You are viewing an archive of the old fxhome.com forums. The community has since moved to hitfilm.com.

E3 2010

Posted: Tue, 15th Jun 2010, 12:02am

Post 1 of 41

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

According to Engadget, Project Natal is now named "Kinect", will be released on Nov 4 and will cost 150$. Games announced for it so far are:


-Kinectimals features over 20 different virtual pets, including lions, tigers, and cheetahs, to play with or raise.
-Joyride has returned to life as a controller-free racing game, apparently.
-Kinect Sports will offer sport games to play: "boxing, bowling, beach volleyball, track and field, soccer and table tennis." For each one, you will make motions to play the games.
-Kinect Adventures has a river raft and obstacle course to navigate -- this is likely the demo we saw last week.
-MTV Games will release Dance Central, where you can cut a virtual rug.
-And there will be more games announced later featuring both Disney characters and Star Wars characters, in conjunction with Disney and LucasArts, respectively.

My anticipation level just went from "through the roof" to zero. I will not be buying this.

Also, the new design theme for everything is shite.

Last edited Tue, 15th Jun 2010, 2:56am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 15th Jun 2010, 12:45am

Post 2 of 41

jawajohnny

Force: 1965 | Joined: 14th Dec 2007 | Posts: 829

VisionLab User VideoWrap User MuzzlePlug User Windows User

Gold Member

Playstation Move, on the other hand, looks fantastic. Here's hoping for a lightsaber game...
Posted: Tue, 15th Jun 2010, 1:24am

Post 3 of 41

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

You should rename this topic "E3 2010," because there is nothing to say about Natal. It's stupid and they presented it stupidly. In my opinion, it always was stupid, by itself. Great technology, but not great for gameplay. I knew I was not going to get this for my Xbox when they showed off those early concept videos and stuff.

Anyways, tomorrow: Zelda, 3DS, Retrostudios' Donkey Kong, Goldeneye Wii. Oh snap. I also want to see what Valve has to show, and there are a few sweet looking PS3 and XBox games.

Metal Gear looks cool, but I'll wait for reviews, and I still have to play 2-4. Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKU_od-oN8o
Posted: Tue, 15th Jun 2010, 2:42am

Post 4 of 41

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Kinect is a slightly better name than Natal, but it still looks extremely uninteresting, and I can't wait to see if anything innovative ever comes out for it. Ever since the first demos it has looked like a terrible idea, and nothing has changed. Things like the Wiimote and Move are cool because you have tactile feedback. I can see Kinect getting stale real quick if they don't get real creative with it.

Also, I really like the new 360 design. There's just something about shiny and black that makes for a great gadget. I might actually upgrade, being that my 360 is near 5 years old, and has already died once/has a faulty disc drive. Too bad I would need money to do that.

That Metal Gear trailer was incredible. Seriously jaw droppingly awesome. MGS4 is one of the best games I've ever played (I haven't played 3, but I hear it's the best), and I am now very excited for Rising. Playing as Raiden looks ridiculously awesome, but it also looks to change the gameplay drastically, which is cool, because they've all been mostly the same gameplay so far.

Very interested to see what the ever intriguing 3DS is all about, as well as any cool PS3 exclusives. If the 3DS actually works well and has some cool games, it might be the first handheld I buy since my original Gameboy.
Posted: Tue, 15th Jun 2010, 3:39am

Post 5 of 41

DVStudio

Force: 4983 | Joined: 22nd Nov 2007 | Posts: 1845

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User PhotoKey 4 User FXpreset Maker FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Kintec is a disappointment. The idea, while it seemed cool from the start, quickly went downhill and was killed with this. Who would waste the 150 bucks to play crappy games like those? Can’t say I didn’t see this coming.

Anyways, one more good thing from E3 at least is the new Bad Company 2 Expansion Pack featuring Vietnam. wink I'm actually pretty psyched for this.
Posted: Tue, 15th Jun 2010, 5:02am

Post 6 of 41

The FE

Force: 435 | Joined: 10th Apr 2007 | Posts: 580

EffectsLab Pro User MacOS User

Gold Member

HA! Butchered just as expected. Me 1 Microsoft 0 smile
Posted: Tue, 15th Jun 2010, 7:28am

Post 7 of 41

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Ugh, I was just there for the past 5 hours helping out this moronic technician at one of their booths trying to get their trailers to play back correctly (I won't name the developer). But I got the chance to test a few games while I was there and the entire E3 show floor looks phenomenal!

I'm in the office on Tues but I'll be there all day Wed and maybe Thurs. I can't wait.

Casual: Kinect > Move
Hardcore: Move > Kinect
Posted: Tue, 15th Jun 2010, 8:07am

Post 8 of 41

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Kinect is somehow a worse name than Bing. Microsoft know how to name 'em!

