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Tron Legacy

Posted: Tue, 9th Nov 2010, 6:16pm

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Staff Only

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So the final trailer is here. Little over a month left. I'm still nervous about CGI-flynn. The rest of the film looks kick-ass. Thoughts?

Trailer 3#
Posted: Tue, 9th Nov 2010, 6:34pm

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Aculag

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Not going to watch this one. The film is so close, I can wait.
Posted: Tue, 9th Nov 2010, 7:23pm

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Staff Only

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I envy your self-control.
Posted: Tue, 9th Nov 2010, 7:42pm

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pdrg

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I have a pair of 8' vinyl posters for this movie - £50 for charity, anyone?

EDIT: One of the best South Park episodes is the Tron/Facebook one ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgxb2olC6s

Last edited Tue, 9th Nov 2010, 7:49pm; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 9th Nov 2010, 7:45pm

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rogolo

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Egh....CGI Flynn is definitely has a foot (or two!) in the Uncanny Valley. Hopefully, seen in context of the film, it shall blend in a bit more.

Otherwise, definitely excited. 'Twill be the only movie of the year I'd consider ponying up the $19 for 3D IMAX to see. smile
Posted: Tue, 9th Nov 2010, 8:00pm

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Pooky

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pdrg - How much for one? razz
Posted: Tue, 9th Nov 2010, 10:04pm

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danielgwood

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Just watched this, epic trailer. Can't wait!
Posted: Tue, 9th Nov 2010, 10:08pm

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swintonmaximilian

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CG Flynn looks terrible, although I'm sure they have a lot of work to do on him before the film is released. I hope so anyway.

Overall, the trailer didn't grab me as much as the last one, which didn't grab me as much as the first one. Looking forward to this, but less so actually having seen this trailer.
Posted: Tue, 9th Nov 2010, 10:36pm

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What really bothers me is not so much that CGI Flynn doesn't quite fit in, but it's just not good enough CGI. The hair, the stubble and the skin doesn't look good enough. To top it all off the motion capture looks really stiff. It's like they had way less dots on his face then they should have. Avatar had excellent acting with no uncanny valley and so did Benjamin Button. Both of those films would have sunk or made it on those visual effects alone. If the Na'vi or CGI-Brad Pitt didn't work the films would fail. Still the fact that CGI Flynn isn't the main focus of Tron Legacy is no excuse. Remember the very underrated: Dr. Manhattan? He wasn't the focus of Watchmen (a very cheap film compared to Avatar, Benjamin Button, Pirates etc.) and he still had some amazing acting. Dr. Manhattan, Benjamin Button and Neytiri were all made by separate companies. Beating the uncanny valley is no-longer groundbreaking (though still very impressive), it's expected of big budget movies that risk having a CGI character who "acts".

If CGI Flynn was just a little short of Benjamin Button/Dr. Manhattan quality I would be fine, but he is Beowulf quality in the trailers. Why? Is it budgetary problems? I'd like to hear Hybrid-Halo comment.

Please let him look awesome in the movie, but I'm seriously nervous. If they have bad mo-cap there is nothing they can do, and if the CGI model isn't good there is only a tiny hope that we aren't we seeing a final render in the trailer.
Posted: Tue, 9th Nov 2010, 11:25pm

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pdrg

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Pooky wrote:

pdrg - How much for one? razz
Fifty quid, I'll throw in the secon one free! One is some beardy bloke, the other is a foxy filly, life-sized - you can see why one is worth(?) more than the other wink

Any other offers?
Posted: Wed, 10th Nov 2010, 3:09am

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rogolo

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pdrg wrote:

the other is a foxy filly, life-sized - you can see why one is worth(?) more than the other wink
Good thing vinyl is easy to clean, then.
Posted: Wed, 10th Nov 2010, 3:38pm

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alienux

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I can't wait to see this. Its been one of my most anticipated movies of the year. And, although I've had the collector's edition DVD of the original Tron for some time, I wish they'd confirm a date for the blu-ray release for the original film. My wife wants to watch it again before Legacy is out, and I'd prefer to wait and watch it on blu-ray, but the release date seems to still be speculative.
Posted: Mon, 13th Dec 2010, 11:46pm

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Mellifluous

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Saw this earlier...so if you don't want to be spoiled, look away.















So, yeah. I was anticipating this but it was disappointing. Going into it I prepared to have fun and not take it seriously, but this is a film that takes itself incredibly seriously. I wanted something with the knowing humour and panache of Speed Racer; I got something that felt like it was trying to be Inception or The Matrix Reloaded.

The visuals that are demonstrated in the trailer are great...there's some nice CGI where characters explode into particles, but the effects are no Avatar. CGI Flynn isn't Uncanny Valley - it's not that good. Some costume choices made me scratch my head in their silliness and datedness; others looked great and made me think a Mass Effect movie would look damn good. The script in general is fairly poor though I did like a scene that paralleled a scene that took place early in the film - in thought rather than execution. Dialogue is bad and it'll provide you with many lines to chuckle over.

Acting is so so by the youth lead and Olivia Wilde. Jeff Bridges is over the top, as is Michael Sheen in a ridiculous cameo that upped the campness in what's already a camp movie.

For the record, this is what Sheen looks like in it:
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjA5NjU4MDYyOF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzU1MjcxNA@@._V1_.jpg

Anyway, lower your expectations big time.
Posted: Mon, 13th Dec 2010, 11:51pm

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Micah master studios

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I am so looking forward to TRON! It looks so cool. biggrin smile cool wink surprised razz
Posted: Mon, 13th Dec 2010, 11:51pm

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Pooky

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Hehehehehe
Posted: Mon, 13th Dec 2010, 11:53pm

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Micah master studios

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what does that mean?
Posted: Tue, 14th Dec 2010, 9:51am

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Simon K Jones

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Mellifluous wrote:

Michael Sheen in a ridiculous cameo that upped the campness in what's already a camp movie.
Camp AND over-serious at the same time? Intriguing!
Posted: Tue, 14th Dec 2010, 11:54am

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I still can't buy tickets. I was getting so worried (it's on FRIDAY and there are no tickets!) so I called the company that runs all the cinemas in Oslo and they are still negotiating with Disney as we speak! The tickets could come out in 5 minutes, or there could be no premiere at all on Friday!! surprised

WTF Disney?! We don't have the worlds largest THX-certified cinema for nothing! I can't believe Norway might not get a giant blockbuster on time in 2010. This is outrageous.
Posted: Wed, 15th Dec 2010, 4:46pm

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I wanted to share this epic failure with you guys, but all the papers are in Norwegian. I finally found a blogger who's written about it English.

http://leetlady.com/blog/?p=10954

The English isn't very good, but you'll get the idea. It means that we will have to see Tron: Legacy, yes Tron: Legacy, in crappy out-of-town theaters. I am very disappointed. Any sympathy for myself, Tommy Gundersen (and maybe Klut)?
Posted: Wed, 15th Dec 2010, 4:50pm

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Simon K Jones

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Ouch. I seem to recall Disney causing a similar fuss last year, or perhaps the year before, but annoyingly I can't remember the specifics of which movie it was.

