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September 11, 2010

Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 9:05am

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ben3308

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Considering it's been almost a decade since the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Centers, The Pentagon, and United 93; I figured it was worth a new thread to pause for a moment and remember those that died and whose lives were changed in the events of September 11, 2001.

It's certainly easy to forget that things like the attacks on 9/11 have had as large an effect on the world as they do. But they did.

Anyhow, this thread is simply to remember the day and its significance; as I feel it bears mentioning.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 9:28am

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Sollthar

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It's also almost half a century ago since the WWF was founded in switzerland and up to this day remains one of the most influencial and important organisations to protect those lives who can't fight back: the animal wild life.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 9:31am

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ben3308

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I meant more for this thread to be for September 11th, as it means a lot to a lot of people in the world; and especially a lot to me as an American. I know the wildlife is important, but the tangent feels unnecessary.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 10:02am

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Sollthar

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September 11th was the foundation date of the WWF which is partially celebrated here, it does mean a lot to me both as a swiss and avid supporter of the WWF and it's goals.

The date bears different meaning and importance to all of us. Not to diminish the importance or tragedy of the terrorist attacks 9 years ago in any way. But since the topic was "september 11th", I thought it fit.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 1:05pm

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Fxhome Dude

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I still remember it, despite being quite young at the time. Simply tragic...
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 5:49pm

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Serpent

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Changed the world. Wonder if it was a conspiracy.
I am, of course, referring to the WWF.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 6:46pm

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mikeh

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Edit: Serpent you should show the text. Most people (including me) will think your some sort of 9/11 truther.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 6:54pm

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Serpent

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Good, that's kind of funny.

In seriousness, always send my "wishes" to families affected, even though I wasn't remotely affected by it on that level in anyone near my family or friends, despite living next to the largest naval base in the United States.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 7:02pm

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mikeh

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Serpent wrote:

Good, that's kind of funny.

In seriousness, always send my "wishes" to families affected, even though I wasn't remotely affected by it on that level in anyone near my family or friends, despite living next to the largest naval base in the United States.
I don't find it funny. Any my town was affected. We lost the most people in New Jersey. And I remember seeing the smoke hovering over the New York skyline, and being shocked as a kid about how it would be changed forever. I also remember wondering who wouldn't be coming to school the next day...
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 7:43pm

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DVStudio

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Serpent wrote:

Good, that's kind of funny.
Are you kidding me? How insensitive can you possibly be? Do you really think it's funny to be associated with people who think our governemnt orchastrated 9/11 or allowed the victims to be killed???

I know many people personally who were affected deeply by this tragedy- losing loved ones, parents, and friends- and a neighbor of mine was killed. Come on- just because you weren't affected doesn't mean anything. Ben set this thread up for a reason... to remember those who died in our communities, families, and friends. If you want to screw around and think it's funny, then don't comment.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 8:05pm

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Atom

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Come on, Serpent. Have some courtesy, man.

And don't think a snarky 'oh come on! I'm joking- and none of you were affected! or some political statement blah or it was an inside job or blah blah' will make insensitivity any more acceptable. Responses won't assuage or change that, because that's not what this thread (or remembrance of the date) should be about. It's honoring and respecting those lost, not glorifying or relishing in the tragedy itself.

Just....be more respectable, buddy. If not for your sake, than for those who take pause for the date. As a courtesy, if nothing else.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 8:18pm

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Aculag

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DVStudio wrote:

Ben set this thread up for a reason... to remember those who died in our communities, families, and friends. If you want to screw around and think it's funny, then don't comment.
Oh well he's a hero, and all that patriotic nonsense. But come on now, where else does this thread have to go? If we left it to just sympathetic remorse, there would be no room for discussion. If we're going to have a 9/11 thread, we should be open to hearing both sides.

Please remember that while almost 3,000 people died on 9/11, nearly double that (only counting US soldiers) have died in the Iraq war. So while our government may not have been responsible for the attacks on the WTC, they are sure as hell responsible for all of the civilian and military deaths since then in a completely pointless war in a completely unrelated country. Get your heads out of your asses, people.

There are claims that over 100,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed as a result of this war. So which is worse? We lost a couple of iconic buildings and a few thousand civilians, and we gained a stronger (perhaps undeserved) sense of community, and superiority. They lost their government, their cities are in ruins, and they still have to deal with an invading force that has left their country in shambles and isn't doing sh*t about it. Meanwhile, life goes on in the good ol US of A. You can feel free to drive your car to Starbucks and enjoy an afternoon without having to hear gunfire, or worry that your family is in danger. Yeah, Saddam is no longer in power, and that's a good thing. But it has nothing to do with 9/11 whatsoever.

Who are the real terrorists? Yes, it's a great shame that the 9/11 attacks occurred, but there is a much bigger picture that many americans are simply too closed-minded to realize. To me, that is the real tragedy. Whether you were personally affected by the attacks or not, not a whole lot has changed in this country because of it.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 8:33pm

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Atom

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Forget smugly trying to be 'in-your-face' to all the ignorant, blinded, fooled Americans- what a cold, disdainful way to look at the world and America. Not that parts aren't valid, but really.

Reverence man. You don't hear me waving around my finger yelling about the mosque being built or anything else ridiculously close-minded, delusional, or aggressive- why must people turn another side that way?

You can be in disagreement without 'opening the eyes' of all the people here who are treating this thread as something difference than a show-you-my-knowledge-and-how-much-clearer-I-see-the-world-than-you-'fact-a-thon'. There are many tragedies and sad aspects of humanity and war is absolutely not the answer, no. But one evil or tragedy doesn't outwrite the wrongness of another, and vis-versa. It's despicable to me for you to so cooly write-off the deaths of thousands of innocent people as 'a couple of iconic buildings and some people'.

No doubt there are worse evils and tragedies all the time in the world, but that doesn't make the reverence or honor for those lost here on this specific day in remembrance of them any less tragic, valid, or open to rudeness.

Seriously, for christ's sakes. Courtesy. Have a little bit of damn decency.

I may not have a bleeding heart all the time for Darfur, but you can bet your ass if you brought it up I wouldn't respond with such calculated and heartless comparison to diminish that tragedy's loss of life.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 8:38pm

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Aculag

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America is #1. Everybody else can f*ck off. Praise Jesus.

Hows that? wink

It's been long enough that we can look at both sides realistically and not have it called "cold and disdainful". You think I didn't freak the f*ck out when I heard about the attacks? You think I don't still think it was an awful thing? Of course I do, but I'm not going to allow myself to mourn for american citizens without also mourning for the people of Iraq, who have lost so much more than we ever will, and had nothing to do with the attacks. It's just not in my nature. Call me what you will, but I think it is exceedingly closed minded to take a moment to remember the loss of 9/11 without remembering the even greater loss to others that has occurred since. That's just inhumane.

