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Part one of my first almost zero budget web series Jack Cage

Posted: Sun, 5th Dec 2010, 11:32pm

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Mad Mike

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I've submitted this to the cinema. But its been over 4 days and wanted to get some feedback. so got my hardhat on lol hope someone likes it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvBKKamm_R8
Posted: Mon, 6th Dec 2010, 12:00am

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Atom

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Rating: -6

Yikes. This is bad. Like, reaaaaalllllly bad.

And I know that sounds really harsh, and I am sorry. But I have to say it. Now other than this, I will say more later. But for now:

If you've purposefully made this into the newest 'unintentionally hilarious video' on FXHome, congrats. You've done a great job. biggrin
Posted: Mon, 6th Dec 2010, 12:06am

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Mad Mike

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No. was my first effort. but i figured the harsest critism would come from here. but hey ho
Posted: Mon, 6th Dec 2010, 2:07am

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Terminal Velocity

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Rating: -1

Oh my lord that was intense. Especially when the unconscious/dead person started twitching his face. I was all like, "IS HE GOING TO COME BACK AS A ZOMBIE?" Then someone said, "That's bad acting..." and I was all like "NO WAY HE'S COMING BACK AS A ZOMBIE".

And then he didn't.
Posted: Mon, 6th Dec 2010, 2:51am

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ben3308

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I thoroughly enjoyed it. I actually liked it so much, I watched parts of it through more than three times. Good work, it was entertaining and ambitious.
Posted: Mon, 6th Dec 2010, 7:01am

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rogolo

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Amusingly, Jack Cage was actually thrown around as a suggestion for the main character in our own recent short.

Glad to see that the name got its proper due in the end.
Posted: Mon, 6th Dec 2010, 6:16pm

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Mad Mike

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wow didn't expect such a negative response. cheers
Posted: Mon, 6th Dec 2010, 7:48pm

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Thrawn

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Mad Mike wrote:

wow didn't expect such a negative response. cheers
Sort of reminds me of Birdemic.

Sorry, some movies are bad. You asked for the feedback and we gave it to you. It just was bad. I understand it's your first attempt at making a film, but we aren't going to tell you that it's great when it's not. However, making films at all is a good start. You should check around the forums and find some helpful tips on making films, try again, and come back with your result. Sollthar's Filmmaking Guide is a great way to get started (can be found on the top of this forum). There's no where to go but up from here, my friend. Just keep sticking with it and you'll get better. We've all been where you are.
Posted: Mon, 6th Dec 2010, 8:11pm

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Mad Mike

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Rating: +1

yes I asked for feedback but all i got was we think its crap. there was nothing constructive to help someoneone new to filmmaking.
not everyone who buys from fxhome and tries there hand at film making has any experience. so yes it was my first attempt at for a first attempt I really dont think its a complete piece of rubbish.
Posted: Mon, 6th Dec 2010, 9:51pm

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Pooky

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Rating: +2

I'm with Mad Mike on this, I'm surprised at how lame all the comments here have been. This isn't supposed to be YouTube, people.
Posted: Mon, 6th Dec 2010, 10:01pm

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The Flying Fox

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Rating: +5

I would say that to get out there and make it is a great step. Seriously, by the looks of it you had to organise a lot of people, with costumes and locations and thats hard, kudos. It is very ambitous as ben said.


==========

The Film

It doesn't really hold my attention, which might be why people are just saying "its bad". Because they don't want to go through and analyse it because it is quite boring to watch, and doesn't offer much. But thats fair enough, because like you say, you want some constructive critique.

- Try and pace the film a bit better, you show us the action of murder to inform us murder is occuring. Great! This is good, but we've waited for at least a minute before this occurs. Granted the first shot of the caped person leaning over the body is supposed to create suspense, and you foreshadow the people who are going to be affected by introducing them in the next shot.

But by the time that the shots appear on screen completely comprimises the effects trying to build the tension. So good instinct as it were, if that first minute and a half had been executed better (no or short titles, tighter shot framing, faster edits and less running around) then it would have come off far better. The essence is there, which for a first time, is a good thing.

- The material is unoriginal, to some degree this is probably why its being bashed and although I think the material (the story, costumes, setting and feel) is poor, it is only your first attempt so I gather you might not be looking to get the story up to spec if only to gain yourself some experience and try out your technicals.

Random persons being killed doesn't invoke emotion or give a wow factor in this case. Because the effects are not mind blowing, and are not complimented by editing and shot choice. Well done on the effects however, because again, the essence is there. It sets up the story well, because you have a simple story, but the story is dragged out across fifteen minutes. Flesh out the characters and make them characters, masks and alike do give the film an amateur feel.

If you edited your story to be more coherent and interesting, as well as being told in a shorter time frame, with less effects, stuff that seems like it needs to be there but doesn't, then the film will be better off.(Where's FXhomer32915 when you need him? wink )

=======

I could write an essay on this film and how you can improve it, but as thrawn said, reading around filmaking guides and alike, alongside going out and making more films, will help you loads.

At the moment I think you want your film to have effects, story, mystery, action, length and a professional feel. Thats the feeling I get, this is fine, but it's too much to attack all at once. So your film has suffered from it.

Choose one or two things that you would like to focus on for your next episode/project. Then put all your attention on them, play to your strengths! From this film it is hard to gauge what your strengths are, I reckon because you don't know yourself yet, because hey! It's your first film.

Think about the essence of the film you want to make and go from there. Work on basic framing and editing, they really help, get other people on board with you if you can. Keep the film at a few minutes long, this restriction will help imrpove the quality of the film. Always aim for quality over quantity.

It's a start, now focus on specific areas, and go with what you want to do. You've shown very basic ideas about film, so move on from there.

I've barely started filmmaking and may not be qualified to make some of the above statements, but I hope this has helped.

Cheers

Tim
Posted: Mon, 6th Dec 2010, 10:13pm

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Mad Mike

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Thankyou Tim. That was the constructive kind of feedback I had hoped for.
Not everyone here has a film background or has been to film school.
For me to even get people to get involved, take time out or anything that i think many may now take for granted on here was never easy.
The view from onlookers 90% I have got was hahaha your making a film we hope it fails.
So when i ask a community that should be thriving on helping and getting the best from people I have to say I was disappointed by how non constructive the critism was.
while other poeple have actually enjoyed the film for what it was myu first attempt without over analysing it and comparing it to their own work.
and yes the acting was terrible but i bought visionlab to make a film and after 11 months I still think its an acheivement.
why?
Simple. I wouldn't of had a clue where to start before.
But
Posted: Mon, 6th Dec 2010, 10:45pm

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Arktic

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Rating: +4

Hey there,

I started to write out a post with some feedback for you - but it seems that the Flying Fox has beaten me to it.

So, here are the notes that I wrote, I was going to flesh this out into a full post, so it might be a bit disjointed or sketchy on details, but I hope that there's some useful points in here anyway smile

------------------------------------

Titles/credits - practically impossible to read, which doesn't really set a very good tone. Maybe go for something a little more 'clean' and readable?