I wouldn't just blame the cinema chain, though, as this sound like it's equally Disney's fault. Gotta love it when large corporations get so obsessed with competing with each other that they forget about the actual customers.
Posted: Wed, 15th Dec 2010, 4:56pm

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Yeah, it feels really weird. Thousands (okey, not that much for Disney) of Norwegians were going to see it this weekend for sure. Disney even had a special event in town this week. They are going to lose money and a lot of state-of-the art 3D screens converted for Avatar will be showing a local film or Harry Potter. It's a shame.
Posted: Fri, 17th Dec 2010, 9:24pm

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Completely disagree with the earlier review. This made me doubt that Inception is the best film of the year, and it's easily the best 3D-experience and best film released in 3D ever. Avatar, How To Train Your Dragon and every other 3D-film can only eat its dust.

Tron: Legacy will blow you away. I have no clu why the earlier reviewer in this thread expected a Speed Racer kind of film (that would have sucked bigtime), but this film delivers in every way. The story, the script, the execution are all flawless with the exception of CGI-Bridges who looks great in a few shots, but often is easily spotted as CGI (though not overly distracting/better than Beowulf). If you liked the original Tron (like me) you will be in love with this film. If not you'll probably still enjoy it.

Instead of saying lower your expectations (like the other review) I say: expect nothing. If you go in expecting Speed Racer, The Matrix, Inception, Blade Runner or anything; you'll be disappointed because Tron: Legacy is a Tron film in the Tron universe. Unlike Inception which can say that it's "The Matrix and Bond", Tron has its own unique thing and it is awesome.

The most standout thing in the film is without the doubt Joseph Kosinski's visual style. The way he frames thing and uses smooth tracking shots for everything works perfectly and I think there are so many "See what I did there?"-shots in the film that you wonder how much time was spent storyboarding and pre-viz-ing. The way he uses color and framing to lead your eye is masterful. It is the anti-shakycam film. The action scenes look very different and fresh because of the complete absence of any kind of hand-held look to any shot in the entire film.

Daft Punks score is easily one of the years best. It's right there next to Inception and How To Train Your Dragon and you can tell that they worked really hard (they are major Tron fans). Their cameo is also hilarious (if you notice one thing that might go over your head).

All in all it is a must see for everyone, but particularly people who have ever called themselves sci-fi nerds.

10/10 without a doubt.
Posted: Sat, 18th Dec 2010, 12:25am

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Pooky

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Pretty worrying that it has 47% on RottenTomatoes... confused
Posted: Sat, 18th Dec 2010, 9:01am

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Staff Only

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Yeah, that really saddened me. This film is going to take the cake for most critically underrated/misunderstood. I was hoping the critics had gone in there as Tron fans and were going to enjoy the ride, but they seem to be complaining about stuff like "impenetrable plot". The plot isn't hard to follow, but it is just as weird as the first film in the sense that we don't write living programs in real life. How does that even work? But that is what it means to be a Tron film. To me it's like attacking Star Wars because there is sound in space.
Posted: Sat, 18th Dec 2010, 7:44pm

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alienux

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I saw Tron Legacy last night and I completely agree with Staff Only. This is an outstanding film, and it delivers in every way that I had hoped for, having been a Tron fan since the first film was released.

I also appreciated the way the 3D was handled. It wasn't gimmicky at all, and it was kind of cool how they took a Wizard of Oz approach for using film technology to separate two different worlds. And, the 3D in the digital world was almost subtle rather than "in-your-face" which I thought was great.

Personally, I think I would rank the original Tron a little higher, but this was easily one of my personal favorite films of the year.
Posted: Sat, 18th Dec 2010, 9:21pm

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Thrawn

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Great, ANOTHER movie to go see.. That's the sixth on my list. Tonight, I have to choose between Tron: Legacy, Black Swan, 127 Hours, The Fighter, Tangled, and The Kings Speech (though that may not be playing locally..).
Posted: Sat, 18th Dec 2010, 10:49pm

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Pooky

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Do what I do in these dire circumstances: see 4 of em in a row. Makes for a fun day!
Posted: Sun, 19th Dec 2010, 8:23am

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Atom

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Skip 127 Hours or Black Swan and make time and effort to see The King's Speech and Tron Legacy.

Like, seriously.
Posted: Sun, 19th Dec 2010, 11:05am

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Staff Only

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I'm really glad you liked it, Atom! Looking forward to seeing your review. Did you see it with Ben? Did he like it as well?
Posted: Sun, 19th Dec 2010, 11:50am

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Atom

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I haven't seen it, I'm just prioritizing Thrawn's life for him. wink

I suspect it'll be awesome, though. As a trailer editor, for one, I feel like I can tell when there's a certain economy of shots/scenes/emotions/plot in a movie based on the materials they present in the trailer- and as it's been refreshing and different each trailer release for Tron Legacy, I'm excited to think that logistics tell me the movie has to be good. Or at least engaging.

Plus, everyone knows this. I'm a production values/design guy. (Have you seen my apartment? biggrin) This movie is immaculate. The cast is great. The trailer is moment-of-truth-y in all the ways it needs to be.

I've been sold on this being an absolutely magical, engrossing, and enjoyable movie for months. I'm just waiting until I can get to an IMAX 3D screen before I see it.

I won't be let down because I don't let myself get astronomical expectations on anything anyway- and I appreciate good 'cool' moments and flawless production design far more than the average person could ever dream to.

So yeah, I expect this movie to be fantastic. I am, of course, holding judgement on the whole thing until I properly see the movie.

But knowing Thrawn, I could/can easily go ahead and see Black Swan and 127 Hours after you get around to seeing Tron. Those make absolutely no difference in a theater of not. You let Tron Legacy pass you up in a theater? Or you see it late and miss-out on a chance to catch it in 3D (and you know I hate that gimmick, but still worth mentioning here)?
Posted: Sun, 19th Dec 2010, 12:01pm

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Staff Only

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Thanks for the detailed response!

You'll be thrilled to know (if you don't already) that director Joseph Kosinski is an alumnus of Columbia Graduate School of Architecture, Planning and Preservation, currently an adjunct assistant professor of architecture where he helps students in 3D modeling and graphics. In 2008, he spoke in detail about his education in architecture, pushing the technological envelope in commercials and his eventual progression to feature films (Source) and it really shows in the film. It also said in the latest Empire issue that they made Kubrick jokes on set because of his perfectionism.

