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Light Of Eden - Preview

Posted: Tue, 12th Oct 2010, 10:49pm

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FCRabbath

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Hey guys just wanted to share another sneak preview for light of eden. The film will be out Nov. 15th! Look out for it! Also CRAZY ABOUT YOU will be released after tomorrow!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmwJyZQs1b8 (3 Min)

The main channel: http://www.youtube.com/fcrabbath
JOIN OUR FACEBOOK GROUP! http://www.facebook.com/pages/FCRabbath/143906880181?ref=ts

Cheers,
fred
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 12:40am

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Pooky

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Liked the look of this, and it's an interesting concept despite being completely impossible because we already know how the light spectrum works. The pacing was way too slow for me, but the shots, as usual, were fantastic, and the matte work was nice. Will watch when it comes out.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 7:02am

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Sollthar

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"Most ambitious project ever with a budget of 50 Dollars"

This is getting really ridiculous. It reminds me of someone on the sneak on the lot site who keeps reminding everyone HOW YOUNG he is just to artificially stretch the success of his work because his OMG SO YOUNG and you keep doing it with random numbers like 50 DOLLARS!!! REALLY!!!! WHOAAA!!!! Just let your work speak for itself.

Anyways, nice shots! Cool feel! Excellent Matte work and even more excellent music!

And all of that for 50 Dollars? WHOAAA wink
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 8:09am

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FCRabbath

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Sollthar wrote:

"Most ambitious project ever with a budget of 50 Dollars"

This is getting really ridiculous. It reminds me of someone on the sneak on the lot site who keeps reminding everyone HOW YOUNG he is just to artificially stretch the success of his work because his OMG SO YOUNG and you keep doing it with random numbers like 50 DOLLARS!!! REALLY!!!! WHOAAA!!!! Just let your work speak for itself.

Anyways, nice shots! Cool feel! Excellent Matte work and even more excellent music!

And all of that for 50 Dollars? WHOAAA wink
Well most of my viewers really like specifics of money, and mentioned this technique. I've gotten a lot of requests as to how many crew members and $ was used. Just trying to make everyone happy, not possible.
As well as the most ambitious project ever, well this has a film i've been trying to make for 2 years and an idea i've been working on since age 14. Anyways thanks for watching.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 8:11am

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FCRabbath

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Pooky wrote:

Liked the look of this, and it's an interesting concept despite being completely impossible because we already know how the light spectrum works. The pacing was way too slow for me, but the shots, as usual, were fantastic, and the matte work was nice. Will watch when it comes out.
Well that's the idea, as you even mentioned the 'light' spectrum, and the film is about a light of eden (aka out of this wold). Of course completely fictional but hey! It's a movie! Just the thought of a color never seen before has always been fascinating to me, and thanks for watching!

Last edited Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 8:17am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 8:12am

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Sollthar

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So you got a camera, a computer, software, travel for under 50 $? That's awesome. Teach me. smile
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 8:15am

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FCRabbath

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Sollthar wrote:

So you got a camera, a computer, software, travel for under 50 $? That's awesome. Teach me. smile
You do realize production companies don't put equipment they already own as part of their budget. Most of our equipment (as little as we have) is from festivals anyways.) I'm just stating that the budget, as in the money i spent on this PARTICULAR film, was in fact only 50 dollars. Equipment was there regardless of the film which we won anyways.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 8:19am

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Sollthar

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So what you're basically saying is: "Apart from all the stuff I already have or got for free and what people payed for themselves, I spent 50 $."

How is that important or even valuable info for anyone? There's so much distortion behind that number, it makes no sense at all. smile

I spent about 19.85 $ on Art because we all ate some sandwiches one one day which I paid for. So... was that the budget of my film now? Should I add that 7 $ train ticket one of the actors bought or not, seeing she bought it herself?


Do YOU realize a production company wouldn't even bother to put a number like 50 $ at the beginning of their film - or any number for that reason - unless to achieve some sort of propaganda effect on how LOW this number was, which usually is only as low if the calculation the leads to it is utterly random?
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 8:25am

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FCRabbath

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Sollthar wrote:

So what you're basically saying is: "Apart from all the stuff I already have or got for free and what people payed for themselves, I spent 50 $."

How is that important or even valuable info for anyone? There's so much distortion behind that number, it makes no sense at all. smile

I spent about 19.85 $ on Art because we all ate some sandwiches one one day which I paid for. So... was that the budget of my film now? Should I add that 7 $ train ticket one of the actors bought or not, seeing she bought it herself?


