You are viewing an archive of the old fxhome.com forums. The community has since moved to hitfilm.com.

Whos loving Modern Warfare 2!?

Page 1 of 2: 1, 2 | Next

Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 3:46am

Post 1 of 231

doppelganger

Force: 134 | Joined: 16th May 2006 | Posts: 1157

MacOS User

Member

Picked it up after school today and just now stopped playing.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 4:03am

Post 2 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I liked the first one, but never got into the multiplayer, which is apparently the only worthwhile thing in the new one. I hear the single player campaign is shorter than the first one, which seems ridiculous.

What do you like so much about it? Is it mostly good for Multiplayer, or is the campaign worth it?

Last edited Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 4:28am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 4:17am

Post 3 of 231

FreshMentos

Force: 1667 | Joined: 10th Jun 2006 | Posts: 1141

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

I'd get it if I had the money... sad
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 4:37am

Post 4 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

So far the campaign is of higher quality than the first one, which means it's mind-blowing. I'm about 3 or 4 hours in. It's definitely a must play although I don't think it's long enough to warrant buying for the single player alone.

As for the multi, it's basically a more balanced, complete and perfected version of the original. If you didn't like the original much, I don't think this would change your mind.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 6:10am

Post 5 of 231

ChromeHeart

Force: 1950 | Joined: 30th Jan 2006 | Posts: 117

VisionLab User VideoWrap User

Gold Member

So tempted to buy it... but school is taking over my life at the moment. This game is another reason I'm looking soooo forward to Winter break.

To the people who have played it: Is it much better than the first?
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 6:17am

Post 6 of 231

Thrawn

Force: 1995 | Joined: 11th Aug 2006 | Posts: 1962

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I'm so getting this tomorrow. One of my co-workers just went at bought it on lunch break, and I got a chance to check out the packaging. Exciting? I think so. But yes, I'm buying this.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 6:54am

Post 7 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

AlexanderX - Much better than the first, believe it or not. I just finished the campaign: frickin unbelievable.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 7:09am

Post 8 of 231

b4uask30male

Force: 5619 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 3497

Windows User

Gold Member

Too many high bits in it sad

I've found that while running around on the ground someone from 3 stories up will shoot you sad makes it harder to get 7 or more kills in a row.

I love the way it finds a new host instead of it ending game.

I'll keep playing it but at this point I prefer the 1st.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 8:19am

Post 9 of 231

Redhawksrymmer

Force: 18442 | Joined: 19th Aug 2002 | Posts: 2620

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

A bit dissapointed to hear the single player campaign being shorter - the co-op, "Spec Ops" missions look quite fun though - definitely interested in getting it eventually, but I suppose I'll wait around for christmas. Only question remains which platform to get it on - Windows on Boot Camp is a sure alternative, but then again I think it might prove much more fun to pick it up for the 360.... haven't really had an issue with console FPSs previously, and MW2 looks to be pretty much originally made for consoles and then ported to PC.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 12:50pm

Post 10 of 231

doppelganger

Force: 134 | Joined: 16th May 2006 | Posts: 1157

MacOS User

Member

Spec Ops is pretty cool, all the missions are pretty short ranging from 20 minutes to 30 seconds... but most of them are really really cool. There are a few that are just stupid though.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 1:14pm

Post 11 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

I don't mind a short single player experience, if it's good quality. That's why I enjoyed the first MW - because it was short. Any longer and it would have got tedious.

However, I'm not buying it at Ludicrous Prices. Once it comes down to the price of a special edition movie DVD I might consider it.

Did you guys all find deals or are you just seriously loaded? smile
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 3:57pm

Post 12 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Personally, I got it from Walmart where it was 10$ cheaper, plus I used a friend's 10% employee rebate.

But yeah, Tarn, I'm sure than when you do eventually play it, you will love it. Ridiculously cinematic.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 3:59pm

Post 13 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Mm, I'm mostly curious about That Sequence. It sounds pretty awful, but I need to play it form myself before commenting.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 4:22pm

Post 14 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

That sequence... are you referring to the controversy-brewing mission or am I missing something?
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 4:26pm

Post 15 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Yeah. I feel the need to write about it on Potential Gamer. Having such a tabloid-baiting scene in The Biggest Game Of All Time is potentially really bad news for the industry.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 4:31pm

Post 16 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Aye, it is indeed the most controversial piece of gaming ever created, and will probably remain so for a long time. On the other hand, it is one of the most morally poignant and emotionally intense moments I've ever seen in a game, and it's a really interesting look (and sort of self-analysis) at peer pressure. Plus, it's incredibly well made and basically perfect, although fairly, uh, vicious.

I think it'll be interesting to see how culture has evolved regarding video game violence. I'm a bit hopeful that this won't be such a huge deal as it would've been a few years ago.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 4:32pm

Post 17 of 231

b4uask30male

Force: 5619 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 3497

Windows User

Gold Member

There's a huge bug in it, lots of people (now inc myself) have trouble connecting, it hangs on fetching info.
They have just released an update 1.2 to fix but it's not worked. sad

Just a heads up.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 4:33pm

Post 18 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Interesting, that's actually the first positive word I've heard on it. Other people and journalists whose opinion I respect have said it's fairly reprehensible and poorly handled, especially in the context of such a silly game.

As I say, I want to play it myself so I can make my own mind up! The way you describe it is how I'd hoped it would come across.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 4:36pm

Post 19 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Yeah, I dunno, I tend to look for the good side in everything. I mean, if you think it can offend you, then it will. It absolutely does everything it can to shock you, short of (highlight to read) letting you shoot children or the elderly. I mean, you've got people crawling for their lives and panicked screams and everything. So in that sense I can certainly understand how someone would say it is poorly handled. I think it's just being unabashedly realistic and direct. A dumbed-down version of this would not have worked.

Maybe I'm being insensitive, but I think that in the context of a video game (or movie, or book, etc.), this sort of stuff is actually positive. It makes you think. Sure, it could inspire someone to try something like that himself, but then the same could be said of the Bible.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 4:47pm

Post 20 of 231

TheOutlawAmbulance

Force: 931 | Joined: 16th Dec 2008 | Posts: 938

EffectsLab Pro User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

I want it so bad but I need to buy my PS3 before then! sad Money...money...
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 5:04pm

Post 21 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Mm, I'm not easily offended at all. It's all about context, though.

Some of the horrific stuff Spielberg put in Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's List works fine in those films. It's deeply unpleasant, but it makes sense and is appropriate.

If he'd put the extermination sequence from Schindler or the slow death-by-knife from SPR into, say, Indiana Jones, though, it would be really inappropriate.

Given that the Modern Warfare series (judging from the first one) is a silly, over the top, James Bond/Michael Bay/Tom Clancy style romp, I'm worried that it's not going to work for me. The rest of the game falls into the 'Indiana Jones' category, so a single 'Saving Private Ryan' moment strikes me as misjudged.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 5:20pm

Post 22 of 231

Mellifluous

Force: 5604 | Joined: 6th Oct 2002 | Posts: 3782

EffectsLab Pro User Windows User

Gold Member

I won't buy MW2 but I've seen that sequence and have no problem with it. It invites tabloid headlines and the developers would have been aware of that, but I doubt they created the level primarily for that reason.

It's an interesting gameplay concept and is obviously designed to make the gamer think, see war and terrorism from a different perspective and be reminded of their own humanity/moral compass. It's a self-aware nod to the idea of video games causing violence, a juxtaposition of the usual gaming warfare where you're pulling the trigger in the name of the supposed "good" guys. The level's designed to make you feel uncomfortable, but also maybe make you question why you feel uncomfortable in that level but not the others.

Since I haven't played it, I don't know but it would be interesting to see what happened if you played through the sequence but refused to shoot, or shot the terrorists.

Edit: whether it's out of place is another question...maybe we'll see a game where 50% of the game is played as terrorists launching an attack in Washington, 50% as counter-terrorists - Counterstrike: Modern Battlefield, anyone?
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 6:14pm

Post 23 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Yeah, although CoD is very much a Michael Bay-type video game, this one seems to try very hard at getting ethical and political points across. There's a lot of emphasis on "War is written by the victors" as well as on the terrorism thing Mel mentioned, and another point on what war is like for the countries it takes place in, and all of that contributes to the ending having a huge amount of weight behind it. I don't want to spoil what happens, but it's bloody engaging considering what's at stake.

But it's definitely the most SPR-ish part of the game, it's just that doing it any other way, like a cut-scene for example, would have resulted in an inferior experience.
Posted: Wed, 11th Nov 2009, 10:07pm

Post 24 of 231

Mantra

Force: 1888 | Joined: 25th Nov 2002 | Posts: 551

EffectsLab Lite User MacOS User

Gold Member

Tarn wrote:

I don't mind a short single player experience, if it's good quality. That's why I enjoyed the first MW - because it was short. Any longer and it would have got tedious.

However, I'm not buying it at Ludicrous Prices. Once it comes down to the price of a special edition movie DVD I might consider it.

Did you guys all find deals or are you just seriously loaded? smile
Sainsbury's are selling it at £26 flat which is pretty interesting.
I've heard that they are doing this with 100 units per day per store, but none the less it's an aggressive marketing ploy.
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 12:03am

Post 25 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Can someone please describe this "controversial" scene for me, as I will not be buying this for at least a year? If I had to guess, it's something involving the favelas in Brazil? If you don't want to spoil it in the thread, PM me.

Edit: nevermind, just noticed Pooky's post. Interesting...
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 12:18am

Post 26 of 231

Bryce007

Force: 1910 | Joined: 5th Apr 2003 | Posts: 2609

VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

If you want to see someone actually play through this mission:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrqA0Wz45fM


It's pretty rough. I can't say I've seen something in a video game that let's someone do something *that* intense in a realistic manner.
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 1:34am

Post 27 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Okay, yeah. That's not at all what I expected. That is pretty messed up for a video game. Definitely controversy bait.

On the other hand, those graphics look amazing.
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 1:39am

Post 28 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

I'm pretty surprised we haven't really heard anything about said controversy yet, actually...
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 2:18am

Post 29 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Someone get Joe Lieberman on the line!
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 4:23am

Post 30 of 231

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Whoa, that's tough to stomach. I wonder what happens if you just try and get rid of all the terrorists the moment the elevator stopped.
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 4:39am

Post 31 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Atom wrote:

Whoa, that's tough to stomach. I wonder what happens if you just try and get rid of all the terrorists the moment the elevator stopped.
MISSION FAILED

Retry? y/n
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 11:09am

Post 32 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

I think what would have made it even more interesting is if the game had a section with you playing a civilian in the same situation, completely unarmed and helpless.

The lack of controversy so far is a bit strange. It's as if the mainstream press can only snipe at the gaming industry by making stuff up, like the silly Mass Effect sex stuff, so when games do something that is genuinely controversial, they're not quite sure what to do.

It's a shame I won't get to play this for a while, but such is life when you have the joys of Dragon Age and Uncharted 1 & 2 to savour.
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 11:57am

Post 33 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

While the scene is controversial for it's topic and setting, the (American, at least) media is far more concerned with censoring sex, than violence. The Hot Coffee mod for GTA: San Andreas stirred way more controversy than the fact that you play an ex-con who murders hundreds of innocent people before, during, and after a trip to the gym, or to get fast food.

I have a feeling that Heavy Rain for the PS3 will be endlessly scrutinized for being so blatantly sexual, but the scene in MW2 could conceivably get a "pass". Violence is totally fine, even encoraged. But SEX? Harmful! Shameful! Sinful! But that's the US of A for ya! *waves flag* wink
Or maybe I'm wrong, and the game will be banned! We'll find out.
Also, Dragon Age is awesome.

Last edited Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 12:09pm; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 12:00pm

Post 34 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Clearly ending life is preferable to starting life (or having a bit of fun). Surely you know this, Aculag?


Infinity Ward should probably have had two options on that particular level, then: be a violent terrorist, or a sexy terrorist.
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 12:02pm

Post 35 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Tarn wrote:

Yeah. I feel the need to write about it on Potential Gamer. Having such a tabloid-baiting scene in The Biggest Game Of All Time is potentially really bad news for the industry.
I don't know about that. There is intelligent arguments amongst the idiocy, perhaps the uproar will spur parents paying attention to what they are buying their children illegally.

Tarn - playing the scene as an unarmed civilian wouldn't have worked. You'll understand why when you get the time to play it. If it wasn't intrinsic for your character to participate, I'd suggest that being a soldier from CoD4 returning from the war being caught up in the massacre would have more impact than playing as a civilian. Again, I can't elaborate why.

-Matt

Last edited Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 12:05pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 12:03pm

Post 36 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Just as long as there is a digital ass or nipples somewhere, they're guaranteed to cause a fuss.
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 6:18pm

Post 37 of 231

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

I've been loving this game. The multiplayer shines a ridiculous amount. There's an endless amount of customization (perks, add-ons, kill-streaks, death-streaks). I played the 3rd person shooting mode for a good portion of yesterday and was hooked. It really feels like having 2 multiplayer games in one when you have a FPS and a TPS.

The single, while good, is short but meh, they know this games hype comes from the multilayer so it's obvious why they put a gazillion more hours into it. I didn't think it'd be so good but I was wrong.

As it stands, Uncharted 2 has the best linear single player campaign this gen but MW2 has the most robust (and dare I say best) multiplayer this gen.
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 10:19pm

Post 38 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Ah, here we go, some controversy: http://www.joystiq.com/2009/11/12/fox-and-friends-gets-fair-and-balanced-with-modern-warfare-2-dis/

It's FOX, so obviously it's just sensationalist crap, but it's a start.
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 10:34pm

Post 39 of 231

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Heh, very good arguments from the slashgamer guy there...

"uhm yeah well you're uhm a CIA agent well and uhm CIA agent and uhm it specifically says you're a CIA agent and uhm yeah well uhm it's not real!"

Hehe. Making a good name for educated gamers... wink
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 10:44pm

Post 40 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

"It lets your 8-year-old child become a terrorist and kill people."

Right. If you're a sh*tty parent, and don't care what your 8-year-old child is exposed to, as long as it isn't bothering you. This is why game ratings exist, idiots...
Posted: Thu, 12th Nov 2009, 11:06pm

Post 41 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Yeah, both guys were a caricature of their own "side": the gamer guy had trouble expressing himself and couldn't find a proper reason to explain why the game is ok, and the anti-gamer guy just spewed out the same disproved clichés that have existed since the invention of entertainment.
Posted: Fri, 13th Nov 2009, 1:05am

Post 42 of 231

Garrison

Force: 5404 | Joined: 9th Mar 2006 | Posts: 1530

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

"Fair, balanced.... Retarded."
Posted: Fri, 13th Nov 2009, 7:24pm

Post 43 of 231

No Respite Productions

Force: 985 | Joined: 4th Dec 2006 | Posts: 482

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

There's not been too much controversy on this in the UK apart from Labour MP cooking up trouble (which makes a nice change from cooking up his expenses claims).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8342589.stm

Mind you that is pretty much it.