Have you seen Tron (1982)? You really must. It will double your enjoyment of Legacy (which as you pointed out is already a film you'll probably really enjoy).
Posted: Sun, 19th Dec 2010, 1:17pm

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Atom

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Oh, no Staff Only, I'm familiar with Kosinski. His work on the Halo ads was the single best thing to come out of that franchise, and his backing in architecture (which is what everyone in both sides of my family works in as a profession- besides Ben and I) just makes me like him more.

A game trailer director- perhaps the best one- who has cursory knowledge of special design and picks Daft Punk to do the score. And it's all on a Tron movie.

I'm sorry, but that sounds like a slam-dunk to me. wink

To answer your question- yes, I've seen Tron a few times in bits (at one point long ago, altogether)- but it's been at least a few years. I might need to watch it again.
Posted: Sun, 19th Dec 2010, 2:01pm

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Yes, I definitely look urge you to see it again before Legacy. My brother and I sat down and saw it only hours before we went to see Legacy and were blown away.

Everything you said in your post is true and I can't wait to hear back when you've seen it. Going in as a fan of Kosinski and the original is really the best possible way to do it. Have fun!

I just want to add, that Daft Punk really amazed me. Their score is such a perfect mix of electronica and classic John Williams/John Powell film-score music. I was worried that we would get a Matrix-style score where 50% of the music sounded like it was made by DJs in a night-club, but that's not the case at all. I really want the Academy Award to go to Daft Punk.
Posted: Sun, 19th Dec 2010, 5:48pm

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ben3308

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FYI, the 'film score' parts of the soundtrack aren't by Daft Punk, Hans Zimmer was called in last-minute to right some wrongs that the band had made in terms of being too electronic/not cinematic enough. So what you're hearing is, despite some drama in hiring, an eclectic mix of Daft Punk and Zimmer.
Posted: Sun, 19th Dec 2010, 5:55pm

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Aculag

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ben3308 wrote:

FYI, the 'film score' parts of the soundtrack aren't by Daft Punk, Hans Zimmer was called in last-minute to right some wrongs that the band had made in terms of being too electronic/not cinematic enough. So what you're hearing is, despite some drama in hiring, an eclectic mix of Daft Punk and Zimmer.
That really sucks, because I really want more electronica in that score. The orchestral stuff doesn't seem like it would fit into the film. Granted, I haven't seen it yet, but I've listened to the score quite a few times, and while it's good, it's nothing like what I expected.
Posted: Sun, 19th Dec 2010, 8:18pm

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Hybrid-Halo

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Aculag wrote:

That really sucks, because I really want more electronica in that score. The orchestral stuff doesn't seem like it would fit into the film.
...Have you heard the original sountrack? razz
Posted: Sun, 19th Dec 2010, 11:53pm

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ben3308 wrote:

FYI, the 'film score' parts of the soundtrack aren't by Daft Punk, Hans Zimmer was called in last-minute to right some wrongs that the band had made in terms of being too electronic/not cinematic enough. So what you're hearing is, despite some drama in hiring, an eclectic mix of Daft Punk and Zimmer.
Wow Ben. Can I get a source? I've spent the last 3 days almost worshiping Daft Punk for going from an electronic duo to super badass "on par with Zimmer" filmscorers. Turns out it was Zimmer. xD

It makes perfect sense. Here I was ready to believe Daft Punk were not mere mortals, but gods that could spend their entire life making electronic music and then at the drop of a hat compose and conduct a giant orchestra. (It might sound like that was sarcasm, but it's not.) I became a big admirer of them because I thought they did Zimmer's work. And I can't find any official reports that it happened. Very sneaky Disney.
Posted: Mon, 20th Dec 2010, 12:24am

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Hybrid-Halo

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Staff Only wrote:

It makes perfect sense. Here I was ready to believe Daft Punk were not mere mortals, but gods that could spend their entire life making electronic music and then at the drop of a hat compose and conduct a giant orchestra.
The album was mixed at Remote Control Studios, which is owned by Hans Zimmer - so anybody who's been paying any attention at all to this thing would already assume that Zimmer would have a hand in sculpting the Daft Punk input to this soundtrack.

The idea that Daft Punk are new to scoring movies is bogus, Thomas Bangalter scored the entire (incredible) soundtrack to Irreversible, with Bangalter also being Sound Effects director on Enter the Void.

So what's new?
Posted: Mon, 20th Dec 2010, 4:35am

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Thrawn

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Atom wrote:


But knowing Thrawn, I could/can easily go ahead and see Black Swan and 127 Hours after you get around to seeing Tron. Those make absolutely no difference in a theater of not. You let Tron Legacy pass you up in a theater? Or you see it late and miss-out on a chance to catch it in 3D (and you know I hate that gimmick, but still worth mentioning here)?
My life = Prioritized. Thank you. smile
Posted: Mon, 20th Dec 2010, 5:36am

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ben3308

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Saw Tron. Loved the movie, loved the production design. More on that later.

Far better visual direction than Speed Racer, and somewhat worse acting direction than Speed Racer, which I think has masterful acting/emotional direction in the ending.

Some of the cinematography in the movie was distracting (as in, flowed well but lost track of 'absolutes' in the frame, and got in the way of me understanding the architecture of the space that the people were in some of the time. But this makes sense, because Tron originally was just one or two digital planes and a simple camera that couldn't go beyond those. By and large, though, the production design and direction makes the movie. I was hoping for an "It doesn't matter if racing never changes. What matters is if we let racing change us." type ending that takes something trivial (computer games) and makes it, in a real world sense, very important. Tron didn't quite get there for me.

Because Tron took all of itself seriously in the context of the movie, it wouldn't have made sense for it to re-contextualize itself in more real-world terms. Let me explain further. When I watched Speed Racer, the whole movie was ridiculously stupid and mostly bad-looking for the story parts. Everyone has this religious, zealous connection to racing that makes the movie incredulous, and gives the audience reason to totally doubt the 'reality' of the movie. Then, in the end, the absolute credence of the whole film is given in a montage that typifies the importance of racing, and it doesn't just make sense in the context of the movie - it starts to make sense in real life. They make racing important. I left Speed Racer feeling like racing, outside of the world of the movie even, was important.

So Tron Legacy, on the other hand, has its principled 'systems' - a world wherein 'games' and 'programs' are important and dire - but it treats them all realistically the whole movie, so there's little room for the ending to break it down for us and say, "look, this is why we treated these things with such importance, it applies on a real level" because, in the more subdued (compared to Speed Racer) context of the movie, the ending (which isn't a twist or anything, just a moment-of-truth) wants to maintain the same verisimilitude; so it can't take as large a narrative stride as Speed Racer did. More on this later.

I sat in the far left of the theater I was in, and the projection and 3D looked bad from where I was. Half the time I wanted to take off my 3D glasses, and I see TONS of movies in theaters and tons in 3D. But this projection, mixed with my viewing angle, netted a terrible screening. At the end - and I've never done this in my life, having seen quite literally almost a thousand movies in theaters - I asked for my money back.