I still think Kinect is a cool bit of tech - I'd absolutely LOVE to have a system like that powering something like Heavy Rain. That would be infinitely superior to using a gamepad.

However, the Forza demo was hilariously awful. First a random 10 second driving bit in which they didn't explain how you accelerate or brake, but in which the steering at least looked kinda fun, then they spent about 10 minutes showing how you can sort-of walk around a car. So...tedious. Also, the walking-around-a-car tech would be so much faster and easier if you just had a mouse and keyboard, or even a gamepad.

Poor.
Posted: Tue, 15th Jun 2010, 5:33pm

Post 9 of 41

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Goldeneye sequel for Wii this year.

Zelda looks amazing, releasing next year. This is my most anticipated game, I love the look of it and how it looks to play.

New Kirby console game.

Donkey Kong Country is back!!!!!! HOLY SH**. People have waited around 20 years for this.

Kid Icarus for 3DS announced. Another announcement people have been waiting for for decades.

3DS Street Fighter, Metal Gear, Saint’s Row, Kingdom Hearts 3D, Batman 3D, Resident Evil, Sims 3d, and Assassins Creed.

3DS can take 3D still pictures using the two cameras, and will support portable 3D films. No glasses required. 3D can be adjusted and even turned off completely.

New Metroid game footage.

New Dragon Quest for 3DS.

Mario sports and Mario Volleyball announced. These are usually fun party games, so that's cool.

Also, list of first party 3DS games announced:

-Animal Crossing

-Mario Kart

-nintendogs™ + cats

-Paper Mario

-PilotWings Resort

-Star Fox 64 3D (I hope this is a sequel, but even a 3D port would be cool honestly)

-Steel Diver


That's a brief overview of what Nintendo had to announce, and I am overwhelmed. They haven't had this good an E3 in a while. I had an appointment so I missed the conference. unsure But still, awesome stuff.

Zelda trailer: http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/872155/the-legend-of-zelda-wii/videos/e310_zelda_full_trl_061510.html I'll post links for other media like Donkey Kong, Goldeneye, 3DS, etc. as they go online.


GOLDENEYE TEASER INSANE: http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/867280/goldeneye-007/videos/e32010_goldeneye_trl_wii_e3_61410.html

Donkey Kong screens are beautiful: http://media.wii.ign.com/media/143/14354707/imgs_1.html

Kirby art design is pretty damn awesome, very Yoshi's Island:


More: http://media.wii.ign.com/media/853/853826/imgs_1.html

Here are screens and media for some of the other games I mentioned earlier, and pics of the 3DS, etc. Default 3DS colors are UGLY, I hope they have it in solid black and white. EDIT: Oh, you can choose colors, Black/Red is cool, but I'll spring for the Black if they don't have an option for white:

http://e3src.nintendo.com/3ds/





HOLY SH**************! Zelda Ocarina of Time REMAKE IN 3D!!!!!
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9033963

Oh yes, I didn't think it could get better than it was 2 hours ago when I thought I had read it all.





And this is all I needed to hear. Except maybe the release date. IGN goes hands on with the Nintendo 3DS, including it's movie playback (with comparison to 3D Theater experience):
http://ds.ign.com/articles/109/1098014p1.html
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 2:17am

Post 10 of 41

doppelganger

Force: 134 | Joined: 16th May 2006 | Posts: 1157

MacOS User

Member

Assassins Creed Brotherhood just became my most anticipated game along with MGS rising and Killzone 3 EDIT: almost forgot about the awesome Crysis 2 which also looks amazing

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-ubisoft/101531 Assassins Creed's opening battle looks insane... if they're able to keep up that kind of gameplay throughout then the game will be incredible

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-call-of/101273 Black Ops also looks pretty cool if only for the nice change in setting and time period and the World at War level of violence seems to be back. Thank God cause MW2 was seriously lacking blood and limbs going everywhere smile And you get to fly in a damn helicopter!!

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-crysis-2/101143 Crysis 2 looks amazing. A sci-fi fps that takes place in an open world New York... crazy
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 3:06am

Post 11 of 41

Thrawn

Force: 1995 | Joined: 11th Aug 2006 | Posts: 1962

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Assassins Creed: Brotherhood is the single best thing to come out of E3 this year. There are a few other nice games, but most everything else is just "meh", especially the whole Xbox Kinect, which is extremely disappointing. I do think there's actually potential behind the whole "body" motion control, but they definitely didn't tap into that potential. Even the Playstation Move was disappointing.

Not to happy.
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 3:21am

Post 12 of 41

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Maybe it's just me- but how are things like Nintendogs, dated retreads of overly-released games, and minimal, underwhelming developments mentioned and Wii's failures with nothing more than the casual flick-of-the-wrist; but Microsoft's Kinect is somehow this incredibly deplorable, horrid failure?