Do YOU realize a production company wouldn't even bother to put a number like 50 $ at the beginning of their film - or any number for that reason - unless to achieve some sort of propaganda effect on how LOW this number was, which usually is only as low if the calculation the leads to it is utterly random?
do YOUUU(double power) realize haha - that i get bothered to put such information up. Especially for my youtube fans who seem to really care as they know what i have already from the FAQs and how i got them. I know production companies don't put that number before a film but nothing is distorted. All the info is there even in the description of the video. They know this isn't free, just as you have a monthly budget, this is my budget for this specific film. No propaganda, just real specifics as REQUESTED.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 8:32am

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Sollthar

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Yes, IIII realize that. biggrin

I get asked them same thing. All of us do at some point get asked about our budgets. It's a dumb question to begin with that I usually answer with "no budget", seeing no one got paid a wage and we all do it for fun / learning / whatever. That doesn't mean there isn't stuff involved in making the film that cost money or did cost money at some point or maybe even someone else. smile

Just putting an exact number like that is mathematical nonsense to anyone with half a brain. That's all I'm saying. smile

That's no "budget", that's just the money you, personally, spent, on a no budget production.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 8:35am

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FCRabbath

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Sollthar wrote:

Yes, IIII realize that. biggrin

I get asked them same thing. All of us do at some point get asked about our budgets. It's a dumb question to begin with that I usually answer with "no budget", seeing no one got paid a wage and we all do it for fun / learning / whatever. That doesn't mean there isn't stuff involved in making the film that cost money or did cost money at some point or maybe even someone else. smile

Just putting an exact number like that is mathematical nonsense to anyone with half a brain. That's all I'm saying. smile

That's no "budget", that's just the money you, personally, spent, on a no budget production.
Well last time i put no budget and not the EXACT number this happened.... http://fxhome.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=42891&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 8:55am

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Sollthar

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Haha, alright. The issue is a different one...

The odd thing, and what I think ben responded to, is just how much you put the stress on that. I mean, that debate always comes up with your films and I haven't seen it come up with anyone else really. And I think that's down to you and your way of putting the stress on "Hey, look at how little money I spent and how good my films are despite of it! Take that!" - at least that's the way it comes across.

Why do you even bother at all? You made a big fat disclaimer saying "most ambitious project for 50$" and I had to laugh out loud. Makes you look like a 15 year old, honestly. And it makes you look like a pretentious 15 year old.

Why not just say "Here's a film I made" and leave the entire budget thing away. Who cares?
And then, when someone actually asks, you can answer it. "We didn't have a budget on this and were able to get most things for free. I spent about 50 $ myself". If you feel like answering it at all.

Are your future productions going to have disclaimers for everything people might ask? Just in case?
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:08am

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FCRabbath

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Sollthar wrote:

Haha, alright. The issue is a different one...

The odd thing, and what I think ben responded to, is just how much you put the stress on that. I mean, that debate always comes up with your films and I haven't seen it come up with anyone else really. And I think that's down to you and your way of putting the stress on "Hey, look at how little money I spent and how good my films are despite of it! Take that!" - at least that's the way it comes across.

Why do you even bother at all? You made a big fat disclaimer saying "most ambitious project for 50$" and I had to laugh out loud. Makes you look like a 15 year old, honestly. And it makes you look like a pretentious 15 year old.

Why not just say "Here's a film I made" and leave the entire budget thing away. Who cares?
And then, when someone actually asks, you can answer it. "We didn't have a budget on this and were able to get most things for free. I spent about 50 $ myself". If you feel like answering it at all.
I don't really ever put most ambitious project on any other projects, it's just for this project. My intention was never to make it seem like HEY TAKE THAT as you stated - and Solthar i'd like to think you know me better than that by now. I'm rather offended to be honest. This has been a project people have been waiting on as far as my channel on youtube is concerned - hence the most ambitious statement is there. Why bother putting the money there? Well it's my most asked question ever. Even before what camera i use - so there it is. If you can't accept that i can't help you there. Just saving myself from the billion questions later, and they get mad at me if i don't say specifics. *and i mean REALLY mad* But i guess next time i'll put no budget and let this flare up again. There is no winning with this issue, yet i rather get the filmmakers get on my case for it then the youtube viewers. Pick your poison i guess.

Also this isn't mentioned on my shorter more lighter films such as this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S2ecPD2paU&feature=channel which was also recently released. I put them for the bigger films because of the magnitude of messages i get requesting the budget.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:13am

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Xcession

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For every 1 project, why don't you just do two videos? One which is presented without any pretension, pre-amble or production information and is just The Film, as you'd expect to see in a cinema. And another, in which you go into the methods, budgets etc?

The main film would be improved by the lack of budget information (which frankly dispels much of the mystique of film making) and the "making of" could benefit from more depth.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:15am

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FCRabbath

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As stated above not all my projects have this. ONLY the bigger ones. So far i have this type of slide on 3 films.
Disconnected, Light of eden, and Inventory (but for the time it took to make)
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:15am

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FCRabbath

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Xcession wrote:

For every 1 project, why don't you just do two videos? One which is presented without any pretension, pre-amble or production information and is just The Film, as you'd expect to see in a cinema. And another, in which you go into the methods, budgets etc?