The transition from titles to the first scene is pretty abrupt. Even if you're going for a straight cut on the vision, then have a better crossfade or similar on the audio, so that it's not such a jump. Preferably, have the title music come to a close and start/fade up your next bed.

Nice idea with the breath, it didn't quite work because of the masking. I would leave out effects that you can't do convincingly - especially when it's the very first shot. To do this effect better, use real stock footage of steam or light smoke, and motion track your actor's face - either with some motion tracking software, or using Spydurhank's manual method. If motion tracking is our of your reach at the moment, then think about how you can plan these effects better in pre-production so that they look better in post-production - for example, have the actor remain relatively still rather than shaking his head around when you know you need to motion track in an effect. Also, the effect also vanishes before the first shot cuts, maybe four or five frames early.

The start of the next shot, the actors are stood still waiting for their cue for nearly three seconds - this is pretty bad! Have your actors start walking BEFORE you plan to cut to the shot. If they start from a dead stop, they'll always look like they're starting from a dead stop. If they're supposed to be walking along, have them walking for a few seconds before they start delivering their lines.

On the subject of dialogue, it's really hard to make out what any of your characters are saying. You need to think about how you can record audio. Radio mics? A boom mic? ADR in post? All of these options are available, some cheaper than others, some better than others. A quick search of the forums or some googling will bring up some information about these.

Also, PLEASE INVEST IN A TRIPOD! I can't stress how much more professional your film will look if the shots are steady. I think I can also hear some noise from the camera being moved around - this would be greatly reduced by using a tripod. If you already have a tripod, then use it for every shot unless there's a VERY specific reason that the camera needs to move around.

There's a jump-cut at around 1:02; this is where you cut from one shot to another that's very similar in terms of framing and composition. It makes it feel like an edit, which a good cut shouldn't. There are a couple of these through the film (another notable example is the cut in the kitchen scene between the lines "surely you can call me Sam" and "how about I call you..." - you should really cut to a close up to cover this, rather than just having the wide shot 'jump' through time).

You need to generally tighten your edit up so that there's none of this, and no errant frames that aren't supposed to be there. Throughout, there's a lot of double-actions and odd cuts where things vanish or appear on screen when I'm not sure that they should. Again, just being very precise with your editing will help solve a lot of these problems.

The grading is a little bit all over the shop - some shots have what look like preset grades applied without much thought about what meaning that colour correction conveys - for example, in the kitchen, it looks REALLY HOT, and I'm not sure that's what you were going for. The skintones have been pushed into a very saturated red colour, and I don't think it's working. Remember, don't just grade to make things look cool or different - think about what emotion you're trying to convey, and use grading to enhance those emotions.

But all that said, it's still an achievement to go out and actually get something made. Also, I think if many people making negative comments compare their very first projects to yours - I think there won't be a lot of difference.... People should remember what it's like when you're just starting out and someone trashes your efforts.

------------------------------------

So there you go, a few pointers there, I hope smile

I'd recommend that you do as TFF suggests, and focus on more basic things in the immediate future - Sollthar's film-making guide is a good start, and there are plenty of books and online resources with lots of info which I think will help you.

Anyway, at the end of the day, if you and your mates are enjoying yourselves when you make these films - that's really all that matters smile

Hope that helps!

Cheers,
Arktic.
Posted: Mon, 6th Dec 2010, 10:57pm

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Pooky

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Yeah, seriously, my first movie has:

-A fight between me and my little brother with lightsabers in my basement set to Duel of the Fates.

-My other little brother showing me weapons, in the woods for some reason, set to stock classical music.

-Me fighting clones of myself with kung-fu and a plastic sword, complete with terrible masking, set to a techno remix of In The Hall of the Mountain King.

-My house exploding as me and my brother jump away from it, complete with the worst masking of all time (I'm quite serious, I used the geometric shapes from AlamDV2... poorly), and it cuts away after the explosion and shows that my house is still there.



All of this, of course, wrapped up in super cheesy dialogue, terrible editing, effects, and acting. But hell, it was fun.

So don't beat yourself up about your first movie not being very good, it's quite normal smile
Posted: Mon, 6th Dec 2010, 11:00pm

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Mad Mike

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Right ive just copied everything that was said from the last 2 replies so i can put it in a document and read through it and maybe edit part one better.
as for things like the cut with the two actors standing still ( my bad I actually thought i'd cut that)
the grading I'm still learning.
But wanted to keep things consisted and did try and couldnt get a right feel for the kitchen scene without it looking like it was shot on a handicam.
a lot of stuff was shot over a long period of time and at the start I didnt always use the tripod i was learning as were the people helping me as we went as it were.
The stock footage comment. I've rarely found presets look all that realistic.As Pooky said its for YOUTUBE. a video by a consumer for fun and to learn.Thankyou again to those that offered constructive critism.
I'm sure not everyones first attempts were works of sheer genius.
Posted: Tue, 7th Dec 2010, 2:11am

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Jrad

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Rating: +1

A lot of good criticism has already been said, so I'll just say this:

The hardest part is over. You made your first film. Did you have fun? Did you learn a lot while filming? Just keep practicing, and your craft will get better.

Give yourself "assignments." Work on lighting one weekend. Shot composition another.

Research. Research. Research. Look for info online, at your library, at your local book store.

You've already done more than most people, but you're no Steven Spielberg yet wink
Posted: Thu, 9th Dec 2010, 12:49am

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jfreedan

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Mad Mike wrote:

Thankyou Tim. That was the constructive kind of feedback I had hoped for.
Not everyone here has a film background or has been to film school.
For me to even get people to get involved, take time out or anything that i think many may now take for granted on here was never easy.
The view from onlookers 90% I have got was hahaha your making a film we hope it fails.
So when i ask a community that should be thriving on helping and getting the best from people I have to say I was disappointed by how non constructive the critism was.
while other poeple have actually enjoyed the film for what it was myu first attempt without over analysing it and comparing it to their own work.
and yes the acting was terrible but i bought visionlab to make a film and after 11 months I still think its an acheivement.
why?
Simple. I wouldn't of had a clue where to start before.
But
Unfortunately there are people on this forum who are rather full of themselves and don't understand what constructive criticism is and that "it's bad" is too vague. Which is funny because, while I love it for what it does, Fxhome software is not the most high-end stuff out there and most people posting on these forums are NOT going to be professional film-makers, but consumers trying to learn the ropes.

As a first film, I've seen worst. But I don't think anyone makes a good first film. I think you have potential (given how many actors you had, you definitely have the networking ability required of a director) and if you keep making more films you will work the kinks out.

I'll try to give you some feedback that might be helpful.

1. Opening Credits. For a web video, you don't need this. Opening credits are a requirement of The Director's Guild of America. So if your film is non-union you don't need opening credits; I would put your credits at the end of the film. That's what I do. You want to grab the audience's attention with the first thing they see.

I think you understand that the first several minutes are important because you made effort to catch the eye, but unfortunately the credits look too cheesy. They are also hard to read anyway, because they are transparent with uninteresting shots laid beneath the text. I would drop this sequence and just dive right into your story.