Last edited Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 8:53pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 8:47pm

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videofxuniverse

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I think everyone in the world remember where they were or what they were doing when they heard the news. 9 years on its still a very upsetting and shocking situation even now. It makes me wish that customs all those years ago took a minute and stopped those men responsible getting on board. That very small insicnificant choice would have changed soo much and prevented everything that rippled out as a result. It really goes to show that the smallest decisions really can have a gigantic change in how things could have panned out.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 8:50pm

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Serpent

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I can't think it's funny that you mistook me for someone with extreme points of view that I was satirizing? Sorry, but it is.

And the concept of 'America' doesn't mean much to me anymore, that's just me. I don't give two sh*ts about offending our government/leaders/officials (save the founders, who actually had noble intentions). I would never post something in an attempt to offend the people or families affected, and if I did unintentionally, then the families and "offended" need to gain some perspective, because they are blinded by loss. I'm not going to censor myself to sound like a sympathetic soccer mom.

I'm sure it's selfish, but for example, my friend was killed in an avalanche. When people joke about avalanches, well, I know the feeling. But I refrain from commenting, because it's just dark humor, it's less emotional for others, and after 10 years, lightening the mood of a thread doesn't seem like such a bad idea (again, I'm not suggesting we forget it, there are plenty of tragedies that mean a lot to me from a loong span of time). And again, it's not like I said anything completely "SouthParkish" where they use dark humor to extremes to make points when they completely disregard the feelings of others, because it's satire. And as Aculag put it, it's good to have a little bit. I expected the -1s (kind of, I certainly had higher expectations though), but come on, you acted like I was vaguely associating myself with Naziism. Some people I know and like, even respect, are 9/11 skeptics, including Matt Bellamy of Muse (even though I disagree completely with all of them and any current theories).

Anyways, I'm always up for some craziness in a thread, so keep it comin'. And no, I'm not kidding you DVStudio, no jokes.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 8:57pm

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Aculag

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Serpent wrote:

I'm not going to censor myself to sound like a Fox News correspondent.
Fixed it for ya. wink
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 9:24pm

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jawajohnny

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I still remember that day in fourth grade when our school went into lockdown... but they didn't tell us what had happened. We didn't learn until we got home.

Nine years later... I have to say I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed in the growing number (but I'm not saying "all", "everyone" or a majority") of ignorant people who are harboring animosity towards all Muslims... when in reality the terrorism comes from a tiny extremist group. A tiny extremist group that now poses essentially zero threat to us. It seems to me that an alarming number of people don't realize this, and in their misconception, they believe that anything Muslim is bad. I'm hearing about crazy things like the proposed "Koran burning" on the news. I know a few Muslim friends who are increasingly experiencing uncomfortable situations and conversations because of their religion. One more alarming thing I'll throw in... is that in a recent poll, 24% of people answered that they believe President Obama is Muslim.

I'm not saying these are the views of anyone here... I just mention it as a warning. As we remember 9/11... let us also keep our facts... and our perspectives in order.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 9:56pm

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videofxuniverse

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Very true. Without turning it into a religious debate, the christian crusaders in the old testament where verociously more violent than any rspectable muslim today. The problem is there are a small amounto of people that take the bits they like rom the koran and add their own take on it to manipulate it to their own cause. add a war with a load of western foreigners on their 'holy' land then its a mixture more than enough to corrput others that your way is the better one to follow.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 9:58pm

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DVStudio

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Good Serpent, glad we're on the same page then.

I agree, anyone with hatred towards all Muslims for this, or any group besides those responsible, goes against everything we stand for as a country. No group or individual should feel uncomfortable in a situation when they had absolutely nothing to do with this. We all know that. The only ones who should be held accountable are the people behind the attack and those who support it or helped in anyway. Not innocent civilians who are labeled simply for their religion. And the burning of the Koran is incredibly close-minded and very offensive. Although, I do think the pastor has said it will not happen. But simply the thought of carrying this out is despicable.

In my opinion, Iraq had nothing to do with this either- yes Suddam Hussein was an oppressive dictator, but there was no proof of a link between al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein. I believe that the War in Iraq should not have been/should not be justified by using the 9/11 attacks, because there is no proof.

I remember getting home that day and couldn't believe the pictures on the news of the atacks and how widespread it was. Absoultely shocking and there is still obvious pain from this, that simply won't be healed.

I respect your opinions, but let's just keep in mind the families/friends/co-workers of those innocent people who were killed nine years ago whether they were in the towers, passengers on the planes, or the rescue workers and first responders just doing their job. The terrorists took down the towers, but they will not take down America. Let's keep this kind guys, alright? Nothing wrong with any debate, but let's all be respectful.

Boy, the mods have a mess to clean up wink
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 10:08pm

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Atom

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The thing to all this is, though: This isn't about America. It's not the 4th of July, it's not a national holiday, and despite the effect the event had on my nation, ultimately there is no country that this tragedy is directly correlated to. Was it aimed at America? Sure. But the effect and loss isn't just here, and this isn't all about one country. It's totally besides the point, because ultimately the victims, the innocent, weren't 'America'.

No, it was people. So debate the 'idea' of America and what it means all you all want, I think this is a day to be reverent and mournful to a tragedy. Is it 'pathetic' or some other snarky word that I don't do the same for other tragedies? No, not really. 9/11 is something very much ingrained into my conscience, it affected the end of my childhood, and it's something I feel necessary to mourn for. As do many others.

So you can bastardize what I say, what others feel, and want to do all you want. It's just going to make you look like an asshole. This is just so inappropriate, I don't know what to say. You may have valid points, and I'll concede that- but the manner and forum (no kidding) in which they're being presented- at least to me- just seems to distasteful. So call me overly-sensitive or hot-headed all you want.

I've no time for snarky sons-of-bitches that don't have the decency to know when to say what where even when they've obviously got the capacity and intellect to know all about all sides and present it (elsewhere) in an informative and thought/discussion-provoking way. But for here, I have no words. I'm not a red-blooded conservative or some ignorant hilly-billy after all, I'm a goddamn liberal. And an opinionated one at that! But I know when to say when in instances like these. You want to bring politics into it, at least get your cliches right.

Honestly, I just can't stay in this. And because of that, I'll duck out before it gets any worse.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 10:43pm

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Aculag

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Atom wrote:

The thing to all this is, though: This isn't about America.

Atom wrote:

Is it 'pathetic' or some other snarky word that I don't do the same for other tragedies? No, not really. 9/11 is something very much ingrained into my conscience.
Yeah, because you're an american. You identify yourself as an american. You're not going to spend any time mourning the earthquake in Haiti on its anniversary because you're not Haitian. So in that sense, 9/11 is distinctly about america, because the lives lost were those of american citizens, and on american soil. Why do you think our politicians have let this define the country for the past decade? They parade our resilience as if we've actually done anything to deserve it. We have moved on, and that's all.