I bought this on launch day from Sainsbury's which began a very aggressive chain of price dropping. Apparently it was only announced the day before that they'd be selling copies for £26, a harsh 20 quid from most other places. They confirmed that they were selling the game as a loss leader, hoping that they'd recoup the money through additional purchases made in store ("well, whilst I'm here...").

High Street retailers (particularly GAME and HMV) were not impressed with this. According to a friend who went to the midnight launch at Game, the staff were surprised at seeing so few people until they were clued in that most people would be getting a good nights sleep and nearly 30 quid off the next day smile

I'm actually completely glad that I only payed £26 for this as if I'd have paid full price I'd have gone nuts. The fact is this is not a fully developed sequel and feels more like Modern Warfare 1.5. The single player campaign is loosely strung together and all over the place, as well as being short.

The multiplayer game is good and as addictive as ever, but it's not radically different from MW1, a few extra perks, options and features and that is pretty much it. Once you've played through a good few hours you've seen pretty much all of the differences you are going to see, and then you'll be settling down to levelling up all over again. Also the multiplayer feels more arcadey, there's a heavier emphasis on run and gun action, the maps don't feel as tactically solid as they did the first time around.

Finally, *that* level in the single player... it does sort of work, it fits in with the overall plotline but it is very disturbing and the first time I've considered a video game potentially going "too-far". I went on a small moanathon to a friend who told me to "man up" and actually said that he tried (spoilers ahead) playing it through without shooting the civvies and was not penalised (although you will have to shoot the police in order to progress).

All in all, not exactly worth the hype given it leans so reliantly on the first game. Worth getting but I'm pretty disgusted with the attempted price gouging that Activision/Inifinity Ward have tried to get away with on the RRP, as a result I'm extremely chuffed that Sainsbury's did what they did.
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 4:07am

Post 44 of 231

DVStudio

Force: 4983 | Joined: 22nd Nov 2007 | Posts: 1845

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User PhotoKey 4 User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Absoultely amazing,. Haven't been on FXHome in a while, so I hust saw this thread, but I'm enjoying it. The new maps are insane=- for XBL they are enormous comapred to the first one. Very cool. And not to mention the guns are just awesome! I especially like the Scar and the G18 as my secondary. Oh, and the bling (multiple attachments is a nice touch).

And captain price is back!!

Only real complaint is that the care packages is a stupid name. But that AC-130 frikin' pwns! Placed #1 every single time on live so far in freeforall matches.

About to finish the game on veteran (all levels). Insane. Don't want to spoil it for anyone though....

The controversy on some of the levels (cough the airport one... cough) was slightly suprising to me, because, yes it is very violent, but they offer a warnign message,give you the option to skip the level ad all, etc. Plus you are playing as an undercover CIA agent, so its not that bad. And the people on that level aren't as relaistic as the others (most likely on purpose). Plus it is rated M so anyone who gives it to a little kid unsupervised has a problem... Saw that on F&F the other morning, Hillarious. The older guy has probably never picked up an Xbox 360 contrioller in his life and the other guy may not have passed highschool English or he was just nervous. Nice.

Last edited Wed, 18th Nov 2009, 12:14am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 4:52am

Post 45 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

DVStudio wrote:

Plus you are playing as an undercover CIA agent, so its not that bad.
How is this "not that bad"? If anything, that's even worse. "If it's Russian terrorists, that's bad. But if it's an American, who's just undercover, it's fine." rolleyes

Still, I didn't know they give you an option to skip the level... That's kinda weird, actually.
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 5:25am

Post 46 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

There's a "content filter" mode that you can turn on at the beginning of the game. Basically, it censors a bunch of stuff, including that mission.
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 7:41am

Post 47 of 231

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Yeah, it's literally like the first thing you see when booting the game up for the first time.
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 9:33am

Post 48 of 231

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Plus you are playing as an undercover CIA agent, so its not that bad.
Seeing the eloquent slashgamer guy argued the same thing - can someone explain me how being an undercover CIA agent makes the whole thing better? I seriously don't understand it. unsure
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 1:14pm

Post 49 of 231

DVStudio

Force: 4983 | Joined: 22nd Nov 2007 | Posts: 1845

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User PhotoKey 4 User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Sollthar wrote:

Plus you are playing as an undercover CIA agent, so its not that bad.
Seeing the eloquent slashgamer guy argued the same thing - can someone explain me how being an undercover CIA agent makes the whole thing better? I seriously don't understand it. unsure
Okay, I think it is because everyone was like "you play as a terrorist?!?!" and that isn't true. Granted, you are still killing people, but perhaps it isn't so bad as you are working for the greater good. As in, if you go through with the mission, in theory, you are supposed to have successfully infiltrated the Russian team and thus prevent more killings or wars, etc. Of course, those of us who played the game know how it actually goes... I dunno, it doesn't make it better, but it is quite a bit different playing as a CIA agent than as an Al queda terrorist, you know? You're not a suicide bomber, you're a United States agent. Just my 2p.

Atom- if you shoot the terrorists, you restart- Mission failed. You blew your cover.
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 1:24pm

Post 50 of 231

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Rating: +3

So, in short... If a US Agent kills innocent people that's somehow less evil then when an al queda terrorist does, because US agents are inherently really good people and didn't mean it because they fight for a greater good while al queda terrorists are inherently bad and really kill just for fun and not for something they consider a greater good?

There's some twisted US morals right there again. crazy

I find the logic that killing innocent people as a CIA agent is not so bad as killing innocent people as a terrorist much more worrying then having a game with such a level... I mean honestly, who ever played any GTA game and hasn't gone on a random killing spree just for the sake of it. That doesn't make you a killer or a bad person. Just like slicing up your old stuffed toys as a kid is no sign that you're going to be a serial killer when you grow up.
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 2:12pm

Post 51 of 231

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Excellent points, Sollthar! +1
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 2:28pm

Post 52 of 231

No Respite Productions

Force: 985 | Joined: 4th Dec 2006 | Posts: 482

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Agreed, I thought the point about what you do with your toys as a kid was a very eloquent counter-argument and it's a shame some of the gaming website guys who get interrogated by the media over video game violence can't generate a more intelligent point of view.

I'd say the level is still an abhorrent thing to go through, regardless of what the end result is meant to be. It's something that could have easily been implemented as a cut scene or a non-playable scripted event, something you were made to see rather than participate in.

It does fit in with the overall plot line, but given how random and all over the shop it is I think it's a shame that a mediocre story has generated such controversy rather than something more mature and thought provoking.
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Post 53 of 231

gamesmaster369

Force: 410 | Joined: 29th Oct 2008 | Posts: 64

EffectsLab Pro User

Gold Member

Modern Warfare 2 is absolutely amazing. Best game I've ever played by far! I was gutted, because I thought I wouldn't be able to get it when it came out, but I managed to scrape some money up and get it. I had it at 5pm and stopped playing at 11. I then got up the next morning and started playing it again. The storyline is gripping and the gameplay is epic, also, Hans Zimmer has perfected the soundtrack. Online is incredible and can frustrate or make you feel like you're unstoppable. 5/5, 10/10, 100%, *****, nothing more to be said.
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 9:47pm

Post 54 of 231

gamesmaster369

Force: 410 | Joined: 29th Oct 2008 | Posts: 64

EffectsLab Pro User

Gold Member

Oh and a quick add on, the reason you can skip the mission is because it's an issue that happens in real life. You know, suicide bombings in airports etc. Some sensitive people may find this offensive.
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 9:51pm

Post 55 of 231

doppelganger

Force: 134 | Joined: 16th May 2006 | Posts: 1157

MacOS User

Member

gamesmaster369 wrote:

Oh and a quick add on, the reason you can skip the mission is because it's an issue that happens in real life. You know, suicide bombings in airports etc. Some sensitive people may find this offensive.
Thats an interesting theory you've got there.
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 10:07pm

Post 56 of 231

FreshMentos

Force: 1667 | Joined: 10th Jun 2006 | Posts: 1141

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Picked this up yesterday. Loving it. Single player is absolutely epic. I put many, many hours into CoD4's multiplayer and got pretty decent at it. I was a little worried at first that MW2's multiplayer was going too feel a bit stale. I can gladly say that despite following the same formula, it feels very fresh.
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 10:53pm

Post 57 of 231

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Sollthar wrote:

So, in short... If a US Agent kills innocent people that's somehow less evil then when an al queda terrorist does, because US agents are inherently really good people and didn't mean it because they fight for a greater good while al queda terrorists are inherently bad and really kill just for fun and not for something they consider a greater good?
It's not 'for fun', it's to drive a political point by inflicting terror on others. Yes, substantiating doing that under the guise of being a CIA agent doesn't really work, but goal isn't "drive political point solely through inflicting terror on others", which is the cornerstone of Al Queda and terrorism itself.

As far as you want to take 'the greater good' really measures how you see this situation, but when the agenda is "let's consciously go inflict terror and kill thousands for a quasi-religious political reasoning" that's a little different from one person merely participating alongside such terrorists. The actions are the same, and it's still a means to an end, but at the end of the day the American knows that killing thousands, even for the sake of a message, is still wrong. I'm not defending the actions of the CIA agent in the game - I think that's sort of insane to include, actually - but trust me when I say, terrorists are worse. Terrorists aren't just religious zealots or politicians, they're people who intentionally kill and torture others for their own benefit. There is a HUGE difference there.

Now, let me level with you - I think it's a lot worse that Infinity Ward has made you a CIA agent and not a terrorist for such a mission. I don't like to think that undercover operations run that deep (even if they do) or that any sane person would be willing to kill others for the sake of 'protecting' them. For this reason, it seems like a poor ethical (and patriotic) decision to have an American participate actively in terrorism, for whatever reason. This blurs the line between showing 'sensible' people in the game and 'political/evil zealots' and makes controversial what kind of moral compass either group operates off of. To me, society is worse of to be presented gameplay so convoluted in message.

But that's just me. biggrin

Just like slicing up your old stuffed toys as a kid is no sign that you're going to be a serial killer when you grow up.
There's actually a lot of evidence against that.
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 11:13pm

Post 58 of 231

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I'd argue the CIA agent is just thriving a political point as well, after all, the CIA is a political agency - whatever romantics the image of a "CIA undercover agent" in todays pop culture may have added to it.

If the thought was actually "if we make the player into a CIA agent, it's all less bad then when he's a terrorist. I mean, who wants to be a terrorist. But a CIA agent. Sure! Boys will love it. Agents are cool, terrorists aren't." then that really worries me. And it does show a twisted and simplistic, allthough very human, set of morals to me. The whole "terrorists are evil" thing doesn't really fly with me.

But be that as it may. I was juts interested because I genuinly didn't see that logic at first and wondered why it was even mentioned. Now I see.

There's actually a lot of evidence against that.
Oh! Care to link me to it? I'm very very interested in that!
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 11:21pm

Post 59 of 231

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Yeah, I'll have to go back through all my psychology notes, but there was some Freud-referential (or maybe it was Maslow, I can't remember) stuff about how mutilation of animals, even simulated mutilation lead to harmful tendencies, sometimes things like serial killing or psychologically-induced, needless violence.

I'll have to dig up those little factoids, though. biggrin

Also, I do think it was a poor decision to include a terrorist mission, let alone playing as an undercover agent. I think it would be more human to have you play as a terrorist (and maybe make some actions, like shooting bystanders happen automatically, as with the second level of the first Modern Warfare, where you're executed) to see how horrific the actions are, almost to make you not want to play the game. But that wouldn't be entertaining, it wouldn't be 'fun' gameplay, so they instead prop a salient idea (terrorist mission) up by having the main character be undercover, and then make it an actual mission to shoot civilians and take down American police officers.

Again, I think it's a bit better to play actively as a CIA agent than a terrorist, but I don't think playing actively in that mission is a good idea either way. A friend of mine, who is from Shanghai, said he loved the game but was thrown off by the terrorist mission. So I dunno.

Last edited Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 11:27pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 11:24pm

Post 60 of 231

ashman

Force: 4913 | Joined: 10th Sep 2005 | Posts: 904

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Terrorists aren't just religious zealots or politicians, they're people who intentionally kill and torture others for their own benefit.
You say terrorists intentionally kill and torture others for their own benefit. It could be argued that every country going to war does this. Remove the stereotype and 'terrorist' label and replace it with freedom fighter and your in a whole other debate.

I'm not disagreeing with you. You just make it sound so black and white, good vs bad and I really wish it was that simple.

I think it was in bad taste to have the level in the game personally, it doesn't drive the story forward, what little story there actually is, and the fact they give you an option to remove it makes me wonder if it's in there as a selling point through controversy. Good game overall though smile
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 11:31pm

Post 61 of 231

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

My point is that the means to an end was 'let's go kill civilians to further our point', whereas most other warfare has some (however hackneyed pacifists may find it) sense of 'honor' in that designated fighters kill other designated fighters.

We leave bystanders out of it, at least as frequently as possible. With terrorists, this designation does not exist - anyone with allegiance to a country or religion is a target. To me, that's a problem. I understand the need (although it sometimes seems needless) for political and even wartime conflicts, I don't see the need to execute civilians.

Granted, I'm against the war right now, just saying.
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 11:32pm

Post 62 of 231

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Interesting. We had both Freud and Maslow material in our psychology courses at uni, allthough Freud isn't really very up to date anymore. Would be interesting to read.

I hope it's not one of those wrong deductions again which so many people make with gaming and violence.

As in:
Lots of amok shooters play violent games hence playing violent games will turn you into an amok shooter or increase the chance of becoming an amok shooter.
A typical logic mistake many people make I get so tired of. But then again, higher logic has never been something many people excel at.

So I'd be very interested if either of these two have a actual evidence that the slicings of stuffed toys lead to being a serial killer that's not based on observations that numerous serial killers have sliced stuffed or real animals.
Posted: Sat, 14th Nov 2009, 11:37pm

Post 63 of 231

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

No, it's more in the realm of what psychological conditions drive a small, impressionable (though not yet impressed) child to mutilate the things they have power over. With very young children (3-5) it's stuffed animals, because those are 'beings' they can reign over, with older children (8-10 or so) I think it was small animals like birds, squirrels, etc that could further provide evidence towards the psychological conclusion that such violent tendencies could be replicated later in life very easily to human beings.