2. I would be interested to know what codec and file format you uploaded the video in, what the fps was and what software you used to edit the film. I am going to guess that the pixelation of your video is due to uploading the video under settings Youtube doesn't like when it does its compression.

3. Many of the special effect shots are cheesy and by cheesy I mean they don't look "real". While it is a fictional film, you still have to encourage suspension of disbelief in the audience; they know it is fake but their eyes need to tell them it is believable. When you have poor masking on shots like this one ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvBKKamm_R8#t=43s ), it breaks the suspension of disbelief.

Ask yourself this; "Does this look real?" If the answer is no, the audience will also say no.

I've made a lot of cheesy effects in my videos, so it's not that I'm saying I'm better at it. I'm just trying to explain the philosophy of what cheesy is and why it is bad when you want to do anything dramatic (versus funny. Most of my cheese is intentional because I do comedy)

4. I think, overall, the camera operator did a fairly decent job. Using a tripod more often would have helped or not using shots where the cameraman bumped into the camera like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvBKKamm_R8#t=1m46s . Make sure your camera-man knows when he screws up that he needs to tell people and re-do the shot.

5. I would also get a separate microphone to record audio. In the shot I just linked to, the camera-man screwing with the camera was picked up on the mike and again broke suspension of disbelief.

6. The music didn't feel genre appropriate. It felt more Arabian Nights than slasher flic. Go for something that builds tension not mystery.

7. Slasher films are a subgenre of horror. People watch them pretty much just to see interesting ways for people to die. If you can't afford to make a gory and interesting death no one has seen before, I wouldn't make a slasher. Slashers may seem easy to make but a good slasher is not easy to make, which is why there are so few of them. I would suggest making films in another genre you are interested in, then porting over what you learned making those other genres when making the next slasher.

As I said before, I think you have potential. What you need is more experience and a little more knowledge. I would pickup a copy of Directing: Film Techniques and Aethetics by Michael Rabiger.
Posted: Thu, 9th Dec 2010, 3:07am

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Hybrid-Halo

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jfreedan wrote:

most people posting on these forums are NOT going to be professional film-makers, but consumers trying to learn the ropes.
Most people, yes. But not me. I work in the industry.

Good post Jfreedan, +1.

Madmike - If making films with Visual Effects is something you're interested in improving, specifically low budget action movies, I would add Stu Maschwitz 'DV Rebels Guide' to the list of books that are handy to have around.

There are things that Jack Cage attempts that a lot of other amateur film makers forget first time round. So it's a start, now it's time to begin perfecting a craft and learning the techniques of telling a story as well as the technical knowledge and technique to do it successfully.

A really quick couple of tips:

- Skip out the titles, or at the very very least make a pronounced effort to make sure they are easily readable. Because that's the whole point of titles.

- With shots that have actors walking, call action and get them to walk a few steps before they begin their lines or the point at which you intend to cut in. That way, you won't have sections in your movie which look like actors have stood around and waiting for 'action' before they started to walk.

Good luck with your next film!
Matt
Posted: Thu, 9th Dec 2010, 4:41am

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jfreedan

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:

jfreedan wrote:

most people posting on these forums are NOT going to be professional film-makers, but consumers trying to learn the ropes.
Most people, yes. But not me. I work in the industry.
I pointed it out because I don't think most people purchasing Fxhome software are industry pros. Some of them may, over time, become pros and continue to use the software (personally I like the library myself) but this forum isn't dedicated to something like Nuke. He asked for feedback and instead all he got were people discouraging him from making films.
Posted: Thu, 9th Dec 2010, 6:30pm

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Mad Mike

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Ok well I always listen and as i'm a newbie all constructive comments help both negative and positive.
The film of which others parts where filmed and yes a Tripod was eventually used for a lot of shots but not as the start as I was just learning.
A lot of bad effects (cheesy yes and I understand that point ;o)
I was working with what I had and there a lot of effects as I was trying a lot of things many may not have worked but its all a learning experience.
I can't thank those enough that have not only given constructive critism of part one but from what ive read analysed the film and been very helpful which is what I think the forums should be about helping people.
I was initially shocked by the first few comments as without comments to back the "oh god its so bad" type of feedback it doesnt help me at all.

I have very little free time and no film knowledge and it took a lot of work and a lot of help.
the
Posted: Thu, 9th Dec 2010, 10:40pm

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Mad Mike

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to Jfreedan
My footage is sony avchd coverting to quicktime animation files at best quality imported into visionlab then back to vegas platinum 10 whic i use to edit.
then i converted the files into main concept mp4 files and link several files together then vegas converted to youtube format automatically there were to settings one high one low i went with the most compression maybe i should have went with the higher and when i edit i will.
what i really needed was an intermediate format that wasnt mp4 just so vegas cud hanlde the 15 minutes that was there.
I will continue the jack cage story in smaller instalments as for my friends at least they really want to see the next part and for me its a learning curve.
I havent had time to go through everyones points but i plan to sit down and do so.
a big bug bear for me was the effects do look cheesy or cartoony.
and a blue suit wud have worked better in a field than a green
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 2:08am

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jfreedan

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Rating: +1

Converting AVCHD to Apple Animation and then to mp4 is probably where you went wrong.

AVCHD isn't really an editing codec so it needs to be converted to something else like Apple Pro Res 422. If I remember correctly Fxhome software supports Pro Res but I'm unsure if Vegas supports Pro Res. I have a copy of it that came with my NEX-VG10 but I've yet to install it.

Apple Animation is meant for exactly what it says; animation. The selling point of the codec is it retains an alpha channel but it's not meant for HD, it's meant for standard video (SD) because it's 8-bit. And it's really meant for animation where you need an alpha channel retained.

Use Apple Pro Res 422 which is meant for HD and also retains alpha channels. Pro Res 422 is meant to be edited with and outputting composite shots.

As for outputting to Youtube: don't ever convert to mp4 unless you meant the video to play on an mp4 device. Although Youtube allows you to download videos as mp4, it's a horrible format to upload to Youtube with; use H.264 1280x720 progressive and when you compress make sure you de-interlace the footage.

It's very unlikely that Vegas can't handle AVCHD because AVCHD is Sony's propriety format; most likely the problem is your computer doesn't have enough processing power. I would suggest upgrading your hardware. HD video post-production requires a work-station computer not one meant for the average consumer. Even my Mac Pro takes a long time to render the files.

*If you get into using Avid Media Composer, instead of using Pro Res use DNxHD
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 3:34am

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Azulon'sAssassin

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Ok, plz take this as constructive critisizm.....



1:The girl couldn't act at all. I noticed that not only did her "crying" sound like laughing, she was SMILING as she ran out of the field...AND GOT KILLED!!!!!


2:What was with the white stuff? (This may not be all so bad, I just have no idea what it is...)


3: That wierd little squirt of blood wouldn't come out from that...if he was eating him (I couldn't tell)

4:Were those Death Eaters all walking through the woods?


5:Was the guy that was summoned mad of fire or invisible?








6: THE SUMMONED GUY SCRATCHED HIS NOSE???!!!!