Again, I'm only a casual gamer- but aside from a name-change and some younger-oriented rebranding, Kinect looks about as cool and interesting as it did before. For better or for worse; but hardly awful or drastically different than last year.

Not to make this into a console debate- after all, my true love will always be towards the PlayStation line. But Xbox has really been doing nothing but great things I feel like for the past 2+ years, and I've been impressed enough (again, as a casual gamer) to tip my hat their way and buy a 360.

Nothing really looks bad or any different this year; with the exception of more exciting things going on to favor the PS3. Xbox has their sh*t together, and their redesign looks pretty slick- I see how this may not be entirely thrilling, but it's hardly a disappointment, is it?

Am I wrong in thinking this? I have a hard time gauging gamers and what's 'hot' with gaming stuff, so this could just be me. Without any facetiousness, really.
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 3:42am

Post 13 of 41

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Nintendogs sucks. It's targeted at kids and girls. Not really meant for you or me. 3D remakes of my favorite games of all time are awesome. Sequels to my favorite games of all time that have a place in my heart excite me. Gimmicky Natal tech demo games that will probably be about as fun as Wii Sports (not very fun) don't excite me.

I'm not disappointed by Microsoft at all, but they didn't blow me away with anything. I didn't really have any kind of expectations. I am completely uninterested in Natal, but the redesign is cool (even though I'll never buy another XBox 360) and games they showed at and after their conference are cool. I also love some of the games Sony has to show. PC as well.

So yeah, I'm just excited that my favorite company is releasing games that will please me. And 3D. Also, it's pretty much an overwhelming consensus that Nintendo packed a lot into this E3 compared to most companies and most E3s. May not be your cup of tea, this Nintendo E3 conference was clearly for the hardcore fans, and for showing off the 3DS.


EDIT-Changed "Xbox" to "Xbox 360." I'll never buy another 360, but I may buy the next gen Xbox, I love the 360 lineup.


Oh, and to really drive my point home:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Krk4NNU5Fw

cracked.com wrote:
"At one point the virtual cat licked the screen, and the little Asian girl giggled and reacted as if she was being licked and tickled by a real cat. The audience at the conference reacted in exactly the same way you react when you notice the homeless guy next to you on the subway is masturbating."



What a show Microsoft, what a show.

Last edited Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 6:09am; edited 4 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 4:12am

Post 14 of 41

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Yeah, I don't care how long I have to stand in line tomorrow - I'm playing that 3DS! I ashamed to say that I'm already sold on it and I haven't even seen it yet hah. I can't wait to try out Kinect as well.

But yeah... I'm damn giddy about the 3DS (And Nintendo hasn't really appealed to me in a while).
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 6:18am

Post 15 of 41

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Atom - I wouldn't describe your viewpoint as being "wrong", just as being that of the mainstream. These new, simpler games that are easy to get into and are based on fads like motion control and 3D are slowly eating away at the industry that a bunch of people, myself included, were passionate about for years. That's good news for casual gamers, but for us old-timers it signals approaching doom.

I'd much rather play an old-style RPG with amazing writing that requires 40 hours to complete and a fairly high level of devotion (Mass Effect 2) to a bunch of Fitness Titles and Minigame collections (Kinect). Thus, Kinect not having ANY "Core gamer" games and being aimed solely at casual gamers and featuring only shovelware titles that will be in the Costco bargain bin within a year was a huge disappointment to me.

Don't take that as meaning that I oppose change in the industry, it's just that I prefer change that IMPROVES story and immersion, rather than banishing all forms of it. I mean, hell, the only core games that were shown at the Xbox conference were Gears of War 3, Halo 5, and Call of Duty... what is it, 8? All titles completely fundamentally identical to the ones that came before. It's like gaming has become so mainstream that originality is being stifled.

Plus, Sony and Microsoft are trying to use these new motion control devices to delay the release of the next console generation, so even the technology is getting held back by this wave of casualness!
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 8:33am

Post 16 of 41

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Absolutely nothing wrong with casual gaming - the more people playing games and greater the diversity the better, in the long run.

Also, I wouldn't say there's anything particularly hardcore about Gears of War, Halo or Call of Duty. Those franchises are all about as mainstream as you can get before you introduce fluffy creatures and motion control. wink

You haven't experienced proper old school gaming until you've played obscure indie games on the PC, weird German strategy titles or bonkers Russian shooters.
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 3:06pm

Post 17 of 41

Axeman

Force: 17995 | Joined: 20th Jan 2002 | Posts: 6124

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

SuperUser

Pooky wrote:

Don't take that as meaning that I oppose change in the industry, it's just that I prefer change that IMPROVES story and immersion, rather than banishing all forms of it.
I'm not a gamer at all, and so I could be misunderstanding the whole issue, but isn't the whole point of Kinect or whatever it is that it adds massively more immersion to the gaming experience? It literally puts you physically into the game, I'm not sure how it could be more immersive.