Atom wrote:

my nation
Here's a big difference between us, and why we will never see eye to eye on this. This is not "my nation", this is "the country I happened to be born in, and currently reside in." If this country were invaded, and taken over, I'd be one of those guys saying "Yeah! This should have happened a long time ago!", not taking up arms to defend it. I don't identify myself as an american, but as an earthling.

Last edited Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 10:46pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 10:45pm

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Pooky

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Here's the deal, though, right: I completely agree with Atom that there is nothing wrong with mourning the people that died on 9/11, it's fully warranted and tragic. Keep that in mind as you read the rest of my post.

What I also think, however, is that not also talking about how 9/11 has affected us is ignoring a very important fact: the future is something we have an effect on, unlike the past. As in, continuing to kill off free will and continuing to destroy other countries is the worst thing we can do to honor those that died on 9/11. Let's avoid the next 9/11, right?

And the only way to do that is to fix current issues. That's how I see it.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 10:50pm

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ben3308

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Okay, well I intended this to be more of a remembrance/memorial thing to honor those affected by the events of September 11th, and to discuss things to that extent, not speculate the reasons behind the events.

Terrorists didn't just fly a plane into a big building, they coordinated an attack against the citizens of the United States and hijacked not one plane, but four at the same time; flying them all into different places. I posted this thread to also remind people that it wasn't just the twin towers that day, it was also the Pentagon and the passengers of United 93, who were downed on (what has been presumed to be the target) the way to the White House or the United States capitol.

The victims of the attacks don't represent American, but they do represent Americans; and were deemed appropriate killed solely because of the nation they were presently occupying. 9/11 has affected much more than Americans, but it was an attack on America, the American government, and the American people. And that's a big deal to a lot of us. Some think the notions of pride and patriotism are intolerable in today's world because they promote unilateral methodology - I disagree.

There is, at the end of the day, an importance to me realizing that 9/11 hit everyone, but that I should realize my obligation as an American to support my country, condemn our aggressor, and use my own personal principles to help better the place in which I live.

"America", to some citizens, is just where we live. That's fine for them. But it's more than that to me. And there's nothing about that I find foolish or naive. Just as I would gladly defend my family, I gladly support and see value in the United States as something deeper than a collection of people on a landmass. In the same way I have pride and respect for Texas more than most would agree with. biggrin

Anyhow, this thread has totally derailed from what I intended - though not south of what I expected. Hopefully we can wrap things up.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 10:52pm

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Serpent

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@Pooky: The next 9/11 takes only one psychopath. You can't ignore history, and I know you're not saying that, but someone will do something to piss off a group of people who have something in common. It will never change. C'est la vie.
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 11:08pm

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Aculag

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Serpent wrote:

It will never change.
It can change if a certain thing happens. But that certain thing is so controversial that mentioning it would spark the end of this thread. Also, it won't happen for perhaps hundreds of years, but I have enough faith in humanity as a whole to believe that it will happen one day. smile To me, our civilization has two options: allow this one certain thing to happen, or be destroyed. We'll see. Well, WE won't likely see, but someone will one day. wink
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 11:17pm

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Pooky

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@Serpent - True, but I was mainly being utopian to get my point across. razz

@Aculag - I have trouble seeing how that could happen on a global scale. Hasn't ever happened in the thousands of years (that we know about) of human history, why in this millenium? Keep in mind you have to take into account the exponential nature of human births, and also the potential personal freedom issues. Maybe if the principles were applied to some new human colony on another planet, or something like that. Or after a gigantic cataclysm. Organically, though?

@Ben - Interested in knowing what you think about the concept of "nationalism" in regards to its role in worldwide conflicts. As in, wouldn't people not automatically becoming huge fans of whatever place they happen to be born in reduce conflicts of interest and opinion? You know, working together?
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 11:28pm

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Aculag

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Pooky wrote:

@Aculag - I have trouble seeing how that could happen on a global scale. Hasn't ever happened in the thousands of years (that we know about) of human history, why in this millenium? Keep in mind you have to take into account the exponential nature of human births, and also the potential personal freedom issues. Maybe if the principles were applied to some new human colony on another planet, or something like that. Or after a gigantic cataclysm. Organically, though?
I don't really think it'll happen anytime soon, but as we advance, we will inevitably have no choice but to either surrender to a perspective change, or hang on to "the before times". Either way, it'll have to be something huge that effects the entire global population at once. And I don't think that means worldwide destruction. Some sort of vast enlightenment about the nature of the universe that flips the current perspective on its ear. Confirmation of extraterrestrial life, perhaps. But you're right, there'll always be those people who cling to the past.

I sure hope we're talking about the same thing. wink
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 11:30pm

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videofxuniverse

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One Thing i have noticed is that this whole 9/11 thing seems to dominate everything else. True today is the anniversary so it is perfectly fine to mention it and remember those lost, however this may just be me, but I feel that it is always reminded that america was the only victim in all this and nobody else in the world gets a look in. You have to remember that in 2005 here in the UK we had a repeat attack on our underground/subway it was our 9/11 but on a slightly smaller scale. true not as many died but people did die and it caused mayhem on 7/7 and it was awoken all over again. I hardly ever hear anything about the lives lost there or even the incident itself. Then you have the attack in Bali as well, livs there were lost too. They tried again to blow up an airport in scotland but they failed and were beaten down by a bunch of angry scots, as they say "we don't tolerate any crap from our own people so they wern't going to get off lightly."

anyhow im not trying to come off disrespectful or unsympothetic here, but i remember posting a rememberance thread on our 7/7 on a forum. it angered me because someone said "yes and not forgetting those at 9/11 too." this reply actually angered me because i was lke "look not being funny, but we hear about 9/11 all the time and for once could we actually keep this to 7/7 for once."
Posted: Sat, 11th Sep 2010, 11:54pm

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ben3308

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Pooky wrote:

@Ben - Interested in knowing what you think about the concept of "nationalism" in regards to its role in worldwide conflicts. As in, wouldn't people not automatically becoming huge fans of whatever place they happen to be born in reduce conflicts of interest and opinion? You know, working together?
It would, but that's not the world we live in. The world we live in is ever-changing, and some countries are more defined than others. I'm old enough to where, if I wanted to, I could live somewhere other than where I was born - but I don't want to, because I like living in America, I like the freedoms and liberties my country affords me (which, despite whatever anyone wants to say about conspiracies, CCTV, gov't corruption, et al - is nothing compared to, say, China or other places) and I like the culture here. The culture of consumption or labor or media or whatever - it's sometimes bad, but American culture is unique to the United States (yes, the US landmass where all citizens are born, that blunt piece of earth in continental North America) and that makes me a part of that culture - and that's something I have grown to appreciate.