7: It was highly un-understandable!
8:Not sure if it was your video quality, or your newness (is that even a word?) but the effects weren't that great




Over all, not a good movie, but trust me, I've seen worse.(Like some of tose movies on Sy-FY that my Dad (I'm 12) watches? OMG!! He only watches them because they have pretty good storylines though...
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 3:34am

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Azulon'sAssassin

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Ok, plz take this as constructive critisizm.....



1:The girl couldn't act at all. I noticed that not only did her "crying" sound like laughing, she was SMILING as she ran out of the field...AND GOT KILLED!!!!!


2:What was with the white stuff? (This may not be all so bad, I just have no idea what it is...)


3: That wierd little squirt of blood wouldn't come out from that...if he was eating him (I couldn't tell)

4:Were those Death Eaters all walking through the woods?


5:Was the guy that was summoned mad of fire or invisible?








6: THE SUMMONED GUY SCRATCHED HIS NOSE???!!!!


7: It was highly un-understandable!
8:Not sure if it was your video quality, or your newness (is that even a word?) but the effects weren't that great




Over all, not a good movie, but trust me, I've seen worse.(Like some of tose movies on Sy-FY that my Dad (I'm 12) watches? OMG!! He only watches them because they have pretty good storylines though...
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 3:37am

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AwesomeFist

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Azulon'sAssassin wrote:

Ok, plz take this as constructive critisizm.....



1:The girl couldn't act at all. I noticed that not only did her "crying" sound like laughing, she was SMILING as she ran out of the field...AND GOT KILLED!!!!!


2:What was with the white stuff? (This may not be all so bad, I just have no idea what it is...)


3: That wierd little squirt of blood wouldn't come out from that...if he was eating him (I couldn't tell)

4:Were those Death Eaters all walking through the woods?


5:Was the guy that was summoned mad of fire or invisible?








6: THE SUMMONED GUY SCRATCHED HIS NOSE???!!!!


7: It was highly un-understandable!
8:Not sure if it was your video quality, or your newness (is that even a word?) but the effects weren't that great




Over all, not a good movie, but trust me, I've seen worse.(Like some of tose movies on Sy-FY that my Dad (I'm 12) watches? OMG!! He only watches them because they have pretty good storylines though...
If you say plz because it's shorter then please, I'll say no because it's shorter then yes, really just no.
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 3:56am

Post 26 of 69

Azulon'sAssassin

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Rating: -1

AwesomeFist wrote:

Azulon'sAssassin wrote:

Ok, plz take this as constructive critisizm.....



1:The girl couldn't act at all. I noticed that not only did her "crying" sound like laughing, she was SMILING as she ran out of the field...AND GOT KILLED!!!!!


2:What was with the white stuff? (This may not be all so bad, I just have no idea what it is...)


3: That wierd little squirt of blood wouldn't come out from that...if he was eating him (I couldn't tell)

4:Were those Death Eaters all walking through the woods?


5:Was the guy that was summoned mad of fire or invisible?








6: THE SUMMONED GUY SCRATCHED HIS NOSE???!!!!


7: It was highly un-understandable!
8:Not sure if it was your video quality, or your newness (is that even a word?) but the effects weren't that great




Over all, not a good movie, but trust me, I've seen worse.(Like some of tose movies on Sy-FY that my Dad (I'm 12) watches? OMG!! He only watches them because they have pretty good storylines though...
If you say plz because it's shorter then please, I'll say no because it's shorter then yes, really just no.
Are you just kidding, because if not, I really did mean that to be constructive. I mean, it wasn't all bad. Some of those guys really did act EVIL!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 4:07am

Post 27 of 69

AwesomeFist

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Ok it's not even constructive criticism, in constructive criticism you tell them what they did wrong and give them tips and advice on what they could do better, that way they can improve off the advice you gave them. So now you know the difference between constructive criticism and just pointing random things out, because simply that's all you were really doing.
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 4:26am

Post 28 of 69

Biblmac

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Rating: -1

AwesomeFirst... You never cease to amaze me. Azulon'sAssassin doesn't have to say please. You didn't have to be rude. His post was more criticism than constructive but there were plenty of less constructive posts on this topic you could have picked at. At least he was trying to criticize nicely. I seem to remember someone with the name AwesomeFist from a year or so ago who had horrible grammar and spelling, so I don't know why you are criticizing someone else.

Now lets all pull our big boy pants up and quit bickering at each other and try to help out Mad Mike.
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 6:29pm

Post 29 of 69

Hybrid-Halo

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jfreedan wrote:

Hybrid-Halo wrote:

jfreedan wrote:

most people posting on these forums are NOT going to be professional film-makers, but consumers trying to learn the ropes.
Most people, yes. But not me. I work in the industry.
I pointed it out because I don't think most people purchasing Fxhome software are industry pros. Some of them may, over time, become pros and continue to use the software (personally I like the library myself) but this forum isn't dedicated to something like Nuke. He asked for feedback and instead all he got were people discouraging him from making films.
It's cool, I was just pointing out that I work <i>in the industry</i> because it's true! (It was a joke, a self-aggrandizing joke).

Though just a note - No matter what the level of professionalism, or the price of the tools; There's still no excuse to be a dick. It's only made less acceptable by the fact that FXhome caters largely to amateur and new film makers.

It's up to all of us to make sure that the FXhome community is one that we all want to be a part of, I think what happened here is that some people forgot!

Matt
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 8:31pm

Post 30 of 69

Mad Mike

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Guys your help and support has been amazing. I admit the initial reaction was a shock not because my film was described as bad or worst ever. that i didnt mind the original posts just left me with a completley different opinion of fxhome to the opinion i had formed and one of the things ive grown to love about fxhome that being the support of the community.
My initially reaction was to think what would an outsider or firstimer to these forums think. If I had joined at the start of my post having not been the poster myself I wouldn't have thought about film making and given fxhome a wide birth. I'm glad that in the end the community showed the support ive come to expect.
Yes my first movie or part of was bad.
"no they were not death eaters they Acolytes of the Apocalpyse Corporation who work for the old man"
Hard to fit in the entire universe of the Jack Cage novel and short stories in a short film.
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 9:03pm

Post 31 of 69

ben3308

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Rating: +1

Here's the deal, though, on a larger thought regarding FXHome software and the demographic here.

If we didn't have this harsh criticism from time to time, nobody would ever really get better, and FXHome would indeed keep this 'amateur-only' demographic which, frankly, would suck to have.

It's this community and the variety of criticism, frankness, and honest constructive commentary that challenges people here to get better. In my opinion, if you make a film that doesn't speak for itself as being any good, then speak for it. Defend your work, validate your reasoning, and then people will be able to be more honest with you - if you didn't have the right tripod or something the first time, and you let people know of that, then they're more apt to tailor their criticisms to help what's actually wrong.