I'm not saying the technology is great, or even that it won't be lame, but describing it as banishing all forms of immersion seems silly, when it actually does the exact opposite. It certainly doesn't look to be doing good things for the story yet, but I don't think the same can be said for immersion.
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 3:20pm

Post 18 of 41

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Eye Toy put you right in the game too. I wouldn't call that "game world immersion." Immersion comes with the visuals, the style, the gameplay, etc. Half Life 2 was one of the earlier games where you had no cut scenes, but storyline stuff happened right in front of you as you played. You were your character and you were inside the story. Then they added levels of other things that added to the immersion, such as voice acting, graphics, beautiful worlds, interactivity in the world, cool physics and puzzles based on the physics, etc.

What Microsoft showed was gimmicky shovelware titles on screen that you interact with, like the Eye Toy. Don't mistake interaction for immersion. Now, I don't think this banishes all forms of story and immersion, but so far it doesn't look like Microsoft are using Kinect for either of those things yet. Personally, I don't see this thing ever doing much unless you also have some kind of controller to go along with it or something. On its own, I can't see this being any more than the Eye Toy (though probably more fun, Eye Toy sucked. Maybe this will be as good as Wii Sports and the like, which are still bad, shortlasting games). As Pooky said, you should be able to pick this up for a bargain in the Costco bin a year after it releases.

Last edited Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 3:25pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 3:23pm

Post 19 of 41

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

I think the point here maybe is that interface specifics aren't as important as content.

Hence, you can use a keyboard and a mouse to play HL2 (about as abstracted as possible) but the other elements Serpent mentions are what makes it work.

Kineckt, Wii remotes, gamepads...they're largely irrelevant without the right content.

The only exception is direct-analogues for real world things, such as steering wheels for racing games.
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 4:22pm

Post 20 of 41

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Axeman wrote:

It literally puts you physically into the game
Uh, no it doesn't. It puts you standing in front of a screen.

To me, what Kinect is missing is some kind of tactile feedback. I think having rumble in controllers, and having that weight, and pushing buttons and pulling triggers all add a lot to games. If you can't use a secondary controller, and are forced to just use your body to move around, it seems like the range of games is going to be somewhat limited. Not that I think there won't eventually be interesting applications, but it's definitely not going to be revolutionary.

I think a combination of Kinect and Wiimote/Move technologies is what needs to happen. Give players the full use of their bodies to control, but also give them the weight and functionality of a more traditional controller.
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 4:28pm

Post 21 of 41

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

I've yet to be convinced by the Wiimote or its variants. As far as I've seen, it's really no more useful - or immersive - than a standard light gun from the 1990s.

It works OK as an innacurate pointing device (inaccurate due to the distance between your hand and the screen/sensor, it would seem, which magnifies every slight tremble), but that just makes it a slightly wobbly version of a mouse.

Whether you're holding something (Wii/Move) or not (Kinect), you're still not getting proper feedback. Hence both systems are useless for, say, sword fighting, because that only works if you have proper feedback and a sense of 'impact'.

That's why traditional gamepads and mouse/keyboard work for me still - they're SO abstracted that they disappear from my awareness.

Wiimotes, Move, Kinect, however - they all sit right at the bottom of the 'uncanny valley of interaction' for me.
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 4:30pm

Post 22 of 41

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Tarn - I've played all three types of games you mentioned smile Remember, I was a PC purist before I got a 360. Also, those three games I mentioned being ridiculously mainstream sequels was what I was hinting at: Microsoft is heading away from core gamers towards the casual crowd.

Now, I used to agree that casual gaming was good for the industry, and I was really looking forward to the E3 announcements, but I think we've been shown where the industry is headed, and it seems that now funding is going to be poured into casual and away from us actual gamers. I guess we'll all end up on the PC again for the next few years, like last gen.
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 4:31pm

Post 23 of 41

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Rating: +1

All this has happened before and it will happen again.
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 4:35pm

Post 24 of 41

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Not on this scale, though. Everybody and their mum seems to own a Wii now.
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 4:51pm

Post 25 of 41

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

My buddy tried Kinect yesterday. He was a hater before he tried it but after wards he said he couldn't wipe the smile off his face. He's a hardcore gamer but he said Kinect was still too much fun (unexpected fun). Sure it looks dumb watching vids of other people doing it but wait until you get to try it to judge.

I think all of this is a step in a great direction though. Whether the technology is fully ready yet or not, I think this is what has to happen in order for this type of tech to grow. 10 years from now, we could have some SERIOUSLY amazing motion gaming technology. Hell... Even 5 years from now. I welcome it.