The main film would be improved by the lack of budget information (which frankly dispels much of the mystique of film making) and the "making of" could benefit from more depth.
Hmm i might consider this. Good idea. Also note that this is only a preview, the actual film won't have this info on it.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:21am

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Sollthar

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You completely misunderstand me mate, I'm not saying I believe you are this way. I know you're not! I like you, I like your work a lot and I mean in no way to offend you. smile

I'm just saying this is what it comes across as. I'm just trying to point your attention to your PR and where I truly believe something is going wrong and the reactions you get here sometimes kind of show that. The thread you linked to ONLY takes issue with that kind of labels and the distorted image that occurs because of it. Even if it actually IS your most asked question. You don't have to make yourself and / or your films look partially ridiculous just to answer a few questions that pop up all the time.

Don't you see that a grown up, very very talented filmmaker putting a label at the start of his film saying "my most ambitious project for 50$" before I've even seen it is pushing things into hilarity, at least a bit? I really really don't mean to attack you. I mean to help you.

Sorry it doesn't come across that way.


Anyways, the film itself looks great, as usual. And I'm looking forward to seeing the entire thing, the concept sounds strange but interesting and original.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:21am

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Xcession

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Preview or not, I think mentioning money at any point in the release and marketing of a film is a bit vulgar. This could just be a British thing though. I wouldn't tell people how much something seemingly amazing costs any more than I'd ask someone their salary.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:25am

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FCRabbath

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Xcession wrote:

Preview or not, I think mentioning money at any point in the release and marketing of a film is a bit vulgar. This could just be a British thing though. I wouldn't tell people how much something seemingly amazing costs any more than I'd ask someone their salary.
I'll just forward you the the mass emails asking me then so you can set them all straight. haha. Good advice as fas the the two videos idea. thanks.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:26am

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Xcession

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You just have to reply "A good filmmaker never kisses and tells" and leave it at that. Just because someone asks you something personal, it doesn't mean you have to tell them. Be the better man and be modest smile
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:28am

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FCRabbath

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Xcession wrote:

You just have to reply "A good filmmaker never kisses and tells" and leave it at that. Just because someone asks you something personal, it doesn't mean you have to tell them. Be the better man and be modest smile
Welllll i think you really underestimate the heat i'd get for that but i do appreciate the advice. Every move i make seems to be very magnified.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:35am

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swintonmaximilian

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Rating: +1

Hi Fred, I'm looking forward to this one, have been since I saw the last lot of footage you had from it. Good move to re-shoot it I think, just so that it's visually up to date.

The matte painting work is looking very good, well done on that. I really like the concept behind this, it's fascinating I think.

As for the budget statement, I agree that you don't need it. You don't need to pander to your youtube audience to keep them sweet. You are very capable and talented and your films speak for themselves. Why is it necessary to answer peoples questions about budget? If they are interested enough they will look at the info on your channel. I understand why you do it, and I know it's not an ego thing or anything, but you don't need it and it really does have an undesirable effect on the film.

Anyway, looking forward to this.

Max
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:38am

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Simon K Jones

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Also, you cultivate your own audience through your interactions with them. If you keep emphasising budget (or lack thereof) then you'll continue to attract people that are obsessed with such things, while pushing away other people that might be more interested in the film itself.

Looking forward to this, either way. smile

Edit: Looks great, visuals and matte paintings are wonderful. I think the pacing is perhaps a little off, as you spend a huge amount of time watching the explorer guy giggling to himself and being gleeful - it seems like it would be more effective to see him find the box, open it, get that initial gleeful excitement, then immediately cut to the opening title.

The music didn't quite seem to fit, for me, when the main title appears. Not sure why that is - it didn't seem to match tonally with what was going on. Felt more like a big celebration with lots of people, like you might get at the end of a romcom, rather than a mysterious, exciting discovery.

Last edited Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:45am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:40am

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Sollthar

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Yeah, you've outgrown the Youtube kids going "Whoa, what's your budget man" long time.

An audience that gets pissed if you don't tell your exact budget? Hello? That's the kind of audience you definately don't need. They're just annoying. Ignore them.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 8:52pm

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ChromeHeart

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Why are people telling this guy how to be? If he chooses to say he spent around $50 on the film (excluding the equipment) I don't see a problem in that, especially if it saves him the trouble and time of answering them later. I guess I'm just tired of opening threads created by FCRabbath and seeing people argue about this rather than discuss the content of the film.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:05pm

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Sollthar

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Yeah, so are we. Hence the tip to remove what's creating the argument in the first place. wink

But yes, obviously, "this guy" can choose to be however he likes to be and do whatever he wants to do - and deal with the consequences of it. Either way.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 9:58pm

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FCRabbath

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Sollthar wrote:

Yeah, so are we. Hence the tip to remove what's creating the argument in the first place. wink

But yes, obviously, "this guy" can choose to be however he likes to be and do whatever he wants to do - and deal with the consequences of it. Either way.
When you say consequences, do you mean people on here bring this up again?
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 10:33pm

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ben3308

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I have always been impressed, and will continue to be impressed, by FCRabbath. But I was impressed and enjoyed all the stuff more when there was no money disclaimer. I'm actually less impressed the past two years, mainly because of all the disclaimers. It cheapens the verisimilitude of the 'world' of FCRabbath creations (which is stylish, oft-religious, and very well acted) and makes me focus instead on money, which I never cared about or focused on.

