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where to buy uk video cameras

Posted: Sun, 26th Sep 2010, 7:47pm

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Mad Mike

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Hi wonder if someone can help as ive looked on the net and cant find any decent places. wheres the best place to buy a decent video camera for someone looking to make film. i currentley have a sony hdr-xr105. now while i dont mind sony file format as its easily convertable the canera only cost me £550 and im looking at buying something more professional next year under the 3 grand price tag
Posted: Sun, 26th Sep 2010, 8:12pm

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Toruk Macto

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Online, there's always BH photo video audio, which is reliable.

A word of advice for your next camera - get a DSLR. If your budget is three grand, you can get a (Canon) 7d or a t2i, plus stabilizers and loads of lenses. Especially so if you have a t2i!
Posted: Sun, 26th Sep 2010, 8:27pm

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Mad Mike

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Its all new to me can you explain what you mean by DSLR and everything else its going over my head.
Posted: Sun, 26th Sep 2010, 8:31pm

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Mad Mike

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I'm after a film camera not a photo camera
Posted: Sun, 26th Sep 2010, 8:51pm

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swintonmaximilian

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Hi ,a DSLR is a digital SLR. Some DSLR's also record HD video. Currently the best of these are made by Canon. They make the 5d, the 7d, the 550d, and the 60d. These all record full HD video at 24 fps, 25 fps, 30 fps, and 60fps.

They all vary in price, and they can all take a variety of lenses made by different manufacturers with the right adapters.

There are pro's and con's to each.

They allow you to make very cinematic images, if you use them correctly.

Look on the film makers forum section of the site at the HDSLR thread, lot's of good info in there.

Hope this helps.

Max
Posted: Sun, 26th Sep 2010, 8:56pm

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Mad Mike

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what about the good old cameras that looked like camera's guess ive got a lot of thinking to do.
Posted: Sun, 26th Sep 2010, 9:41pm

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swintonmaximilian

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Yes indeed.
Posted: Sun, 26th Sep 2010, 10:31pm

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Pooky

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Nikon seems to have overtaken Canon, though.

The D3100 is 500$ (body-only), which is substantially better than the T2i, and it will most likely be slightly superior image-wise. Then the D7000 seems to have the 7D beat, and that's going to be about 1000$ I think.
Posted: Sun, 26th Sep 2010, 10:36pm

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Mad Mike

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But wher can i buy a decent film camera in the yuk im not keen on this high end photographic dslr models. but im prepared to apy for a high quality film camera
Posted: Sun, 26th Sep 2010, 10:49pm

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DVStudio

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Pooky wrote:

Nikon seems to have overtaken Canon, though.
I seriously doubt that. Bro, there's no audio/mic input on the D3100... Sure it's cheaper, but what about function and ease of use?
Posted: Mon, 27th Sep 2010, 12:49am

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Toruk Macto

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Despite their 'photo camera' look, the Canon DSLRs (or Nikon but I've never used them) are right now being used to film high quality movies that the 'film-style' cameras have been doing for quite a while.


However, if you're keen on a more classic type of camera, there are quite a lot of newer cameras that Sony, Panasonic, and Canon also have in your price range. ( I have never used them so correct me guys if i am wrong).


But I seriously encourage you to look at DSLRs, like the Canon 5D, 7D, T2i, 60D (coming out soon), and the Nikon brand.
Posted: Mon, 27th Sep 2010, 6:59am

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ben3308

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Mad Mike wrote:

But wher can i buy a decent film camera in the yuk im not keen on this high end photographic dslr models. but im prepared to apy for a high quality film camera
Look up some of this stuff for yourself, it's pretty straightforward the answer.
Posted: Mon, 27th Sep 2010, 9:58am

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Simon K Jones

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Mad Mike wrote:

I'm after a film camera not a photo camera
Just to clarify, you are looking for a video camera, not a film camera. A film camera is something else entirely.

As for the 'photo camera' thing...the latest trend is for still photography and video to combine onto a single device, so the distinction is increasingly fuzzy.
Posted: Mon, 27th Sep 2010, 6:09pm

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Mad Mike

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ok maybe im not being clear. Ot I just dont know what I mean. Whats the difference?

I've seen what a DSLR is and I really dont think I want to go that way.
Posted: Mon, 27th Sep 2010, 6:37pm

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Pooky

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Can someone who has both a good DSLR and a good camcorder post screengrabs of the same scene with both cameras, making sure to use a wide aperture for maximum bokeh on the DSLR? That way, we can just whip out that picture whenever someone misunderstands what a Video DSLR is.
Posted: Mon, 27th Sep 2010, 8:26pm

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Toruk Macto

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http://nofilmschool.com/dslr/camera/


Here's a (basic) introduction to DSLRs for video usage and which ones are best.


http://nofilmschool.com/2010/09/some-other-good-hdslr-resources/comment-page-1/#comment-65740


more of them
Posted: Tue, 28th Sep 2010, 1:46am

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doppelganger

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Mad Mike wrote:

ok maybe im not being clear. Ot I just dont know what I mean. Whats the difference?

