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Anyone into making armor? Any kind

Posted: Thu, 14th Apr 2011, 3:34am

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Viktorious

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I'm trying to make some leather armor or metal armor. Any advice? What if I can't find any leather for my chest armor? Can I use something else? I thought of cutting a trampoline net and then spray painting it silver or brown to get a chain mail effect or leather. Kinda lame I know. But I'm running out of ideas.

Does anyone know how to make a helmet? Even if you start with a painted bike helmet and then add spray painted cardboard to it to make it look medieval. I have a Gondor Lord of the Rings helmet already and I would like to make it sort of like that. Cone shaped with metal feathers on both sides.
Thanks for your time
Posted: Thu, 14th Apr 2011, 5:58am

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Axeman

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Rating: +2

Hehe, funny you should ask. I'm in the midst of making a bit of armor right now. Here are few WIP pics from my Twitter feed over the past few weeks:

http://t.co/fpWEWer
http://t.co/opkmiPB
http://t.co/88UIlBg
http://t.co/UxcGcs9
http://t.co/XRSDEX5
http://t.co/VetIDz3
http://t.co/b5srveR
http://t.co/kjWHjKr

I found some patterns online, modified them a fair bit, and some of the bits I created the patterns from scratch. A good place to start with patterns is http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/

I'm working with sheet styrene, which I was able to get in a 4'x8' sheet, and is relatively easy to work with. And affordable, I paid about $30 for the whole sheet. The scaled breastplate will be mainly black, while the rest will eventually get a chrome paintjob airbrushed onto it, which you can get a hint of in one of those pics of the helmet.

Styrene is good for making metal-based armor patterns, but it probably won't work as well for leather armor. its not going to have the flex of leather, although boiled leather can get pretty stiff. The trickiest part I've found with styrene is if you have to create compound curves, like the top of the helmet. Figuring out the pattern for that took a long time, and then I had to use a lot of filler onside so I could sand off the points. I've just been using cyanoacrilate (CA) to glue everything together and for the filler. Thus far it has worked well, and I should get some of the final painting done within the next week. I'll continue to post pics as I progress.
Posted: Thu, 14th Apr 2011, 4:58pm

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Viktorious

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That looks great wow. Keep us updated on it. Is styrene sort of flexible? I made some armor out of thing metal that isn't half bad looking but it's terrible for moving around. It's like walking around in a tin man outfit.

Is there any way you could put some step by step pictures of you how you did it? I understand you did already do it but if you make another set.

Thanks allot. It really inspired me.
Posted: Thu, 14th Apr 2011, 5:17pm

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Axeman

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The styrene is fairly stiff once its put together. The stuff I'm using is about 1/6th of an inch thick, though it comes in a wide variety of thicknesses. It can be rolled up fairly well, but in order to actually make a permanent curve in it you have to use a heat gun or something similar to get it hot, then shape it around some sort of mold. I've been using a few scraps of ABS pipe, or cardboard pie, or whatever I can find that's round, as a base to shape things on. I also used a coffee can at one point.

It doesn't really flex as far as allowing you to move when you are wearing it, though, its much more like metal in that regard, so its important that the articulation be factored in when building the suit. This being my first attempt, I'm not trying for a full-on complete suit, that encases every part of your body, as I don't know enough about creating the joints and articulation yet.

I can try show/explain some of the step-by-step. If you can let me know exactly which steps you would like me to focus on, I'll try answer your questions.
Posted: Thu, 14th Apr 2011, 7:39pm

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mercianfilm

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I've been making a lot of armour at the moment- mainly leather based and chainmail at the moment as the period i'm working in didn't have plate armour (Axeman- yours looks amazing!) I have a few suggestions for leather based on what i'm doing now:

* Depending on where you live you should be able to find a fabric/ haberdasher or curtain shop that is close to you. In Derby we have several of each in the town centre which sell fabrics from around the world which is very handy. Some of them should stock a fabric called Vinyl. It goes by many different names: Flooring vinyl, faux leather, pleather and so on- it comes in lots of different textures and colours and it's a firm favourite of mine because it's a very good imiation of dried/rough leather. It's relatively cheap compared to real leather which would need quite a bit of skill to produce realistic looking armour. The only drawback is that it's made of a plastic type substance and so appears very shiny. You would have to line the inside of the armour with something like fleece or calico and then weather the materiel with sandpaper, paint, fake blood and so on to make it look worn.

