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Bad actor messes up scene. HELP!

Posted: Mon, 23rd Nov 2009, 4:51am

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TheCoyote

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Ok, so I have been filming a movie with all of my friends but in the middle of one of the scenes one of the actors was supposed to get shot and die. When I was standing right next to him, he did it fine. However, the scene did not end there. I had to turn my back on the actor who I expected to still be lying dead on the ground. The moment I turned my back though, he thought it would be funny to sit up and start making faces at the camera. Does anybody have any ideas on how I could get rid of him in the background or something?
I only have effects lab so I can't composite anything over him and even if I had visionlab or composite lab I don't know if I could because it wasn't filmed in front of a green screen.
Any ideas?
~The Coyote
Posted: Mon, 23rd Nov 2009, 4:58am

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Biblmac

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Re-film and actually kill your actor? (jk)... anyway re-filming isn't a bad idea. If you can get back to the location and shoot a blank slate, then crop part of it over him, with the freehand mask tool.
Posted: Mon, 23rd Nov 2009, 5:11am

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TheCoyote

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I thought about refilming but the rest of the shot is perfect and I already have explosions put in. Plus, the scene is really long. The only other way would be to just mask him with the part of the ground that should be on the spot where he is laying but then I would have to get the camera into the EXACT same position as it was in and I don't think I will be able to do that. I'll just leave him in there if my ONLY option is refilming but does anybody have any other ideas?
Posted: Mon, 23rd Nov 2009, 6:11am

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Axeman

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Do you have another angle you can cut to? Or another take, perhaps? If not, the first thing I'd try is to re-film the messed up bit of the scene from another angle, where you don't see him, and that way you could do the re-shoot without that particular actor. It would also keep the size of the portion that needs re-filming as small as possible, though it would be somewhat important to match everything for continuity.
Posted: Mon, 23rd Nov 2009, 7:18am

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ben3308

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TheCoyote wrote:

I thought about refilming but the rest of the shot is perfect and I already have explosions put in.
The shot's not perfect, because the guy sits up. You can always redo the explosions. They might be cool, but they're easier to eradicate in a refilmed version than masking out or otherwise editing in a hackneyed way a whole actor.

Refilm it. It sounds like you have to.
Posted: Mon, 23rd Nov 2009, 7:43am

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spydurhank

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Could you post a link to the scene you're talking about? The part before and after your buddy plays the joke on you if possible.

I would like to see a few things before offering any advice if that makes sense... but if you can, you should re-shoot the scene.

I may have some ideas on how to fix it though, but I need to see those two scenes first as I already mentioned.
Posted: Mon, 23rd Nov 2009, 11:47am

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pdrg

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Sounds like you're looking for a bodge, if you can't afford to fix it with a reshoot (using live ammo this time...). Ok, sow about digitally creeping into the image which will frame him more peripherally, then use a mist/smoke effect to mask the lower edge. Yes, it's a bodge, but editing is always a bodge job.

Or add some gaussian blur so we can't see his faces? Or go all split-screen juxtaposing your reaction to some other plot element where your friend was important, make it more poingant with lots of black borders, slo-mo, weepy music etc. Or have a blood/gore splatter on the lens to mask him out? Just kicking around a few bodges...
Posted: Mon, 23rd Nov 2009, 11:48am

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Simon K Jones

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Another bodge possibility: Composite a foreground item of furniture that will obscure him.
Posted: Mon, 23rd Nov 2009, 3:15pm

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Fxhome Dude

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Try this.
Make two copies of the footage. when the actor is dead is the slice tool and cut out one frame from where he is fine. Set that frames speed to 1%. Mask it so just the actor dead part shows through. This may require moving, but it's worth a try. And as pdrg said. some smoke/gore could help mask the mistake.
Posted: Mon, 23rd Nov 2009, 5:06pm

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Aculag

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Tarn wrote:

Another bodge possibility: Composite a foreground item of furniture that will obscure him.
And just to make sure it doesn't happen again, do this every time the actor appears on screen, even when the setting doesn't call for it. wink
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 1:17am

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TheCoyote

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Ok, thanks. I'm going to post the scene on youtube so you can see it. I will post again when this is done.
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 1:18am

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TheCoyote

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The other problem with making gore splatter on the camera is that I get thrown by the explosion in the scene and I fly in front of the actor so I would cover me too.
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 1:34am