Granted, if you're 10 and you're slicing up stuffed animals, you're probably old enough to be slicing up actual living beings if you wanted; and as such probably don't carry any potentially disastrous psychological conditions.

And, despite these musings, I'm not claiming to know any/everything about psychology. I think, though, that it was that harmful tendencies in young children are a necessary step towards self-actualization, and that something about that made it again 'necessary' for them later in life to act on similar tendencies. Something like that.

All conjecture, however. Like most psychology/sociology. As statistics has often taught us, though, correlation definitely does not always equal causation.
Posted: Sun, 15th Nov 2009, 1:00am

Post 64 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Spoilers ahead, though a couple of points;

Playing as the CIA Agent you don't have to kill anyone. The decision to open fire is strictly down to the player. I found this to actually be an interesting comment on the mentality of gamers and gaming.

The reason the mission exists is to create a plot device which incites Russia to attack the U.S. A country which it is already at high tensions with. The CIA Agent is amongst the terrorists not to willingly co-operate with attacks against Russians, but to find information on the Terrorist ring leader to prevent what they believe may be Terrorist attacks in the US.

We're never told the exact details before the attack. We don't know if the US tried to thwart the attack but is unable to do so due to international troubles between the US and Russia. All we know is that the CIA Agent is involved in a situation where his life is forfeit if he does not play along.

The plot point is the terrorist inciting war on the states by double crossing the CIA Agent, leaving a US body in the airport to make it look like an attack on Russia by the American CIA. If you missed that, you're an idiot.

I don't think the level gels with the rest of the game at all, though I don't think the level itself is in bad taste. I found it a very brave and shocking attempt to underline what it takes to send a country to war in a world where things are more black and white. Good guys and bad guys are more absolute and there isn't any oil involved (And last I checked American were still torturing others for their own benefit).

If the game had gone on to be more poignant about war and the people ala Black Hawk Down this would have been praised. Instead, it's just a bit poorly executed, if you'll forgive the pun. I'd like to see the approach done properly set in a gaming universe which isn't also the mind of Michael Bay.

Oh well.
-Matt
Posted: Sun, 15th Nov 2009, 5:52am

Post 65 of 231

Goldenjabba

Force: 480 | Joined: 31st Jan 2009 | Posts: 72

EffectsLab Pro User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I would play it if I had something to play it on...

My computer is too overloaded with stuff right now, too add one more thing would not be wise razz
Posted: Sun, 15th Nov 2009, 3:57pm

Post 66 of 231

Bolbi

Force: 408 | Joined: 22nd Apr 2006 | Posts: 429

EffectsLab Pro User MacOS User

Gold Member

I found it weird that in the level in Rio de Janeiro you seen the SAS torturing the man you captured with a car battery, while in the next mission Soap condemns the Russians for being too brutal and killing thousands in the Gulags...
Posted: Sun, 15th Nov 2009, 5:44pm

Post 67 of 231

FreshMentos

Force: 1667 | Joined: 10th Jun 2006 | Posts: 1141

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Okay, just finished the single player. The last minute of the game gave me more adrenaline than a Michael Bay film. The reviews I read seemed to have problems with the campaign. I had very little issues with it myself. I knew the ending of COD4 was going to be hard to top, but Infinity Ward went far beyond the call of duty


See what I did there? wink


This game and Batman are up there with the best games I've played this generation. Still need to play Uncharted though. Anyone want to send me $300 for a PS3?
Posted: Sun, 15th Nov 2009, 5:47pm

Post 68 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Yeah I'm having trouble understanding how so many people are saying "I rushed through the mediocre single-player, because the multiplayer is where it's at!". What? No! The multiplayer is an improved version of exactly the same thing from CoD4. Awesome, yes, but not really that new. The single player, on the other hand, has tons of entirely unique and incredibly epic moments, along with possibly the best "boss fight" ever at the end. How can people just see it as a tacked-on bonus?
Posted: Sun, 15th Nov 2009, 6:34pm

Post 69 of 231

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

That all really comes down to opinion. Yeah the single player is good but it really depends on whether you like shooting against actual human minds or artificial intelligence... I'm a competitive player and AI doesn't cut it on that level.

It's still fun but it's not the challenge that I and millions of other competitive players are necessarily looking for.
Posted: Sun, 15th Nov 2009, 7:00pm

Post 70 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Ah the competitiveness thing might explain it. Personally, I vastly prefer an engaging cinematic narrative over kicking some 12 year old's arse online, but to each his own, eh? wink
Posted: Sun, 15th Nov 2009, 7:39pm

Post 71 of 231

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

It's always the "12 y/o" or "10 y/o" comment. Because of course they're the only age range playing the multiplayer on an 18+ rated game ha. You don't have to downplay the talents of others in order to mask the fact that you get dominated online, Pooky wink

When you work with an actual "clan", it's a completely different thing. Maybe 10 years from now, AI will be more on a competitive level than it is now but as it stands, they're just unrealistic, stereotypical moving sims neutral

It's still fun none-the-less but I don't get any feeling of accomplishment when I beat them. It's like beating up a really dumb person haha. I will say that the AI in racing games and fighting games are a great way to train and learn though (racing just slightly more so than fighting). Playing those AI types will greatly help your skills vs actual human opponents.
Posted: Sun, 15th Nov 2009, 7:56pm

Post 72 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Yeah, I was being sarcastic, heh. I do get dominated online, but my skill level follows a weird kind of pattern. Every single time that I play, I suck for the first 3-4 matches. Then for about 6-8 matches I am in the top three. Then I suck again. It's really weird.

But are you saying that you really don't get any enjoyment from the non-shooting bits in the single player? Like, say, (highlight to read spoiler)when you run like crazy on the Rio rooftops and jump onto the chopper ladder at the last second, or when you start a level in some sort of underground american refugee camp and walk through it, looking at the injured people, until you walk outside and realize it's DC. Didn't that do anything for you? Personally, those moments are where most of the appeal comes from.
Posted: Sun, 15th Nov 2009, 9:31pm

Post 73 of 231

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

No don't get me wrong, I LOVE my single player games. I haven't beaten MW2 yet but I'm liking what I'm seeing (2hrs into it). I still wouldn't say it's on the same level of cinematic as what Uncharted 2 does with it's single player campaign though but it's still great.

I definitely get enjoyment out of it. It's just the type of enjoyment that differs. This may be a stretch comparison but hear me out. I love movies but I also love sports. Single player campaigns are what I'd compare to a movie. Multiplayer is what I'd compare to a sport. One you play for the cinematic and interactive experience (immersing yourself in that particular world). The other you play to work with your team and hone your talents to stay better and one step ahead of the competition.

I like playing sports a little bit more than I like watching movies (In the literal sense as well as the gaming sense). Nothing comes before making movies though wink

That being said, Mass Effect is still probably my favorite game this gen and I can't wait for the sequel.

Last edited Sun, 15th Nov 2009, 9:35pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 15th Nov 2009, 9:34pm

Post 74 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

That makes perfect sense, thanks smile Also, if Uncharted 2 is more cinematic, I'm definitely going to have to find me a PS3 at some point.
Posted: Sun, 15th Nov 2009, 9:37pm

Post 75 of 231

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Yeah man, Uncharted 2 is ridiculous haha.
Posted: Tue, 17th Nov 2009, 11:09am

Post 76 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Finished the SinglePlayer last night. Definitely a better experience than CoD4 in terms of gameplay and story, but surprisingly short!

Multiplayer is as usual, excellent. Definitely an improvement, so many options and things to unlock.
Posted: Tue, 17th Nov 2009, 8:23pm

Post 77 of 231

DVStudio

Force: 4983 | Joined: 22nd Nov 2007 | Posts: 1845

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User PhotoKey 4 User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

Finished the SinglePlayer last night. Definitely a better experience than CoD4 in terms of gameplay and story
I finished it on Friday on veteran. Very cool, I agree. The Spec ops are also somewhat entertaining, I enjoyed that too. Live is great, as expected wink That AC-130 and Nuke are really, well... awesome!
Posted: Tue, 17th Nov 2009, 8:35pm

Post 78 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

The stealth sniping missions in Coop, particularly, are ridiculously badass if your friend knows what he's doing.
Posted: Tue, 17th Nov 2009, 10:26pm

Post 79 of 231

Garrison

Force: 5404 | Joined: 9th Mar 2006 | Posts: 1530

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I've just finished the single player as well. I really like the level of detail that is in each sequel - it just amazes me. When you look back at the original CoD it just makes you shudder.

Anyway, I like the Spec Ops addition and the new bells and whistles in the Multi-player to even out the shorter story line.

I'm not sure how I feel about the "terrorist" level, but as unusual as it was (to shoot innocent people), I didn't give much thought to it after that.
Posted: Mon, 30th Nov 2009, 8:40pm

Post 80 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Garrison wrote:


I'm not sure how I feel about the "terrorist" level, but as unusual as it was (to shoot innocent people), I didn't give much thought to it after that.
Agreed. I don't own it but saw that level and am sure I won't be buying it. Killing is one thing, I have no qualms about killing Armed russians/germans, and can stand some blood and guts but that level...gunning down civilans in cold blood, having to finish off people who are crawling on the ground (leaving a trail of gore behind them). Pretty much wrong in my opinion.
Other than that looks awesome...
Posted: Mon, 30th Nov 2009, 8:51pm

Post 81 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Rating: +1

I feel like I'm going crazy. Is no-one listening?

You don't play as a terrorist, and you don't have to kill any civilians in cold blood. Pulling the trigger is up to you, you can walk through the entire level behind the people you are with.

Please, hammer that into your brain. And whilst you're at it - Consider how you are assessing what is wrong and what is right. Every life you take in a computer game is essentially a virtual person, whether they're an enemy combatant or civilian.

Plus, stop trying to act like you have played through the grand theft auto games without harming ANYONE who isn't a mobster. Come on!

-Matt

Last edited Mon, 30th Nov 2009, 8:59pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 30th Nov 2009, 8:53pm

Post 82 of 231

Fill

Force: 1257 | Joined: 1st Jul 2005 | Posts: 1652

CompositeLab Lite User EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Wes the fxhome dude wrote:

I don't own it but saw that level and am sure I won't be buying it.
I don't own the game, but I saw the level, and read that you can choose to not play it, so I'll probably be buying it.

Pulling the trigger is up to you, you can walk through the entire level behind the people you are with.
I would love it if what people did on this level was recorded, and Infinity Ward released stats on it. Like a social experiment of sorts.
Posted: Mon, 30th Nov 2009, 9:01pm

Post 83 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Yeah Fill, I think the majority of people would have opened fire though. It feels like you're cued to by the games design. Which I suppose in itself is an interesting little psychological comment.

-Matt
Posted: Mon, 30th Nov 2009, 9:09pm

Post 84 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

I feel like I'm going crazy. Is no-one listening?

You don't play as a terrorist, and you don't have to kill any civilians in cold blood. Pulling the trigger is up to you, you can walk through the entire level behind the people you are with.

Please, hammer that into your brain. And whilst you're at it - Consider how you are assessing what is wrong and what is right. Every life you take in a computer game is essentially a virtual person, whether they're an enemy combatant or civilian.

Plus, stop trying to act like you have played through the grand theft auto games without harming ANYONE who isn't a mobster. Come on!

-Matt
I never have and never will play GTA games. And for the exact same reason. Killing terrorists, aliens, and russians is one thing. But gunning down civilians just for the fun of? Not to mention in a grusome manner... And yea fill, 99% people probably opened fire...

Last edited Mon, 30th Nov 2009, 9:27pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 30th Nov 2009, 9:18pm

Post 85 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Unless you're over 18 you shouldn't be playing it anyway. Though for the sake of discussion. I'm assuming you're under that age, because only a child would equate terrorists or Russians with the undead.

Most people probably did open fire, because the character they're playing as - An American CIA Agent in Deep Cover trying to prevent Makarov would have opened fire too.

Not out of cruelty or the enjoyment of killing innocent civilians, but because he'd have felt it was necessary for his missions success - to convincingly embed himself in Makarov's extremist unit. He is shooting Russians essentially, for what he believes is the greater good for America.

Suddenly things aren't so clear cut, but a little understanding is required to get there. Whether or not this kind of statement fits in with the rest of the game is a little debatable - but it exists all the same. So I ask you again - What defines what is right and wrong when it is for the greater good?

Is playing as an American Soldier shooting Russians who attack because you gunned down an airport full of unarmed civilians believing America to have committed a Terrorist Act (which they did, really) also wrong, then? Because surely it's not a case of good guys vs bad guys... And what does being gruesome have to do with it? ANY case of firing super-sonic shards of metal through a conscious, aware living being is gruesome. WAKE UP.

-Matt

Last edited Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 6:48pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 30th Nov 2009, 9:33pm

Post 86 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I took out the undead. I have never played l4d never will. It didn't fit.
I am not questioning the reason for gunning the civialins down. It no doubt fits in the story line. It's the idea of gunning down civialans in a simulatdd game for, ahem, entertainment. But then we come back to the pixels on the screen issue. It's just a game. U don't have to assert your loyalty. U will notice GTa has more inspired wannabes than Medal Of Honor.
And yes, any killing is gruesome, it's just the level of detail. I can understand blood, and it adds some realism. But when we are so realistic we have people on the floor gasping for air? Leaveing a trail of gore behind?
And I am not saying this is right or wrong. I would no doubt do the same thing, in real life. But during an simulated game for entertainment? A little difference my friend, a little difference.
P.S. u only have to look at my profile to know my age (And yes I do play Halo 3 smile )

Last edited Mon, 30th Nov 2009, 10:02pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 30th Nov 2009, 9:42pm

Post 87 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Welcome to the real world, son.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'inspire wannabes'. Did the Medal of Honour games affect anyone's decision to join the military - possibly. So there's your argument right of the window. This is assuming that violent video games make people violent.

Science so far says no. If you'd like to research that further there's a book called Grand Theft Childhood I recommend.

War is war, something me and you can decadently and thankfully know very little about and be at relative peace with that. Not everyone is so lucky, and games like Call of Duty alongside films such as Saving Private Ryan at times serve as reminders as to how lucky we are. Even if it may at times shock us as means of its story telling.

If bang bang shoot bad guys is your thing, I heard the G.I. Joe game might be your thing/is a big steaming pile of crap. Also worth mentioning that MW2 gives you the option to skip all the disturbing scenes, a message pops up when you first start the game.