I'm going to see it again sometime soon, maybe tomorrow, in 2D. Either that, or at a proper IMAX theater. But I'll re-review once I've seen it properly, because my screening was far from ideal.
Posted: Mon, 20th Dec 2010, 6:00am

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Atom

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Just got back from this. Before I say anything, let me mention that I did not sit with Ben- who got the last seat left in the theater and was in the close left corner the whole time- and his movie-going experience and 3D immersion was all but bastardized by this. He actually asked for his money back. So I'm sure he's a bit......grouchy right now perspective-wise, so I can't comment on his legitimate reaction. But here's mine, as best I can describe it.

Basically, it's amazing. Yeah, it cheeses-it-up in some parts- but others are appropriately, surprisingly, and even at points refreshingly profound. This movie is slick, the world is jaw-dropping, and the whole film is a cinematic spectacle that is hard to articulate. When you add to this the fact that it carries very strong themes and certain pseudo-religious undertones I really appreciated and connected with- as well as a clear sense of vision, style, and overall 'essence'- and you've got some incredible on your hands.

And that is exactly what Tron Legacy is. Incredible.

People maybe forgot- in the somewhat over-saturation of the film's promotional materials showing off the production values- or the Oscar win earlier this year to elevate Jeff Bridges to 'Oscar guy that got his due' status- or the hype surrounding the scoring by such phenoms as Daft Punk- that all those things- all of it- are products and components of the overall film.

They exist because of the film, and the film exists because of them. And separating the two really isn't fair- because when I sit back and think about this movie, all I can do is smile.

Just, wow. What a spectacle. What a movie.

And with the emotional, thematic, cinematic, moment-of-truth ending I so often long for in blockbusters but really get. Not since Speed Racer have I really been that fully satisfied with an ending. And not by virtue of the plot- or the pacing up to it- or even the acting. No, some might snap at me and call those suspect or jab at the seams that are slightly un-spooling.

Tron Legacy finds it's footing, it feels lasting, and it leaves an overall aura about me- an impression- because it manages to capture a feeling in a world, and engross me in it entirely. It didn't matter if all the circuits lined up exactly (although I felt much of the writing was rather good, as opposed to many people here and some critics)- or if there were minor portions that weren't perfection.

Because, and this is the truth of any wholly-satisfying film like this one: If it entices you. If the beginning draws you in, if the characters engross you, the themes move you, and the end leaves you with a sense of completeness or profound resolve- as this movie did with me- then the journey to hitting those milestones doesn't really matter.

This was, in all the right ways, the Speed Racer of this year. And then, additionally, it was also so much more. So much of intricate genius- in everything from concept to design to completion on a technical and stylistic filmmaking level.

And the 3D. It worked.

As an opponent of the gimmick, for the most part, I don't think it 'made' the film- but I can easily say it's the best use I've seen from it thus far, and did help Tron Legacy where it could've hurt it. Now, have I seen better movies than this one this year? Absolutely. Is it the most harmonious of blockbusters? Does it blow Inception out of the water? Well, no.

But it also achieves so much more- on so many other levels. It hits chords and elevates traits of sci-fi films no other this year could even hope to. What others I suppose saw in Avatar (a movie I didn't, in the end, malign- but didn't find all that great either) about world-building and living vicariously, I see in this.

It isn't perfect, no. And the facial-mapping/de-aging isn't flawless. But- and this is perhaps to many viewers' account the primary theme to the film- it is the presence of flaws in this shiny, lit glass show that gives it it's ultimate beauty. There isn't perfection, because it doesn't exist. And yet, we see it all the time in the pursuit of it.

Tron Legacy is this.

It doesn't quite reach the level of perfection it'd like you to think it has/wants to- but there is so much awe to be had in the film trying to get there, that you can't help but marvel at it. The world, the excitement, the music. (Which you'd be high off your ass to think Hans Zimmer didn't retool/retweak the sh!t out of.) All of it.

Tron Legacy pulls you into the grid and encapsulates you. It's a beautiful, beautiful film that I feel took everything it knew and found all the right people and made all the right choices as best it could.

And that is both a rarity and a gift, and it's one I'm grateful for.

10/10.
Posted: Mon, 20th Dec 2010, 2:02pm

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alienux

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Atom wrote:

Tron Legacy finds it's footing, it feels lasting, and it leaves an overall aura about me- an impression- because it manages to capture a feeling in a world, and engross me in it entirely. It didn't matter if all the circuits lined up exactly (although I felt much of the writing was rather good, as opposed to many people here and some critics)- or if there were minor portions that weren't perfection.
I don't have anything to add, but wanted to pick out this paragraph and just say, well said.
Posted: Tue, 21st Dec 2010, 9:00pm

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Tommy Gundersen

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Mellifluous wrote:



So, yeah. I was anticipating this but it was disappointing. Going into it I prepared to have fun and not take it seriously, but this is a film that takes itself incredibly seriously. I wanted something with the knowing humour and panache of Speed Racer; I got something that felt like it was trying to be Inception or The Matrix Reloaded.

I am sorry, Mellifluous, but I get the impression you haven't seen / didn't grow up along with the original Tron. You seem to have seen a trailer on Apple, liked it and disappointed with the few dollars you spent on a ticket to the cinema.

So I'll try my best to enlighten you.

The original Tron came in 1982. It was something entirely new, surprising and huge at its time. While the movie was in production, an arcade game by the name "Tron" was released. To clarify, the movie came into production, THEN the game came, and then the movie was released. So it was neither a film based on a game, nor the other way around. It was a beloved mix for the gaming fans gathering in the game-house every day down at the corner.

I wasn't one of these, that was my dad whom I've heard stories about "The old arcade days" over and over again. He was one of the ultimate Tron fanboys, going by the username Flynn, and still does.

The original film was a breakthrough in visual effects, something like no one had ever seen before. That's the main difference between the original and Tron: Legacy. This new movie didn't (and never expected to) change much in how people look at films.

You claiming it to take itself too serious, strikes me as odd. Speaking from an experience of observing my dad reuniting with his childhood "Dreams" so to speak, I need you to hear this:

Tron: Legacy was very true at heart to the original Tron. The Flynn house was realisticly reconstructed, tons of amazing references for the old fans, a very good story within the Tron universe and interesting from beginning to ending. And best of all, it sacrificed what "you were expecting" to hold onto it's own charm. Not many sequels with such a huge time-gap manages that.


For me personally, it was more in the perspective of Sam Flynn. I got to enter the world my dad grew up in, so it was an interesting experience for me as well. I agree with you on the CGI of Clu, though would like to point out that's an important sacrifice for all the points I stated above pluss the plot. Using a different actor would be unacceptable for old-time fans. It would be like making a new Star Wars 30 years later in the plot after Return of The Jedi, without starring Mark Hamill. (To draw a far fetched example.)