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TheCoyote

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Ok, I uploaded the scene to Youtube. You can view it at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW0nbVQ97n4
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 1:42am

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Fxhome Dude

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I know what you mean alot better now. If you have a method of doing it that's fine, I think for that u might have to reshoot. With the moving camera etc.
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 1:46am

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TheCoyote

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ok, yeah, looking at it more closely I can't really see any way to avoid reshooting other than just leaving it there since I keep moving in front of him. I am even in front of him at the only time when he actually looks dead so I can't really take that and put it over him later either.
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 2:12am

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Terminal Velocity

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Make it a Call of Duty movie. EVERYONE HAS REGENERATING HEALTH!!!!11!!11!1!!!!!!!!1!!

No, what the other guys said. Reshoot. There's not really any way to fix that issue.
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 2:26am

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Fxhome Dude

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Richard III wrote:

Make it a Call of Duty movie. EVERYONE HAS REGENERATING HEALTH!!!!11!!11!1!!!!!!!!1!!
MAKE IT A HALO MOVIE!!!! smile

Last edited Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 4:13pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 10:13am

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pdrg

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I saw your clip - dead guy can't easily be fixed, so i'd still go with removing him. Shoot another angle just of close ups on the still living actor, and cut away, then use that cutaway as a chance to digitally soom the undead guy out of the shot, and use those cutaways to get you out of trouble.

Watch *any* tv/movie, and you'll see cuts and cutaways. News studios use multiple cameras for live shows, and prerecorded interviews always shoot a few moments of the interviewees hands, some other details, or reverse angles of the interviewer asking the questions or nodding. It's how editing works.
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 11:50am

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rogolo

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Tarn wrote:

Composite a foreground item of furniture that will obscure him.
After seeing your footage, I believe Tarn's suggestion should be revisited now more than ever:


"Dont mind the unsuspecting red couch....it wants no trouble."


It works, no?
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 4:10pm

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pdrg

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^^ Brilliant!
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 4:13pm

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Fxhome Dude

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Yea, seeing that clip changes everything. BTW coyote, how did you so that earth sqib, maybe im missing something.
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 4:57pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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This kind of thing is often fixed in post and it doesn't have to be a bodge - it's quite a bit of work though.

Usually you De-grain/De-noise the entire plate then create a patch (a clean still image) of the background/area behind what you want to remove and then patch/track it over the top of the original plate so you have a patch without any grain ontop of the original plate, then you re-add the noise onto the patch and grade it to fit in perfectly.

Simple enough but can be very fiddly and consisting of several seperate pieces of work. Incase you're wondering - you create the patch off of a grain free image because otherwise you'd have grain that moved for your entire shot except the area you patched in.

If that's out of the realms of what you're willing to try and my explanation is the clues you need to research and get started - good luck, if not then a bodge or reshoot is on the cards.

-Matt
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 5:10pm

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Sollthar

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Sorry, but your actor isn't the only problem this shot has, despite the fact everyone seems to be too friendly to mention it. It's far from "perfect". Way too long for one. You definately need to cover more different angles and cut between them. That way, you can also simply avoid using an angle where your "actor" messes up.
Doing anything in post to this shot to cover your actor is, imo, a total waste of time better spent in generally updating the scene.
Go shoot some closeups of your face, the enemies, the gun, the ground with ricochets - whatever. Then edit those together. If something looks odd from one angle, chances are, it might work from the other.
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 5:21pm

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TheCoyote

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Yeah, the scene you saw is just the raw film with no editing. It looks better when it is actually edited. (For instance, I didn't leave in the 5 seconds of me trying to tell that stupid actor to die.)
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 5:39pm

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Fxhome Dude

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TheCoyote wrote:

Yeah, the scene you saw is just the raw film with no editing. It looks better when it is actually edited. (For instance, I didn't leave in the 5 seconds of me trying to tell that stupid actor to die.)
I think the shot was fine, except for that part. How was the earth sqib done if that was the raw clip.
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 6:10pm

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The Chosen One

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Wes the fxhome dude wrote:

How was the earth sqib done if that was the raw clip.
I belive he used an in-camera effect. AKA: a hole with a shovel in it.
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 7:31pm

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Fxhome Dude

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The Chosen One wrote:

Wes the fxhome dude wrote:

How was the earth sqib done if that was the raw clip.
I belive he used an in-camera effect. AKA: a hole with a shovel in it.
That's what I figured...
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 10:43pm

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TheCoyote

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Yeah, that's what we used. It's pretty good too. I thought the shovel would be more noticeable
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 11:14pm

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swintonmaximilian

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next time, punch your friend in the throat so he can't get back up. But really, I think you would be much better off re filming this. The shot isn't worth saving given the effort and time required to do so.
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 11:20pm

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TheCoyote

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Ok, everyone is getting back together again probably on Friday to finish filming. We will probably refilm it then I guess. Thanks for all of the help guys. I'm probably going to post the finished movie on this site. You should check out the trailer for it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9eHSSNm9js
Ignore the explosion in the trailer. I know it sucks. The one I have now is much better.
Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 11:23pm

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Staff Only

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rogolo wrote:

After seeing your footage, I believe Tarn's suggestion should be revisited now more than ever
You know I was wondering about that suggestion even before I saw the footage, because when I imagined it in my head it was outside in the battlefield. Some randomly appearing furniture might not blend in that well. Your picture however was genius! I had to stifle my laughter to not wake up the house. biggrin +1

PS: Perhaps Tarn knew what he was talking about and all it needs is Hybrid's industry standard compositing skills to work. Might wanna ask him if he can have a go at it.

Last edited Wed, 25th Nov 2009, 12:02am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 24th Nov 2009, 11:30pm

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TheCoyote

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Haha, yeah, that was pretty funny. Nice job.
Posted: Wed, 25th Nov 2009, 12:47am

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DVStudio

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Hmmm. Interesting. Could take quite a bit of work to get right, and even then it may still look botched I'm afraid. Not really worth the effort of compositing or masking though. Reshoot is the best bet, but of course by now you already know that.

That's a good lesson for you though on a few fronts. One, free help and actors aren't going to be Hollywood material. Plain and simple. Its fun and cool to use friends for movies, and most of us do it all the time, but sometimes they need a little bit of coaching and encouragement. No worries. Additionally, perhaps it would be in good practice to try to review each scene before moving on, get retakes when you need them, etc. Sometime time consuming, but then it saves you some time in post.

No chance you could change the plot line to accommodate the botch job huh?

As for the trailer…. Im not liking the text much at all to be honest. Titles are left on screen far too long- faster paced would be more exciting and more fitting I believe. Also, the effects… ummm… need a bit of work. I know judging by the actors in the film you’re younger, but p[perhaps pick up one of the FXH tutorial DVDs or check out some of the member tutorials and guides here to learn them a little better. Eg. Grading, particles, etc. Plus motion tracking on those flames and explosions is a must! Overall, not that bad, expected a bit worse. Good attempt. Hope that wasn’t too harsh. I know when you first get the software it is overwhelming how much there is to try out, but perhaps try some free stock footage instead of the preset explosions… you’ll get better and far more realistic results that way.

Cheers
DV

Edit: My apologies, I missed an entire page of this thread, Very sorry. Like the couch photo, brilliant man!
Posted: Wed, 25th Nov 2009, 2:34am

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Limey

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Nice idea with the shovel dirt explosion. It would have been a little better if it was more hidden though.
Posted: Thu, 26th Nov 2009, 8:12pm

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TheCoyote

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thanks for the input DV, but also as i said when i posted the trailer, the effects in that one suck. I have better ones now.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 10:03pm

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Fxhome Dude

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Just saw the trailer, looks good. Especially the font. Anyway, best of luck.
Posted: Tue, 1st Dec 2009, 11:27pm

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Bryan M Block

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pdrg wrote:

I saw your clip - dead guy can't easily be fixed, so i'd still go with removing him. Shoot another angle just of close ups on the still living actor, and cut away, then use that cutaway as a chance to digitally soom the undead guy out of the shot, and use those cutaways to get you out of trouble.

Watch *any* tv/movie, and you'll see cuts and cutaways. News studios use multiple cameras for live shows, and prerecorded interviews always shoot a few moments of the interviewees hands, some other details, or reverse angles of the interviewer asking the questions or nodding. It's how editing works.
BEST ADVICE.

This is one, long, continuous shot.... why? No inserts or cutaways or close ups? Those types of shots are what make a piece DYNAMIC and support the narrative by selectively emphasizing certain aspects of things. Use this as your master shot maybe...and go shoot some closeups and cutaways!