I liked your films before I even knew what you shot on. Because some of the magic of the filmmaking was there - is it a camera that anyone can buy, were there special lenses, editing, etc? I don't know - and that's what makes it special. If I can tell immediately something was shot on a Canon 7D with the kit lens and then there's a disclaimer about 50 dollar budget, what have you, then all that ambiguity behind authorship is gone; and the material is less enchanting.

How is the FCRabbath style created, and through what means? Honestly, I liked it better when I really didn't know. It made me able to get lost in your films, the technique, and the execution. Now that there's this emphasis on being straightforward, I don't enjoy them as much. If I know you spent 45 minutes shooting some random sh!t in a parking lot before I even get to watch the short film, I'll deduce easily how it was made and think "oh, well I could replicate that, easy" and it's less impressive. By leagues, it's less impressive.

Keep some mystery behind your authorship, there's more of a spark in it. I've always felt that way. So what, people have questions. The answer they're looking for isn't one you can give - the material is just a product of you, who you are, and your talents; and can't easily be replicated. And that's just the truth.

You're acting like nobody else on here has ever received a ton of email. I've gotten messages, thousands, since posting my Inebriation video on YouTube and email, and have done my best to answer them. But unless someone asks, I'm not going to solicit the information about production too much to them. That ruins the effect, ruins the world I've created that the person can watch and become a part of and not analyze but speculate and wonder as to how it was produced. That's filmmaking.
Posted: Wed, 13th Oct 2010, 11:54pm

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Garrison

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I'll glean off of ben3308's about the mystery of films this way:

I think the spirit of what is being said here is kind of like going up to your girlfriend you plan on proposing to and when presenting the ring you announce how much it cost first as you open the box. It just kinda takes the magic out of the moment.

I personally am a fan of your work and for me, I'd rather watch a 30 minute documentary of you as a filmmaker (Now that you have a number of films under your belt) and how you work with very minimal/no funding approach and let your work stand on it's own.

My opinion.
Posted: Thu, 14th Oct 2010, 12:20am

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Aculag

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The look on that guy's face at the end of this was priceless.
Posted: Thu, 14th Oct 2010, 6:10am

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Sollthar

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When you say consequences, do you mean people on here bring this up again?
I mean people bringing it up again and it cheapening your work to anyone who isn't a pre-puberty Youtube kid for the reasons everyone's trying to explain to you, yeah.

It's your decision how to sell yourself and your work, obviously. And I won't bring it up again - except maybe mention it in a joke or two... biggrin
Posted: Thu, 14th Oct 2010, 8:38am

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Simon K Jones

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ChromeHeart wrote:

Why are people telling this guy how to be?
Because we like his stuff, and we like him, and we want his movies to be presented in the best way possible.

Also, if you put something up in public, you'll get public responses. That's how it works. If you don't want responses (some of which will always be critical, no matter how good the work), then don't put it in a public place.

Of course, it's entirely up to Rabbath whether he takes people's advice or not. That's his choice.

I guess I'm just tired of opening threads created by FCRabbath and seeing people argue about this rather than discuss the content of the film.
I think we all are. smile But that's as good an indication as any that the budget declaration is maybe not helping the movies.
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 12:46am

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Atom

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My only thing, aside from budget, is to wonder how your crew must feel. Now, you don't need to mention them at all, if you so choose- but when you say 1-2 crew, I'm thinking- 'Gee, how devalued must those people feel?'

Don't fool me around, I know there are more people than that. Maybe not many more, but if you've got someone holding the boom and you shooting, then there's more than '1' crew member right there off the bat. And that's slim. The crew thing bothers me, I suppose- I like the bubble of thinking it's like a hundred person crew working on these things- when you burst that bubble I just roll my eyes and say 'oh, well okay', because I simply don't believe you, even if you are telling the truth.

When you burst the bubble of mystique, you leave yourself open to eye-rolling more than being impressed, I think. More than the money issue.


So you had 1-2 crew members? Really? How are you counting that? There are only two people helping you? Just the one to two? And yet they don't warrant their actual names being said? How must that single person helping you feel to be part of an 'FCRabbath Creation', I have to wonder. How must that other crew member feel not only not to be named, but to be basically considered potential or hypothetical as a '1-2 crew members' listed aid?

If you work on such little, I have to inherently wonder, why aren't you recognizing these few people? Because obviously they must've been majorly helpful, maybe overwhelmingly so, to accomplish something like Light of Eden with you, right?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or patronizing here, I'm just seriously wondering.

They may have not been consistently there, and they may have interchanged throughout shooting, but that part always bothers me because I don't have any idea how you're classifying crew.