Having received harsh criticism here before (I got a number of 0/5 and 1/5's for this in 2007, and could hardly believe it) I know it's sometimes unreasonable or hurtful and doesn't make sense. The key here is communication. Communicate clearly what you're getting from people's comments, and perhaps even more as to what went wrong (or right) in making the movie; so that people can help you out. It works like that - talk, and people listen. And then they're apt to speak to you, so long as you, too, listen.
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 9:11pm

Post 32 of 69

Mad Mike

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Ben your critism wasnt harsh it was just a sarcastic comment with no constructiveness whatsoever.
Everyone starts as a beginner even you.
at the start of my thread i even made a joke about wearing my hard hat knowing id get some negative comments. Ive been a member of these boards for some time know and come to admire people like yourself and atom so when all you do is make a purely negative comment its serves no purpose for me or the community. If you read this thread you will see how helpful people have been, see me admitting to my failures welcoming the feedback. Hell I even would admit my performance was worse than any seen or to come as was my friends. we are not actors we are beginners finding our feet and learning the gungho practical way of just going out there and having a go. One of my posts even mentioned the tripod use. hell in one early shoot i filmed by hand with the tripod in view as i chose to use it. Like i said Im learning and at one stage everyone been here.
and how many people make a film first time based on their own novel
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 9:18pm

Post 33 of 69

Biblmac

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ben3308 wrote:

Communicate clearly what you're getting from people's comments, and perhaps even more as to what went wrong (or right) in making the movie; so that people can help you out. It works like that - talk, and people listen. And then they're apt to speak to you, so long as you, too, listen.
Judging from this post I would say that Ben is still a bit hard against newcomers because of the way acproductions handled their criticism, or maybe more like the way acproductions ignored the criticism that people gave them. Let's hope he softens up a bit wink.
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 10:06pm

Post 34 of 69

Azulon'sAssassin

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OK, now that I understnad a bit better, it wasn't so bad. Still, what was the white stuff? And as for YOU AwesomeFist...I WASN"T DONE WITH THAT FRIGGIN COMMENT!!!!!! I HAD TO GO TO BED(being 12) AND WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE THAN HAPPY TO FINISH IT THE NEXT DAY!!!!!!!!! Now, to finish my comment, before I was so rudely interupted, the idea was good and the effects(I'm geussing it was just your being new at this) were understandable (Like what they were, besides that white goo...) And the fact that you got out there, and did your movie was good. I'm pretty good at doing effect, but I can never get my friends together, because my mom has depression and pretty much can't deal with it all at once... (However, I am in the middle of writing a Harry Potter fan-film) If you could give me the basic story line, I can understand better, and give some better advice. Over all, good job, bt not the best movie...
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 10:15pm

Post 35 of 69

Mad Mike

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Azulon. my sons almost 11 lol he dont go to bed when he is here till he wants lucky guy.
yes im new.
the white stuff was originally green but my hard drive died and all the original edited footage was lost. and i had to edit from scratch.
I guess the biggest problems with my first attempt have been pointed out and i agree with them.
love the way someone was helpful enough to point out the exact second of some major gaffs (sorry too many helpful peeps to name names but the culprit got a +1) as did all those that pretty much analysed it.
the name jack cage was created with the help lol of a hollywood stars cousin and lots of triple jd and a love for nick cage over acting. a book id written years ago and several stories that followed.
in short its a big universe very convulated to explain in a short film and a problem i guess as friends have pointed out they enjoyed it but without reading a 300 page novel lol hard to explain
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 10:30pm

Post 36 of 69

Mad Mike

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a lot of things are great in your head. Having my son lie down in the grass covering in blood is great when he says he will do it. then having him too scared to be covered in fake blood and unable to know how to do a shot that would have tracking motion to keep a bloot splatter effect on him when pestilence is/was going to be eating him/ devouring him.
Having Jack also be set on fire by the old man at the end of the film is hard when someone forgets the the petrol can and you didnt bring the tripod. Sometimes you can't reshoot as you make do like "ed wood" with what you have.
First film guys. excellent response. didnt say it had to be positive never expected it to be hence the hard hat comment.
I personally think the a certain scene it part two looks better. tripoid was used yes but masking problem still.
on a side note casual viewers dont know about cloning, or masking they just watch and enjoy.
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 10:34pm

Post 37 of 69

Pooky

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For what it's worth:

I think AwesomeFist was justified in nitpicking Azulon's frantic writing. He's merely trying to help Azulon understand that writing like a spazzed-out 10 year-old will make everyone hate you, because that's what happened to him back in the day.

So, yeah, Azulon: cut that out. Write like an adult, or you won't be treated as one. Then again you're 12, so I guess writing like that makes sense if you want to be the crazy kid flailing his arms around the room while the rest of us try to ignore it. Just be prepared to be ashamed of it later.


Mad Mike - Optimism is good. I'm certainly looking forward to seeing your skills develop over time, and making more of these Jack Cage things is a good way to get there as far as I'm concerned! Really, though, I don't think you don't have to bother with telling us why the gaffes and such happened and why the movie wasn't a masterpiece - it's happened to EVERYONE when they started out. As I said, your first attempt was better than mine. Just focus on spending more time in the planning stages next time, that usually solves it.

Also, from your writing style I initially thought you were under my age, which you are clearly not if your son is 11, so just a friendly tip that using proper capitalization and punctuation and paragraphing might help with the ease of reading your posts. wink
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 10:42pm

Post 38 of 69

Mad Mike

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Pooky after the feedback anyone who gave good feedback or support i watched there movies. loved the way u kicked off the tree.
brief outline
once upon a time a family mom dad two boys one twelve one eight have a picnic. youngest boy abducted.
switch to the twelve year old being in his twenties and a common british pub dj. Has too many drinks one night thinks he has lost a day. In fact he is abducted by the Apocalypse Corporation. Rescued by his brother "who is now Death the forth horseman of the Apocalypse" though he doesnt remember this, before he is turned into a darkling. after that jack finds out he cant die. half darkling.
I could go on but suffice to say first attempt or not there will be more jack cage. most likely still viewed as rubbish at fx home and enjoted by those that dont understand how fx are done. Eventually I'll get better but without trying so many effects I wont learn.
Not ranting at you by the way also loved seeing you in the fxhome christmas messages.
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 10:57pm

Post 39 of 69

ben3308

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Rating: +3

The absolute best advice I can give, then, is that less is more.

And the reason I'm so cynical about early, bad user movies is that I understood easily this concept when I was about 13 or 14; and so many people don't come to this realization until waaaaay later.

Don't load up your film with effects if you can't do them well. Attempt a lot, but attempt the things you are better at, the things you can control, and the things you can hone and make better throughout your efforts. I never, ever made an effects-crazy movie because I knew that if I focused my time on a few, smaller effects (grading, optical stuff, some particles here and there) I would be making higher-quality results that were 100% more watchable and that people would come to appreciate.

So yeah, the criticism is bad, and not very constructive. But it's hard to construct something when the cornerstone of the film is bad. I can't tell you what to improve, really, because there's this fundamental aspect that I think is missing. Less is more. Simplify your ideas, your concepts, your ambitions for special effects. Simplifying doesn't mean diminishing, just making more concise. So often do people say, "without so many effects I won't learn". I view this as totally opposite. With only a horrendous barrage of effects in mind, you're crippling your ability to actually focus on a few simple things that actually matter. Good cinematography, appropriate editing conventions, and well-executed effects are not achieved through quantitative breadth, but honed, persistent depth of execution. Doing many things poorly does not help. Doing a few things consistently, however, does.