But still, maybe spend some time thinking about what the game is actually doing. Effectively the Russians invading America are the game are civilians spurred into what they think is a pre-emptive attack to defend the country they believe America Attacked. Civilians AND Soldiers are human beings.

I do appreciate what you're saying. You're fine with killing bad guys, that's a totally understandable concept. All I am saying in return is - Maybe MW2 wants you to question what makes someone a 'bad guy'. Not everything is simple good vs evil, finally gaming is (imperfectly) representing that.

-Matt

p.s. Nothing wrong with playing Halo 3. I've had some laughs on Halo.
Posted: Mon, 30th Nov 2009, 9:56pm

Post 88 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

It's great to know we are on the same page (kinda).
Wannabes wasn't the right word. copycats to be more precise.
About a dose of reality you are right. We all need a reminder of how easy we have life here the U.S. (I am speaking for myself). I am legend is a good example. Not too graphic, it had a moral point to it, and was a good reminder that it isn't us against the world.
I saw that thing about the disturbing content mod. That's nice to know. And if the G.I. Joe is anything like the movie I am sure what u are saying is true.
Again u r right. Nothing is very clear cut nowadays. Video games are blurring the lines (I am looking at u prototype *never played it, just heard things*). Hopefully we don't come to the point where gunning down virtual civilans is esteemed because the is the first step down a slippery slope...
P.S. I can see u had a laugh with halo, Hybrid-Halo...
Posted: Mon, 30th Nov 2009, 10:47pm

Post 89 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

All I see in the list of copycats is a mix of addiction leading to other problems and an inability to take responsibility met with an ideal scapegoat - a medium which the law and the public has a minority understanding of.

It was film, comic books and even Dungeons and Dragons not so long ago, remember. Also worth noting that the only lawyer to prominently fight these cases - Jack Thompson, was disbarred over several repeated cases of professional misconduct.

You don't get people claiming Phoenix Wright made them a lawyer, or Trauma Centre made them surgeons.

Here are some quotes from the article you linked, by the way:
It is also worth noting that violent crime rates in the USA have declined dramatically since the early 1990s, among both juveniles[25] and adults,[26][27] even as sales of violent video games exploded and such games became increasingly graphic over time.
After conducting a two-year study of more than 1,200 middle-school children about their attitudes towards video games, Harvard Medical School researchers Lawrence Kutner and Cheryl Olson found that playing video games did not have a particularly negative effect on the researched group.
Idiots it seems, will be idiots. The biggest problems aren't that computer games exist - it's that parents are buying them for kids who they aren't meant to be played by. Even if it isn't harmful from a scientific perspective - it allows the argument "Grand Theft Auto made my son a murderer" bs.

-Matt
Posted: Mon, 30th Nov 2009, 11:21pm

Post 90 of 231

Terminal Velocity

Force: 2507 | Joined: 7th Apr 2008 | Posts: 1350

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

It depends on whether or not you consider video games more like films or entertainment.
What I mean is, the pornographic level of violence in Saving Private Ryan was taken fairly well and even applauded. Why? Because it shows us that war is not, one might say, a game. It makes us stop and think and can even make us feel kind of uncomfortable for sitting in our cozy little worlds, underestimating our troops and taking war like a joke. (I am not claiming to be exempt from this crowd.) It tried to make us think twice about the horrific reality of WWII, etc., instead of how it's portrayed on watered-down Hollywood movies.
Movies in general have two purposes: to entertain and/or to get a message across. They've been this way pretty much forever. So, when you see violence on SPR level portrayed in a grim or gritty manner, you can usually assume that it isn't meant for fun.
Video games, on the other hand, are generally meant for one purpose: entertainment. Hence the name "video games". When they were first made, there were no messages they were trying to get across. All the way up till now, the vast majority of video games and the greater part of each individual game is to provide entertainment and fun, however it happens. GTA glorifies blood and gore, as do games like Dead Space and Gears of War. Because of this majority, when a game comes out that's trying to "emulate" a film by sending a message, people take it as glorification of violence. Basically, though video games are theoretically a medium that could be used like films, they aren't used that way as a general rule. Do I think video games can send a message? Sort of, but the thing is they're meant to entertain, therefore: no matter how grim or sad the mission you must accomplish, if it's a worthy game you'll still enjoy playing it, therefore counteracting its possibly intended purpose.

@Hybrid-Halo: I think Wes is right in the sense that even if murdering civilians may be trying to make a statement, it's using a medium that isn't often employed for that purpose and can therefore be easily mistaken.

@Wes: Hybrid-Halo, I think, is looking at the game in the sense that he might look at a film (working in the industry and all). That the purpose might not be the entertainment of gunning down civilians, but to make a point.

Have I ticked anyone off? twisted
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 12:18am

Post 91 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Richard III wrote:

Have I ticked anyone off? twisted
Yes, by allowing that stupid twitter @ garbage to be used somewhere other than the confines of twitter.

@Richard III:lol jes saw ur post m8 gr8 one lol rofl

LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE!
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 12:28am

Post 92 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

@Aculag: People've been using that since before Twitter, though.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 12:54am

Post 93 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Problems with your argument:

GTA Doesn't Glorify blood and gore. Very few people seem to have noticed that the series have largely been a satirical commentary on mafia/gangster films. Lately they have had a more serious tone but the bottom line is that if you commit a crime, the police come after you causing you problems if you're looking to continue playing.

Gears of War is as much a pastiche of violence than anything I can think of. It is the modern day Duke Nukem - a nod to films like Starship Troopers. There are really no cases where violence against civilians are justified or encouraged in either of those games. Dead Space and Gears of War don't even feature human combatants.

Games and Films serve both serve a range of purposes - you don't look to Die Hard for a social commentary, neither would you look to Gears of War for an introspective examination of how we treat non-human life forms. They're both designed to be mindless action. There are of course, better examples of both games and films which do.

Call of Duty 4 won a BAFTA for it's story telling. So you don't need much of a brain to imagine that it's sequel may too, be trying to tell a story. That it chooses some shocking tactics to do this is pretty ballsy, and though maybe not a huge success - maybe a step forwards for the medium. The problem I had with Wes's opinion is that he said that it was 'wrong' to do so, followed up by some relatively tunnel visioned definitions of when it is okay to shoot someone in the face. It's fine to shoot Russians except for in the previous Call of Duty games where you play Russians but it's fine to shoot Germans. unsure

That computer games don't often do this is however, perhaps just an indication of a lack of experience. Innocent civilians are harassed and beaten throughout Half Life 2, the original even features an entire alien race enslaved against their will - who you kill. World of Warcraft features area where as evil characters, you slaughter villages full of civilians.

In any case, if you're too young to play it - don't. Rather than claim the game should essentially be censored so you can. And if the content makes you uncomfortable - just avoid it so that other people, who might desire to follow a story as it was designed to be told can do so.

People have to lose the idea that video games are toys. They are now becoming fully fledged formats in which telling a story is becoming increasingly immersive. Looking far into the future - Tech like Virtual Reality will start with computer games.

-Matt
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 12:59am

Post 94 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Pooky wrote:

@Aculag: People've been using that since before Twitter, though.
People have done a lot of stupid sh*t since before twitter, but that doesn't make it any less stupid. wink

And yes, people need to lose the idea that games are just games and can never be a legitimate storytelling device. Even back in the day, Lucas Arts and others were making graphic adventures that told a compelling story. Some of my favorite games of all time include The Dig and Full Throttle. Technology has finally caught up to the imaginations of developers and we're able to see much more immersive graphics, and game studios have also finally realized the benefit of hiring GOOD voice actors.

I think Uncharted 2 has raised the bar for interactive storytelling. It has some of the best, most believable graphics and animations out there combined with the best voice acting and writing games have ever seen. I'm sure there will always be that percentage of the population who believe that games are just games and nothing will top reading a good book or watching a good movie, but it's definitely getting there.

I'm really looking forward to playing Heavy Rain because it looks, more than any game before it, like an interactive film. It's sole purpose is to tell a story, and the gaming elements are woven into that, as opposed to a game where the sole purpose is gaming with a story woven in. It is an interesting time for games, and I look forward to seeing what the next several years brings us.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 1:31am

Post 95 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Well then what does GTA glorify hybrid-halo (Think hot coffee)? I don't have a quarrel with gears of war 2 from what I have heard (I won't be buying it but). Halo and gears of war are prime examples of fun alien basting games. And I didn't say that the scene was 'wrong',I certainly don't agree with it at all.
On another road RichIII hit the nail on the head. COD could be trying to emulate the SPR atmosphere of the horror of war (and how awesome WWIII would be). But gunning down helpless children an elderly folks who don't hold a grudge with u? And watching them gasp for breath? HAVE WE LOST OUR MINDS! Doing it in a game will not ever help someone to be a law abiding citizen and not murder the person who stole ur parking spot. Furthermore I think this is the first step down a slppery slope...
And for the record I am not too young. And I played most of the previous call of dutys...Are we clear?
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 1:50am

Post 96 of 231

rogolo

Force: 5436 | Joined: 29th May 2005 | Posts: 1513

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 User MacOS User

Gold Member

Wes - if you can stand a bit of swearing, check out Penn & Teller's show 'Bullsh*t!', specifically the episode about video games and their relation to violence. Seriously, watch it. It addresses pretty much every point you bring up, and is more convincing and succinct than I could be on an internet forum.

At the very least, it's an entertaining watch.

(Season 7, episode 3. You can probably find it on a site like Hulu, Sho.com, or or possibly one of these.)
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 2:14am

Post 97 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Wes the fxhome dude wrote:

But gunning down helpless children an elderly folks who don't hold a grudge with u? And watching them gasp for breath? HAVE WE LOST OUR MINDS!
What are you talking about? This hasn't ever happened in a game, and likely never will.

Doing it in a game will not ever help someone to be a law abiding citizen and not murder the person who stole ur parking spot. Furthermore I think this is the first step down a slppery slope...
People who would kill someone for stealing a parking spot have serious issues before they play games. I have played a LOT of violent games and have never even been in a fist fight. The idea of murdering someone repulses me, but doing it in a video game doesn't bother me, same as watching it happen in a movie doesn't bother me, because I know it isn't real. I can watch people's heads being blown off all day in a movie or game where I know it isn't real, but watching something like the decapitation of a prisoner of war makes me sick to my stomach because I know it IS. Any sane person feels the same way, and is able to tell the difference. Like usual, I'm not really understanding your point. It sounds like you're trying to play the "video games make people violent" card, which is archaic and only propagated by sensationalists.


And for the record I am not too young. And I played most of the previous call of dutys...Are we clear?
Hehe, "are we clear" yes, dad, we understand.

It probably has less to do with being too young, and more to do with being too inexperienced in life.

See:
COD could be trying to emulate the SPR atmosphere of the horror of war (and how awesome WWIII would be)
Say what now? You have "the horror of war" and "how awesome WWIII would be" in the same sentence. I don't think Saving Private Ryan ever intended to make war look "awesome". Not even to 14 year old boys.

Yet again, I'm probably just misinterpreting your post because it makes little sense to begin with, but I feel that you just need to mature a bit more in order to really understand what you are talking about.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 2:22am

Post 98 of 231

Terminal Velocity

Force: 2507 | Joined: 7th Apr 2008 | Posts: 1350

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

Problems with your argument:

GTA Doesn't Glorify blood and gore. Very few people seem to have noticed that the series have largely been a satirical commentary on mafia/gangster films. Lately they have had a more serious tone but the bottom line is that if you commit a crime, the police come after you causing you problems if you're looking to continue playing.

Gears of War is as much a pastiche of violence than anything I can think of. It is the modern day Duke Nukem - a nod to films like Starship Troopers. There are really no cases where violence against civilians are justified or encouraged in either of those games. Dead Space and Gears of War don't even feature human combatants.
Well, I'm not talking about violence against civilians, but shooting in general. GoW was the only thing I could think of at the moment, and I may be wrong about that particular game. What I was referring to was violence in general, bloody splatters when you get a headshot, other stuff like that. It (not necessarily GoW) seems to make the best shot the biggest hero. No, neither of them advocate violence against helpless beings, but neither in my mind do they make a statement that "WAR/FIGHTING IS BAD". (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

Games and Films serve both serve a range of purposes - you don't look to Die Hard for a social commentary, neither would you look to Gears of War for an introspective examination of how we treat non-human life forms. They're both designed to be mindless action. There are of course, better examples of both games and films which do.
I'm saying that I think sending messages is not an express and oft-used purpose of video games, so that it's easy to mistake true attempts at making points for (in MW2's case) sheer bloodthirstiness. I think that while this has been changing in the past few years, it's still an ingrained fact about video games that they are meant for fun, not depth of thinking.

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

Call of Duty 4 won a BAFTA for it's story telling. So you don't need much of a brain to imagine that it's sequel may too, be trying to tell a story. That it chooses some shocking tactics to do this is pretty ballsy, and though maybe not a huge success - maybe a step forwards for the medium. The problem I had with Wes's opinion is that he said that it was 'wrong' to do so, followed up by some relatively tunnel visioned definitions of when it is okay to shoot someone in the face. It's fine to shoot Russians except for in the previous Call of Duty games where you play Russians but it's fine to shoot Germans. unsure
I think Wes is incorrect in saying it's "wrong", but the lines he's thinking along are basically right, because of the generalization (incorrect as they can be) that I make about games.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 9:50am

Post 99 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Wes the fxhome dude wrote:

Killing terrorists, aliens, and russians is one thing.
I know the discussion has already moved on, but I felt the need to draw attention back to this sentence, which is one of the most amazingly crazy things I've ever read on FXhome. You do realise Russians are a normal people who just happen to live/be born in a particular country?

I suggest you stop lapping up anti-game and anti-Russian propaganda, because a) it's not the 90s anymore and b) it's not the 80s anymore.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 9:57am

Post 100 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I don't think Wes understands what he's saying sometimes. He's a very confused person. I could blame a few things, but I won't. Because that is the kind of thing that Aculag (who I am definitely NOT) would do, and I am definitely NOT Aculag.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 10:46am

Post 101 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Wes the fxhome dude wrote:

Well then what does GTA glorify hybrid-halo (Think hot coffee)?
If you'd paid any attention to GTA:San Andreas, you'd know that it mostly glorifies saving your neighbourhood and moving people away from hardcore drugs. A lot of the start of the game - where you return home from Prison is very grim. Almost like the TV Series The Wire.