And it would be great if the world could get together in doing something great for each other. But that's not the nature of the human condition. So I let the buck stop at my country in terms of how much I associate myself with others. That's a pretty substantial association still. I'm not a member of the world or the human race individually, I was born in America and am the person I am today because I was born in this country, because I grew up and was raised in this country. Remember I believe strongly in religion and think that I've had a very blessed life, and uniquely being an American has probably had a lot to do with that.

Would the abolition of nationalism decrease world conflict? Maybe. Probably.

But being separate nations allows us to organize ourselves a little bit more in the fabric of humanity, and it cultures us to be different people. Keep in mind everyone has individualism to a large extent, and that nationalism doesn't diminish that - it just serves to separate the context of humankind of a larger scale. But you know what, religion does that too. So does race. And gender. And I don't see any of these delineations of existence as negative. Nationalism may, on a pragmatic scale, be the source of things negative - but that doesn't bother me. I like American nationalism versus a Wild West every-man-for-himself attitude.

I've been elsewhere. I've seen the notable differences between countries, even ones that seem similar; like the UK-to-France, or Canada-to-the-US. And I like the US the way it is, generally. It's the right place for me, and I prefer the life and people here because that's just how I live my life. I don't think I could live in, say, Spain because that lifestyle is totally opposite of how I live (though I have a bunch of family in Spain). I'm sure if I grew up in Spain and was raised in that environment, I would think differently - but I wasn't raised there, don't have a nostalgic, quasi-familial connection to that place, so I don't feel that way.

This doesn't mean I'm beyond changing my mind on anything - just that I solidify who I am based on my thoughts and experiences, and I would be lying if I said being American didn't considerably help in cultivating such thoughts and experiences. It is this, and my assumption that others have even less propensity to change than myself, that I take it upon myself to feel pride for my country and adopt a partially nationalist attitude. I have no reservations against those who don't share my opinion - because I know there are plenty out there who do indeed share my same mindset, are proud to be an American, and are people with whom I can share common interest.

You see, it has less to do with wanting to be part of the crowd and more to do with defining myself. Being an American helps to define me, whether I like it or not. So I embrace it and appreciate it. Simple as that.

Last edited Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 12:00am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 6:04am

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Thrawn

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For those of you that don't care about America or the events that took place on September 11th 2001 need to just stay out of this thread. This wasn't designed to start a debate about how tolerant or intolerant America is of muslims (as much as I'd agree with what had been posted), or even about how you are a citizen of the world. This is about taking a second to stop, remember, and mourn for those killed. While I didn't lose any family or friends in the attack, 9/11 affected me in a way few other things have. And I'm fairly sure the majority of Americans agree with me on that one.

So please, stop perverting the thread and its purpose.

Thank you Ben for the thread.
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 6:39am

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Serpent

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It's September 12th now though.

I don't think anyone doesn't care or say they didn't. As for the thread's purpose, that's the internet. You can't just tell the others to stay out. Why would I even bother coming here if it were routine like that? FXHome started in 2001 or so, 9 years of "It's sad, prayers, wishes, etc." would get old. And this is an international forum. Do we need a "best wishes" thread for every tragedy or violent occurrence? Because it's not like any of this is technically off-topic. And no one is telling you you can't send your prayers and wishes to the families and stuff like that. Why the expression of a fairly common alternative point of view bothers some posters to that degree perplexes me.
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 6:59am

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Pooky

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Nice post Ben, definitely see where you're coming from.

Thrawn - as you wish.
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 8:47am

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ben3308

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Serpent wrote:

Do we need a "best wishes" thread for every tragedy or violent occurrence?
It's one thread that has re-existed for its ninth time in almost a decade. That's hardly anything. The problem right here is assuming that September 11th was just one small tragedy that people have blown out of proportion. It's because people have taken it so seriously, so deeply in the context of terrorist attacks that makes it more significant; not least of all to others internationally.

I mentioned Spain in an earlier post - I remember several years back when there was a terrorist attack in Madrid and a bunch of people were killed, and I was worried about my family and scared. Yes, that too was a tragedy. And yes, more people have died collectively in, say, Sudanese genocide than the events of September 11th. But the difference is that the events were unprecedented in the scope of the effect they had on the American people and government - hell, we went TO WAR over it - and so it bears creating a thread to remember the actual people in the events, the actual losses suffered; if only to remove all the symbolism and punditry anyone has added to the day and think about who was really lost, and how that hits us.

Were that train bombing in Madrid to have been a part of an attack on major Spanish political epicenters and have caused Spain to go to a war that would define it for the next decade, then yes, I would probably have created a thread for that - to re-contextualize the actual loss the day of that tragedy, and to keep it in our memory.
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 10:11am

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Sollthar

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It's just a shame the majority of victims die in wars and catastrophes without any significant effect on the world or how we feel or what we do so don't get the same attention - The forgotten ones that never got a forum topic anywhere and never will. That's all.

With that in mind, I'd suggest we include them in our thoughts and prayers as well if we're going to start.

Last edited Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 3:59pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 2:39pm

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mikeh

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Aculag wrote:

I don't identify myself as an american, but as an earthling.
Then why live in the United States? Why reap the benefits of living in a country that your not proud enough to say your a member of.

It just seems hypocritical to say that you would support an invasion of our country from a foreign enemy. Do you realize that suddenly the freedoms you take for granted would be gone?

If you are an "earthling", where do you expect to get protection from? That's what was different with the United States and other nations when it was founded; protection of the Citizens from the government. Yes you might argue that its not so (blah, conspiracy theories etc) much as it used to be. But still, it's a hell of a lot better than other countries. And in the end, you can still vote out any political officials you don't like.

But if you don't believe that the rights of American citizens are worth anything, why do you live here? Assuming that you had the option to move would you want to? And would your standard of living be any better somewhere else? I would guess not.
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 3:18pm

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Evman

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LtMcMurphy on 9/11/04 wrote:

911 was a sad for america. Some people are insensitive but they shouldnt be! Here is my favorite video: it is a tribute to the terrible attacks on our country sad

http://www.dennisandronnie.com/files/tribute.wmv

hope you are touched like i was sad
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 3:59pm

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Sollthar

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Come on. We all may think whatever we want about 9/11, America, the Iraq war, patriotism or threads like these - but to make fun of those who died, especially in an open context read by people who have personally lost someone, is just completely unasked for and out of place.
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 4:12pm

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Evman

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On September 11th, 2004, I posted a thread about 9/11. Back then I took this sort of thing very seriously, and had a very different interpretation of that day than I do now.

Part of what made me start questioning that view was that video that LtMcMurphy posted. Initially, I thought it was horrible (and said so in the thread). I'm also fairly certain that I rated that post down 6 years ago. Now, all the negative ratings have been removed.