People always asked me when I was about 16, why I never attempted to get into any genre project or attempt some feature film - it was always because I knew that if I did it, it'd be a half-measure, and it wouldn't be as high quality as my shorter stuff. Less is more. I'll say it again, less is more. I'm glad there are people out there that think they can make the next homemade superhero or army or manga-based film. That's great.

But if people, especially younger people, on here thought in more practical terms; they could produce higher quality results. When someone says, 'I am in the middle of writing a Harry Potter fanfilm' I wonder if these kids know what they're saying, or getting into. Often we need to "check ourselves before we wreck ourselves." My own attempt at a genre/fan movie when I was 14-15 was to make a Splinter Cell movie, and even then I had tempered my ideas with the practical approach that I likely wouldn't be able to do big military scenes, or fancy 3D buildings, or anything like that. We kept it simple - muzzle flashes, optical green lights, and a small cast confined to a very personal story. And it worked well, and the parts of the movie that we did end up completing still hold up half a decade later against the stuff I've made recently.

I'm not saying that the FXHome software doesn't allow you to do insanely cool things. It does. But when your ambitions outweigh your talent - or worse, your effort - the results are almost never ideal. And while that's fine for most, it's not good for me. These huge effects successes you see on this site are accomplished by people who know what they're getting into, who understand the effort required and have the talent to execute. Those who fail to make this realization often fail in their work as well. So when I see someone adding all this stuff into a film without having spent time shooting or lighting or editing properly, I have a problem with that, and it's not one that's easy to address. The reason the best filmmakers on this site have done so well is largely because they took criticism, yes, but also because they very seldom bit off more than they could chew. Always enough to keep ambitions high, but never too much to purport total failure. And that's something I think many, if not most, of the people on here could learn from.

Less is more.

Yes, I know I'm being cynical, and a little cold and condemning of fan-created stuff. But I don't think I'm wrong.
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 11:12pm

Post 40 of 69

Mad Mike

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care to share a link to this movie. Id like to see it.
also the effects in the movie no matter how bad were necessary as it and the following chapters are based on the short story.
yes more is less I agree and the next installments will be shorter. but as ive already filmed so much over a long period of time i plan to finish it and maybe go back and fix things.
I used what I had at hand. I'm aware of my short comings and if i wasnt they have pointed them out.Support is hard to find. If I or you were Spielberg people would flock to be involved.I'm very aware of my abilities, but this is my classroom and as experienced film makers i look to yourself and other fxhomers to help not hinder.
Atoms original post was thats all he had to say at the moment but never pitched in to offer anything constructive.I'm a big believer in trial and error and i learn by my mistakes.My biggest gripe was with people like yourself and atom who are damned good at what you do and as you admit have suffered unfair critism for your own early work that you would do so to someone so new to film making.
Last point this thread has offered some amazing advice.
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 11:34pm

Post 41 of 69

ben3308

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Mad Mike wrote:

also the effects in the movie no matter how bad were necessary as it and the following chapters are based on the short story.
This is what I'm talking about, though, this is the problem. If it's a short story with a ton of 'required' effects that you are only haphazardly good at, why make this movie?

Why not do something a little closer to your realm of abilities and talents, and put more effort into that. I find that what I'm good at only gets better if I push myself to do more within the things I can already do. I don't go out there, for instance, and shoot music videos on a greenscreen because I know that I just flat-out can't do that. But I will go to a unique location to shoot a music video, even if I'm unsure of it, because that's something I can control.

You're making a movie based on a short story. That's fine. But, I dunno, I just never liked working on something that I couldn't - at least a little bit - expect to succeed in. And if it's this epic that requires expensive costuming, all these locations, and a whole slew of effects; then know what you're getting into and think it through. Why sell your time and yourself short by attempting something that's not going to work well?

I am not saying don't take risks, or kill all ambitions. I just think that people don't think through what they're doing, and they make these results (much like the video in this thread) that are just bad. And that's not defensible. It's like, make the right decision from the get-go, and you have less room for failure.

Also, I have bits and pieces of the Splinter Cell thing online, but can link you to the opening scene and the trailer. Here's the thread from when I was fifteen on here, when we were wrapping up shooting the film.
http://fxhome.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21133&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Here's the intro:
http://adamsbrosfilms.com/videofiles/novscintro.mov

Here's the trailer:
http://www.myspace.com/video/chase3308/splintercell-trailer-the-gorsky-assignment/1933058

Granted, we had a pretty talented group of people at work. But it didn't take money, it didn't take a bunch of effects, it just took effort and consideration for what would look good and what wouldn't. And, watching it now, the intro is still one of the best things I've ever shot/directed. biggrin
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 11:41pm

Post 42 of 69

Pooky

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Mad Mike wrote:

Pooky after the feedback anyone who gave good feedback or support i watched there movies. loved the way u kicked off the tree.
Yeah that old thing (what is it, 7 years old now? I need to get back to moviemaking!) was actually my... fifth movie, I think. The first and second one were CRAP. The third wasn't bad, and the fourth was this. And then I made a bunch of rushed, unplanned, unlit, poorly shot, terribly acted, crappy movies for school. Except maybe that Flexcar thing.

Anyway, the point is, even Gunbound, which I consider to still be somewhat tame and unoriginal, came after many attempts. Course, I was 13 at the time.
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 11:45pm

Post 43 of 69

Mad Mike

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I have a small child here so will enjoy your splinter cell later.

To answer your question why try with so many effects I cant do. Nothing in life is absolute. I can go back remake improve. Ben I'm a beginner and without all these glorious mistakes I wouldnt have all this information. For every mistake I make its a lesson learned. Maybe the original edit was better its redundant i cant get into the harddrive
Jack Cage isnt a slasher movie.
The book wasnt a horror. it grew into a beast of its own and I created a universe I could play with like you do with splinter cell or any other films you have made on material you like.
I'm not at your level and dont think I will be for a while I dont have the time or the resources.
I know to use the tripod but after filming about ten times over a handful of times with a handful of people its all a learning process.
its not about doing something I can't. Its about learning how to do anything.On a side note Im not a fan of cgi but no one will let me shoot or stab them which i think is inconsiderate as I think its all for the good of my art.
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 11:52pm

Post 44 of 69

Mad Mike

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Pooky im 34. I have 11 months experience. I cant afford after effects or a DSLR.

The fact that you understood this post and the thread shows character and i'll watch your films and bens tommorow.

Jack Cage will always continue because once upon a drunken weekend in blackpool the name sounded cool and i won the drinking contest hands down with a lovely blonde that claimed to be related to some bloke from back hawk dawn. as barney stinson would say true story.

Main point of this thread. Yeah it was crap. I can only improve it to a point.
I wont let any negativirt justified or not stop me from doing something im growing to love.
Hell Bruce Campbells the king of B Movies and I want a Phantasm 5
On that note my Name is bruce was terrible.

Even hollywood make bad movies and they have experience and money.
I have neither.
Posted: Fri, 10th Dec 2010, 11:56pm

Post 45 of 69

Pooky

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Thanks for the paragraphs/grammar there, makes it a lot easier to read!