Obviously the controller and k/b won't go away for a loooooong time (if ever) but that doesn't mean we can't welcome other ways to play games. I'm a pretty hardcore gamer but I still love playing games with my casual friends like Mario Party, Wii Bowling, etc. Even more fun when a few drinks are involved. Huh? blink
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 5:23pm

Post 26 of 41

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

I agree that it's a step in the right direction, good technology, *I* certainly welcome it. I'm in big support of motion gameplay. But by itself, based on what your buddy played, what potential does he see in it? I loved Wii Sports the first week I played it. But I literally haven't touched it since then, even drinking with friends. I'd rather play Mario Party, Halo, Super Smash Bros., Mario Kart, or something like that. I can't imagine this being any more fun than Wii Sports, and nothing more. The Wii Remote (and PS3 controller, and the new Sony Motion controller) obviously has the potential for pretty much any kind of game that uses a regular controller.

Now, if I was holding an XBox controller and projectiles were flying at me and I had to wave the controller to block them, then I get attacked by a wolf and have to kick it off me with my legs--see, that stuff is kind of cool. But I see literally **0** potential for this to go beyond the sports game/obstacle course/tiger simulator/Star Wars rails arcade style game. It's kind of hard to reserve judgment when the future is looking really grim. I mean...



Come on.

They need to announce a Fifa game where you have the option to swing your leg instead of pressing "B." That kind of thing. Kinect in combination with the 360 controller. That's the only hope I see for this having potential.
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 7:13pm

Post 27 of 41

Atom

Force: 4300 | Joined: 9th May 2004 | Posts: 7014

EffectsLab Lite User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

One thing I think people are discounting, which is just all-around cool for everyone is the way you'll be able to use the Xbox dashboard interface with Kinect.

I don't know about you guys, but I use Netflix on Xbox or the music player in some form just about every day- and as silly as it sounds, I know when I'm entertaining and picking out a movie nothing will impress the ladies more than flipping through my instant que with the flick of the wrist to my imaginary catalog.

Just.........that feels like it'd be so money. Very 'preposterously-silly-but-cool-Tony-Stark-interface-in-Iron-Man-2', if you know what I mean.
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 8:17pm

Post 28 of 41

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Tarn wrote:

Absolutely nothing wrong with casual gaming - the more people playing games and greater the diversity the better, in the long run.
Actually, I strongly disagree with that statement.

The fact the market always aims for the "mainstream" makes a truckload of casual gamers leading to games being easier, simpler and faster to get into. This is good news for the casual gamers, bad news for some oldskoolers like me.

Since the early 90s, computer games have gotten easier and easier and dumbed down for the mass market casual gamers. All the really great complex titles still available to date ("civilization" is the main one coming to mind) have been around since the good old days.
Where are the adventures with riddles so hard they'll keep you up at night? Where are the platformers that are so damn difficult to survive you're happy to make it into level two? Where are those complex management games where you really have to think hard about every step because a mistake could cost your life? I miss those.

Best example is the new "UFO: Enemy Unknown" game. The original was complex, a brilliant mix of finance simulation, base building, military strategy and science, hard as it gets, difficult to get into but as rewarding as pretty much no other game ever again. Now the want to make a new one and what are they doing? They turn it into an Ego-Shooter... So that all the casual gamers can "get into it very quickly".

Hurray.

/rant

Last edited Thu, 17th Jun 2010, 5:03am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 8:42pm

Post 29 of 41

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

@Atom: that's actually an excellent point. I hope someone hacks it so it can be used on PC somehow (like the Wii remote). My TV media center is powered by a computer, and I can see myself spending $150 for Tony Stark/Mission Impossible-like interaction.


As for the increase in casual gamer's effect on the industry, I think there will always be developers pleasing the core fans. I am not worried about it at all. I think it's a very positive thing for video games as an artform. Look at games like Okami, Heavy Rain, Mario Galaxy, Valve's work, and even indie games more recently. Games like this are validating the fact that video game design is an artform, and it's becoming accepted by the steriotypical "old white politicians" and there is less and less Hillary Clinton-like campaigns that attack the gaming industry as a whole. I don't have the same taste in games as you Sollthar, so I don't know how it's affecting that specific kind of game nowadays. I don't get off on the challenge as much. I know hard platformers aren't AS prevalent and popular, but they are out there. Same with the other genres, I'm assuming (again, probably not as prevalent now that there is more money involved in gaming industry). But companies are certainly still making brilliant games for gamers.
Posted: Wed, 16th Jun 2010, 9:48pm

Post 30 of 41

B3N

Force: 3081 | Joined: 26th Feb 2006 | Posts: 1534

VisionLab User VideoWrap User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

This sums up E3 for me pretty simply.