As for the Hot Coffee element, part of the game that could only be seen if you hacked the game itself using an Action Replay to access data you were never meant to, I guess you could say it advocated good sex and sleeping with women. Pretty much what every Beer/AfterShave advert on television does.

Since when was depth of thinking not fun? For the large part - a lack of depth often detracts from my gaming experience and how much fun I can derive from it.

Bottom line is that there's still no excuse to applying pre-pubescant Morality logic to computer games. It's an evolutionary medium, rather than be conservative idiotholes as an audience we need to keep up or get out.

Here's a thought - maybe you're not meant to agree with the murder of civilians. Maybe that's why the scene has impact. Maybe that's why you feel Russia's response is justified. Wes, you are definitely either too young or too stupid to seem to understand the bigger issue here. Choose which.

-Matt

p.s. Worth mentioning that I don't need any help not killing someone for taking my parking space. I sort of you know, have a sense of morality for that. Something which cannot be degraded, but is often enhanced and questioned by computer games.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 10:50am

Post 102 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Personally, I'm glad for games like GTA, because it enables me to get rid of my pent up anger without having to take it to the street. I can't imagine how many pensioners I'd have killed for taking my parking spaces if it weren't for games like GTA. Modern Warfare 2 is also great, because it allows me to kill Russians without having to actually kill Russians.

That's right, games save pensioners and Russians.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 2:27pm

Post 103 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

First off I'll say this, I used Russians because it was the best fit. I didn't do Germans because fxhome is based in the UK (to aviod any arguments). I can't discriminate religious groups, and russia has been a long time antagonistic of the U.S. (Think Space race, Cold war, cuban missile crisis). I'll say terrorists for now. Terrorists that decapitate nosy reporters and those who send people into human meat grinders (Hussain) Second of all I never implied that playing GTA or COD will make u kill a dude over a parking spot. And there's a 99.9 % chance it won't. And the same goes for that scene in modern warefare. Probably there will be 1 or 2 cases in the next few years because of that level. But it's the notion of of committing mass murder. I can guarantee in the next few years we will see more games will that same formula in it. And when the heroes of teensagers all over the nation are shooting innocent people (It's happening already, Half life and world warcraft? And again, I said the level isn't clear cut wrong. But it's not right either. And yes, Def. not Acula, there was woman and possibly children for the record. I can see the reasoning behind murdering civilians. In real war it is nesacary sometimes to have the "black flag" mentality in order to be successful. I would no doubt (in real life) have done the same thing to assert my loyalty. But in a game for entertainment? Something that isn't real? It's just the basic idea of killing helpless people.
And I agree with u tarn, Some people would be R.I.P. if it wasn't for some steam releasing video games.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 3:18pm

Post 104 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Wes the fxhome dude wrote:

First off I'll say this, I used Russians because it was the best fit. I didn't do Germans because fxhome is based in the UK (to aviod any arguments).
But...Germany come from Germany, not the United Kingdom.

Also, in the previous CoD games you weren't shooting generic 'Germans'. You were shooting Nazis. Big difference.

I can't discriminate religious groups, and russia has been a long time antagonistic of the U.S.
The USSR and Russian governments, yes. Russians in general? No.

And when the heroes of teensagers all over the nation are shooting innocent people (It's happening already, Half life and world warcraft?
Eh? Have you played either of those games? Neither of them feature the shooting of innocent people.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 3:40pm

Post 105 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Wes is an American, yes?

America currently uses torture facilities as well as waged an illegal war of which countless civilians have been killed as well as many Americans needlessly losing their lives. But this doesn't make you as an American, or American soldiers guilty of the crimes of a government.

The same is true of Russians, Germans or whatever nationality of people you're reasoning it's "okay to kill". You seem to have a very shallow understanding of entertainment - Civilians are killed in the James Bond films, The Sum of all Fears, 2012 and Transformers yet you're not crying about those.

The level in MW2 is set up to essentially, show how evil Makarov is. That you're involved as a player makes things intricate and interesting (But we've already gone into that). At the core if it - the level exists not to be entertaining but to set up a bad guy the game then leaves you to take down before he can harm more innocent people. And bringing justice to him is what is then designed to be entertaining.

i.e. Darth Vader blew up an entire fucking planet of civilians. The act adds depth to his character and only strengthens his position as the antagonist. This act of evil is part of what makes an audience side with the rebel alliance so strongly even though Vader is badass.

If you can't understand that, then you're going to develop problems with a lot of books and decent movies where the villains have actually, you know, done something evil.

-Matt

p.s. Seriously, the return/enter button is right there. Learn how to use it.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 3:48pm

Post 106 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: -4

Wait my bad, Germany is in Europe isn't it... doh
And Nazi's are mostly Germans, not a "big" difference...
I was referring more to communists, the USSR etc.
No I haven't played them, but was told both featured enslaving and killing civilians...
And again, I am not saying it is a clear cut wrong thing to harm a pixelated form representing a human, but it's the ethic issue behind doing so (As H-H said, v-games are being more than just games "They are now becoming fully fledged formats in which telling a story is becoming increasingly immersive").

Last edited Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 7:57pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 4:00pm

Post 107 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Hybrid - I'm fairly appalled at your attempts to libel Darth Vader. It's quite clear that he disapproved of the destruction of Alderaan and was in fact on several occasions recorded in the official minutes as trying to dissuade Grand Moff Tarkin from undertaking such action.

Wes the fxhome dude wrote:

And Nazi's are Germans, not a "big" difference...
I'm not going to dignify that comment with a response.

No I haven't played them, but was told both featured enslaving and killing civilians...
I suggest you stop listening to whomever 'told' you this, and try hard to find more reliable, or at least more diverse sources.

WoW has you killing fantasy monsters 90% of the time. The rest of the time you can battle other players, again in a very fantastical, cartoony environment, and everybody comes back to life at the end of it.

Half Life 2 has you as a freedom fighter trying to free the human race from alien enslavement. You don't shoot any civilians - in fact, you rescue and/or fight alongside them quite frequently.

Although I suppose in your view of the world Gordon Freeman would actually be classified as a terrorist, and you'd accept all of Dr Breen's propaganda at face value. Seriously, don't believe everything you're told without triple checking it from different sources, whether it's about games or more serious topics.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 4:20pm

Post 108 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Wes the fxhome dude wrote:

Wait my bad, Germany is in Europe isn't it... doh
And Nazi's are Germans, not a "big" difference...
I was referring more to communists, the USSR etc.
Instant -1.

Nazi's were members of the Nazi Party led by Hitler, an Austrian. The Nazi party ended in 1945 at the end of the Second World War but was still just a regime, not an accurate summary of the German people, many of whom died opposing it.

the USSR no Longer exists, and Modern Russia as well as the Russians in CoD4 and MW2 are not Communists. In fact the only thing that makes it acceptable to shoot Russian soldiers later in the game is the level you're condemning. The irony also being that the lack of international understanding is typically what gets America into such trouble, a comment also being made by the mentioned level.

From the sound of things, you're someone with absolutely no experience of what you're trying to condemn let alone any clue about the world around you. In these situations you just need to learn to shut your mouth.

-Matt

p.s. Rest of America - don't worry, I won't be judging you by the comments of one idiot.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 4:44pm

Post 109 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I never said the Russians were communists or that America was right to torture people or use illegal warfare.
And Tarn, u might be surprised at my source, P.S. page. 7, hybrid halos first post on that page. It appears u two might have played different games...And when you say nazis, most people think of Germans, I am not that stupid to think that the nazis were only germans. But if I remember correctly Germans were the main force in the war. Forgive me for generalizing.
If u enjoy gunning down down innocents for the fun of it, good luck, I don't want a part of it.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 5:04pm

Post 110 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Hard to forgive you for generalizing when you go on to generalize and make assumptions in the next sentence.

Because a medium is becoming a canvas to effectively tell a story, does not mean that everything a story subjects you to must be enjoyable for the audience. Examples of this in cinema and books are numerous.

Once again, you've neglected to remember (because you're an idiot) that you don't need to shoot any civilians during MW2. Though as a player, you may choose to begrudgingly just as your character made. It's a moral dilemma but in any case - isn't an enjoyable experience.

The Crux of your argument is that you believe shooting people is only ethical when there is a clear cut good vs bad scenario. And that is exactly what the Airport level sets up - Makarov is unquestionably the bad guy, the game continues on with you dealing with the consequences of his actions and trying to bring him to justice. Without the atrocity of the airport scene - Makarov's status as an enemy worthy of American involvement would seem just another world meddling in the affairs of Russia.

In WW2 games you are largely shooting Germans in the face - though these people were not all activist Nazis. Germany's government conscripted their population into the Army. When an American Soldier is killed in Iraq, would you reason that the soldier deserved to die, despite it being his government which sent him to Iraq breaking international law?

When someones says 'Nazi's' most intelligent people think of a very specific group of German soldiers and politicians, over half a century ago and think largely of fundamental activist Nazis rather than incidental Nazis.

You don't need to tell me you don't want a part of it, because you are not invited. You're a 14 year old child and Modern Warfare 2 is an 18 rated experience designed for adults. Participation is not your choice, you are not allowed by law to purchase it.

So stop commenting about something you know absolutely nothing about. You rant away as though the games are likely to erode your ability to make a sound moral decision, if you truly believe that to be the case then check yourself in for some therapy immediately. Until then, shut up.

-Matt
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 5:12pm

Post 111 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Hybrid - though Wes is being fairly ridiculous and borderline offensive in some of his posts, let's not resort to being too aggressive in our responses, eh?


Wes - the enslavement and punishment of civilians in HL2 is perpetrated by the 'bad guys', not by the player. In fact, the player very specifically doesn't even have access to a weapon during that point of the game.

As for the WoW example Hybrid mentions, I'm not familiar with it. However, the general comedy-cartoony style of the game does tend to prevent it from being taken seriously, especially as nothing is permanent.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 5:13pm

Post 112 of 231

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

What Wes is saying is completely idiotic and nonsensical most of the time, yeah I'll give you that, and him and Richard are both too young to either understand or posit a completely realized point on these games I think; yeah as well. But I still don't know who you think you are these days Hybrid.

As if the instant someone says something fallible you're given the liberty to throw caution to the wind and be a complete ass, name-call, and use whatever diction and condescension you like.

As with the gaming thread, in which you went to directly call me an asshole, say I shirked things like an 'ignorant idiothole', and blatantly said 'you don't have any friends' with a seeping air of condescension seemingly get off scot-free because 'oh, well, Atom asked for it....uh....' or some bullshit; deleting all the ratings on your posts multiple times, and editing them ever so slightly as if that will change things.

No. It won't. Stop it, and stop beating down on these kids. You should have more sense and maturity than this, hell that's what you always tell me! For someone who constantly likes to tell people to turn the other cheek, take the high road, or generally ignore flaming- you do and react to it more unfavorably than any other member I can think of on here.

Even if its warranted, it's all still just very mean-spirited. And it makes me like these forums less.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 5:30pm

Post 113 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I'm Half German, I think I'm allowed to be more than a little annoyed in my responses when someone does no less than equate all Germans to Nazis. I guess my Nazi Blood makes me a mean spirit, according to Wolfenstein or something.

Granted, I've always been one to aggressively state my opinion - And calling people out when they are way out of line is what I do. Inclusive of being personal about it. After all if Wes is only being borderline offensive then I'm only being borderline impolite.

Atom - In the gaming thread, the consensus was that you were being a douchebag. Over-talking about a subject you just didn't understand and Wes is doing the same here. Who I think I am, and my responses reflect that - to mass agreement. Go figure. If I remember rightly, the sentence that prompted me to post at all could also be described as "Seeping with condescension". In short - I don't feel you're in a position to comment on that. I will take note and try and tone my responses down a little in the future though.

Also worth mentioning that in both cases it hasn't been the instant someone says something fallible either. Both cases have been continued repetition of off the rails opinions completely neglecting evidence to the contrary or counterpoints. Whether my argument is heavy handed or not - that you can't intelligently counter my point but choose to negative rate threads that essentially tell you to grow up is why they get removed, this isn't always by me.

The edit on my post in the gaming thread changed "Asshole" to "Assassins Creedhole" on the basis that it is more demeaning - this isn't a content change, I can always change it back if you wish.

Tarn - I'll try and tone it down, as it obviously won't evoke an ideal response. Wes's points are at best - misguided attempts at trying to make a point coming off as extremely offensive and at worst the archetype of the American Idiot. It's ridiculous this is continuing.

Wes - All I can suggest is that you do a little research before you want to make a point. If it's your choice to avoid games that may offend you, by all means go ahead. But I urge you to have some experience of anything it is you want to speak out against. Otherwise you're going to struggle to make an argument and end up saying things like Half Life 2 has you killing innocent civilians etc.

-Matt

Last edited Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 5:47pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 5:46pm

Post 114 of 231

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

that you can't intelligently counter my point but choose to negative rate threads that essentially tell you to grow up is why they get removed, this isn't always by me.
I didn't respond, though, because as my post right before yours in that thread offered an honest apology and ended my entry in the conversation. I haven't commented since, and said I wouldn't.

This isn't worth debating, because this is a different thread, but don't mistake restraint for cowardice- and don't try and hide behind your words. I negative rated you, and will continue to do so, on the double-basis that your response was ill-timed and irrelevant to the conversation (as I had exited it) but mostly because it was directly and bluntly insulting to me as a person. Not because you told me to grow up, because your callously called me profane names.


Look, I don't care if you think I'm an asshole, I really don't. What I care about is someone with moderating power drowning in hypocrisy. Understandably, it bothers me.

You can't have excuses for why you're entitled to bully people and then not let others do the same; just as you can't have guidelines for people to act civil and not follow them to the same degree yourself.

I'm not trying to argue here, I just think you should be more keen to your own advice and less mean-spirited about it all. Surely someone who works in the industry should know this. Obviously feel free to ignore this advice and twist it around onto how 'I just don't understand....' or how 'atom's just awful! he's the hypocrite!'. But take it for what it's worth.

I won't be responding, because I'm not trying to enter this conversation. Just thought that needed to be said.

Last edited Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 5:52pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 5:51pm

Post 115 of 231

No Respite Productions

Force: 985 | Joined: 4th Dec 2006 | Posts: 482

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I'd give this game a 6/10 overall.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 5:56pm

Post 116 of 231

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

No Respite Productions wrote:

I'd give this game a 6/10 overall.
Care to elaborate? I'm so split on this game. I would have got it if the single player lasted a little while (or if I had two controls and could co-op with my brother), but what with having no real time for online gaming, and the short single player this offers I don't think this game is for me until it goes significantly down in price.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 5:58pm

Post 117 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

What you say is true, I do work in the industry.