Tron: Legacy gives an amazing closure for "Good old times." and was spectacular all the way through, imho.


This isn't a movie who takes its plot too seriously ... It's a movie taking the part of keeping its own roots regardless of modern expectations, seriously.

For the rest of your post (pluss the CGI point), are all opinions razz

Thanks for reading.
Posted: Tue, 21st Dec 2010, 11:02pm

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Mellifluous

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Tommy - I was too young to see Tron when it came out (as were you, I may add) but I have seen it on a couple of occasions between the age of 12 and now. I saw it with another fan of the film who was having the same reactions as I was throughout the film.

I appreciate the strength of nostalgia, and Tron: Legacy does well in addressing that - as well as giving better visualisation to things like the light cycles.

However, I still judge Tron: Legacy by the standards of any present day movie in terms of story, character, cohesion...

My "taking itself seriously" comment and Speed Racer comments have been misunderstood. These refer to Tron: Legacy's tone. The first had a silly tone, e.g. the computer character that could only say "yes" or "no". They don't mean I expected a film like Speed Racer or Inception, but I expected the tone to be more in keeping with Speed Racer rather than trying to be Inception. It is a Disney, kid's movie after all.
Posted: Tue, 21st Dec 2010, 11:23pm

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Tommy Gundersen

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When was it a kid's movie? ;P
Posted: Tue, 21st Dec 2010, 11:39pm

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Staff Only

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I just wanted to say I enjoyed your reviews Atom and Tommy. I would also like to mention the nice effect your avatar has to all your posts Tommy! wink Especially that last one.
Posted: Tue, 21st Dec 2010, 11:59pm

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Aculag

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Speaking of avatars, what happened to yours, Staff Only? I always think you're some nobody when I see your posts these days, until I glance over at the name. Get on that. wink
Posted: Wed, 22nd Dec 2010, 12:26am

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Tommy Gundersen

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Haha well thanks, Staff smile The movie met the expectations you were giving the impression of ;P

Mellifluous - Where does the Speed Racer comparison drawn from anyways? There are no similarities to be drawn anywhere, other than a teenager who enjoys riding vehicles? I believe that was the main thing who made me react on your post ... biggrin It pretty much came out of nowhere, so I thought you might have been expecting a movie based on the Lightcycles in particular! Because that's the old arcade game "Tron". Then you have the other ping-pong type fights which I can't remember the name of, which is also another standalone arcadegame.

Though Tron, the movies, are so much more smile Evil A.I. taking over, live organism being transferred into a digitalized world, games, evil plots from the "programs" to invade the real world, a father lost in digital space and a son trying to bring him back home, etc ....

I guess I just didn't understand / agree with your opinions. Would like some backing argument to why the dialogues were bad though, other than them being "bad" ... Because I didn't feel that, so I would like to know why it's so bad smile

EDIT: Or examples! Hehe... Because I don't have the insanely sticky memory like Staff Only, which can suddenly quote me entire chapters from a movie we saw 5 years ago ... Creepy ... confused
Posted: Fri, 24th Dec 2010, 4:49am

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Atom

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Sort of an odd place to begin, but hey!
Posted: Fri, 24th Dec 2010, 5:32am

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Garrison

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SPOILERS BELOW

I saw it today at an IMAX theater and I generally liked it.

Visually, some great stuff is in there. From Jeff Bridges younger self (Clu & the prelude) to all the much needed improvements of the light cycles, frisbee disc, recognizers and the light jets introduced.

Some great nods to the first TRON; Dillinger's son, Alan, and even Flynn's arcade was so weird to see again after 28 years (that makes me feel old just typing it).

I do like a lot of the new additions (Zeus, Tron with the 2 discs, the arenas with the crowds and even the suits) as it helps to make it feel a lot more relevant.

I'm not too sure how I feel about the music/score. I know Daft Punk but there were some moments for me that it worked, and then some orchestral stuff that just felt awkward.

Story-wise, meh it was all so-so. I understand Papa Flynn was saving the world by "doing nothing" for 15 years in the digital realm, but that is kinda uninspiring for a story. Plus according to Papa Flynn a few hours in the digital realm are like minutes in the real world then that could easily make the time 30 years. So for 30 years, Clu couldn't find Papa Flynn???

But what I did like was how Clu and Sam both felt abandon by Kevin so that was an interesting theme.

Would I buy this on Blu Ray? Definitely. Lots to be interested in as far as production is concerned.
Posted: Fri, 24th Dec 2010, 11:46am

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Staff Only

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Garrison wrote:

Plus according to Papa Flynn a few hours in the digital realm are like minutes in the real world then that could easily make the time 30 years. So for 30 years, Clu couldn't find Papa Flynn???
I read Kevin Flynn was stuck in there for a thousand years (on his side). Can't be bothered checking where (I think Kosinski told Empire), but yeah. Not only is it weird that Clu couldn't find him, but does Flynn even remember who he is?

Garrison wrote:

Would I buy this on Blu Ray? Definitely. Lots to be interested in as far as production is concerned.
You should check this out.

Aculag wrote:

Speaking of avatars, what happened to yours, Staff Only? I always think you're some nobody when I see your posts these days, until I glance over at the name. Get on that. wink
Hmmm, I decided to delete it. Kinda thought I should lay low after accidentally flaming an admin. I'll try to find a new one. wink

EDIT: Yay, 977 posts. In a thousand posts I'll have 1977. That year is awesome.
Posted: Fri, 24th Dec 2010, 6:38pm

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pdrg

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FXhomer112771 wrote:

Thanks for the post. Hi guys, Im a newbie. Nice to join this forum.

__________________
url=http://moviesonlinefree.biz]watch movies online free[/url
Polite forum spam just to plant a link to a pirate site...

But very polite, though. The idea is to drive up the links from 'respected' communities which improves its SEO in theory.
Posted: Fri, 24th Dec 2010, 8:54pm

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Staff Only

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You continue to amaze with your intricate knowledge of everything pdrg. wink
Posted: Fri, 24th Dec 2010, 9:05pm

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Aculag

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pdrg is actually an underground super-computer, designed only to educate the world, one internet forum at a time.
Posted: Sat, 25th Dec 2010, 8:47am

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pdrg

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*beep* affermative.

I know a bunch of stuff about some things and naff all about others, of course...I am not the man you come to for DIY advice, for instance, noooo waaaay! And as for my dress sense apparently I have no concept of whay clashes and doesn't colour-wise. I even question the concept. And if you injure yourself, my medical/first aid abilities are quite negative - there is as much chance of me throwing up on your open wound as doing any good... Otherwise I would have trained as a paramedic and never bothered with IT or entertainment...