And for good reason.

http://fxhome.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15463&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=9+11&start=15

Aculag wrote:

evman101 wrote:

hm. that is a sort of demeaning way to portray those events mcmurphy...
No it isn't. It's hardly making fun of it. It's making LIGHT of it. Huge difference. If someone made a "tribute" with people sitting there laughing at people dying and saying "OMG LOL IT WAS BUSH ALL ALONG!!!1 IM GLAD THOSE IDIOTS DIED LOL" THAT would be demeaning.

Waser wrote:

Couldn't agree more aculag and murphey. The movie actually makes some pretty good points if you think about it. How music affects something, and, as you stated before, the difference between making fun of, and making light of.

So yeah. I believed it worth reposting.
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 5:31pm

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videofxuniverse

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mikeh wrote:

Aculag wrote:

I don't identify myself as an american, but as an earthling.
Then why live in the United States? Why reap the benefits of living in a country that your not proud enough to say your a member of.

Just because you are born and raised in a country does not mean that you have to be proud of it. It's not compulsary and i also believed you had free speech.

Most americans seem patriotic and are always saying "proud to be american" however not everyone has to feel the same way, especially those who have had a hard life living under its rules or do not agree with the wars its fights.

I'm British through and through, however I am definatly not Proud of it, especially now what its becoming. I think its actually now politically incorrect to say you are proud to be british in case you offend someone. That said I wouldn't live anywhere else andI don't feel I havto be proud of Being british
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 6:13pm

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Serpent

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Hey hey ben, I wasn't saying we don't need this thread... I was just saying that not every thread like this needs to be JUST "best wishes to the families, sad day." Christ, ease up peeps... And do we really need winky faces after everything that's not meant to be taken so seriously? Anyways, I'm out, I've said how I feel about this, clearly not allowed. Only kind of responses I'm getting is anger based on out of context bits of my post. How about before reacting, you try to see what I was trying to say. I was simply pointing out that I don't think very many people on FXHome simply don't care about September 11th, 2001. We were all here.

Those who wanted the thread to be just that, well sorry, better luck next year. wink
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 6:45pm

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Evman

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It's alright Serpent. No one takes the time to actually think about or analyze anything anymore, and instead readily default to an automatic, simplified, emotion fueled "YES/NO" standpoint on basically anything anyone says.

It's been evidenced so far plenty of times in this thread alone, not to mention in contemporary political "debate"...

*cough*groundzeromosquethatisn'treallyamosquenorisitongroundzero*cough*
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 6:50pm

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Aculag

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mikeh wrote:

Aculag wrote:

I don't identify myself as an american, but as an earthling.
Then why live in the United States? Why reap the benefits of living in a country that your not proud enough to say your a member of.
For one thing, I don't really have a choice. It's a huge deal to move to, and gain citizenship in another country. As soon as I am financially stable enough, I will move to either England or Canada. It's not that I would prefer to live somewhere else because the way the country is run is so different from anywhere else (Everyone's got problems), it's just that I've lived in this country for 27 years, and I'm ready to live somewhere else for a while. Just because I was born here doesn't mean I have to stay forever. That's just silly.

I also think you're misunderstanding me with the rest of your post. You're pretty young, so it's not surprising. You have the "you don't like it, you can GET OUT" mentality. You ask "where do you expect to get protection from?" What is it that I need protection from, exactly? I can fend for myself, thanks.

I should also mention, that back in the 9/11 days, I was a pretty conservative republican kid. I went to church, I voted for Bush, I supported the war. But as time wore on, and I realized how purely evil the whole thing was, all of that went away. You could once have called me "proud to be an american", but not anymore.

ben3308 wrote:

But the difference is that the events were unprecedented in the scope of the effect they had on the American people and government - hell, we went TO WAR over it -
Yeah, and this is why the rest of the world doesn't look at us with sympathy because we experienced a tragic loss. They look at us with resentment because instead of coming together as a people, and more efficiently defending our country from home, we reacted to that loss with even more violence. It's like a little kid having his candy stolen on the playground, and proceeding to kick the sh*t out of the two nearest kids, even though they had nothing to do with it. Spain didn't go out and take revenge. Most countries don't. But since America is the big man on campus, and its citizens expect cowboy reactions, that's what we get.
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 8:54pm

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Terminal Velocity

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As a newcomer to the thread who hasn't read every single post:
I don't see why this has to be such a big issue. 9/11 was a horrifying event, and so far there doesn't seem to be any conflict as to that. It's just that people are putting it in different perspectives, from differing viewpoints. Some look at it as an American, others as a non-American. Some look at the event alone, and other are comparing it to other tragedies that make it seem comparatively minor. Personally I think that all events like this should be viewed with the same reverence as this one, and that isn't necessarily true. So people point that out, thus appearing to diminish the respect for 9/11. Which makes people mad.

That video kind of made me wince. Yeah, it's not really making fun of 9/11, so logically it might not be considered offensive, but it still doesn't sit well with me. And it's not because I'm American. I wouldn't like it any more to see a joke video of the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombings. Personally I just don't think this kind of thing should really be made fun of.
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 10:55pm

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ben3308

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Aculag wrote:

You ask "where do you expect to get protection from?" What is it that I need protection from, exactly? I can fend for myself, thanks.
I normally hate the whole "they protect so we can live" mantra of the American military and government, but honestly - if you lived in China or Korea or most of the whole continent of Africa, do you think you'd be able to totally fend for yourself?

There is seriously a benefit to living in not just a developed country, but one free from military control or government oppression. We live in different places, so we seldom realize it; but my family that lived in Shanghai thought they could 'fend for themselves' because they had ties through the American Embassy when they lived there - but no, it was still a total shitstorm whenever there was any even small conflict with the police or government (buying things, doing business, etc) and my uncle almost got arrested on a number of occasions for simply being American and exchanging money with Chinese nationals. And that's China, which isn't even supposed to be a huge oppressed country or anything like North Korea or Iran.

There are very real dangers to living in so so so many places in the world; dangers we don't even think about until we are confronted by them - and that's why we should be thankful that living in America, or England, or Switzerland or Canada we don't have such worries.

Again, I don't agree at all with the "you NEED these freedoms that are paid for you by the country!" attitude, but at the end of the day the "free world" is not a concept unanimous to all "members of the Earth" as someone put it earlier in the thread. There are just so many places that don't share any of the democratic notions of personal freedom and liberty that yes, it is kind of preposterous for you to assume you can "fend for yourself". Arrogant, even.
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 11:08pm

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Aculag

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Well I never said I wanted to live in an underdeveloped country, did I? And even if I did, why would you think that I would assume the same freedoms and liberties that I've always had? I'm not the kind of person who would go to a foreign land and be like "I'm an american! You can't treat me like this!" You're misunderstanding me almost more than mikeh did.