To be honest I don't think anyone can *afford* After Effects, heh. VisionLab, sure, but AE isn't the sort of thing many people actually buy!

And anyway yeah, as I said, keep to it, looking forwards to your eventual masterpiece one day.
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 12:02am

Post 46 of 69

Mad Mike

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as I do yours Pooky. Anyone who wants to get there will if they keep at it as I will and Im sure you will.
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 12:07am

Post 47 of 69

Atom

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Rating: +1

Mad Mike wrote:

Pooky im 34. I have 11 months experience. I cant afford after effects or a DSLR.
rolleyes

Listen, man. You're talking here to a lot of people that are much younger and have (relatively) the same inexperience and comparable equipment/budgetary restraints. You don't have actors? Welcome to everyone else on here. You don't have money for a camera? Same as everyone else. You didn't have time? Well, there's that for everyone, too. Most everyone, at least.

Not I, no, necessarily. But people on here nonetheless. The defense of 'I can't afford that, so that's why this is _____' or a substantiation of age or merit or experience doesn't in any way help your case, or present your work in any more of a flattering light.

I may sound like a dick, but I stand by what I said- even as a joke.

I think it is laughable to examine restraints of things like quality or equipment that are mended or can be covered through extra effort or time (e.g. You've got a worse camera that picks up poorly- spend more time lighting the scene to bring out the best of it's quality!) and then think that a plethora of poorly-pasted, haphazardly done effects- effects that you, admittedly, don't have all the prowess to do- are tenets of requirement. That they are necessary to tell your story, and so while they cannot be excused, a poor level of cinematic or technical quality simply can- because it's all up to budget and inexperience.

Such is not the case. And I suppose it is that I never was nor really am into the whole visual effects side of filmmaking that I think this way, but I truly believe it's a foolish mentality- and a hierarchy of thought and necessity, in filmmaking, that I strive very hard to unwind in newer or less-experienced users.

And, you know what? It works. Most people I've talked to, hammered down to alter their mindset on limitations, have thanked me for it. The very same way I, as a new user, had thanks to give to Andreas and MechaForce and CX3. The same that ol' Triple Dick, and Jabooza, and Biblmac, and RodyPolis had for me.

Think about how you're looking at your projects- about how you're prioritizing them- and consider your strengths and ambitions, even if it's your first project. I'm not being a script Nazi here and saying your focus has to be on STORYSTORYSTORY on anything like that.

But look at what is realistically achievable within your scope of talent, means, and time- and go for something at least close to that. You can go above and beyond, sure, but don't tackle a heavily effects-laden epic-fest like Jack Cage.

Because, well, you end up with what you have. Which isn't notable for particularly anything except being a 'first attempt'.
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 12:18am

Post 48 of 69

Mad Mike

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Correct Atom a first Attempt. Please provide a link to the very first thing you filmed.Your whole response to this entire thread is completely negative and not all constructive.You dont want to help out a newbie thats fine. You want to be negative thats fine. freedom of will.My response was to Pooky who was constructive unlike yourself. Coming in so far after without still saying anything helpful.Now this isnt a critism. But people pointed out things in this posted that I didnt even notice. fresh pair of eyes and all that.My age my experience doesnt matter.But trying making ineberation without the locations you had, the help, experience, the equipment.it all counts.and yes story counts but if it takes blowing up a helicopter in the worst possible way or using the effects visionlab provides to bring my own creation to life my choice.and then when people tell me what ive done wrong I learn. Atom your a great film maker no one would argue with that but if i were where you Id try and help not just critize. story is everything yes but learning how to be a good story teller is the job of all newbies
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 12:34am

Post 49 of 69

Biblmac

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Ok Mad Mike, you are aware that the last 3 or so posts from Atom were constructive, right? I know he can defend himself but this is just unnecessary. Everything he said in that last post, I will attest to.

As for what you just wrote, you know you just said that you just warranted his negativity by saying "thats fine."??? I mean you just gave him a right to be negative by saying that there is nothing wrong with it.

Mad Mike wrote:

My response was to Pooky who was constructive unlike yourself.
As for this, once you post something on this forum, it is to everyone. Just fyi.

As he said, when I first got here, he was rather mean, rude and an all around jerk to me, because I needed to realize that his points were not only relevant but valid and important. He may come off as rude, mean and jerkish but some times that is what it takes to get through some people thick heads. Atom is human, his first post was not constructive but since then he has been.

If you want to be "mean" to someone, I will give you a reason, learn how to spell.
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 12:42am

Post 50 of 69

AwesomeFist

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Mad Mike wrote:

Correct Atom a first Attempt. Please provide a link to the very first thing you filmed.Your whole response to this entire thread is completely negative and not all constructive.You dont want to help out a newbie thats fine. You want to be negative thats fine. freedom of will.My response was to Pooky who was constructive unlike yourself. Coming in so far after without still saying anything helpful.Now this isnt a critism. But people pointed out things in this posted that I didnt even notice. fresh pair of eyes and all that.My age my experience doesnt matter.But trying making ineberation without the locations you had, the help, experience, the equipment.it all counts.and yes story counts but if it takes blowing up a helicopter in the worst possible way or using the effects visionlab provides to bring my own creation to life my choice.and then when people tell me what ive done wrong I learn. Atom your a great film maker no one would argue with that but if i were where you Id try and help not just critize. story is everything yes but learning how to be a good story teller is the job of all newbies
But you also got to consider, in inbriation most of that "help" came from his friends, and also if you look hard enough, odds are you might find a great location to film.

Also if you can't afford the proper equipment/hardware, get a job and work for some money. You say your 34 and if you are a lot of this stuff you can archive/get if you work hard enough, yet you choose to ignore some of the advice people are giving you.

Just think about what I said, and also address what others have been trying to tell you. Once you do you'll be glad you did in the first place.
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 12:44am

Post 51 of 69

Mad Mike

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ok apologize to Atom.
howeverf ive only seen one post from atom after the original post not a "last 3"
everyone here has been helpful and i mean everyone.
Late night posting on any forum is never a good idea.
Atoms original comments being on the likes of Yikes really bad if not laughably.
Atom is a great film maker.
I'm a novice.
no excuse fact.
If you didnt know about effects and film making *this to evertyone* the terms muzzle flash, masking to name a few are alien.
I intend to sit down and watch a lot of fxhomers films shortly to learn and improve.
However like me and everyone else once you know something you analysed it a bit and deconstuct it. as bad as jack cage was it has been enjoyed. and i knows its very bad. surprised no ones commented on my bad acting
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 12:49am

Post 52 of 69

Mad Mike

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Awesome fist

"Get a job" I have one thanks, but sadly film making isnt my priority my son is. not an excuse a fact.
and even having a job would most likely not give me the resources or the networking atom has built up over the years as a he became a great film maker.
Thats just a plain weird assumption "get a job".