I mean, dow to brass tax Ben and I are basically the only people that directly make our movies- just the two of us. But it'd be waaaay inconsiderate on our part, at least in my mind, to diminish the help of the countless people that aid us (even in small ways) throughout the production. So Reese was an actor in our movies- or our writer Andrew Allen wrote it- if they both helped a little bit, be it moving lights or staging things, I consider them crew.

I dunno, maybe we just word things/see the semantics of it differently in that regards. I dunno. Perhaps if you could go into more detail on how you spent that money- outline your resourcefulness a bit more, and more-clearly flesh out how and who and what your crew are- both myself and this community would be more apt to give you praise instead of.....well......

...this.

Because as of now, I watch your movies- but I'm tiring and tiring quickly of the guise of such ridiculous resourcefulness and self-importance. Whether you realize it or not, your statements on crew and budget reflect an image of supreme selfish/self-centeredness. As if reminding us 'Hey guys, I basically did this all by myself! And without any help or money! Can you believe it? Look how cool it is! And I did it all!'

Now you say this is because people ask you. Well, okay, that's fine- if it were the full truth. But come on, cut the bull. You do this, at least partly, because you want to tell people how awesome you are with so little crew and money.

WE GET IT.

Please, for your own sake, stop. If your YouTube sub-culture audience likes that, that's fine. But stop trying to tell us the same thing on this site that we've all continually told you we either don't believe or don't care about.

Because really, at least for me, I don't. Ever since Inebriation, people ask me and Ben thousands of questions about what camera we use, where we got the locations, how many people we used, and how much money we spent. Thousands of people go out of their way to specifically ask. The truth? I could tell people $0 or $3,000, depending on how you wanted to look at it. I could tell them the crew was just Ben, since he set the lights and shot it. Or I could tell them it was the 8-10 people hanging around in the video and helping along. I could really say anything and it would entirely depend on perspective.

But who cares? I'll tell some of them what I can find as the best answer if they really want to know, sure, but not go out of my way to specifically build it into my actual video. That stuff is so, in all honesty, embarrassingly petty.

Use that sort of tactic if you want. But don't be angry when I, an avid viewer and fan and friend of yours- for many years!- expresses such strong, long-winded, recent distaste for it on here.

Because man, I'm just trying to be honest with you. And when you put something up here, and you open yourself up to this community- you've got to (at least a little bit) anticipate this.

You're better than that. Be better than that.
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 2:05am

Post 34 of 59

Aculag

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FCRabbath wrote:


Well first off all. Stop your extremely condescending tone with me.
Agreed. Atom, you sound more self-important in a single post than Fred sounds in this entire thread. You say it yourself, with great amounts of emphasis, "who cares?" Why would you go out of your way to write an 800 word essay about how someone else chooses to market himself? If someone did that to you, you would spend pages upon pages defending yourself. You hype your movies to no end, and Fred tells people how much it cost. What is the big deal?

Also it's brass tacks.

Ps. No idea how this ended up above Fred's post...

Last edited Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 2:09am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 2:06am

Post 35 of 59

FCRabbath

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Atom wrote:

My only thing, aside from budget, is to wonder how your crew must feel. Now, you don't need to mention them at all, if you so choose- but when you say 1-2 crew, I'm thinking- 'Gee, how devalued must those people feel?'

Don't fool me around, I know there are more people than that. Maybe not many more, but if you've got someone holding the boom and you shooting, then there's more than '1' crew member right there off the bat. And that's slim. The crew thing bothers me, I suppose- I like the bubble of thinking it's like a hundred person crew working on these things- when you burst that bubble I just roll my eyes and say 'oh, well okay', because I simply don't believe you, even if you are telling the truth.

When you burst the bubble of mystique, you leave yourself open to eye-rolling more than being impressed, I think. More than the money issue.


So you had 1-2 crew members? Really? How are you counting that? There are only two people helping you? Just the one to two? And yet they don't warrant their actual names being said? How must that single person helping you feel to be part of an 'FCRabbath Creation', I have to wonder. How must that other crew member feel not only not to be named, but to be basically considered potential or hypothetical as a '1-2 crew members' listed aid?

If you work on such little, I have to inherently wonder, why aren't you recognizing these few people? Because obviously they must've been majorly helpful, maybe overwhelmingly so, to accomplish something like Light of Eden with you, right?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or patronizing here, I'm just seriously wondering.

They may have not been consistently there, and they may have interchanged throughout shooting, but that part always bothers me because I don't have any idea how you're classifying crew.

I mean, dow to brass tax Ben and I are basically the only people that directly make our movies- just the two of us. But it'd be waaaay inconsiderate on our part, at least in my mind, to diminish the help of the countless people that aid us (even in small ways) throughout the production. So Reese was an actor in our movies- or our writer Andrew Allen wrote it- if they both helped a little bit, be it moving lights or staging things, I consider them crew.

I dunno, maybe we just word things/see the semantics of it differently in that regards. I dunno. Perhaps if you could go into more detail on how you spent that money- outline your resourcefulness a bit more, and more-clearly flesh out how and who and what your crew are- both myself and this community would be more apt to give you praise instead of.....well......

...this.