I don't feel the need to defend my position any further, and I certainly don't need you, or anyone else, to agree with me...
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 11:24pm

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ben3308

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I didn't say you expect to be treated like an American. I said it's arrogant to assume that you can, invariably, "fend for yourself". Your words, not mine.

And I think that's arrogant and foolish. And, of course, you're free to disagree. But I'm not misunderstanding you. What's an underdeveloped country? Is Mexico underdeveloped? How about Russia?
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 11:32pm

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Serpent

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Aculag wrote:

I will move to either England or Canada.
Something tells me Aculag is thinking more along the lines of England, or possibly even Canada. How is that arrogant of foolish? I too will one day settle in another country, for a time.
Posted: Sun, 12th Sep 2010, 11:43pm

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ben3308

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The whole underlying assumption of "fend for myself" is arrogant and foolish. You mention two places that yes, are safe. But not living outside of the US, I don't think people think through all the way what kind of liberty they're surrendering - they assume it's all good. Which is why I mention Mexico and Russia. Those are supposed to be developed places. But you know what, I think it would be foolish to assume you'd be alright by yourself in those places.

Yes, in Canada and England things are fine. They're fine in plenty of places around the world. But there are even more places out there that are indeed problematic for someone who assumes they are fine out there by themselves.
Posted: Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 12:09am

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Aculag

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I think that's just indicative of the large amount of the american population who see the outside world as a harsh, and violent place. I think an intelligent person like myself would do just fine living somewhere like Russia. Hell, I very much want to visit South Korea. I know for a fact that I wouldn't be "safe" there, but I don't really care. I would do what I can to stay out of trouble, and that's all I can do. If I end up getting killed or robbed or kidnapped, so be it. Any one of those things could happen to someone just about anywhere you go. I don't expect Internet, or fast food, or comfortable living arrangements, etc. etc. etc. Again, that's the point of living somewhere else.

The point of my living in another country would be to get a taste of their customs and lifestyle, which I would obviously study (and learn the language if necessary) before I go. I don't have a strong desire to engage in activities that will bring me danger. This wouldn't be me leaving the country on a whim. This would be years of planning and preparing to completely change my lifestyle. Again you seem to be very much misunderstanding me.

You also assume I will be all alone. Not sure why that is either...

I bet you're the kind of person who wears the money belt under your pants when you travel.
Posted: Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 12:25am

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Serpent

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I've lived in multiple countries and traveled to over 30, 5 with others just my age. I think I'd be alright in another good country.
Posted: Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 12:29am

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Aculag

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You arrogant bastard.
Posted: Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 3:56am

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RodyPolis

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Aculag wrote:

...which I would obviously study (and learn the language if necessary) before I go...
You really are trying not be an American aren't you? Learn the language of another land? Aren't they supposed to know your language wherever you go? smile
Posted: Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 6:27am

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Sollthar

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You're always welcome in switzerland, Aculag. It's nice, clean, almost everyone speaks english and you'd have a democracy instead of a president who decides for you. Did I mention all the cheese and chocolate yet? razz


PS: I think what you're trying to say is lost among most people. That has little to do with america or any country and more to do with how simplified people look at their surroundings. A distanced, more objective view like you have it, will be often misunderstood. I know.
Posted: Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 6:30am

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DX6channel

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Two days and look what has happened to this thread.
Posted: Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 6:39am

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Aculag

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DX6channel wrote:

Two days and look what has happened to this thread.
More like two hours.

Ps. Sollthar, Switzerland sounds like my kind of joint.
Posted: Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 1:43pm

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Rockfilmers

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Every country has it's ups and downs, it all really depends on your opinion on what is "best". I really don't have too much of a desire to leave the US because I personally believe there is not enough wrong with it compared to the good. I'm sure its that way for the UK or Switzerland, or most developed countries.


Just remember the grass is always greener on the other side.
Posted: Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 1:57pm

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danielgwood

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For some people (I don't know whether this is true for Aculag, but it certainly is for me), its as much about leaving as going somewhere new. Regardless of what I think of the UK, I would be quite happy to live somewhere else later in life, assuming I can afford it.
Posted: Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 2:11pm

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Rockfilmers

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For some people (I don't know whether this is true for Aculag, but it certainly is for me), its as much about leaving as going somewhere new. Regardless of what I think of the UK, I would be quite happy to live somewhere else later in life, assuming I can afford it.
Oh yeah totally for me too. You can live some where though without immigrating though which is what I would do if I had the money. I would just still love to call the United States home because it is my home. If anyone wants to immigrate, best of luck to them. I hope they find happiness.
Posted: Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 2:14pm

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Simon K Jones

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Without wanting to get even more tangential, the assumptions that the US (or England) are 'safe' are a little strange, given some of the crime rates. There have been multiple topics over the years on FXhome in which Americans say that they need to privately own guns in order to be safe, for example, whereas I live in a country in which I don't need a gun to feel safe. Does that mean that England is 'safer' than the US? Not really - it really is all relative and subjective and there's not much point trying to rank countries in terms of how safe they are without going into detail and context.

Anyway, I think the reason 9/11 stuff sparks people off is fairly simple:

While the event itself primarily affected American citizens, the response has affected just about everybody else. The greatest tragedy of all is that 9/11 led to so much more tragedy, all around the globe.

That's what separates it from other terrorist events. On the 9/11 date two specific things happened: there was a terrorist attack on New York and other locations in the US, and the historical direction of the entire human race was altered for hundreds or thousands of years. That alteration could be good or bad, there's no way to tell at this point.

When you're talking on that kind of epic scale, it's no wonder that a topic such as this causes some heat. Having just read through it I would say that the majority of people responded to the differing viewpoints very intelligently and maturely.

One thing nobody has the right to say on FXhome, though, is that anybody should 'stay out' of a topic. FXhome is a public place for people from all around the world. Inevitably people will have VASTLY different viewpoints and opinions. That's what makes this place (and humanity in general) worthwhile. If you want to talk only with people that hold the same views as you, this probably isn't the right venue.

Freedom isn't about everybody agreeing: it's about everybody being able to have different opinions without being persecuted or dismissed. If you truly value your freedoms and want to honour the memory of those that died on September 11th, you should defend people's right to disagree.

Last edited Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 2:27pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 2:25pm

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Rockfilmers

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Freedom isn't about everybody agreeing: it's about everybody being able to have different opinions without being persecuted or dismissed. If you truly value your freedoms and want to honour the memory of those that died on September 11th, you should defend people's right to disagree.
I don't think anyone could have said it better.
Posted: Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 8:18pm

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Thrawn

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Tarn wrote:

One thing nobody has the right to say on FXhome, though, is that anybody should 'stay out' of a topic. FXhome is a public place for people from all around the world. Inevitably people will have VASTLY different viewpoints and opinions. That's what makes this place (and humanity in general) worthwhile. If you want to talk only with people that hold the same views as you, this probably isn't the right venue.