* On the subject of fabric/curtain shops mine also stocks something which is very akin to cow hide- without the pattern on it- it has a look of very used leather and i sometimes use it for a very old set of armour. It would be useful to maybe take a few of your designs into the shop and speak with whoever owns it and they can help you find something. More often than not they know exactly what you're talking about and will find it for you quicker than you would by yourself.

* Another thing i'm hopefully going to experiment with is fancy dress costumes. I don'r know what type of leather armour you're making- if it's scale or a chestplate but a joke shop near me have a rubber costume that replicates a muscley chest. I was thinking of buying one and spraying it to replicate leather or perhaps iron- it had a look to it like a roman/greek muscle cuirass. It could look awful but it might be worth a go if you have good airbrushing skills.

* Chainmail has been a bit of a bugger for me- i've been looking at various techniques of replicating it cheaply and realistically. I've tried the weta method using pvc pipes and cutting them by hand- you wouldn't believe the amount of blisters you get from it- it took me months just to cut/clean and paint enough rings- i haven't even assembled it yet- a bandsaw would speed up the process and the pipes are cheap- if you had enough time on your hands you could look into that- from previous experience- i wouldn't recommend it.

*After all the hassle i decided it'd be best just to make chainmail in the original way- albeit the modern invention of 'butting' the rings together rather than riveting them. Real chainmail looks unbelievable and feels amazing to wear- i've heard horror stories of how heavy it is- and it is in your hands but once you put it over your shoulders and it spreads the weight you hardly notice it's there- apart from the amazing clinking noises it makes when you walk biggrin If you're going to have chainmail i would suggest this method- it's so easy to learn the basics of weaving- the tools and materials are cheap- i also made a full shoot within about 10 days- and that was just in spare time- if you put your mind to it you could churn em out incredibly fast- you just have to put up with all the blisters!

* Another method for chainmail is knitting it out of strong and dense wool and then spraying it with metallic paint- a lot of old films and plays use this method but it looks awful and neither your actors or your audience will believe in it. However if you're on a budget it might be better for you. (Having said that it only costs around £20 for all the wire to make real chainmail and i suspect that it would cost the same for wool, plus the man hours needed for both would be similiar so in the long run you'd maybe save a few pounds using wool- a big sacrifice compared to how amazing real chainmail looks.)

I've got a few pictures of leather armour on the first page of my production thread- i used vinyl leather for that. Only problem is those photo's were taken about a year and a half ago and my armour nowadays looks a lot better- the aforementioned chainmail should be seen on my production blog within a couple of weeks.

Anyway, all the best with your costumes, i don't know if i've helped you out with anything specifically but i've rambled a bit about my past experiences with armour and hopefully you won't run into some of the pitfalls i did. Good luck!
Posted: Thu, 14th Apr 2011, 8:36pm

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Axeman

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Thanks mercianfilm, I'm pretty happy with how it is turning out as well. And incidentally, I am working right now with some vinyl flooring for another part of one of these costumes. It would actually work really well for scale armor of the type I posted; next time I'd probably go with that over the styrene i used, for that particular piece.

As far as chainmail, I've created an entire shirt of 4-in-1 maille, using steel wire (17 gauge electric fencing wire, in this case), and I GUARANTEE that you can knit a shirt in 1/4 the time it would take to make it out of wire links. I bet it would be more like a tenth of the time. But yeah, it won't look as good if the camera is anywhere near it.

For my more recent maille endeavors, I've been using http://www.theringlord.com/ as a source for wire and links, and they also offer relatively affordable pre-woved sheets of maille, which could be cut and stitched into clothing as well, depending on your budget. This stuff is being woven by machine, with welded links, which helps keep the cost down without sacrificing quality.