Because as of now, I watch your movies- but I'm tiring and tiring quickly of the guise of such ridiculous resourcefulness and self-importance. Whether you realize it or not, your statements on crew and budget reflect an image of supreme selfish/self-centeredness. As if reminding us 'Hey guys, I basically did this all by myself! And without any help or money! Can you believe it? Look how cool it is! And I did it all!'

Now you say this is because people ask you. Well, okay, that's fine- if it were the full truth. But come on, cut the bull. You do this, at least partly, because you want to tell people how awesome you are with so little crew and money.

WE GET IT.

Please, for your own sake, stop. If your YouTube sub-culture audience likes that, that's fine. But stop trying to tell us the same thing on this site that we've all continually told you we either don't believe or don't care about.

Because really, at least for me, I don't. Ever since Inebriation, people ask me and Ben thousands of questions about what camera we use, where we got the locations, how many people we used, and how much money we spent. Thousands of people go out of their way to specifically ask. The truth? I could tell people $0 or $3,000, depending on how you wanted to look at it. I could tell them the crew was just Ben, since he set the lights and shot it. Or I could tell them it was the 8-10 people hanging around in the video and helping along. I could really say anything and it would entirely depend on perspective.

But who cares? I'll tell some of them what I can find as the best answer if they really want to know, sure, but not go out of my way to specifically build it into my actual video. That stuff is so, in all honesty, embarrassingly petty.

Use that sort of tactic if you want. But don't be angry when I, an avid viewer and fan and friend of yours- for many years!- expresses such strong, long-winded, recent distaste for it on here.

Because man, I'm just trying to be honest with you. And when you put something up here, and you open yourself up to this community- you've got to (at least a little bit) anticipate this.

You're better than that. Be better than that.
Well first off all. Stop your extremely condescending tone with me. I *guess* thank you for trying to help me. Yet you still don't understand - I already explained it but it's not good enough it seems. Also since you asked - so far the footage of what you just SAW was just me behind the camera. Meaning no crew, just me and the actor without boom. And yes i am included in the crew. No lie, no joke. Disconnected was just me and my assistant director devon, who has his own credit slide (go check).

Also where did i mention ON HERE THIS thread the no budget/50 dollars thing? Where? It wasn't on my original post..it was soltthar who mentioned it after watching the video that is was on YOUTUBE. I don't mention it here except in defense of what people were saying.

Personally i feel like you ARE attacking with your responses. Just being honest, and i'm sure it looks like it if you re-read what you wrote.
So end of story - that is my reasoning for putting up there. If you don't like it i cannot help you. I'm sorry you cannot look passed the 2-3 second slide which i get asked constantly so if you cannnn let it go. That would be great. It's just the preview video..

SO yeah, let it go. My preview videos get deleted anyways after the release by the end of the month.

Also please remove your condescending tone with me.

You're better than that Ben. Be better than that.
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 2:08am

Post 36 of 59

FCRabbath

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Aculag wrote:

FCRabbath wrote:


Well first off all. Stop your extremely condescending tone with me.
Agreed. Atom, you sound more self-important in a single post than Fred sounds in this entire thread.

Also it's brass tacks.
hehe sorry i had deleted it to do some edits, but it's reposted.
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 2:10am

Post 37 of 59

FCRabbath

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[quote="Aculag"]

FCRabbath wrote:




Ps. No idea how this ended up above Fred's post...
PSYCHIC!! GET THE E-PITCH FORKS!!!
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 2:13am

Post 38 of 59

Aculag

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FCRabbath wrote:

PSYCHIC!! GET THE E-PITCH FORKS!!!
[throw voice]No, stop! He's too valuable...[/throw voice]
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 2:18am

Post 39 of 59

FCRabbath

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Aculag wrote:

FCRabbath wrote:

PSYCHIC!! GET THE E-PITCH FORKS!!!
[throw voice]No, stop! He's too valuable...[/throw voice]
WHO SAID THAT?! WE DON'T LIKE LIARS HERE! KILL HIM TOO!
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 3:13am

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Pooky

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*Pooky murders everyone*
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 4:04am

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The Strider

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I've been very excited about this film for some time. Well, I was, until Pooky murdered me. It makes it difficult to see things in the same light.
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 5:11am

Post 42 of 59

Atom

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Honestly, Aculag, I haven't talked about any of my movies/what I'm doing in so long, it's not even funny. But even then, my own things have no bearing on what I or anyone else say to anyone. PLENTY of people have said long things in multiple posts (Solthar, for instance) to great extents in this thread already.

I'm entitled to my own opinion on it; if you don't want it, I suppose I'll just stop commenting on and watching your stuff.

I'm sorry you took my comment in such a sour manner, as well. You had to have expected it from someone, though. People can only be so courteous, every once in a while you're going to get that brutally honest, harsh critic on some front. Here, unfortunately, it's me. I'm not a trolling YouTuber, I'm a filmmaker and fan of yours, and I'm expressing my annoyance with something- since you put it on here open to such criticism. I guess next time I won't take the time to fully flesh out my thoughts in detail, as apparently that's not welcome by you.