Freedom isn't about everybody agreeing: it's about everybody being able to have different opinions without being persecuted or dismissed. If you truly value your freedoms and want to honour the memory of those that died on September 11th, you should defend people's right to disagree.
Ha, I knew I wouldn't quite fit under the catagory of respectful and mature.. wink

In my defense, I was in no way forcing anyone to stay out of the thread. I just thought it most respectful if we didn't stray from the topic at hand, which was to remember the events on 9/11 and the loss thatt America has suffered. Also, I cannot help but raise an eyebrow at the lecture about freedom of speech on FXhome, as I've been told multiple times to keep my opinion to myself, and censored on other occations by my posts being deleted. For my opinion, mind you, not any foul language or what not. But perhaps that doesn't count?
Posted: Mon, 13th Sep 2010, 9:03pm

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Pooky

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Without knowing what your posts were about, our freedom ends where another person's starts, so any talk against their own freedom, or any calls for the oppression of a certain minority, can and should be shunned. It's a bit contradictory, but you have to enforce freedom, much like a free market requires policing to work correctly.
Posted: Tue, 14th Sep 2010, 5:16pm

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Pooky

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Thought this was funny razz

Posted: Tue, 14th Sep 2010, 7:41pm

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Aculag

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That is funny. But it's the kind of thing that, were it posted on the first couple of pages of this thread, would have gotten a whole bunch of negative ratings. Oh how sensitivity wanes! wink
Posted: Tue, 14th Sep 2010, 8:51pm

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Pooky

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Indeed, and that's a good thing! Being open to changing your stance is necessary for healthy discourse smile

Anyway, I have a question for Solllllll about Switzerland:

I'm actually looking at a bunch of countries as possible candidates for where I might move for my master's degree in 2 years (USA, Australia, England, etc.). Not that I have anything against Canada, but I'm up for some adventure. How's Switzerland for someone that speaks both French and English? Does everybody there speak at least one of those two? Is it student-friendly (read: cheap)? Are there always original english versions of movies in cinemas there? Is public transit good? Etc. smile

Last edited Tue, 14th Sep 2010, 8:57pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 14th Sep 2010, 8:56pm

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Paradox Pictures

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Pooky wrote:

Thought this was funny razz

I's more complicated than that.


It thought FXhome doesn't allow threads like these.
Posted: Tue, 14th Sep 2010, 8:59pm

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Pooky

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Yeah, obviously, it's meant as a joke, in part because the image of confused Canadians being tortured is funny (and I'm canadian). I think what's not allowed on the forums is hate, discrimination, flamewars and such. Mature discourse is fine, so refute if you want to (though try to quote more than Fox, if that's ok with you).
Posted: Tue, 14th Sep 2010, 9:58pm

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Staff Only

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Pooky wrote:

Does everybody there speak at least one of those two?
I'm not Sollllll, but I can tell you that Switzerland has three main languages depending on where you are. I gather Soll lives in the German part (I have visited Geneva, which is Swiss-French, several times and I'm going back there soon). So in the Swiss-French part everyone speaks at least one of those two. In the other parts people who don't speak English will most likely not speak French either. To quote wiki:

Wikipedia wrote:

Switzerland comprises three main linguistic and cultural regions: German, French, and Italian, to which the Romansh-speaking valleys are added. The Swiss therefore do not form a nation in the sense of a common ethnic or linguistic identity. The strong sense of belonging to the country is founded on the common historical background, shared values (federalism, direct democracy, neutrality) and Alpine symbolism.
I just think that sounds awesome. Imagine having a country based on shared values rather than the "My neighbor speaks the same language as me, has the same skin color, goes to the same church, therefore he/she is much better than those scary foreigners even though the foreigner might vote for the same party as I do, share my ideals and my neighbor might not" many other countries are still doing.

Anyway I thought the French part was pretty...well French in that they weren't very fond of English, but that was 5 years ago. Sollthar will have to answer for more up to date details. Also (and I do not know this) I think Swiss-French is quite close to actual French whereas Swiss-German is quite different from German and they don't necessarily understand each other (again; Sollthar will know).

Aculag wrote:

That is funny. But it's the kind of thing that, were it posted on the first couple of pages of this thread, would have gotten a whole bunch of negative ratings. Oh how sensitivity wanes! wink
That is so true. I can't help but think of how baffled my grandmother would be if I tried to explain to her the "How to" of talking in a forum-thread. It's really quite a unique and new way of communicating. Heck I don't even know what I'm doing half the time (I'm still wondering if I should be posting info on Switzerland in such a sensitive thread confused) and it changes from forum to forum.

Sorry I couldn't contribute to the actual topic, but I feel everything has been said in here already. I have some strong feelings on the whole turning the day into a national holiday in the guise of "remembering the dead". We all know it's really about how America (and a lot of the rest of the world) were very scared and humiliated that day, otherwise 9/11 would be a small day compared to remembering for example the 2004 tsunami, and countless other times more people died in mass. We all know it was the event, and not the people this is about. Ben however said he wanted this thread to remember the people on a day when everyone is focusing on the event so whining about that in this thread is irrelevant. My heart does go out to all the people who lost someone or knew someone who lost someone. I truly can't imagine what it was like to live in Manhattan after the attack, but it must have been horrible.
Posted: Tue, 14th Sep 2010, 11:00pm

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Pooky

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Dynamic discussions are what make forums fun and interesting; instead of letting the thread die now that it's Sept 14 and people have posted their condolences and the like, let's keep this interesting tangent going!

Thanks for the wiki, though admittedly I was looking for first-hand experience from someone who's been living there for years. The small details, if you will smile
Posted: Tue, 14th Sep 2010, 11:41pm

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ben3308

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"I want to be Marilyn Monroe." - Megan Fox

Pooky wrote:

(though try to quote more than Fox, if that's ok with you).
Oh, whoops. Okay...

"I am not a sex symbol." - Jessica Alba
Posted: Wed, 15th Sep 2010, 12:08am

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Pooky

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See, you have a clear neocon bias, there.
Posted: Wed, 15th Sep 2010, 12:37am

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videofxuniverse

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ben3308 wrote:

"I want to be Marilyn Monroe." - Megan Fox
she would probably smell a bit
Posted: Wed, 15th Sep 2010, 3:12am

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Rockfilmers

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See, you have a clear neocon bias, there.
I always took Ben as pretty moderate actually. It's just funny though if anyone would have quoted ABC or MSNBC, news networks with liberal biases, it would have been taken as fact but since it is a conservative bias, it's all of a sudden unworthy to be called real news.