But I am way too squeamish for all that, and my mind can make order of IT/entertainment/production stuff, I have mental shelves for it (not DIY'd by me, naturally) where Art History has maybe a small pigeonhole with a few scraps of mouldy paper.

But yep, that's how forum/blog spam works - look at old blogs that allow comments and you will see random comments with a link maybe in the username or footer. Usually the spammers like old blog posts as they still get spidered by search engines, but not often read by people so the blogger doesn't see the spam. The internet, believe it or not, used to be a nice place without all the billboards, bullies, monopolists and exploitation. This is why I am keen on the open source movement, it's a hangover from the old web days, it is all about sharing. I am such a technohippie inside.
Posted: Sun, 26th Dec 2010, 8:15am

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Hybrid-Halo

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pdrg wrote:

FXhomer112771 wrote:

Thanks for the post. Hi guys, Im a newbie. Nice to join this forum.

__________________
url=http://moviesonlinefree.biz]watch movies online free[/url
Polite forum spam just to plant a link to a pirate site...

But very polite, though. The idea is to drive up the links from 'respected' communities which improves its SEO in theory.
Good spot, program. I derezzed him. End of Line.
Posted: Sun, 26th Dec 2010, 9:09am

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pdrg

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*beep* //whirr/click// you are welcome master

BTW does anyone like the film enough to spend their Christmas money on those 2 vinyl 8' posters for charity? As I mentioned before, beardy bloke on one, foxy filly on the other, haven't seen the film so don't know the character names, but I'd imagine the foxy filly to be the more desirable of the two, so will send them as a pair, not split! Any interest and I'll take photos for you smile Just to make it clear these are the official cinema vinyl banners intended for display in oversize lobby areas or outdoors (probably better indoors mind), and are a high quality official print, not some backstreet knock-off, and are absolutely not normal consumer merchandise, but the real deal industry stuff. Best offer by PM wins, charity is PDSA (who provide vet care for animals and do wonderful work)
Posted: Sun, 26th Dec 2010, 9:29am

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Atom

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/shameless-nonchalant-plug*

wink
Posted: Sun, 26th Dec 2010, 11:15am

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pdrg

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Utterly shameless! I've got something your average film fan just couldn't usually get for love nor money, and there are poorly kittens who could be helped by a charitable donation - makes sense that someone who enjoyed TRON might like these more than the poorly puppies do wink
Posted: Sun, 26th Dec 2010, 9:45pm

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Staff Only

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Yeah, but it seems a bit out of character for a super computer to call Jeff Bridges "beardy bloke". Surely pdrg knows who these people are?
Posted: Sun, 26th Dec 2010, 10:39pm

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Axeman

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Indeed, especially as the beardy bloke played by Jeff Bridges is the exact same character he played in the first TRON 28 years ago. If supercomputer pdrg doesn't know Kevin Flynn yet, he's woefully behind the times.

Finally made it to the cinema to watch this myself over the weekend; no nearby IMAX screens were open Chrismas dayu, so I went to Cinerama instead, where I was treated to one of the most enjoyable cinematic experiences I've had in recent memory. The brilliant visuals, the superb use of 3D, the 70-foot screen the excellent sound work, the fantastic score, and not least of all the overall TRON-ness of it all combined to create an experience I have very little to complain about. Sure I could nitpick about this or that, but were the flaws significant enough to noticeably detract from the overall awesomeness? Not for me they weren't.
Posted: Mon, 27th Dec 2010, 5:11am

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FreshMentos

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TRON didn't give the me the same 'wow' feeling I got after seeing films like Inception or Black Swan. But that doesn't mean it wasn't one of my favorite films this year. Best visual experience I've had in a long time, fantastic score, solid story, great directing, and good performances (minus the occasional one-liners). That's saying a lot considering it was produced by Disney. Unfortunately I feel that all the downfalls of the film could have been avoided if Disney was not backing the project...

Daft Punk is in my top 5 for house producers. They created a very catchy score which I enjoyed very much. But I can't help but think that an artist more like The Glitch Mob would have been a better fit for the score. Click the link. Trust me.
Posted: Mon, 27th Dec 2010, 2:04pm

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pdrg

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Woefully, woefully behind the times in certain areas, and the cast of Disney blockbusters is just one of them wink
Posted: Mon, 27th Dec 2010, 9:31pm

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Axeman

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Rating: +1

While it is true that the score was mixed at Zimmer's studio, the 100-piece orchestra that recorded the score in London was hand-picked by Daft Punk and Joseph Kosinski, their collaborator who handled all of the arrangements and orchestration, before Zimmer ever came near it.

I'm not saying Zimmer didn't make any adjustments in mixing, but I get the impression that some of you think he had far more input here than he actually did.
Posted: Tue, 28th Dec 2010, 9:55am

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Staff Only

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Axeman wrote:

I'm not saying Zimmer didn't make any adjustments in mixing, but I get the impression that some of you think he had far more input here than he actually did.
Mixing and conducting aside, I just want to know: Who composed Flynn Lives? Who composed the Tron: Legacy theme that you hear after the narration in The Grid? Zimmer or Daft Punk?
Posted: Tue, 28th Dec 2010, 6:05pm

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Axeman

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As far as the Theme, Daft Punk, absolutely. The entire score is structured around that theme, and that's not something you could alter in mixing. Versions of that theme appear in probably 3/4 of the cues in the soundtrack, and it was very definitely an integral part of the score during recording, well before mixing began in Zimmer's studio.
Posted: Thu, 30th Dec 2010, 12:06am

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Azulon'sAssassin

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Might go see it.m It looks kinda cool, but then again, it also looks like it's one of those: Ultra action to ultra lame movies. So, if anyone sees it, let us know how it is! smile
Posted: Thu, 30th Dec 2010, 12:25am

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Aculag

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Rating: +1

Azulon'sAssassin wrote:

So, if anyone sees it, let us know how it is! smile
Azulon'sAssassin: Posting from three pages in the past since 2010.
Posted: Thu, 30th Dec 2010, 9:32am

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Staff Only

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Aculag wrote:

Azulon'sAssassin wrote:

So, if anyone sees it, let us know how it is! smile
Azulon'sAssassin: Posting from three pages in the past since 2010.
Yeah.

AA; There are 4-5 reviews in this thread. What more do you want?
Posted: Fri, 31st Dec 2010, 2:57am

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Micah master studios

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I saw the movie yesterday! It was awsome. I just wish they would have made Tron (the character) a bigger part of the movie... sad biggrin
Posted: Thu, 6th Jan 2011, 7:52am

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Simon K Jones

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Rating: +1

TRON Legacy, then. Potential for brilliance, but awful story fumble right at the end. And it missed the entire point of the TRON universe sad

I was thrilled by 95% of the movie. All the way through I adored being in the world and being surrounded by such epic scale visual imagination. The ending, however, left me very disappointed.

LET THE SPOILERS COMMENCETH!