Another option to keep an eye on is www.museumreplicas.com which has a Deal of the Day where they offer one product for half price each day, and occasionally they offer chainmaille stuff. Earlier this week they had a black chainmail shirt for $140, and the following day, they had a matching coif for $60. All of the stuff they offer is excellent though. I recently picked up a riveted aluminum maille coif from them for $90.
Posted: Fri, 15th Apr 2011, 1:37am

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Azulon'sAssassin

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Well there's this way:

http://www.indymogul.com/backyardfx/episode/YFX_20101026/zombies-knight-armor-and-giant-talking-heads-your-fx

( you may want to use the link I put below. they talk about it in the video.)

http://www.indymogul.com/backyardfx/episode/BFX_20070917/stunt-dummy

There's this, or there's always my way, wich is more expensive, but is sturdier and more permanent. PM me if you want to check out my way.
Posted: Fri, 15th Apr 2011, 6:37am

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Axeman

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Another quick update, I finished most of the painting on my scaled breastplate this evening:



This is for the Knave of Hearts in a play of Alice in Wonderland, thus the red trimming. But the main body of the piece was sprayed with Satin Black Krylon from a rattle can, then lightly dusted with some chrome enamel model paint using an airbrush, just to give it a bit more of a metallic feel. Then I used the same paint and a drybrushing technique to highlight the edges of the scales a bit more and make it look a bit more worn. Once this is all dry tomorrow, I may do a little more drybrushing to finish it up.
Posted: Fri, 15th Apr 2011, 7:30am

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rogolo

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Looks great Axeman! The patina is a nice touch.

I skimmed through the thread, so sorry if I missed it, but do you have any ballpark figures for material cost and/or manhours involved? I don't think I'll have an application for this knowledge anytime soon, but my curiosity is piqued...

I do have one criticism though: the 70's mustard-tinged carpet. wink
Posted: Fri, 15th Apr 2011, 8:05am

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Garrison

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rogolo wrote:

I do have one criticism though: the 70's mustard-tinged carpet. wink
Be glad it's not shag carpet eek

Great stuff though Axeman
Posted: Fri, 15th Apr 2011, 2:22pm

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Axeman

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Hehe, trust me, I have more criticisms of the carpet than you do. It is truly awful. But thanks, guys.

For the piece in that picture, there is probably $15 worth of styrene, though realistically you'd have to spend $50 on styrene to get it that cheap, and have a bunch left over for other projects. The CA glue is fairly expensive, so probably another $10 for glue, again with some left over. There's a belt I riveted to the back for wearing the thing, which was $1 at a second hand store. Rivets and other hardware bits were probably $5. $10 for the paint, again with a fair bit left over. So for materials, that puts us at about $40, somewhere in that range.

As far as time involved, I haven't really kept track, but I'd guess there is something like 12 hours involved there, including the time to create and size the pattern, cut it out, shape the styrene, lots of time cutting and gluing scales, then adding all the details and painting. In addition to the belt on the back, there is a loop riveted to the back of each shoulder, to which a cape will eventually be attached. And a few other hardware bits that help hold the whole thing together when you put it on.
Posted: Fri, 15th Apr 2011, 6:41pm

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Viktorious

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The armor looks great Axeman. But since you can't really move around in the armor I don't think that's what I want.

And yes you did help Mercianfil. Except one thing. I didn't understand your second to the last way of making chain mail. Butting? What is it? Could a guy cut some pvc pipe like someone suggested already and then just weave some fish line in and out of it?

I have tried making chain mail with copper and then wire but that wore off my finger tips like none other and took forever. I would need this by summer. It's not happening

I have thought of doing the wool thing but only out of trampoline net. It would look pretty lame but the budget of a sixteen year old combined with saving for college and your mom and dad not letting you buy many things off the internet is rough. But anyway (after my sob story) I might try it.

Vinyl sounds interesting. I thinks it's what I'm looking for. How expensive is it? I would need to make at least six chest pieces.
Posted: Fri, 15th Apr 2011, 8:32pm

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mercianfilm

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Rating: +1

Viktorious wrote:

Except one thing. I didn't understand your second to the last way of making chain mail. Butting? What is it?
Sorry! Butted is a method of making chainmail which is pretty prevalent in modern re-enactment, larp and most films- basically once you've wound the wire (i use galvanised fence wire) around something like a dowel or spoon you get a spring- it looks a lot like a trampoline spring actually. You then cut each of the rings off using pliers or small bolt cutters and what you're left is are individual links of mail. Using another set of pliers- or your fingers you bend each link until both sides of the cut link touch- the term is 'butting' for some reason. It differs from real chainmail as that has each link riveted by hand.