Don't get me wrong, I don't watch Fox or any news really because of the bias. I just hate it when people get so wrapped up in their opinion (on both sides) that they forget what facts actually are.
Posted: Wed, 15th Sep 2010, 4:42am

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Pooky

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Guess I didn't make the sarcasm clear enough, heh.

For what it's worth, when I watch stuff like Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann, I find it totally ridiculous and annoying, although at least they get a lot of their facts right. Also, I do watch Fox News every now and then, but I get most of my american news from Colbert, Stewart, NYT and Wall Street Journal. I also read and watch BBC news, read a bunch of canadian newspapers (La Presse, Le Devoir, The Gazette), and watch CBC (which is publicly funded and so tends to be less biased from what I've seen). Read and watch all or most of those, then go back to Fox, and you'll notice a lot of stuff that you didn't before.

It's not a question of intelligence at all, just a question of what information you get access to.
Posted: Wed, 15th Sep 2010, 5:56am

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Sollthar

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How's Switzerland for someone that speaks both French and English? Does everybody there speak at least one of those two?
Not "everybody", but the majority speaks either french or english or both. As mentioned above, french is one of the countries languages and is tought in schools all over the country for several years as obligatory (je parles francais aussi, mais pas très bon - mais je peux comprend plus que je peux parler.) wink

English is a mandatory subject in schools too and most people speak it, at least basically. Unless you're planning on moving to a small countryside village up some odd mountain, chances are way more then half of the people you meet will be able to communicate with you in either or even both the languages.
Universities often even teach in english or use untranslated english literature.

Is it student-friendly (read: cheap)?
Heh, switzerland and cheap don't really go together. It's student friendy and there are places you can go obviously, but generally, I wouldn't go to switzerland and expect anything to be cheap. biggrin

Are there always original english versions of movies in cinemas there?


Yes! At least three quarters of the cinemas show films in their original language, whatever that will be. Very important, that! Unfortunately, it was 100% a few years ago - so that seems to be changing.

Is public transit good?
According to several magazines and studies, switzerland has the best public transit system in the world. You can get from everywhere to everywhere easily and you can usually set your clock to the time a train, bus or tram arrives. Especially the larger cities have a great transit system with high frequency. I don't have a car and travel everywhere by public transit.

But the weather is sucky most of the time. In fact, when I was in Montreal a few years back, it reminded me of switzerland a bit from the culture it has - apart from the fact it obviously had less money by the state it's roads and streets where in.
Posted: Wed, 15th Sep 2010, 7:05am

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That sounds awesome Sollthar. Screw Germany, I'm coming to Switzerland to study. razz

(But seriously your country is badass)
Posted: Wed, 15th Sep 2010, 7:13am

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Sollthar

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I think it's like with all other countries. Some things are really awesome, some just annoy the hell out of you. smile

I work rather similar to Aculag though in the way I see "my country". I have zero patriotism in me. Switzerland is just the place I happen to be born. But I am aware that I was lucky to be born here and enjoy many rights, liberties, luxury and power I would miss anywhere else, especially politically - that doesn't mean I don't look at it's affairs with a very critical eye and the necessary intellectual distance. smile
Posted: Wed, 15th Sep 2010, 7:21am

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Pooky

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What do you mean "sucky weather"? For me, the worst weather is super windy and cold. razz

Interesting that there's no minimum wage, though. I'm guessing wages are on par with the higher prices?

And while I'm at it, does anyone else here have any cool "what it's like to live here" info about their respective country (excluding the USA which I already know about)?
Posted: Wed, 15th Sep 2010, 7:54am

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Sollthar

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windy and cold.
Yup, that's about it. biggrin

Interesting that there's no minimum wage, though. I'm guessing wages are on par with the higher prices?
Of course there's a minimum wage.
Swiss wages are high and on par with the prices. Obviously though, that varies greatly on the type of job.
As a waiter, your minimum is about 18 $ per hour for example. It'll be hard to find jobs for less then that. Obviously, you can also have jobs for way more then that.
Posted: Wed, 15th Sep 2010, 8:08am

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ben3308

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Come to Texas. It's like a whole other country.

Truthfully, the landscape has huge, beautiful variation and we have ranches larger than whole other states in the US, Texas itself being three times the size of France and nearly seven times the size of the UK. It gets pretty hot here, but the north end of in Dallas is pretty cool for most of the year, excepting the summers. Plains? Hills? Canyons? Coasts? Deserts? Valleys? We have everything short of the tropics. That, and it's the best state there is. Fact.

biggrin
Posted: Wed, 15th Sep 2010, 8:24am

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videofxuniverse

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Well when a nuclear war is started im moving to switzerland. its the only place that wont get bombed
Posted: Wed, 15th Sep 2010, 8:29am

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Simon K Jones

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TURpodcast wrote:

It thought FXhome doesn't allow threads like these.
Generally we don't. The three no-nos are: religion, politics and random X Versus Y (eg Mac vs PC). We don't have anything against these types of discussions per se, but they have a habit of descending into flame wars when conducted over the internet. For some reason those three topics seem to remove people's ability to debate intelligently. smile

However, we do make occasional exceptions. The epic US elections topic, for example, which was a truly remarkable thing - pages and pages and pages of mostly mature, intelligent debate from people of all ages and all around the world. It was a proud moment for the FXhome community. smile

Similarly, this topic didn't start out to be incendiary, so I didn't see a problem with it. We are keeping a close eye, of course, and reserve the right to lock/nuke it, but so far that's not been necessary. It got a little rough around the first couple of pages, but soon settled down.

Religion, on the other hand...I don't think we've ever managed a decent religious topic without it going straight to hell. smile
Posted: Wed, 15th Sep 2010, 2:00pm

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Rockfilmers

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Like I said earlier, every country has its ups and downs.

I work rather similar to Aculag though in the way I see "my country". I have zero patriotism in me.
Being born basically into the military, I had patriotism shoved in my face for most of my life. Now, I don't really feel proud of my country for the sole reason of it being my country, I'm proud of the good we've done, but I can also recognize the bad. I just feel blessed I was born here.
Posted: Wed, 15th Sep 2010, 10:49pm

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Aculag

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videofxuniverse wrote:

Well when a nuclear war is started im moving to switzerland. its the only place that wont get bombed
Switzerland is pretty small, man. If everywhere else in the world was bombed, you'd still be screwed.
Posted: Thu, 16th Sep 2010, 1:53am

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Thrawn

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Tarn wrote:

Religion, on the other hand...I don't think we've ever managed a decent religious topic without it going straight to hell. smile
Hey, that's offensive!










wink
Posted: Fri, 17th Sep 2010, 2:41am

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Terminal Velocity

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Tarn wrote:

Religion, on the other hand...I don't think we've ever managed a decent religious topic without it going straight to hell. smile
I see,
what you did there.