I've seen what a DSLR is and I really dont think I want to go that way.
Obviously you have done little to no research on dslrs. Why would you not want a camera that allows images such as these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqn6mWuqwE0

that video was filmed with this:


now stop being ignorant
Posted: Tue, 28th Sep 2010, 3:04am

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ben3308

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I mean, this of mine is on my GL2, which cost me three thousand dollars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWhl55Pj93o

And this is on my T2i (550D) with the kit lens, just dicking around (about 900 dollars total):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouqameJkfTA

Feel free to go to my channel - http://www.youtube.com/ben3308 - and see the quality differences between all my videos prior to May 2010 and those since.
Posted: Tue, 28th Sep 2010, 8:25am

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Simon K Jones

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Mad Mike wrote:

ok maybe im not being clear. Ot I just dont know what I mean. Whats the difference?
Video camera = A camera that specifically shoots video. These days that means recording digitally onto tape, hard drives or memory cards. Usually has a fixed lens. Most affordable, consumer models are designed primarily for shooting holiday videos/weddings/events, so lots of automation and in-built sound. Very easy to use, but quite difficult to make cinematic.

Film camera = A camera that captures individual images (frames) onto actual, expensive film stock. Usually versatile with interchangeable lenses. This is what they still mostly use on professional productions. No sound and little automation.

HDSLR = The new breed of DSLR photo cameras that can also shoot high definition video. Thanks to interchangeable lenses and high quality components, you can get far closer to the 'film look' of professional movies with these, without having to break the bank. Still have some technical issues (limited sound recording, moire/aliasing), but if you work around them you can get great results.
Posted: Tue, 28th Sep 2010, 6:08pm

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Mad Mike

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ok as doppleganger pointed out to me I have apparently done little or no research. Upon the first replies to this thread i was given links to several articles on DSLR camera which I read. I consider this research.
DSLR's do have limitations and I have weighed up the pros and cons and really what Id like is a beginner level film camera something that is professional for someone starting out. i.e. I do not want to use a handycam video camera like I do now nor do I want to use a DSLR which is geared towards photography from the little research I have done.
So I don't think I'm being ignorant or I wouldn't have asked the forum for advice which has been very forthcoming as usually. Being ignorant would be going out and spending 3 grand on something I have no understanding of.
So is their anywhere that sells a film camera for between 2 and 3 grand that would suit a beginner.
Posted: Tue, 28th Sep 2010, 6:17pm

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Mad Mike

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ok just read Tarn's post and watch the DLSR footage very nice in fact. however how does a DSLR compare to say a video camera of around the 3 grand price mark say from someone like sony or canon. I wont be buying anything for about six months as I wont to make sure I make the right decision.

However maybe its just my personal preference to have something that can film high quality images that actually looks like a film/video camera rather than a very expensive point and click photographic camera.

I'm not trying to sound ignorant but get a point across.

I just have an image of assembling a group of people to shoot a project and me pulling out what looks like a photographic camera and the entire group beinga bit deflated by it not looked very proffesional if that makes sense to anyone.
Posted: Tue, 28th Sep 2010, 7:20pm

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DVStudio

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Yeahhhh, because this and this don't look professional at all. wink
Posted: Tue, 28th Sep 2010, 7:26pm

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Pooky

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Yeah a Video DSLR requires a viewfinder on the screen for proper focusing, and ideally some sort of follow-focus ring on the lens. Then if you add the accessories generally found on normal camcorders, a microphone mounted on top, and if you can afford it, some sort of stabilization rig. All in all, it ends up looking pro, especially if you have a good lens on there.

But then, it's up to you; do you want to pick up chicks while filming, or do you want a good movie?
Posted: Tue, 28th Sep 2010, 7:39pm

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Mad Mike

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lol yes good point Dvstudio. Pooky it has nothing to do with picking up chicks lol.

but when your starting out with volunteers and none of you are professional it would be a good atmosphere to create somekind of professional look.

Having said that I have only seen DLSR looking like normal photgraphic camera's not the sexy beasts DVstudio has just shown me.

I'm not saying I dont love the quality of the footage Ive been shown.

I am by far as amatuer as you get but then so are my volunteers some less enthusiastic than others and as I dont come from film school have no background in film and a lot of people out there seem to find the whole idea of me making a film a joke well all I can say is as ever this Forum provides me with a lot of help, but outside of this forum not everyone is willing to take the idea of someone making a film seriously.
Not to get out my violin.
Posted: Tue, 28th Sep 2010, 8:21pm

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Pooky

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That makes sense. All I'm saying though is that DSLRs WILL get you a more professional-looking picture if you know how to use one, at a cheaper cost too. If you want to prove to people that you aren't completely mad, maybe film a short film by yourself, and show it to them before they work with you. Then they'll know what to expect, and they'll believe you when you tell them that this small DSLR gives awesome video.

Also, as I said, you're going to eventually need to buy all that stuff that's on those pics DVStudio posted as you get better at filmmaking - they're not essential, but they all drastically improve the quality of your shots.