To quickly address the gaming thread - your apology constituted of what I, and others read as "Well, I disagree and apologize. But if you guys want to continue being losers playing computers games on your own by my guest."

I underlined this when I quoted you. If I totally misinterpreted then I sincerely apologize. That's why I said "Way to continue being an asshole" and continue to poke fun at your statement. It's not that I think you're an asshole, but that I felt you were being an asshole and if I was alone in this someone other than you would take up opposition.

Currently my list of victims include : You and Someone who directly offended the entire German populace. I don't think I'll be on trial for any war crimes in the near future.

BUT - As much as I want to argue that positions of power are a 'Do as I say, not as I do' regime. That's not the environment I would happily cultivate at FXhome. I should indeed be more keen to my own advice and will make a (subtle and unnoticeable, but redefining) effort to do so.)

So Atom, chin up I don't hate you, I save all my hatred for Russians, Communists, Aliens and Germans!. And the same goes for you Wes - granted you're only young and I suppose that grants you some degree of excuse regarding a knowledge of international history. There's a good reason these games are age rated after all.

-Matt
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 6:05pm

Post 118 of 231

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Glad I'm not the only hypocrite moderator in atoms book anymore. smile

*high fives Matt*
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 6:08pm

Post 119 of 231

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Yours is on the basis of risky content and viewpoints, though, not hypocritical advice. wink
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 6:15pm

Post 120 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

And by our powers combined...
*High Fives Marco*
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 6:22pm

Post 121 of 231

No Respite Productions

Force: 985 | Joined: 4th Dec 2006 | Posts: 482

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Staff Only wrote:

No Respite Productions wrote:

I'd give this game a 6/10 overall.
Care to elaborate? I'm so split on this game. I would have got it if the single player lasted a little while (or if I had two controls and could co-op with my brother), but what with having no real time for online gaming, and the short single player this offers I don't think this game is for me until it goes significantly down in price.
Well to be honest I was trying to get these guys to put a sock in it. Didn't work but the single player game is too short, badly written and with the exception of a few stand out moments... just not that engaging.

Multiplayer is where it's at, but that is just more of what you had in Modern Warfare 1 to be honest. What really grated me is the way they've tried to overprice this game, I'm very pleased I got it discounted at Sainsburys.

Being more serious it's more like a very solid 7/10.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 6:25pm

Post 122 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: -3

I think atom is right. Everyone, Including Rich and me have a right to our own opinions, without, a forum moderator at that, calling people names, negativly rating posts, and debunking everything he says. I made a comment about how I didn't like that level and wouldn't be buying, next thing, BBBAAAMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!! H-H comes in yelling at me to hammer ideas into my head, tell us he's going "crazy", ect. Next thing I say (About how I don'tlike GTA) he goes on a tirade of how I am dumb, and a stupid infant. I can understand disagreement with each other but do we have to take it out with name calling etc.
Let's a least try to act civilized.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 6:39pm

Post 123 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Is that called exercising your statutory right to remain uncorrected? razz

If you're oblivious to why something you said might offend me then I give up. I suppose that in hindsight - what made my posts extra-mean was that I was convincing you that you should check out a game you can't. Hehehe.

Anyway,

I kind of agree with No Respite regarding 7/10. Though would maybe say 8/10. The game has a lot of polish but just fails in the grand scheme to become anything more than "Another Call of Duty".

-Matt

p.s. Negatively rating posts? You mean post, singular. The one where you equated Nazis and Germans.

Last edited Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 6:54pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 6:48pm

Post 124 of 231

No Respite Productions

Force: 985 | Joined: 4th Dec 2006 | Posts: 482

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Absolutely, I think 8/10 if you've got the time, the connection and the interest to completely blast away at the multiplayer... that's where this picks up most of the points.

I think this game may have been a little too over hyped, and expectations set too high by myself and many others. Not that IW couldn't have pushed the boat out a little more (their pricing of the game still has me vexed).

But yep, another year, another Call of Duty.

P.S. As a total aside... does anyone not get fed up of the various player characters getting knocked over and blacking out on almost every level?

P.P.S I've pretty much raised my initial score by two points over two posts... I'll be giving it a 12/10 at this rate.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 6:53pm

Post 125 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Yeah, my character seemed to always be falling off something to be caught by a team mate (which granted, is cleverly twisted) or blacking out - Though I think one case of blacking out is actually the story doing something odd, as the time before you blackout replays sans blackout later.

I'm confusing myself now.

-Matt
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 7:07pm

Post 126 of 231

Fill

Force: 1257 | Joined: 1st Jul 2005 | Posts: 1652

CompositeLab Lite User EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Wes the fxhome dude wrote:

I think atom is right. Everyone, Including Rich and me have a right to our own opinions, without, a forum moderator at that, calling people names, negativly rating posts, and debunking everything he says.
No. You f-cked up a history reference, and it can be taken very offensively. An equivalent statement is calling all Muslims terrorists. Seriously. You should consider taking a world history course.

So- if I was German, and you labelled me a Nazi- I would definitely call you a dumbass, negatively rate your post, and angrily debunk everything you said. Hybrid's "attacks" on you are at least logically understandable; I don't think your ignorance counts the same.

(Hybrid, thank you for not judging all Americans because of one's statements smile)
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 7:57pm

Post 127 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

DID I SAY ALL GERMANS WERE NAZI???? No I didn't! I said alot of them were, which is true. I have a german heritage as well. Wile I understand u have a different opinion on the issue than I do, does that mean you have to call me a stupid infant? (U said that before germans came up). I have checked out the game. I watched a ton of gameplay videos, read reviews etc. I think I have a right to state my opinion.
WW2 was a long time ago. I didn't call u a nazi and you aren't. But lets face the truth. 18.2 million germans served in the military. Not to mention the Holocaust. Do u feel like you have to make sure that no one ever disagrees with you? People have different opinions some times, live with it.
On the other hand fill I did mess that one up. I edited it out, my bad. But H-H was calling me names, etc. way before that.

Last edited Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 8:16pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 8:16pm

Post 128 of 231

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +2

Wes, what people are trying to tell you is that somethings are not opinion, they are fact. I don't know where you learned that in debate you can always hide behind the "in my opinion" veil, but it's wrong. I can't say that it is my opinion that a Fiat is faster than a Lamborghini. It's not.

Secondly the Nazi period is a very touchy subject in Germany. Do you know who suffers worst after a war? The loser. I'm not in any way excusing what the Nazis did, but trust me, Germans have been made to suffer for that stain on their history way after the last Nazi was admitted to an old peoples home (all the Germans I have met in person were generally more polite and warm than the Norwegians I met every day, and they were definitely not Nazis). And there are a lot of shades of gray to being a soldier in Germany in the 40s. Some people didn't want to follow Hitler, but didn't want their families to be murdered in their sleep by his secret police, so they went along. I mean even watching Schindler's List might give you an idea of how hard is was even for a wealthy German man to stand up for the Jews.

In any case the point is that you can't expect people not to get pissed when you throw out wild, misinformed, generalizations left and right in an international, multicultural forum. Also you didn't acknowledge that there are very few Nazis left now and that Germany is now an ally, whose people help the world with their knack for science and cars (I apologize in advance for this generalization, but at least it's positive).
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 8:31pm

Post 129 of 231

No Respite Productions

Force: 985 | Joined: 4th Dec 2006 | Posts: 482

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

+1 Staff only.

This is quite amusing as I'm heading to Berlin tomorrow for a few days. Can't wait as I've been told the German people are very welcoming and friendly.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 8:32pm

Post 130 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I realize Nazism was a dark for germany. I don't belive that every german gave his mind over to hilter and went out to murder millions. I agree that many germans are in no way shape or form nazis anymore.
But I did make mistake and apologize for it. I'll be sure to check sources next time and am sorry for offending anyone.
Who says we leave it at that?
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 8:38pm

Post 131 of 231

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I think we'll all leave it at that, I just doubt you will.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 8:55pm

Post 132 of 231

Terminal Velocity

Force: 2507 | Joined: 7th Apr 2008 | Posts: 1350

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Atom wrote:

What Wes is saying is completely idiotic and nonsensical most of the time, yeah I'll give you that, and him and Richard are both too young to either understand or posit a completely realized point on these games I think; yeah as well. But I still don't know who you think you are these days Hybrid.
That burns Atom. Burns me RITE HERE.
Mostly because I wasn't trying to explain my viewpoint on any game, but trying to call to attention that Wes and H-H were looking at games from different viewpoints. I didn't try to say any game was bad or good. (I used GoW and GTA as examples because I didn't have any other games in mind at the moment and wasn't going to sit here thinking of the perfect game to use as an example.) I wanted to clear up the argument. Not noticing this makes me think you didn't read the post in its entirety or try to comprehend it.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 9:17pm

Post 133 of 231

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Look back at what I wrote, Richard. I chose my words very carefully there; because I'm not one to join in on the 'well we're older and you're just kids' argument- I resist it a lot of the time.

What I'm saying here is, as the rating label dictates, you really are just too young to be experiencing that kind of stuff. Not that you don't 'get' or 'understand' it, I'm not going to discount your comprehension or intellect like that- but that you aren't old enough to posit a fully realized opinion. 'Fully realized' being the key words there. It didn't matter what you were saying or which side you were taking, it was the way you were saying it.

I think, like we all did when we were your age, myself especially, that you've got the intellect to talk about what you're talking about, but not the experience and age. Some of this has to do with maturity, most of it just comes as you get older.

I'm not trying to play the elder here, I'm only 20 myself- but I was once 13-14 years old and I can tell you there's a big difference between the ages. I hate to do as many have done to me, but:

You'll see when you get older.

Last edited Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 9:19pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 9:17pm

Post 134 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Yeah, I thought Richard III's posts were alright. His point that (in summary) games are not as frequently intelligent portrayals of story as they are basic shooters which centralise around violence or violent concepts was totally valid.

-Matt
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 9:20pm

Post 135 of 231

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Like I said, I'm not discounting their validity- they are points I generally agree with- just saying they aren't fully realized; partly because of his age and what he's seeing in games geared towards, well, older individuals. I used to argue both ways for GTA when I was his age, and in retrospect I feel like I just should've stayed outta it- partly because I shouldn't have been playing the game to begin with at that age, partly because I really didn't know what I was talking about entirely. I did a little bit, yeah, I could develop an opinion- but I didn't really know.

Hopefully I've made my statements thus far clear enough, I'm not trying to attack him on the basis of seniority here- nor lump his points in with that of Wes.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 9:41pm

Post 136 of 231

Terminal Velocity

Force: 2507 | Joined: 7th Apr 2008 | Posts: 1350

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Atom wrote:

him and Richard are both too young to either understand or posit a completely realized point on these games I think

Atom wrote:

Not that you don't 'get' or 'understand' it
wink
But I get your point and I got your point then; that's why I intentionally misspelled to convey that I wasn't actually upset.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 11:19pm

Post 137 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I know I'm late, but it's just too hard not to comment. I know he said "let's leave it at that", but come on, that's the easy way out.

I don't have a problem with anything Rich III has said, but damn... Wes must have some pretty xenophobic, highly religious parents, because... damn... That kid is messed up. Not in the psycho killer way, but the "I'm 14 and my dad days Europeans are Nazis and communists, and Muslims are terrorists and they all need to die for what they did to us on 9/11!! 'Merica!" way.

And all the "I never said [insert ignorance], what I said was [insert ignorance]" Damn, kid. Sorry to hear about your years of therapy in the future.

Carry on.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 11:41pm

Post 138 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

My dad never said any of those things, just history.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 11:45pm

Post 139 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

And there we have it. Thank you. you're a f*cking idiot.

Oh, and (apologies in advance if this blows your little mind) there are American Nazis, communists, and terrorists as well. I know, how can that be? Americans love peace and freedom and Jesus! But anyway, now you can feel good about killing them in video games as well, since they are just as evil as everyone else. History told me so.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 12:40am

Post 140 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Well at the same time, you gotta remember what being 14 is like. At that age, myself and pretty much everyone I know used to just take what our parents and our social circle believed, and assume it was truth. With this new feeling of superiority, and the knowledge that you know the real truth and that somehow this truth has eluded everyone else in the world (take note that every 14-year-old's "truth" is different from the next), you may now face the harsh, harsh place that is High School.

Only once you get out of there and into college and start being forced to read and educate yourself do you start forming your own opinion and realizing what a douche you've been all these years.

Of course, this second step takes place much, much earlier if you've got some of those weird, crazy liberal parents that promote critical thinking and education.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 12:51am

Post 141 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Pooky wrote:


Of course, this second step takes place much, much earlier if you've got some of those weird, crazy liberal parents that promote critical thinking and education.
My parents are actually very [edited for clarity, and because people take things the wrong way] conservative, but even at 14 I didn't spout off ignorant nonsense like our friend Wes here. Sure I listened to my parents opinions, as everyone does, but it didn't take long for that to pass, and I was actually paying attention in 7th and 8th grade history classes... It doesn't take crazy liberal parents for a 14 year old not to be completely ignorant. I sure as hell didn't believe that all Europeans are Nazis and communists when I was that age, and that's from being taught in school and having parents who actually know a thing or two.

It's a pretty sad state of affairs if you can't expect a 14 year old to know stuff like this. A 10 or 11 year old? Sure, that's different. But pooky, I remember when you were 14, and you were far more intelligent acting than Wes back then. But maybe that's because you're Canadian. Or maybe I'm remembering wrong. *shrug*

I would say I'm sure he'll snap out of it eventually, but I have my doubts. wink

What state do you live in, Wes?

Last edited Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 2:39am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 1:15am

Post 142 of 231

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Hey now, Aculag. Cut- cut that out.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 1:21am

Post 143 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Hey, I made an honest mistake (Typo to be exact). I apologized for it. Let it go. (for the 5th time) I know that all germans are not nazis. And I am known for being the person in my family who likes to make his own decisions and opinions. Does the evidence say otherwise?
And Pooky, I am in high school.
Pennsylvania, Acu.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 1:41am

Post 144 of 231

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Why does it matter what state he's in? So if he's from the Midwest or South you can generalize him on the basis of religion?

The prejudice, xenophobia and cultural generalizations you accuse him of are really no worse than what you're hinting at; which is his inclusion in a stereotyped group of deeply religious, deeply conservative Americans. That's the biggest issue with most liberal bullsh!t - it occludes traditional liberalism by making everything a "no, let me open your eyes to how ignorant you are! I've seen the light!" issue when it isn't.

