:

RodyPolis wrote:

I think you just hate him cause he is/was dating Megan Fox smile
Also because he's a terrible 90's soap actor.
If I'd seen him in the soap in question before seeing Terminator I might have agreed out of bias, but never having heard the name before I thought he delivered a completley run-of-the-mill okay performance. Nothing amazing, nothing amazingly bad. Then again the best thing Terminator had going for it was the backdrop of the Terminator universe. To me it never seemed like a stellar show. It was just okay at times, pretty darn good other times. When it comes to Dollhouse it's like Terminator upside down. The universe is like a big roadblock for greatness, and everyone involved seems to be trying their utmost to turn this impossibly uninviting universe into something watchable. Around halfway in season 1 it seemed like some of the better ideas Whedon and co. had for the Dollhouse were used. Spy in the House of Love and Briar Rose were really good episodes, but if you put the number of good episodes next to the number of bad, Dollhouse falls short. However Whedon is a good writer, so I'll still be giving season 2 a chance...hang on: did Brian Green date Megan Fox? Did I mention his acting sucks?
Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2009, 8:00pm

Post 74 of 76

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

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Everyone in Terminator is excellent, except for Shirley Manson. She's definitely the weakest, but I find her character really intriguing. Brian Austin Green is great, but I haven't seen him in anything else. I've heard a lot of people say his performance as Derek Reese was the strongpoint of the series.

Tarn wrote:

The main reason I stopped watching halfway through season 2 was due to her performance.
You NEED to watch that second half. NOW. Just trust me on this one.smile

I'd say there are a few "meh" episodes right in the middle of the season, but the second half is mind-blowingly awesome. I mean really outstanding awesome. The plot really kicks it into gear. All the minor characters that you think aren't important, turn out to be indeed VERY important, John Connor becomes John Connor, etc. Everything starts to happen. The last few episodes are by far the greatest television episodes I have ever seen. And I've seen a lot of great TV. It's really a great show, that should never have been canceled. Season 3 would have been amazing.

For anyone who doesn't think my opinion is valid because I like The Clone Wars... Terminator makes The Clone Wars look like total crap. Actually, now that I think about it, it makes most shows look like total crap...
Posted: Tue, 15th Sep 2009, 9:54pm

Post 75 of 76

RodyPolis

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Ya, you have to watch the second half, or all the episodes you watched were for nothing.
Posted: Thu, 17th Sep 2009, 1:26am

Post 76 of 76

ahartwig01

Force: 0 | Joined: 19th Jun 2009 | Posts: 40

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did anyone else notice that in Heroes, Zachary Quinto (sylar) got a lot better acting after he came back from Star Trek?