Make sure you read all of that smile
Posted: Tue, 28th Sep 2010, 8:32pm

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Mad Mike

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well ibe just spent my evening watching videos of dslr's comparisons etc. I really like the canon 7d but when the reviewer said the camera only handled 29 minutes of recording time i was a bit miffed having said that i suppose buying an extra battery and memory card would help
Posted: Tue, 28th Sep 2010, 8:36pm

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Pooky

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Yeah, this is what I mean by knowing how to use DSLRs, though don't worry the recording limit isn't what you think. DSLRs have maximum lengths for single shots (from the moment you press record to the moment you press stop). The amount of shots you can fit on the cards, though, is limitless - it only depends on the size of the card that's in there. So if that 29 min numer is correct, then the 7D can record 29 mins in a row, but it can store as much as will fit on the SD card.

80% of people here went for the Canon T2i instead of the 7D, though - it's basically the same thing, but much cheaper and with a few less features. Someone else that knows more can fill you in on this.

Also, Nikon is coming out with the D3100 and the D7000 very soon, which should add new features to the table.
Posted: Tue, 28th Sep 2010, 8:43pm

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Mad Mike

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well the earliest i will be buying is march 2011 so i will be going on youtube for more reviews. nikon seems to not be as popular and i remember i once had a nikon for ebay photos just as basic as that and it rarely worked
Posted: Tue, 28th Sep 2010, 8:47pm

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Pooky

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Yeah I'd suggest reading reviews and watching videos and informing yourself a lot more, because your personal experience seems to be rather limited, as you said yourself smile Canon and Nikon both have advantages and disadvantages - it's a personal choice. Check out DPreviews.com for great reviews, and read up on how cameras work in regards to aperture, shutter speed, ISO, etc. etc.
Posted: Tue, 28th Sep 2010, 9:06pm

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Mad Mike

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cheers Pooky I will
Posted: Wed, 29th Sep 2010, 8:12am

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Simon K Jones

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The issue of wanting your cast/crew to think you're serious is a valid one. As you say, having impressive looking kit can help to make people feel like they're involved with something genuine.

Look at it on the flipside, though: you can have the most awesome looking camera in the world, but if the results aren't great it won't matter, it'll be the last film they do with you. If you use an HDSLR, though, and can get past the initial "huh? isn't it a stills camera?" reaction, it'll only take one screening for them to be convinced.

As Pooky says, don't wait until you're on set to impress them with your giant equipment. You want to have already impressed and convinced them by showing them work you've done previously, or by giving them a great script, or by being really organised etc...
Posted: Wed, 29th Sep 2010, 8:27am

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ben3308

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Mad Mike wrote:

but when your starting out with volunteers and none of you are professional it would be a good atmosphere to create somekind of professional look.
The best advice I can give is to be a good communicator. If you can delineate well what you want from people, and more specifically why you want it; you'll find people are much more apt to help you.

Be friendly, direct, and personable. Honestly, I've never NOT been able to talk my way into (or out of) getting people I need to help me out on a project, so I'm not sure where you're coming from; but I do believe a tenacious, endearing attitude helps all across the board.
Posted: Wed, 29th Sep 2010, 8:31am

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Simon K Jones

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Ben's on the money. Your equipment is far less important that your attitude, when you've got people working on your stuff for free.

Communicate well, be accomodating (always listen to people's ideas, although be aware that you DON'T have to act on any of them), and most importantly: be organised (make sure everyone knows where and when things are happening) and the big #1: provide food.

Seriously. As long as you provide food, everything'll be fine. smile
Posted: Wed, 29th Sep 2010, 9:38am

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Arktic

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If you're not buying for another six months, then I'd leave thinking about this decision for at least four or five months.

Camera tech is such a quick changing market, that if you set your heart on one camera right now, you might find that your decision has become obsolete by the time you actually go to buy the camera - either because of new equipment that's been released (the 550D/T2i being announced a week after a friend forked out for a 7D springs to mind), or because of competitive price reductions meaning that one piece of equipment becomes more desirable due to a lower price tag.

That said, however, one thing I'd suggest you bear in mind, however, is Sony's NEX-VG10E. It takes the benefits of shooting on a hybrid DSLR (large CMOS sensor, interchangeable lenses) - and transposes them into the body of a handycam, meaning you get certain other benefits such as better handling without having to buy a mount, a decent on-board mic, flip out LCD screen etc. Basically, it sounds pretty good. There are obviously some drawbacks, but I think it'll be a good few months down the line before we start getting 'field reports' of these things actually being used by real people, rather than just the marketing-speak that Sony have churned out over the last few months.

But it does certainly seem to fit your requested specifications.

Hope this helps smile

Cheers,
Arktic.
Posted: Thu, 30th Sep 2010, 8:44pm

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Mad Mike

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Well this thread has certainly given me a lot to think about and a lot of people have given me their own opinions which was the point really so im glad there was such a response. The camera arktic suggesting looks like some kind of futuristic weapon. if it has the capability to show footage as good as the dslr footage ive been shown i may go with that. i guess i'll be trawling you tube for videos to see what i want before i eventually part with cash. thanks to everyone.