You'll always be a very talented filmmaker, Fred, and I'll always probably enjoy your movies. But your tact with them lately, and the pretenses you surround them with bother me- and if you won't accept that- or are going to respond with such dismissiveness, I'll just leave you and your movies alone.

I don't mean to condescend, I'm just trying to help. Say what you want, let Aculag back you up (he's been gunning against anything I've ever said on here for years anyway)- I don't care. Like I said, I ask some questions, I'm trying to help. That's all. If I come off abrasive or condescending, it's because I tire of your self-centered posting and pretenses surrounding your movies lately that you play off of with such naivety as if it's all news to you.

You want to know about why the text card mentioning the budget and crew are a big deal- even when you yourself call it a 'small preview'- and don't see that it's your reactions that are what the issue is, then I can't help or better explain it to you. I'm long-winded already, so I'll let Solly or someone else tackle that one. Because I'm sure someone will.

Am I being an asshole in mentioning it in the manner I have? Maybe a little, and I apologize for that. But I mean what I say, and I do hope you'll take at least a little bit of it to heart. I'm sorry I'm not as nice as Sollthar or Swinton or Tarn about it. Oh, and I'm not Ben. You are better than this petty stuff- WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S THE MOST PROMINENT (and ONLY) ISSUE WE ALL MENTION? Come on, man.

Geez man. unsure

Last edited Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 5:30am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 5:23am

Post 43 of 59

FCRabbath

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Atom wrote:

Honestly, Aculag, I haven't talked about any of my movies/what I'm doing in so long, it's not even funny. But even then, my own things have no bearing on what I or anyone else say to anyone. PLENTY of people have said long things in multiple posts (Solthar, for instance) to great extents in this thread already.

I'm entitled to my own opinion on it; if you don't want it, I suppose I'll just stop commenting on and watching your stuff.

I'm sorry you took my comment in such a sour manner, as well. You had to have expected it from someone, though. People can only be so courteous, every once in a while you're going to get that brutally honest, harsh critic on some front. Here, unfortunately, it's me. I'm not a trolling YouTuber, I'm a filmmaker and fan of yours, and I'm expressing my annoyance with something- since you put it on here open to such criticism. I guess next time I won't take the time to fully flesh out my thoughts in detail, as apparently that's not welcome by you.

You'll always be a very talented filmmaker, Fred, and I'll always probably enjoy your movies. But your tact with them lately, and the pretenses you surround them with bother me- and if you won't accept that- or are going to respond with such dismissiveness, I'll just leave you and your movies alone.

I don't mean to condescend, I'm just trying to help. Say what you want, let Aculag back you up (he's been gunning against anything I've ever said on here for years anyway)- I don't care. Like I said, I ask some questions, I'm trying to help. That's all.

Geez man. unsure
OKAY okay, I'm going to take a step back and try to look at it from your perspective here. First this isn't criticism on me or the films. I'm not on here for you to criticize my labels/format i answer question. Sure tell me the movie sucked. But i guess i was put off by how you were critiquing something so passionately that i already explained to you and didn't feel was a big deal. Yet you still say it SEEMS this way, but i'm here telling what it is. No need for speculation.

I'm sorry I lost you as a viewer because of this. I truly am.
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 5:23am

Post 44 of 59

ben3308

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FCRabbath wrote:

You're better than that Ben. Be better than that.
Wrong person, bro.
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 5:24am

Post 45 of 59

FCRabbath

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ben3308 wrote:

FCRabbath wrote:

You're better than that Ben. Be better than that.
Wrong person, bro.
Oops. Do apologize ben.
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 5:27am

Post 46 of 59

ben3308

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No problem, man. But I do mean what I said a page back about the disclaimer being disenchanting; my biggest lament of the pre-roll has nothing to do with pride or credit, only its diminishing of the 'magic' of your films by grounding them in real-life facts of their production.
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 6:28am

Post 47 of 59

Aculag

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To be honest, it does kinda make you think "Oh, yeah this does look like an amateur production!" I don't have an issue with it apart from that.
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 7:13am

Post 48 of 59

Sollthar

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A big fat disclaimer that runs before the film IS part of the film. At least as far as I'm concerned. smile

Anyways, I think all has been said though? FCRabbath doesn't seem to want to change it and listen to the advice, and that's his right. Now let's move on.
Posted: Fri, 15th Oct 2010, 1:35pm

Post 49 of 59

FCRabbath

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Sollthar wrote:

A big fat disclaimer that runs before the film IS part of the film. At least as far as I'm concerned. smile

Anyways, I think all has been said though? FCRabbath doesn't seem to want to change it and listen to the advice, and that's his right. Now let's move on.
I will just like to point out that i am listening, and i will no longer be putting up price stuff on the video but instead post less accurate information (as in no to low budget film as an explanation) in the description box below. That way HOPEFULLY everyone is happy.
Posted: Sun, 17th Oct 2010, 8:14pm