Posted: Thu, 17th Jun 2010, 4:37am

Post 31 of 41

CX3

Force: 3137 | Joined: 1st Apr 2003 | Posts: 2527

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Ok, just got back from E3 a little bit ago. It was too much fun. Unfortunately I didn't get my hands on the 3DS. The line for that was out of this world. I would have wasted a lot of time not being able to test the stuff I wanted to.

Move... Is a huge disappointment. I played with it for a good 15 mins and it's nothing more than a Wii Mote. I had hugely high hopes for it going in but it was the most underwhelming thing of the show. The line had like 10 people in it and it only took me 5 mins until I was playing with it.

Kinect on the other hand, I expected to underwhelm and it was soooo much fun. So much fun. There seriously is something about experiencing a game without a controller. It's a very trippy feeling (and really cool). The line for Kinect was forever long. It took us about 1 hour and 45mins to get through it but it was worth it to try. The 3DS line was muuuuuch longer.

Got to play: Marvel vs Capcom 3 (amazing), Socom 4 (With move & reg controller - the game is awesome), Ultimate Ninja Storm 2 (so sick), Kingdom Hearts, DC Universe Online, Kinect games, And watched others play a hundred more titles ha.

Here is where I'm going to love Kinect: Not sure if you all got to play REZ HD for 360 but it's an amazing game. The music, visuals and how the game moves is absolutely amazing. You should definitely try it. That and the game makes all of the controllers you own pulse to the beat of the music (If you want). Then you can put them underneath your pillows and cushions to use as a massage/vibrate chair type deal. Total trip.

This upcoming game is from the makers of REZ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p7HxkgK09I When I think of gaming innovation, I think of games like these. Titles that think WAYYYY outside the box. This is easily one of my fav game trailers and my favorite at E3 by far.
Posted: Thu, 17th Jun 2010, 5:54am

Post 32 of 41

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Oh yeah, I actually forgot about Child of Eden. Definitely something I want to at least try! Still, 150$ is a bit steep for that one game right now, guess we'll see what develops, eh? smile
Posted: Thu, 17th Jun 2010, 7:14am

Post 33 of 41

Redhawksrymmer

Force: 18442 | Joined: 19th Aug 2002 | Posts: 2620

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 3 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Quite jealous you went to E3, CX3 wink Been catching up with the last couple of days' news, and so far I'm pretty sopld on Playstation Move, while being a bit more hesistant towards the Kinect - might be that it more requires you to physically try the technology as the tech demos they show right now look a bit dodgy.

I'm not really into the whole motion controller trend though and the comparisons you can draw between pretty much every console and the Nintendo Wii is in my opinion, not a very good one. I did enjoy reading about Rock Band 3, which seems to incorporate some pretty crazy tech (like pro guitar with over a hundred keys) - also I'm a keyboard junkie so that should be pretty fun!

All in all, the show hasn't really blown me out of the water just yet but still, it'd be really fun to be there.

Oh, and yes, Rez HD is awesome.
Posted: Thu, 17th Jun 2010, 9:32am

Post 34 of 41

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Sollthar wrote:

Tarn wrote:

Absolutely nothing wrong with casual gaming - the more people playing games and greater the diversity the better, in the long run.
Actually, I strongly disagree with that statement.

The fact the market always aims for the "mainstream" makes a truckload of casual gamers leading to games being easier, simpler and faster to get into. This is good news for the casual gamers, bad news for some oldskoolers like me.
Maybe, but that's probably because it's early days and everything is still balancing out.

The movie industry is great because it supports just about every taste - sure, the Hollywood stuff gets the big marketing budgets, but there's MASSES of indie and arty and weird and crazy and difficult stuff out there as well. That's the kind of diversity I want to see in gaming.

Where are the adventures with riddles so hard they'll keep you up at night? Where are the platformers that are so damn difficult to survive you're happy to make it into level two? Where are those complex management games where you really have to think hard about every step because a mistake could cost your life? I miss those.
Most of these genres are still supported on the PC, in the indie realm. Do you read Rock, Paper, Shotgun? They frequently link to (often free) indie titles that are carrying on the hardcore platform/strategy/management games of old.

Much like you're not going to see mainstream movie studios releasing difficult, challenging work, you're not going to see difficult, challenging games from EA and Activision. But it's all still there on PC.

There have been some fantastic 2D, indie, retro styled platformers on PC recently - many playable in a browser - and there's always a bunch of hardcore strategy and simulation titles coming along.

But, yes, you're not going to find them on the consoles at the moment, or coming from the major publishers.

Read RPS and you'll find all sorts of fascinating stuff you'd otherwise miss.
Posted: Thu, 17th Jun 2010, 4:54pm

Post 35 of 41

ben3308

Force: 5210 | Joined: 24th May 2004 | Posts: 6433

VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Sometimes, though, in the realm of video games, titles become mainstream because they are the best, respectively, when they come out. I'm looking at Modern Warfare for FPS, Mass Effect, Gears of War, Arkham Asylum, etc.