Being Texan, I have an inordinate amount of pride for my state, and I use the term "y'all", so those are things I'm culturally guilty of - but short of that, my state has little bearing on who I am. Yes, I'm a confirmed Christian. And yes, this has weight in my views of life. But that doesn't change my critical thinking skills or tarnish my ability to reason through logic. In fact, I think it supports it.

Is everyone like me? No, there are ignorant people out there. Really, though, some people just have to learn, like we all do. And even then, 'learning' these 'tenets of life' that we're all speaking of happens in different ways and with different things. For many it's a rejection of religion that allows them to have the ether removed from their eyes. For me, and probably Wes in the future, it's something else.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 2:37am

Post 145 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Not because of religion. I asked what state he's in because certain states have sh*ttier educational systems than others, as you well know. As well, some states have crazier religious types than others, but that isn't why I asked.

I'm not generalizing, I'm talking directly about Wes, and comparing him to my own upbringing. I was a conservative christian for half my life, I know what it's like, and I know what a lot (not all) christians are like. I was pointing out that my parents were christians not to say they're ignorant, or to generalize, but to say that they were very conservative, and not crazy liberals, like Pooky mentioned. I love how you guys can get on each other for pages at a time about being wrong about some trivial thing, but HE WHO SPEAKETH ILL OF RELIGION is instantly the bad guy. rolleyes Didn't realize I was in church, here. Sorry.

And who's this Aculag guy? I am definitely NOT Aculag.

Last edited Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 2:44am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 2:38am

Post 146 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

An excellent point Ben +1

Last edited Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 2:45am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 2:44am

Post 147 of 231

Terminal Velocity

Force: 2507 | Joined: 7th Apr 2008 | Posts: 1350

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Knowing some of the kids in my school, I'm not exactly surprised at Wes' generalizations. Russkies and Germans=evil, Americans=upholders of the land of the free & home of the brave. This does partially come back to video games, as this how said nationalities are often displayed. I agree that he's incorrect; however, you should give him a leetle bit of latitude. Comprendas?
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 2:46am

Post 148 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Heh, trust me, I could get a lot worse. He's definitely got a little latitude.

But seriously, kids in your school think Russians and Germans are evil? What is this, the 50s?
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 2:47am

Post 149 of 231

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Are Russians still not evil now? I mean, let's be honest. wink
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 2:50am

Post 150 of 231

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Definitely NOT Aculag wrote:

HE WHO SPEAKETH ILL OF RELIGION is instantly the bad guy. rolleyes Didn't realize I was in church, here. Sorry.
It's because to those who practice religion, it's their entire reason for living. If that doesn't make sense to you, then maybe that gives credence to why it's something you no longer follow. I've said this before, you broach religion and the people on the non-believing side won't understand the obstinacy from the other side simply because it's the most pure, most dire conviction members of religion hold; or, at least, should hold if they're actually followers.

That aside, I apologize for misunderstanding you.

Last edited Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 2:51am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 2:50am

Post 151 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I think we all know that the only true evil that remain are the Irish. Smug bastards, with their piles of gold and their lucky charms...

ben3308 wrote:

I've said this before, you broach religion and the people on the non-believing side won't understand the obstinacy from the other side simply because it's the most pure, most dire conviction members of religion hold; or, at least, should hold if they're actually followers.
Of course. That doesn't mean the non-believers can't as well be obstinate. As an atheist, I am bombarded by people trying to convince me how wrong I am. I have never tried to change a Christian's mind about being Christian, and I never will, because that's who they are, but Christians will try and have tried to change mine, and they will for the rest of my life.

We're all entitled to our own beliefs, I guess we just won't discuss them here. smile
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:03am

Post 152 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

My views aren't that that narrow. The trail of tears shows that the U.S. government isn't infallible. Not to mention the afghan freedom fighters. And staff only made a good point. Many germans today were in no way involved in the Holocaust, etc. American media and game go the other way though and, in my view, keep the issue going.
And about religion Aculag, at least respect others peoples views. I've noticed that u like to speak out against it in the forum. Alot of people have found fulfillment through religion. Fufillment they couldn't find in games, films, money........
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:07am

Post 153 of 231

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I think, though, and I won't go further into this past this, but that the atheist changing Christian's beliefs versus Christian changing atheist's belief is that one is- again like Ben said if they are a true follower- out of trying to offer salvation, not persuasion or manipulation.

Obviously you can disagree that there is such a thing, and I'm sure there are plenty of people that don't talking to you about it because of that but rather because of spite; but the ultimate us-versus-them game of changing beliefs is down to trying to help a person, not just tell them they're wrong.

At least, that's how it's supposed to be.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:10am

Post 154 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Right, I know. And again, I was one of them for half my life. I understand the reasoning behind it completely. As a kid, I would cry if I thought my friends would go to Hell... But again, I'm not going to ask any Christians to stop doing that, because that's who they are. If I've chosen not to want salvation, that ought to be my decision, and not theirs. I don't want their help, and I think it's just as bad for a Christian to try and push salvation on an atheist as it would be for an atheist to push non-belief on a Christian. That's just on societal level, I feel the same way about anyone trying to push anything on anyone. But of course I understand why they do it.

Wes the fxhome dude wrote:

And staff only made a good point. Many germans today were in no way involved in the Holocaust, etc.
Many Germans then were in no way involved with it...
And about religion Aculag, at least respect others peoples views. I've noticed that u like to speak out against it in the forum.
Please. rolleyes Of course I respect other people's views. I'm never outright bashing religion (not in the forums anyway), and I seem to recall you thinking I made an excellent point about the meaning of Easter (a purely Christian matter) in the Thanksgiving thread... I can speak my mind and be respectful. I've seen it from both sides. My posts are always a bit harsh anyway, even if they aren't discussing heavy subjects. Feel free to give me some more -1s if it'll make you feel better.

Last edited Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:22am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:21am

Post 155 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I didn't give u the -1 because i disagree. You insulted me, my father, my education, not to mention swearing. I felt you deserved it.
On another note, you believe everything (evolution)was an accident? ATP, chloroplast, photosynthesis?

Last edited Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:31am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:21am

Post 156 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

@Aculag - Yeah, I actually changed from Born-again christian to Agnostic around 12, and have been fascinated by history, politics and so on since forever. My parents are also very conservative in Canadian terms. Canada probably has a lot to do with it.

Wes - WWII is one of the periods of human history I find the most interesting, so let me explain the whole Nazi vs German thing for you, just so we're all on the same page. In 1939, Hitler was leader of the Nazi party, which is exactly the same type of party as Republicans and Democrats and Libertarians and so on. Germany was going through unbelievably difficult times, and ended up trusting his promises of prosperity and elected him. Hitler then declared himself Fuhrer and went on to all the WWII stuff. But not every German agreed with what was going on, much like not every American is an extremist Neo-Conservative Republican and not every American agrees with the Iraq war. It only appears so if you're 50 years later and only know the basic facts.

Saying every German is a Nazi is thus as dumb and offensive as me saying every American is an abortion doctor-killing redneck.

ALSO, this thread is becoming about religion so it'll probably get locked (shame). So I might as well get this in: you are not allowed to tell people to respect your religion if you do not respect theirs. Atheists generally like to call out religious people on their contradictions and the supposed silliness of their beliefs, whereas religious people generally like to call out Atheists on their lack of moral judgement and non-adherence to the supposed laws of the universe. Both are convinced that the other is a fool that does not know everything there is to know.

Therefore, if you take offence when someone says religion is silly, you should remember that you hold feelings and judgements that are just as bad about theirs. Seriously, I'm Agnostic and I don't act any worse than you guys do.

Last edited Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:32am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:24am

Post 157 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Pooky wrote:

Saying every German is a Nazi is thus as dumb and offensive as me saying every American is an abortion doctor-killing redneck.
Lemme say it once more. I apologized. I messed up, didn't check my sources, and am sorry for offending anyone. At the spur of the moment I put that in there. And i said that most germans now are not associated with Nazism.
Plus I got a 94% in history so far this year...smile
EDIT: The irony of it, just doing a WWI assignment now...
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:31am

Post 158 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

I think it might have to do with your choice of words, too. It's not "most germans aren't Nazis anymore", it's "nearly every German for decades has been fervently against Nazism".

Oh yeah, also, if you believe that the alternative to creationism is "it all just happened by luck", you do not know anything about Evolution, Biology, Geology, Physics and Chemistry. It is not luck. If you're strong enough, I suggest you go and read proper books on the subject that challenge your beliefs, if only to reinforce your beliefs with proper arguments.

Last edited Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:34am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:32am

Post 159 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

^^^ And if you're looking for something "simple" to start with, go for The Origin of Species, or The Selfish Gene. Is there an Evolutionary Biology For Dummies? wink

Wes the fxhome dude wrote:

On another note, you believe everything (evolution)was an accident? ATP, chloroplast, photosynthesis?
Oh, god... please, no... This line of questioning can only end in disaster. I would try to state my point and you just will not accept it.

I'll just say this: No, I don't believe everything was an "accident". It all happened because of a long series of reasons. But I do not believe any of those reasons to be supernatural in origin. Once you've studied up on the subject more, then we can have this conversation. It won't do any good right now.

Also, what do you mean ATP? You're talking about nucleotides now?

Last edited Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:42am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:38am

Post 160 of 231

Terminal Velocity

Force: 2507 | Joined: 7th Apr 2008 | Posts: 1350

VisionLab User FXpreset Maker Windows User

Gold Member

This horse is either dead or coughing out its flattened bowels at the moment. It's becoming a more personal, belief vs. belief fight, which, incidentally, doesn't have much to do with the game itself. Since this is a cool topic, I don't want to see it locked.

BUT U GUYZ ARE ALL IDIOTS AND IM RITE AND YOU DONT KNOW EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW

Had to do it.
Can we haul this topic out of the mud, or at least use PMs to fight with each other?
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:39am

Post 161 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Richard MMIX? The King is dead! Long live the King!
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:41am

Post 162 of 231

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

BLAM BLAM BLAM!

Videogames are fun!!!1111!!! Remember? That's what this thread is, you know, about...
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:44am

Post 163 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I thought it was about modern warfare. I hear they're going to use microwave cannons in the future to fight, and it'll all be robots fighting against other robots, controlled by dudes in air conditioned buildings. WW3 is gonna be BADICAL!!!!!11 can't wait lol
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 5:00am

Post 164 of 231

Thrawn

Force: 1995 | Joined: 11th Aug 2006 | Posts: 1962

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Oooooooo, RELIGION???? Always looking for a few more -1's. wink But really, Wes, while I agree with your perspective, you're really not debating in the proper way, or with the proper information. In fact, your sort of coming across as a bit of a clueless ass, which is sort of what turns most people off to christian beliefs in the first place.

In addition, despite my avid interest in forcing my religion and political views upon other members of the forum, let's remember the rules about this sort of stuff.

If you want to get slaughtered in an argument, do it over PM's.

Anyways, back to COD.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 7:32am

Post 165 of 231

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

It's times like these I think we need to remember that some places in the world they don't have berries, nigga.

Nigga, BERRIES nigga.


And I think we all need to be grateful that we have those, and the ability to not worry about such pressing matters that we have the time to get into these frivolously sordid debacles.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 7:50am

Post 166 of 231

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Rating: +1

but that the atheist changing Christian's beliefs versus Christian changing atheist's belief is that one is- again like Ben said if they are a true follower- out of trying to offer salvation, not persuasion or manipulation.
Just HAVE to respond to that...

To immediately assume atheists only want to manipulate or persuade is, apart from being insulting, just wrong.
Many atheists, including myself, try to offer salvation too, in their minds, in their view. Try to save mankind from what they perceive as an age old, misguided, wrong and very dangerous thing that has long surpassed it's usefulness and is only a break in the development of the whole human race and actually stands in the way of mankinds way to being better - DESPITE the fact it's perceived differently for those who follow it.

So in an ironic kind of way, both sides often, not always, actually try to offer HELP to the other. And also ironically, both see salvation in what they follow.

Just a note for those who have the ability to change perspective.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 7:59am

Post 167 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Amen! This is meant to be ironic.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 8:19am

Post 168 of 231

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

I think you completelty misread what I was saying; though perhaps it was the way I worded it.

I'm not 'assuming' anything about atheists in my previous post as it was entirely directed towards how people perceive Christians and how many (I'd say 'bad') Christians are- which is on occasion manipulative/dangerously persuasive. Not atheists, Christians. (although obviously the opposite, too, could be argued)

What I'm trying to put out here is that, for Christians 'converting' atheists it isn't always a matter of doing so for manipulation or persuasion or to 'prove non-believers wrong'- it isn't always a pesuasion for the sake of it as it sadly often is and as many atheists see it (understandably) as- but sometimes and in some cases an effort, based on a belief, that you are actively helping that person by trying to convert them. This all, of course, just opinion and not a universal belief- but it wasn't something I was tagging to either atheists or Christians.

I was just saying there's another fold to the Christian motive that wasn't mentioned- not that it is or ever will be the case here. Or that there isn't a validity to atheists trying to disprove religion in order to help people.

I was just following up on Aculag's notion, it isn't always a persuasion based on spite. On either end; and there's an irony to that. Although it seems you tackled the thesis of my follow-up post simply by responding to what I said the wrong way.

Last edited Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 8:26am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 8:25am

Post 169 of 231

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Ah, I'm sorry. I have indeed misread you then. I thought it suggested a n inherital difference in christian and atheist motives.

I can totally see where that's coming from. And, to be honest, that's why I always positively welcome the religious debate - if even not in here, since it's prohibited, but everywhere else.
Apart from it often being very interesting and thought-provoking (I have studied theology for a semester after all), I will surely hope that someone who believes I will go to hell WILL try to save me from it and not just leave it at that. I would do the same.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 8:28am

Post 170 of 231

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Sollthar wrote:

I will surely hope that someone who believes I will go to hell WILL try to save me from it and not just leave it at that. I would do the same.
Yeah, that's exactly my point. It may sound condescending and I entirely don't intend it to be, but as a Christian I'd fully intend to try and help my friend keep from going to hell by offering him/her info on religion because I care for him/her; not because I spite him/her opposing beliefs. It's a loving thing, sometimes, and like you said I'd expect, hope, and appreciate the same from someone with an opposing but equally alluring belief.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 8:35am

Post 171 of 231

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Totally understood and even appreciated.
The irony lies in the fact that, many atheists have the exact same reasoning. They see people who need help in a way they don't seem to understand, yet.