There are three primary problems with the film, at least two of which could have been fixed really easily.

1) Epic plot hole in that surely Sam could have exited via the port, deleted Clu, then simply reopened the port for Flynn. All the "I'm not leaving you!" stuff didn't make sense. Flynn's fate left the film on a downer: that's the wrong feeling for a TRON movie. The dark tone of the film was cool, but it needed an exhilarating, victorious ending. Did I miss something that explained away this gaping plot hole?

2) Tron should have returned at the climax, blue and with helmet off, to save the day. Given the build up through the flashbacks, and then having him turn blue underwater (which in the original was life-giving source code), and THE NAME OF THE FRICKING FILM, it was a crazy story oversight.

3) the whole point of the TRON franchise is that it is a fun, fantasy analogy of computer tech. The original was about I/O ports, programs, source code, firewalls, databases, networks...the new film doesn't seem to have realised that. There's nothing in it that makes use of the uniqueness of the TRON premise. Legacy still creates a fascinating, enthralling world, but it almost nothing to do with the key concepts of TRON.

In the age of the internet and a human society that is transforming drastically because of it, it's tragic that they did nothing with that aspect. Contrasting the incalculable levels of data that are whizzing around the world now compared to the relatively small network in the first film could have been fascinating.

Oh, also: part of the fun of the original was seeing the 'program' versions of the their creator 'users'. Hence Tron looked like Bruce Boxleitner, Clu looked like Bridges, Sark looked like David Warner. There was potential for that here, with the setup of Cillian Murphy's Dillinger, but by setting the entire film inside an isolated server in Flynn's office it cut off a lot of narrative possibilities (including the aforementioned internet storylines). Given the establishing of the new ENCOM OS at the start of the film, it would have been more interesting to have the film be set in THAT system, especially given the talk of it being the most secure ever, etc. Ah well.

The TRON 2.0 game is still the best sequel.

On the flipside, Bruce Boxleitner was in a major cinema movie! How spiffy was that?!
Posted: Thu, 6th Jan 2011, 9:04am

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Tommy Gundersen

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Agree Tarn! Spiffy! biggrin

*cough* And about damn time, even though it weren´t the biggest of roles.
Posted: Fri, 7th Jan 2011, 11:03am

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Simon K Jones

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Cool breakdown of lots of the VFX in the movie:

http://www.itsartmag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5190
Posted: Fri, 7th Jan 2011, 6:35pm

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FreshMentos

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Tarn why couldn't you have directed the movie?
Posted: Mon, 10th Jan 2011, 9:35am

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Simon K Jones

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FreshMentos wrote:

Tarn why couldn't you have directed the movie?
Hehe, I think if I'd attempted to direct something on the scale of TRON my mind would have dribbled out of my ear onto the floor in a little puddle.

I'd certainly have loved to write the movie, though. razz
Posted: Fri, 14th Jan 2011, 8:52pm

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Pooky

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In that optic, you should write short scripts for us to make when we're out of ideas!
Posted: Sat, 15th Jan 2011, 8:53am

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Aculag

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Tarn, I definitely agree with most your points there. Good post. The ending was rather strange, and could have been far more victorious in tone. I think modern cinema has been so saturated with the "epic" and "gritty" feel that people seem to have forgotten that a good climax doesn't have to mean "someone sacrifices himself in a sweeping show of emotion."

The ending left me thinking, "Was that it?" The defeat of Clu seemed almost TOO easy, considering Flynn's finishing move came out of nowhere, and he likely could have done it much earlier. No real reason why not, as far as I can see. The switcheroo with the disk seemed a little too convenient as well. And with Tron last seen sinking into the sea, it felt that Sam's escape through the portal would lead to another act, not a casual, happy, wrap-it-up ending. I really would have liked to see another 20-30 minutes to really bring out the "legacy" in the thing. Oh well, maybe in the sequel. wink

But despite its flaws, I still enjoyed every moment of it. Thought it was a beautifully crafted piece of film. Some iffy moments, sure, but a damn good movie. I thought CGI Jeff Bridges worked extremely well as Clu, but the scene with him in the beginning, and some of the expository sequences, he looked out of place. But only just barely. I can't even put my finger on what was wrong about it. It's like if you took a Madame Tussauds wax sculpture of Jeff Bridges and put some kind of wizard's curse on it, to make it move. Extremely realistic, but just somehow odd. But like I said, it really worked well in the digital world.

I watched the original just before going to see Legacy, and I loved all the little nods and references to the original. Especially the Bits in Flynn's "sanctuary".

Tarn wrote:

In the age of the internet and a human society that is transforming drastically because of it, it's tragic that they did nothing with that aspect. Contrasting the incalculable levels of data that are whizzing around the world now compared to the relatively small network in the first film could have been fascinating.
I actually think this was handled extremely well, though subtly. The original is sparse, and the programs act like programs for the most part. They actually have to work hard to accomplish their goals, there are pieces which are outdated and obsolete, but still function. The interfaces are rough, and users can spend hours completing a single task.

Legacy takes the 1982 version of that, and gives us the 2010 equivalent: A rich expanse of data of all kinds. Polished, fast, co-existing. Clu has made his perfect world by ridding it of the flaws that existed in the 1982 version. The programs in this version take that abundance of data for granted, and so do the users. I think this was demonstrated brilliantly in one of the early scenes at Encom, when Sam disrupts the board's plans, and they all fumble with their high tech desk, which they have clearly been taking for granted for quite some time. I think the contrast exists in the film, although I may just be making things up.

Anyway, really good movie, possibly a better 3D experience than Avatar, and it certainly tops the original in pretty much every conceivable way. Oh, and Olivia Wilde looks amazing. smile
Posted: Sat, 15th Jan 2011, 10:27pm

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Definitely agree with almost everything you said, Aculag.

Maybe it's the huge pulp of hype that was left partially unfullfilled in some people's eyes that is causing such negativity or detracting on this film. But I think we totally forgot just how good Tron Legacy was.

Outstanding production design, amazing technicals, interesting parables, and pitch-perfect casting. This movie did so many things insurmountably, geniusly right- it'd be silly to focus on the negative.

"Out there.....is our future! Out there is our DESTINY!"

I mean, I can't possibly be the only one getting chills by realizing I'm seeing Jeff Bridges de-aged yell pseudo-profound climatic lines to a beautiful digital world in a Disney movie- right?

This movie could've gone so horribly wrong in a thousand ways, but as I see it could only have done a few things to be better. And, in almost all cases, that is the other way around. So, in addition to everything else, I'm grateful of Tron Legacy for that.

Such a cool movie.
Posted: Sun, 16th Jan 2011, 12:02am

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ben3308

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The 'finishing move' by Flynn took me two viewings of the movie to have it contextually make sense. The whole conversation between Sam and Olivia Wilde (Quorra?) makes it vaguely known earlier on, but there isnt enough expository information to make it salient in the ending, I think.