Simply not being indie doesn't make a game bad. Hell, a game could still certainly be the 'best' game out on a platform and be impossibly mainstream. Likewise, many many more people have seen Forrest Gump in the past 20 years than have seen Citizen Kane, but that doesn't make the former not a good, if great movie.
Posted: Fri, 18th Jun 2010, 1:08am

Post 36 of 41

Serpent

Force: 5426 | Joined: 26th Dec 2003 | Posts: 6515

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

http://gametrailers.com has tons of Gameplay videos from the show now. I am loving all the Nintendo stuff, but no 3DS gameplay yet besides what was already shown.

Fun little Nintendo promo video for the 3DS with Iwata, Miyamoto, and of course, Reggie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3BZvR0_Okg

Notably for me, the Zelda gameplay, seeing it played out not in trailer form, looks incredibly fun, especially for a Zelda fan. Can't wait to feel like I'm holding the master sword.
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-zelda-skyward/101652
Item selection is brilliant. Miyamoto compared it to digging through your pocket: you hold B and then stretch the line (with axis in the center) to your item. You'll see what I mean. Kind of like opening up a pocket/pouch, and moving your hand to the item depending where it is at the bottom of the pouch. Link's animation looks just as bad as Twilight Princess, but that never bothered me. People who have played it say the Motion + is awesome for sword fighting. Slash up, down, side to side, thrust forward, spin move, raise shield, etc. etc.
Posted: Fri, 18th Jun 2010, 5:03am

Post 37 of 41

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Yeah, RPS is great and has pointed me towards some rather nifty Indie titles!

And there's nothing inherently wrong with games being casual obviously, it's just a shame when almost every big game with appropriate budget gets dumbed down.

Another good example is the omnipresent auto-heal function almost every action game has nowadays. Simply take cover for 3 seconds and even the worst fleshwound is gone. It's almost impossible to die in modern action titles if you're not completely incompetent. I kinda miss the feeling of just barely making it to the end of a stage and then realizing you're starting the next with 3% health, forcing you to avoid even a mosquito bite in order to not die instantly. razz

As good as some indie titles are in theory - like Mount & Blade for example which I really love - it's a shame they don't have even a fraction of the budget necessary to make for a proper presentation. Simply put, most Indie games are ugly. Some aren't, of course, but often, it's rather obvious they don't have the backing necessary for a modern presentation, which is a shame.

And I also get annoyed that so many games try to be movies. But that's another story.

Obviously, you're right and diversity is good and we do still have some brilliantly fun titles around. It's just fun to get into a rant really. smile

And I do miss the challenge of some of my old favorites.
Posted: Fri, 18th Jun 2010, 6:13am

Post 38 of 41

Pooky

Force: 4834 | Joined: 8th Jul 2003 | Posts: 5913

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User FXhome Movie Maker

Gold Member

Hmm I disagree with the challenge argument. I think making a game ridiculously hard like in the old days is the CHEAP way out, that artificially lengthens your game and gets in the way of immersion. Alright, so healing in 3 seconds isn't exactly realistic, but it allows you to focus on the world and gameplay rather than the fact that the game is really hard and that you really hate yourself for quick-saving at this particular location. There are still games that are really bloody hard with the quick-healing mechanic, notably Call of Duty on harder difficulties.

I think what it comes down to is what you're looking for in a game, though. For me, the most amazing games are the ones that really pull you in, get you into the story, showcase an amazing game world, and don't resort to cheap cutscenes or any of that type of stuff (ex. Mass Effect, Call of Duty, Half-Life).

Near-death experiences that were once because of difficult health pack placement are now because a frickin' helicopter just blew a hole in the tower you're standing on (Uncharted 2).
Posted: Fri, 18th Jun 2010, 8:45am

Post 39 of 41

Simon K Jones

Force: 27955 | Joined: 1st Jan 2002 | Posts: 11683

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker FXpreset Maker Windows User

FXhome Team Member

Yeah, the concept of 'challenge' is difficult, because everyone is looking for something different.

Personally, if I'm playing an action title (particularly one that also has a story), I really hate dying. I love it to be a real challenge, sure, but if I die, that actually kinda breaks the game for me. Why? Because if I'm supposed to be playing an action hero, dying is the exact opposite of what should be happening. I want to feel like Bruce Willis or Arnie.

The problem then, of course, is that it can be too easy and you just go through the motions until you get to the end.

Half Life 2 is probably the perfect game for me, because the challenge level is just right. For most of the game the first time I played it, I only died a couple of times, but I was right on the verge of death for most of the game. The difficulty was perfectly balanced for me. But that won't be the case for everyone, obviously.