I think we all need to count to ten.
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 12:55am

Post 53 of 69

Atom

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I'm not really an enemy you want to make, man. Trust me.... wink

Last edited Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 12:55am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 12:55am

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Pooky

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I've gotten up to 1768 and nothing's happened yet neutral
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 12:59am

Post 55 of 69

Mad Mike

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lol Im not trying to make enemies Atom.
and I honestly admire what you have achieved but the fact your make a threat publicly on these boards to someone you dont know and its allowed to be posted is amusing.
This whole thread has got out of hand and was started by you off handly making a comepletely negative and non constuctive comment.
For what its worth I liked ineberation more than inception lol sorry I really didnt like inception.
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 1:12am

Post 56 of 69

Pooky

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YOU DIDN'T LIKE INCEPTION? Alright, now you've done it. Let's fight. Meet me out back in an hour.
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 1:14am

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Biblmac

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Oops I got Atom mixed up with Ben...
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 1:15am

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AwesomeFist

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Mad Mike wrote:

Awesome fist

"Get a job" I have one thanks, but sadly film making isnt my priority my son is. not an excuse a fact.
and even having a job would most likely not give me the resources or the networking atom has built up over the years as a he became a great film maker.
Thats just a plain weird assumption "get a job".

I think we all need to count to ten.
I'm not here to make assumptions, if you already have a job that's great, I'm just saying that this stuff is too hard to accomplish, your just making it harder then it is, if you can't afford something find a cheaper route: borrow equipment/cameras/lighting from some people you know, most likely they will be willing to help.

And you don't need expensive lighting either, if you have some work lights in your garage, (Most people do.) use those, just all depends on what you have or can use, and what use you are making of it.

Also atom didn't start anything, and I would suggest you also listen to him along with a few other people such as pooky. We are here to help, not fight. Please stop trying to argue with us and just listen.
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 1:25am

Post 59 of 69

Mad Mike

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Lol no we dont all have garages lol with lighting equipment stored in like the batcave.

I dont have an army of people willing to help. Just volunteers as many newbies do and some dont even have what i did.

Just because I bought something from fxhome and decided id like to have a go and learn doesnt mean there are people hidden away to meet my needs thats just not realistic.
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 1:26am

Post 60 of 69

Mad Mike

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Sorry Pooky didnt like it at all. But then I loved Nightbreed and never heaqrd anyone say a good word about that film
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 1:37am

Post 61 of 69

AwesomeFist

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Mad Mike wrote:

Lol no we dont all have garages lol with lighting equipment stored in like the batcave.

I dont have an army of people willing to help. Just volunteers as many newbies do and some dont even have what i did.

Just because I bought something from fxhome and decided id like to have a go and learn doesnt mean there are people hidden away to meet my needs thats just not realistic.
Either does atom but he he can get stuff done. He doesn't have a "army", but he does have friends willing to help. And you would also be surprised that he also planned a lot of inebriation in a cafe with a bunch of friends, he's even said it himself.

And I will admit I'm not a professional, and Atom and Ben probably know a lot more then I do when it comes to this stuff, so my advice would be to listen to them. A lot of people have tried to help, but your not letting them, and you just keep on arguing with them.

So just stop and listen for once, I'm not going to argue with you anymore, Because no matter what I've said so far you just keep on fighting. And the reason "this thread has gone out of hand" as you said before is because of your lack of cooperation.

Last edited Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 2:11am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 1:44am

Post 62 of 69

ben3308

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Mad Mike wrote:

and even having a job would most likely not give me the resources or the networking atom has built up over the years as a he became a great film maker.
I don't understand. Are you equating film proficiency with time invested? Because that's not really how it works. The reason I used myself (and Atom) as illustrative examples was because film proficiency is, less than age and resources, a product of effort, knowledge, and natural talent.

You can get mad (irony!), I guess, that some are born with more natural talent than you, but it's not resources, and it's not time. We have made all of our movies with money and resources pooled through us being talented, charismatic people (our veritable 'garage of lights' having been given to us by the good folks at Tubetape and FXHome). The 'first efforts' in filmmaking I see around here are seldom because of age or resources, but lack of knowledge. Even 13-year-olds on here have done huge things when they put considerate thought into working around their lack of camera resources or equipment.

I mean..........we showed you what we made when we were 14. Do you want to see what we made when we were 12, and compare that to your 'first efforts'? I feel as if a 12 year old might not know the same things as a 34 year old......

Last edited Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 1:46am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 1:45am

Post 63 of 69

Biblmac

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@AwesomeFist, the only person who he has at all shown "disrespect" to or been "rude" to, who was trying to help him, was Atom. Before that he was doing fine. As for that, he apologized to Atom, so lets just move on. Sure Atom is good but that doesn't make him a good teacher wink
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 1:48am

Post 64 of 69

Arktic

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Guys, that's enough bickering.

Please restrict comments to feedback about Mike's video. If you have anything else to say, do it in private messages.

If you carry on arguing, the thread will be nuked - simple as that.

Cheers,
Arktic.
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 1:55am

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ben3308

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Mad Mike,

I am sorry to have argued with you. If you would find it advantageous, I can contact you privately about what improvement I, specifically, would make to improve 'Jack Cage'. That being said, I did, in truth, really enjoy the short film, and was not being sarcastic.
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 1:55am

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Mad Mike

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This thread really has become pointless which is kind of sad becomes there was a lot of constructive critism.

and im not being funny but Atom and Ben your great film makers.

but youve turned it into a something akin to a backroom bar brawl.
Ben you last comment "Just because some people are born with more talent than you"
No point commenting anymore really.

I started this thread.

I can see why it deserves to be nuked
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 2:01am

Post 67 of 69

Mad Mike

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Ben its not about age i could be 5 or 50 fact is im new your not.

Last year I didnt know what masking or a muzzle flash was.
does my lack of knowledge make me a bad film maker?
Of course it does hence the point of asking the feedback.
My first project was over ambitous but people outside of fxhome enjiyed it and i enjoyed making it.
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 2:06am

Post 68 of 69

ben3308

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Mad Mike wrote:

Ben you last comment "Just because some people are born with more talent than you"
The point I was trying to make was that yes, there are people that are more talented to whom things come easier. It has nothing to do with age or being 'new to the website'. ssjaaron, a previous user on this website, was always more talented than I was, and it was upsetting to me for a while. He wasn't that much older than me, didn't work longer/harder than I did, he was just better than I was. More talented.

It doesn't seem fair, sometimes. But if you blame it on everyone but yourself, that gets you nowhere. I understand it's a first effort. But if you fail at it, to improve you have to make up for your shortcomings with better ideas, a better approach, and a smarter execution. That, again, is not related to resources or time or money or knowing what a 'muzzle flash' is. That's just being a smart filmmaker, which anyone has the capacity to do.

The 'talent' thing was said also because it seemed as if you were trying to get to the root of why people were better than you. My point is that sometimes people are just talented at what they do, that's it and that's all. You ever seen Amadeus? biggrin
Posted: Sat, 11th Dec 2010, 8:26am

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Sollthar

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A moderator has told you to stop arguing and leave the thread and all of you keep on it like a pack of first graders. Giving others advice on how to behave towards filmmaking or on messageboards but unable to set up a good example yourselves.


This thread is locked.