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Exported movie looks wavy when burnt to DVD.

Posted: Thu, 19th Nov 2009, 7:39pm

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Jedi77

Force: 400 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 5

EffectsLab Pro User MacOS User

Gold Member

I am having a huge problem with my end result DVD looking awful. It is actually unwatchable, without getting sick. I am posting here because EffectsLab is the only new step in my workflow. I have never had this type of problem, so I guess I am doing something wrong...

Here is my situation.
I filmed using Panasonic DV tape.
Imported into iMovie just to edit the footage down to usable clips.
Imported those clips into Final Cut Express to put the scene together.
Exported .mov and brought that into EffectsLab.
I added two color grade effects and one explosion, then rendered DV/NTSC.

After this step I have tried a few different options, but the result is all the same. When I take the file into iDVD and burn the DVD, I play it in a DVD player/TV (not a computer) and it looks like some "water filter?" is over the entire scene. When there is motion in the scene, you get sick watching it. It has a weird wavy movement on the screen. I would appreciate any help or thoughts on my work flow or on how I am using EffectsLab. I am stuck with this problem. Thanks for your help.
Posted: Thu, 19th Nov 2009, 8:59pm

Post 2 of 10

Axeman

Force: 17995 | Joined: 20th Jan 2002 | Posts: 6124

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SuperUser

My first guess is that you selected the wrong field order in your scan method settings. If you can post a link to a brief clip of the footage so we can see it, we may be able to offer a specific solution. Without seeing it, we will just be guessing. Does it look ok when played back on your computer, after being rendered from EffectsLab?

I would highly recommend skipping the iMovie step, and just using Final Cut to capture the clips that you want to use. Every time you add another program into the workflow, you lose quality in your footage.
Posted: Thu, 19th Nov 2009, 9:16pm

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Jedi77

Force: 400 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 5

EffectsLab Pro User MacOS User

Gold Member

Thanks Axeman,
right now I can't post a clip with the problem because the problem only happens on the final DVD when played on a DVD player/TV. The final product looks ok on a computer, but I need it to work on a DVD/TV.

When I render from EffectsLab, it has a lot of lines during movement, but when I bring it back into Final Cut, it looks great. The final export looks great. If I did not use this work flow regularly, I would think it is a burning or disk issue. But EffectsLab is the only change in my work flow. Does this help?
Posted: Fri, 20th Nov 2009, 1:17am

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Axeman

Force: 17995 | Joined: 20th Jan 2002 | Posts: 6124

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SuperUser

Well, if it plays correctly on your computer, but then doesn't play well on a dvd, I would still strongly suspect an interlacing issue. The big difference between how video is displayed on your computer vs. a TV set is the interlacing, so that would be the most likely cause. Have you tried more than one setting for the interlacing when you create an EffectsLab project? Do you know for sure if your camera is recording interlaced or progressive footage? Which Panasonic camera are you using?
Posted: Fri, 20th Nov 2009, 9:25am

Post 5 of 10

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

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FXhome Team Member

This is most likely due to a mismatch somewhere with your settings. This could be happening when you export from FC, when you set up your project in EffectsLab, or when you render from EffectsLab.

We'll need to know some more about the video footage you're using and the settings you're choosing before we can help more. As Axeman says, seeing a bit of the final rendered video would be good - it doesn't have to be the DVD copy, just the rendered movie that you put through iDVD would help
Posted: Fri, 20th Nov 2009, 4:18pm

Post 6 of 10

Jedi77

Force: 400 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 5

EffectsLab Pro User MacOS User

Gold Member

Ok, here is some info. I uploaded a 20 sec clip here:
http://www.thejoshuaschool.com/1stwavekidz/EffectLabTest.mov
Of course it looks fine, but when I burn to DVD and play on tv it looks awful.
The camera was a Panasonic DVC200. I am not sure if it is recording prog or interlaced, but I just downloaded the PDF users manuel and I am checking...
I burnt a DVD with the media just before entering EffectsLab, and it looks great on TV.
I import into EffectsLab as NTSC/DV interlaced even. I export as DV/DVCPRO NTSC interlaced.
Would any other info help?
Thanks for you time and help.