I'm not sure what the solution is, to be honest. smile
Posted: Fri, 18th Jun 2010, 10:23am

Post 40 of 41

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Yeah, it's a matter of taste of course. I'm fully aware my taste is not the majority. I'm no casual gamer.

Difficulty is hard to get right indeed. If it's too hard it gets frustrating, if it's too easy it gets a bit boring - at least for me.
Hence the only shooters I still play much is the Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter ones on highest difficulty where you get shot in the face by someone you usually don't even see - just because you made a wrong step or forgot to took cover. Which is realistic.

This is what I look for. Realism like that which make me feel like I actually have to worry about getting killed instead of knowing that I can take 10 hits of a machine gun from 2 feet away and then heal in 3 seconds when I take cover behind a wall. Gets incredibly boring and uninteresting for me. The absence of the imminent danger of dying kills any tension for me.

I usually can tell by the screenshots if a game is for me or not. If a screenshot shows 4 enemies within spitting range wildly blasting their guns at me, I know it isn't for me since that's not what I imagine tense firefights to be like.

I also generally hate having to shoot at an enemy more then once or twice.

Mass Effect has great writing and is presented really well, but the gameplay itself is pretty bad for me. Call of Duty is the classic arcade shooter I'm not much interested in.

Batman AA got the feeling of being a superhero just right for me. You could die in the game, but I truly felt like being a superhero. But not an undisructable one.

World of Warcraft is pretty much the summary of evil for me. It has pretty much everything I hate about games. So I'm obviously not the majority.
Posted: Fri, 18th Jun 2010, 12:19pm

Post 41 of 41

alienux

Force: 1050 | Joined: 6th Jan 2010 | Posts: 299

CompositeLab Pro User EffectsLab Pro User Windows User

Gold Member

Sollthar wrote:

Another good example is the omnipresent auto-heal function almost every action game has nowadays. Simply take cover for 3 seconds and even the worst fleshwound is gone. It's almost impossible to die in modern action titles if you're not completely incompetent. I kinda miss the feeling of just barely making it to the end of a stage and then realizing you're starting the next with 3% health, forcing you to avoid even a mosquito bite in order to not die instantly. razz
That's pretty close to hitting the nail on the head as far as how I feel. I had an Atari 2600 as a very young kid, but I really became a gamer when the first NES came out. My two all-time favorite games from that era were Castlevania and Contra. Back then, I never thought they seemed overly hard, that was just the way they were, and I got to the point that I could beat them both (yes, even without the UUDDLRLRBA code in Contra) just about anytime I played them. Going back now, I can't get past the first 3 or 4 stages of either of them because now they seem insanely hard. The difference is that I've played modern games like you described and I've become used to how much easier they are, so when I go back to the old games, they seem impossible by comparison.

Pooky wrote:

Hmm I disagree with the challenge argument. I think making a game ridiculously hard like in the old days is the CHEAP way out, that artificially lengthens your game and gets in the way of immersion. Alright, so healing in 3 seconds isn't exactly realistic, but it allows you to focus on the world and gameplay rather than the fact that the game is really hard and that you really hate yourself for quick-saving at this particular location. There are still games that are really bloody hard with the quick-healing mechanic, notably Call of Duty on harder difficulties.
See, in general, it never felt like it was cheap back then. It was mostly because in the arcade, games were designed to get you to put more quarters in, but when those games came to a console, the difficulty stayed even though you weren't putting quarters in. Limiting you to 3 lives was a way to keep the game challenging so that you couldn't just keep hitting continue, and it forced you to become really good at the game in order to progress, so it gave a very strong sense of accomplishment. With newer games, while I've had a blast with them and have had some of the best immersion I've experienced, I've never really had to "become good" at a game in order to progress. Is that a bad thing? It depends on what you like about a game. I like challenging games, but not ludicrously frustrating games, so I like to be in situations that force me to become better at a game, rather then just allowing me to keep playing by taking cover for a few seconds to keep going.

I'm not saying that there aren't developers that don't artificially lengthen a game by making it cheap because its overly hard, but just because some developers do that, it doesn't mean that all hard games fall into this category.

So, having made those two responses, I think that there has to be a balance. If there is not enough challenge, then the sense of accomplishment is diminished, and the fun of learning to "be good" at a specific game is also lessened. Also, an important part of gaming (for me at least) is that there are consequences for actions, and if you can just hide out and heal up, there are far less consequences for bad choices, sloppy playing, and not taking the time to become good at a specific game.

On the other hand, if a game is so difficult that your frustration level gets you to the point of wanting to throw a controller or just quit playing, that can be a turn off. But then again, some of this comes down to the player. I've seen people complain that a game was hard and frustrating them too much and calling it a "cheap AI" game, while someone else enjoyed it thoroughly because it provided a challenge. There is a large degree of game design that affects all of this, but there is also the individual nature of each gamer with specific games that is also part of the equation.