S: Can he get rid of Clu?
Q: Yes, but it would require re-integration...
S: So why doesn't he just do that?
Q: because it would kill him as well.

The whole re-integration concept and the concept of Clu being an integral spawn of Flynn should've been stressed more, in my opinion, it would've had the end make more sense. The first time I saw the movie, the re-integration in the end just seemed like some deus-ex-machina to fit in with the 'ascending to heaven' setting; it didn't feel 'earned' by the story. The concept on second viewing, however, makes sense. It seems Flynn's biggest flaw is his lack of will to act, in fear for his life. He values staying alive over almost anything else, eventhe chance to return to the real world with his son. Having stayed in the grid for so long, Flynn sees life as most necessarily lived long, rather than comparably short and productively.

F: We wait here. We do nothing.
S: That's not much of anyway to live...
F: But it is a way.

In the end, then, Flynn re-realizes his intents in productively bettering the world, and, having used his life to do something meaningful (see Quorra integrate to the real world) he can re-integrate with Clu, sacrificing himself and eradicating the oppression seen in the grid.
Posted: Sun, 16th Jan 2011, 3:49am

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Well said Ben. I also think the intent was that the sacrifice was the most guaranteed way to make that happen, obviously, and it was just what the character would have done, like it or not.

I liked this film a lot. Use of 3D was awesome too. I think they should have used makeup on a real Bridges in the intro, it did look slightly out of place. That may have worked better, but it didn't really take away from it. I hope the soundtrack gets recognized, amazing stuff by Daft Punk.

Last edited Sun, 16th Jan 2011, 7:32am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 16th Jan 2011, 6:23am

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Back a few pages in this thread someone mentioned that they thought Hans Zimmer was involved in the making of the soundtrack. I just got the soundtrack and inside it says:

Daft Punk would like to thank:
...Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Harry Gregson-Williams and Christophe Beck for their generosity.
Posted: Mon, 17th Jan 2011, 9:15am

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Simon K Jones

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Ben - I like that analysis of the ending. It helps me, as I LOVED 90% of the movie and it was only in the last 10-15 mins that I had any problems, although they were big ones.

One thing I still don't get, though - earlier in the film I'm pretty sure they talked about how the portal can be opened from the outside, and that if Sam got out he could delete/defeat Clu from the outside. So why didn't Sam just leg it out the portal, delete Clu, re-open the portal, and then everyone's happy?

That apparent plot hole and the underusing of the Tron character at the end (which I still think may have been a last-minute budgetary thing) are the two main things stopping me from making Legacy a favourite of mine.
Posted: Mon, 17th Jan 2011, 2:40pm

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Tarn wrote:

One thing I still don't get, though - earlier in the film I'm pretty sure they talked about how the portal can be opened from the outside, and that if Sam got out he could delete/defeat Clu from the outside. So why didn't Sam just leg it out the portal, delete Clu, re-open the portal, and then everyone's happy?
That was the idea. If you watch it again you will see that it's only when Flynn sees that Clu is going to make it to the portal and get out with Sam and Quorra that he re-integrates him. Flynn was on the floor waiting for Clu to do whatever he wanted with him, and then Clu changed his mind about revenge on Flynn and jumped the bridge instead. Then Flynn acted.

Tarn wrote:

That apparent plot hole and the underusing of the Tron character at the end (which I still think may have been a last-minute budgetary thing)
Perhaps. The "I fight for the users!" was supposed to be Tron's Crowning Moment of Awesome. In their story Flynn was going to man up and defeat Clu. If Tron Showed up he would have had to fail so Flynn could do it. Might have been even worse for his character (as he would then have got his arse kicked by Sam and Quorra, then Clu twice).

To what you said earlier about making modern computing more important in the plot I couldn't disagree more. 50% of the people I saw it with (the adults) walked away saying: "It was good, but definitely a kids film.", "Yeah you have to play a lot of computer to get this properly right?". They thought Tron: Legacy was to tech-y!

I of course explained that it wasn't tech-y at all and that nothing in the film relates to (modern) computer-games at all. So I can only imagine how narrow the audience would be if they so much as breathed the word "Bit" or "Ethernet cable". That they said "Wi-fi" was bad enough. And I personally would much rather have the large budget that comes with pandering to a wide audience than making it more nerd-friendly.
Posted: Tue, 22nd Mar 2011, 12:29pm

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Finally saw Tron Legacy, now ready to both read this thread and explain some of my impression on parts of the movie other people either disliked or, I feel, misunderstood.

Short story - Loved it. Very close to everything I wanted with only one criticism that I'll re-address/re-mention later. Spoilers are ahead, please don't read this post if you are yet to see the movie.

Aculag wrote:

The ending left me thinking, "Was that it?" The defeat of Clu seemed almost TOO easy, considering Flynn's finishing move came out of nowhere, and he likely could have done it much earlier.
Flynn could have reintegrated with CLU at any time he wanted, the reason he didn't is because he knew it would destroy the grid and everything within it which, throughout the majority of the film would include both his Son, and the last remaining ISO who he been trying to protect.

He loves both the Grid and his Son, and he values the ISO for what her existence would mean to humanity as a whole - which he elaborates on quite early on. On some level, he also sympathizes with CLU and sees him as a young and naive version of himself. It's this reason that he tries to offer CLU peace and reintegrates only when CLU rejects the offer and makes a run for the portal.

The ending is, on some levels quite underplayed. But I don't think it's anti-climatic once you begin to think about the implications of the ISO existing in reality. It's not the case of another person leaving the grid - but an entirely new life form whose existence would spur a radical growth in medical (and other) technology, With Sam at the head of Encom in a position to capitalize in a way that takes advantage of as well as respects and protects her.

Tarn wrote:

One thing I still don't get, though - earlier in the film I'm pretty sure they talked about how the portal can be opened from the outside, and that if Sam got out he could delete/defeat Clu from the outside. So why didn't Sam just leg it out the portal, delete Clu, re-open the portal, and then everyone's happy?
That's exactly what Sam tries to do as soon as he figures that out and that's why he leaves Kevin and heads to Zeus. His plan is to get Zeus's help to reach the portal. Zeus's betrayal and Kevin's desire to protect Sam is what gets Kevin involved at all with his reluctance owed to the stakes of the game - if CLU gets out, the world ends.

So yeah, that plot hole doesn't exist. I do agree with the under use of Tron himself. I really felt like there needed to be a much heavier emphasis on both of Tron's sacrifice - maybe working it into the story that the programs themselves were changing as a result of the remaining ISO, meaning that CLU's perfect grid was by it's very nature, becoming imperfect. This would have also added more power to CLU's purging of them to begin with and explained how Tron is able to reprogram himself and betray CLU.

I'd love to rant on about this over a pint. I really would. smile
-Matt