*there is no sound for the video on purpose*
Posted: Fri, 20th Nov 2009, 4:49pm

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Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

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FXhome Team Member

Downloading the clip now, thanks. To confirm, this is a clip that you've just exported out of EffectsLab, and having done anything else to it after that?

Generally speaking, if you don't know whether your camera is progressive or interlaced, it probably means it is interlaced. Progressive cameras tend to be more expensive and you usually have to manually specify it to shoot in progressive mode, so chances are you'd be aware if that were the case.

Will let you know about the video once I've had a chance to check out the video.
Posted: Fri, 20th Nov 2009, 5:07pm

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Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

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FXhome Team Member

OK, having taken a look at your clip I know what the problem is.

The clip is interlaced, but the field are the wrong way around. I'm not sure how much you know about interlacing, so I'll quickly summarise just in case -

Each frame of an interlaced video file actually contains two separate 'fields'. These are stored on alternate horizontal lines. So lines 1, 3, 5 etc would have one field, while lines 2, 4, 6 etc would have the other one.

The camera records these fields at slightly different times. This means movement can be seen between fields. When you watch this back on a TV, it shows one field, then the other field, before moving on to the next frame. It does this in such a way that you don't notice and it just looks 'normal'.

When you watch interlaced stuff on a computer, the player will normally either blend the fields together or drop one field entirely during playback, so again it looks 'normal'. Generally editing programs hide interlacing from you for the entire process, so you don't have to deal with it.

When it comes to VFX it gets a bit trickier, as you'll often be working frame-by-frame. Lightsabers, for example, have to be applied on a field-by-field basis, otherwise it'll look odd.

VisionLab handles this by splitting each frame into its separate fields. This means that a 25 frame interlaced video will actually be displayed as 50 individual fields on the timeline. When you render the project, the fields are reinterlaced back into a normal video file.

What's happened with your video is that the fields have ended up round the wrong way at some point. This means that the motion ends up all juddery. The field play order should obviously be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6; but what's actually happening in your video is that it's going something like 2, 1, 4, 3, 6, 5 - it's all out of whack, basically.

This most likely happened due to an incorrect setting when setting up the project in EffectsLab. The scan method setting is the one to check - you need to select the right interlaced option, be it even or odd. Interlaced NTSC footage is normally 'even'.

It's easy to spot, though. Once you've brought in your video, step through it field by field. Make sure the motion is all going smoothly in the right direction. If it's jiggling back and forth, it means that the field order is wrong.

Hope this helps! Interlacing can be a bit of a nightmare if you get the workflow wrong.

Oh, and also: the video looks like great fun. smile
Posted: Fri, 20th Nov 2009, 6:35pm

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Jedi77

Force: 400 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 5

EffectsLab Pro User MacOS User

Gold Member

Thanks Tarn,
I am going to try again, (with a short clip) and see how that goes. Thanks for the info on interlacing. I had heard of it before, but did not understand how it worked. I will post again with the new results. Thanks again.

Oh, and the video is from our 4th and 5th Grade Retreat called Studio 24. During the 24 hours we film a movie about the main point for that retreat.
Posted: Fri, 20th Nov 2009, 8:31pm

Post 10 of 10

Jedi77

Force: 400 | Joined: 28th Apr 2009 | Posts: 5

EffectsLab Pro User MacOS User

Gold Member

Grrrrrr. I brought a short clip out of Final Cut and opened it in Effects Lab. One time as NTSC Interlaced Even, and the same clip in a second file NTSC Interlaced Odd. I applied 2 simple effects then rendered as DV/DVCPRO NTSC interlaced. I put both files on disk with iDVD, played on a TV, and they both have the very same wavy distortion.

Did I misunderstand something you said? I am starting to feel really frustrated with this project.