But I guess these are some of the forces that make the world spin.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 9:32am

Post 172 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

I love that all this detailed discussion has come out of such a popcorn and throwaway game series as Call of Duty. smile
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 9:50am

Post 173 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Whatever man, Modern Warfare 2 is like DEEP, man... I mean it's like, making a point about humanity and stuff... man... *smokes bong, shoots Russians*
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 1:10pm

Post 174 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

On that note Tarn, yea, it is kinda funny. A comment turned into the moral debate behind gunning civilians down, which turned to Germans, and then some how to atheism and beliefs. And I will always try to respect others peoples beliefs.
But since this topic will get locked, is there somewhere we can continue it?
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 1:10pm

Post 175 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Rating: +1

I find down the pub usually works.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 1:16pm

Post 176 of 231

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I see no reason that this thread has to be locked. Despite some arguments, there is an interesting and mostly civil debate emerging from it.

It's closely monitored obviously, but so far, I think a lock isn't necessary in any way.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 1:18pm

Post 177 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

To go back to the main topic, here's a question: there's clearly ambiguity in the way the 'No Russian' scene in MW2 can be interpreted. Hybrid raises the point that you have the choice to not shoot.

How important do you think it is for artists (whether in games, films, novels, whatever) to make their points clear? Do you prefer it when the message is evident (even if you disagree with it), or do you prefer it when matters are left open to interpretation, even if that sometimes results in people interpreting it in strange or 'wrong' ways?
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 2:45pm

Post 178 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

I'm not sure I feel Modern Warfare 2 leaves an awful lot open to interpretation. There's just a separation between people who can intelligently dissect a scene and examine it from a narrative perspective and people like Wes who don't have a very matured understanding of how a story can be told.

Though, I do like that the option to shoot people exists - as to all extents, it makes sense for you to begrudgingly join in the carnage lest you highlight yourself as a plant and lose your life. I wouldn't say it is particularly ambiguous in terms of its message though. With games or any art I don't feel there's any necessity for clarity - it's up to us as an audience to read meaning into something. Dragon Age is an interesting game regarding morals - with no good/evil scale but party members approving or disapproving of your actions.

There's absolutely plenty space for both, so I can't argue one over the other. A well directed and controlled story (even if you may disagree with it) can evoke as much thought as a story which leaves a lot open to interpretation. Games and Films can also be utterly pointless provided they're fun to experience. Can't help but mention that I feel people who would argue that all stories and art should have a clear message are just idiots afraid to use their brains or jealous of people who do.

-Matt
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:00pm

Post 179 of 231

Orin Warren

Force: 658 | Joined: 2nd Oct 2006 | Posts: 461

Windows User

Member

I agree with Hybrid,
Art is open to interpretation. An example is when a poet writes a poem. it may tell a simple or confusing story but it has a hidden meaning that the poet only knows. He hopes that people will be able to interpret it. I find that people you love art are in awe of the meaning that is hidden with the artwork wither its a story or in this case a video game. Infantry Ward was trying to give a good story as well a great game. I believe if we didn't get the, "No Russian" mission or just skipped it then we would of missed out on a huge piece of the story and I mean huge. this level is the catalysis for war.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:03pm

Post 180 of 231

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Tarn wrote:

Do you prefer it when the message is evident (even if you disagree with it), or do you prefer it when matters are left open to interpretation, even if that sometimes results in people interpreting it in strange or 'wrong' ways?
Personally I prefer that it leans towards evident. They can make it hard to find, so that you can work a little and watch/read it over a few times to find it, but I believe the kind of art I like always has a "correct" interpretation and that the correct one is the interpretation of the author/artist. Then again I'm more into figuring out what is canon in everything from Star Wars and Harry Potter to Memento and The Prestige, than to try and find the meaning behind it. In LotR they helpfully released a Middle Earth book that explains a lot. Nolan said that all the answers to Memento are in the film if only you look hard enough. The Wachowski Brothers won't tell us what the heck Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions were about (I think because it was a bunch of brainless neo-philosophical gibberish), and I think that is the wrong way to do it.

I had a long talk with my teacher about this a year ago. She thought the text itself decided what was right and wrong, and that you could find all the evidence there. I told her the evidence is in the authors head and might be disclosed in sequels/interviews if they wish. She said that is wrong "because they might not have thought of that when they wrote the original text" (so yes, by her logic Leia is not Luke's sister in A New Hope). I told her how "Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings have been corrected for continuity mistakes (in later editions) that fans have found, does that mean that the mistakes are canon to you?" We never came to an agreement.

In any case when it comes to Avatar's environmental message I hope it's really subtle and that when we see the sorry state that Earth is in (I have seen pics of Earth in Avatar and it looks like Blade Runner 2009 edition) some people might side with Quaritch even if the film sides with the Na'vi.

In closing I believe art in an invitation to see the authors universe from his/her eyes. Not an invitation to see their work in a way it wasn't meant by them to be seen. In that respect I support Lucas' tampering with Star Wars if only because I would have done the same in his stead. This also reminds me of the right-wing propaganda people see in Forrest Gump that Zemeckis and Hanks say isn't there. I could have a really long discussion about this, and it's hard to put it all into a post. Oh and I do realize that I failed to properly address meaning in this post. Quickly: I think it shouldn't beat you over the head, but if the meaning is all the film/book/game has (i.e. no entertainment value) I would have told the author to make sure people got it right, but didn't feel spoon-fed.

Conclusion: don't be obvious, be subtly manipulative.
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 3:11pm

Post 181 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Yeah, the No Russian Mission adds depth to some of the later levels. Some of the scenes of destruction and total chaos now have an "Oh god!" effect rather than a patriotic "Damn those Russians!" attitude and I think this is because on some degree - the Americans brought it upon themselves by allowing the atrocity to happen to benefit their own intelligence rather than reach out and try to help the Russians.

...Which is a bit of assuming. There is some interesting stuff as to the consequences of the end of Call of Duty 4 too. Infinity Ward have obviously made an effort to put a lot of story into the game, and looking back I have to admit - there's enough there to make it stand alongside Call of Duty 4. Some genuine shocks, unexpected excitement and ultimately, revenge which all feel as they should.

If you don't consider any of this and just play through it as a bog standard shooter then you'd be missing out. The same goes for Half Life 2, a game which centralizes the player on relatively simple events but is always part of something bigger which is omnipresent in the games environment. The Portal Storms and Combine invasion are never spelled out for us but evidence of their occurrence exists if you look for it - Small references in dialogue, newspaper headlines that blow about.

*breathes*
-Matt

p.s. regarding modern teenage gamers, this has to be the funniest article I've ever read : http://www.cracked.com/blog/revisiting-old-school-text-adventures-as-a-jaded-modern-gamer/
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 4:18pm

Post 182 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Staff Only wrote:

In closing I believe art in an invitation to see the authors universe from his/her eyes. Not an invitation to see their work in a way it wasn't meant by them to be seen. In that respect I support Lucas' tampering with Star Wars if only because I would have done the same in his stead. This also reminds me of the right-wing propaganda people see in Forrest Gump that Zemeckis and Hanks say isn't there.
That brings up another interesting debate: what if their is inherent meaning in something which the authors didn't intend, but which is nevertheless there? That would rather counter your idea that the core meaning is the author's and nothing else. What if the author includes something out of ignorance, as may or may not be the case with Forrest Gump - they might not have meant to include a right wing, conservative vision of morality, but does it matter if that's what they nevertheless ended up actually doing?
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 4:35pm

Post 183 of 231

Mellifluous

Force: 5604 | Joined: 6th Oct 2002 | Posts: 3782

EffectsLab Pro User Windows User

Gold Member

Don't think it matters. Someone's interpretation of something may not be true according to the intentions of the creator, but that doesn't mean the interpretation isn't valid. When we see/play/read something we all bring our own experience and way we view the world to them; any meaning we get is through these. Plus, any unintentional interpretations could still be rooted in the creator's subconscious razz
Posted: Wed, 2nd Dec 2009, 7:24pm

Post 184 of 231

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Tarn wrote:

but does it matter if that's what they nevertheless ended up actually doing?
That is certainly the best counter argument to my theory I've ever seen. First of all: I don't know. I would say that one could say that Forrest Gump has a right wing message, but the creators are still free to say that you shouldn't look at it that way.

I just want to add that I don't believe I am any more correct here than anyone else. My previous post was simply one way I normally look at it. I should also say that I am particularly bad at noticing deeper meaning in texts, films etc., but quite gifted at picking up the solid universe the fiction takes place in and its rules and facts. This might have had something to do with my ideas. For instance I didn't notice a thing the first time I saw Forrest Gump even though on second viewings it was practically staring my in the face.

What you say does touch upon what my teacher said: that the author might not know everything about their own text. In the end I think I might keep to my point of view and say that in the case of Gump I'll continue thinking of it in the Zemeckis/Hanks way.
Posted: Thu, 3rd Dec 2009, 3:45am

Post 185 of 231

FreshMentos

Force: 1667 | Joined: 10th Jun 2006 | Posts: 1141

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

To all of those who do not have have me on their friends list, add me. I'm FreshMentos2
Posted: Thu, 3rd Dec 2009, 8:05am

Post 186 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

I think another good example of the accidental message thing is Pulp Fiction. The whole theory about the suitcase containing Marsellus's soul, with all the little references to it was entirely accidental and everything is just a coincidence or a "Meh, we just felt like doing it like that" type of thing. But in the end, the explanation is so perfect that I'd rather just see the movie that way.
Posted: Thu, 3rd Dec 2009, 10:40am

Post 187 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Pooky wrote:

I think another good example of the accidental message thing is Pulp Fiction. The whole theory about the suitcase containing Marsellus's soul, with all the little references to it was entirely accidental and everything is just a coincidence or a "Meh, we just felt like doing it like that" type of thing. But in the end, the explanation is so perfect that I'd rather just see the movie that way.
I was going to mention this, good example - though a lot of theories say it's Marsellus's soul, it would also make total sense for it to be something shiny which marsellus highly values.

Just a note - I hated Forrest Gump, even from first watch on the basis that a vicarious drug addled women settles for a retard after he earns a lot of money, before which he was just a hindrance to her life.

I also think the best accidental message ever is a mixture of Scarface and Goodfellas - I watched both as character stories as to how mobster attitudes and drugs destroy everything you love and yet they've inspired generations of morons who instead, idolize the ideals.

-Matt
Posted: Thu, 3rd Dec 2009, 10:53am

Post 188 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Yeah, Scarface is an odd one. It seemed very clearly to show the horrors of such a lifestyle, so the gangsta worshipping of it as some kind of bible for life is deeply bizarre.

Fight Club's also an interesting one - a lot of people take it to be entirely anti-society and anarchic, completely missing the last third of the film/novel, which specifically unravels the myth of Tyler Durden as being a load of arse.
Posted: Fri, 4th Dec 2009, 2:57am

Post 189 of 231

jmax

Force: 260 | Joined: 17th May 2006 | Posts: 671

MacOS User

Member

Most cinematic gameplay ever.
I feel like we've completely missed the best part of the game. It's made by action movie nerds for action movie nerds. Every frame of this game is packed with easter eggs and homages to the great or even the ridiculous war movies of the '80s and '90s.

Here are some of the movie references I spotted:

The Rock-
The entire damn gulag level. Shower room set is recreated down to ambush from the upper level and unusual swoopy girders. Then you go down through the hole that Connery and Cage wait underneath in the film. You slide down through the sewer system just as Nick Cage does before admitting he's a chemical weapons specialist. "I haven't go my glasses." "What it says chemical weapons specialist." Perhaps the best in joke here is that you survive the shower room, a subtle shot to the infamous "the shower scene was survivable" debate. However much you may think Michael Bay sucks, with Hansleigh and QT rewrites the script, The Rock is a damn slick action movie.

Platoon-
A random Army Ranger dies in a D.C. air strike in a way that emulates the iconic Platoon kneeling image.

Red Dawn-
Red Dawn gets a lot of shout-outs in the D.C. levels, particularly with some of the parachuting images.

On Deadly Ground-
Some parts of the oil rig level.

Those are all the ones I remember for now, but there are definitely more. Anyone else have a favorite Modern Warfare 2 movie reference?
Posted: Mon, 7th Dec 2009, 9:30pm

Post 190 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Pooky wrote:

There's a "content filter" mode that you can turn on at the beginning of the game. Basically, it censors a bunch of stuff, including that mission.
Out of curiosty how much does it censor?
Posted: Mon, 7th Dec 2009, 10:09pm

Post 191 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Too much. razz
Posted: Mon, 7th Dec 2009, 10:30pm

Post 192 of 231

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Does strawberry jam still cover the screen when you get shot?
Posted: Mon, 7th Dec 2009, 10:34pm

Post 193 of 231

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Rating: +1

It's all paintballs.
Posted: Mon, 7th Dec 2009, 11:16pm

Post 194 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Wes the fxhome dude wrote:

Pooky wrote:

There's a "content filter" mode that you can turn on at the beginning of the game. Basically, it censors a bunch of stuff, including that mission.
Out of curiosty how much does it censor?
It removes it completely, you never play the level.
Posted: Tue, 8th Dec 2009, 11:25am

Post 195 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

They should have kept it, but replaced the civilians with aliens. Or zombies.
Posted: Tue, 8th Dec 2009, 12:38pm

Post 196 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Tarn wrote:

They should have kept it, but replaced the civilians with aliens. Or zombies.
Or Russians... Wait!
Posted: Tue, 8th Dec 2009, 1:05pm

Post 197 of 231

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Oh, oh! I forgot Nazis!
Posted: Tue, 8th Dec 2009, 1:48pm

Post 198 of 231

Hybrid-Halo

Force: 9315 | Joined: 7th Feb 2003 | Posts: 3367

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Tarn wrote:

Oh, oh! I forgot Nazis!
I think you'll find that regular ol' Germans would suffice!
Posted: Tue, 8th Dec 2009, 2:13pm

Post 199 of 231

Fxhome Dude

Force: 996 | Joined: 1st Jun 2009 | Posts: 927

CompositeLab Pro User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

hahahahah....
Now have we all had a laugh at my expense?

Last edited Tue, 8th Dec 2009, 11:06pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 8th Dec 2009, 3:17pm

Post 200 of 231

Staff Only

Force: 1805 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2005 | Posts: 1232

VisionLab User MacOS User

Gold Member

Wes the fxhome dude wrote:

Disclaimer: Aside from Germans all of the groups would have at one time in history or another (excluding the undead) decapitated your family, made us into slaves, and turn America/France/UK into a graveyard....
Um, huh?

Page 1 of 2: 1, 2 | Next