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Bryce007

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I'm curious, and not in a sarcastic way, about the reason you prefer mentioning the budget of a film whatsoever?
Posted: Sun, 17th Oct 2010, 10:15pm

Post 51 of 59

Serpent

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I think using the term "Student Film" is a *much* classier way of letting people know you don't have funding for your short. But that's just me. Lets people know you're a student, probably just as poor as any other student, and you're still working toward something.
Posted: Sun, 17th Oct 2010, 10:21pm

Post 52 of 59

FCRabbath

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Serpent - Perhaps, but at the same time they might think that i'm in the film school and receive professional advice. I've never taken a film class in my life and i feel to put such a title will immediately connect me with "Oh he's a film student"
NOT THAT it's a bad thing, but it would be inaccurate.

Bryce007 - As mentioned it is the MOST asked question. A common message I got below prior to mentioning the budget.

"I find it curious why you don't mention your budget? I (and other film school students) think mentioning the budget would be extremely honest. In fact you should post all your budget info in the front of the film. This is would be respectable tactic as it presents an open communication with your youtube audience. I for one would love such information, along side what equipment you've used to make that particular production. "

Another

"CAN YOU PLEASE POST HOW MUCH EXACTLY YOU SPENT ON THE FILM!"

Another

" Dude, post your damn budget and sh** you keep everyone in the dark. Why are you so secretive?"
Posted: Sun, 17th Oct 2010, 10:31pm

Post 53 of 59

Pooky

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Yeah I think mentioning it in the Video description would be the best thing to do. It helps these guys sleep at night, and it makes your movies look better to the rest of us!
Posted: Sun, 17th Oct 2010, 10:32pm

Post 54 of 59

FCRabbath

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Pooky wrote:

Yeah I think mentioning it in the Video description would be the best thing to do. It helps these guys sleep at night, and it makes your movies look better to the rest of us!
Agreed.
Posted: Sun, 17th Oct 2010, 10:59pm

Post 55 of 59

swintonmaximilian

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Fred, those questions about budget, the one's you posted, those are not questions you as a film maker have any responsibility to answer. I mean, look at them, the first one is from students who think you owe them something because they can't make a film like you can and it pisses them off. The second is from someone with issues, and the third is from someone who is either mentally unstable or an enormous ass hole. Why would you answer any of these people? You owe them NOTHING.

Honestly, post budget info if you feel you have to, but I agree do it in the description so it's not part of the film.

Anyway, looking forward to the film.

Max
Posted: Mon, 18th Oct 2010, 7:24am

Post 56 of 59

Sollthar

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"CAN YOU PLEASE POST HOW MUCH EXACTLY YOU SPENT ON THE FILM!"

" Dude, post your damn budget and sh** you keep everyone in the dark. Why are you so secretive?"
That's exactly the type I meant. Do you seriously want an audience like that? One shouts and the other is just an idiot who believes you owe him something...

You owe no one anything. Not them, not us.
Posted: Mon, 18th Oct 2010, 8:35am

Post 57 of 59

rogolo

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Heh, you must be incredibly naïve and/or optimistic to expect people to read descriptions when looking for information. Neither of you have spent more than 5 seconds reading YouTube comments, I suppose? (And that is not a bad thing, mind you! smile)
Posted: Mon, 18th Oct 2010, 9:01am

Post 58 of 59

Sollthar

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to expect people to read descriptions when looking for information.
Heh, I' ve been in the fxhome chatroom and forums long enough to know todays internet generation mostly doesn't look up or read up information anywhere - they create a topic or ask (even things that are written down right above their heads, in manuals or would require a decently intelligent human being a couple of minutes to figure out) and expect people they don't even know (!) to take the time to answer the same thing hundreds of times just because they want to know it whenever they feel like knowing it. Or even better yet, they expect you to write a complete tutorial so they can do it too!

Believe me. I get tons of emails and replies with tons of questions (often the same basic ones), just like FCRabbath here. And just like FCRabbath, I sometimes get strong reactions when I decide not to answer or write something like "try google". The difference is, FCRabbath seems to have problems to take that heat, I don't. I'm not obligued to answer anything.

I work as a teacher and as such, I get paid to answer peoples questions and hep them and teach them. That's my job. At least during working hours.

My job as a filmmaker is NOT to spend hours of my time, or even 5 seconds, answering questions of my audience. I do that, when I do it, out of free will and simple courtesy. Anyone who expects I'm under any sort of obligation to spend 30 minutes every couple of days to explain some wannabe kid my techniques, budgets, equipment or how he can use his own software over MSN, Youtube or Email just because they ask is mistaken. And everyone who gets angry when I don't feel like explaining anything is an idiot and free to not continue to follow my work in the future. No loss.

As Tarn said. You cultivate your own audience with your reactions.
Posted: Mon, 18th Oct 2010, 10:27am

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Simon K Jones

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Maybe on the next video Rabbath should have a title card at the start saying that the budget was $120 million. That'd really get some discussion going.