Viktorious wrote:

Could a guy cut some pvc pipe like someone suggested already and then just weave some fish line in and out of it?
To be honest i can't see that looking very good. Chainmail is weaved by 4 closed links being closed within another open link which is then shut- a 4 in 1 weave that Axeman mentioned.The reason chainmail has it's distinctive appearance and strength is because each ring is enclosed within another 4 ring on all parts of the suit. I feel that putting fish wire through it would perhaps give it a too 'open' look- then again you'll never know unless you experiment-if you have any spare pvc- give it a go!



Viktorious wrote:

I have thought of doing the wool thing but only out of trampoline net. It would look pretty lame but the budget of a sixteen year old.
I think considering your budget this might be the best option for you if you have a spare net you don't need - making budget costumes is always frustrating because you usually have to sacrifice something looking very realistic with something being cheap- in most cases it is hard to do both- more often than not you have to settle for a compromise and just do whatever you can with your budget. Having said that i think someone of your age having this kind of scope and ambition is very cool- i think that when it's done it's going to be a welcome change from seeing a lot of gunfights and lightsabre duels that most low budget film makers create. All the best with it!

Viktorious wrote:

Vinyl sounds interesting. I thinks it's what I'm looking for. How expensive is it? I would need to make at least six chest pieces.
Well in pounds it's anywhere from £4 to £8 per metre depending on texture and colour. Usually two metres is enough to do one chest piece- excluding the lining you would need. If you have a fabric shop like i mentioned earlier near you, you could always ask for end of rolls or dirty pieces. Usually (depending on how snobby the shop is) they can't sell a product if it's been dirtied somehow- being run over by a trolley or getting a lot of dust on it etc- i've brought a bit of this fabric and usually it's alright after a wash. It's also incredibly cheap because they're trying to get rid of it. End of rolls are perfect for low budgets too- sometimes if a shop has got fabric from a roll that is doesn't quite make up a metre they discount it by a lot and sell it cheap- sometimes even giving it away! You should look out for this or ask the shop manager. I mentioned in another thread a while back about the blessing that are charity shops- some people frown upon them but i've brought a lot of good curtains, sheets and leather jackets very cheaply so it might be worth a look in there.

I've had a quick look and remembered this website i found when i was looking for pvc mail- it's very easy to understand and has better pictures than i do:

http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/Armor/Maille/PVCMaille.htm

Also the website Axeman mentioned - the ring lord- is one of the best for chainmail on the web i reckon- it's hard to find specialist mail such as that in different colours, riveted or forged wire and that website is very good for it! Might be worth remembering if you do something similiar in the future with a bigger budget and more time.

Sam
Posted: Fri, 15th Apr 2011, 11:01pm

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Axeman

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Viktorious wrote:

The armor looks great Axeman. But since you can't really move around in the armor I don't think that's what I want.
The fellow who I constructed this armor for, when he puts it on, can move around great. He can sword-fight in it, which is about as good as I can hope for. He does need a slightly-taller-than-average chair if he wants to sit down, but otherwise he can move as well as you can expect in any kind of armor. There's no way of getting around the fact that if you are wearing armor, your range of movement will be somewhat limited. Even if you are Batman on a multi-million dollar movie budget, your armor limits how well you can move.

I can't wear this myself, as I'm about 16 inches taller than the friend I'm building it for. The second suit, with the more classic knight in shining armor type styling, I'll be able to wear myself.

If you are weaving mail yourself, there are some excellent, easy-to-follow, well-illustrated instructions here: http://theringlord.org/derakoninstructions/simpleeuro.html That site also has instructions for lots of more complex jewelry weaves and such, but the standard 4-in-1 is the best option for armor, and the quickest to learn and construct. It still takes lots and lots of time though.
Posted: Sat, 16th Apr 2011, 11:28pm

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Viktorious

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Thanks allot guys. I love this website. When in trouble go to Fxhome. biggrin
Posted: Thu, 21st Apr 2011, 6:38am

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Axeman

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I made some good progress on my more classically styled armor tonight:



I got the straps all connected, so I can actually wear it, I re-shaped the breastplate because I didn't like the original pattern I had used, and I've got the pauldrons painted, so they are looking fairly metallic. They actually look a bit better in real life than they do in this photo. I'm only wearing one of the pauldrons here, because the connector for the other one broke, indicating that I will need to reconsider how exactly they attach, and try come up with a better idea than what I've got going on right now.
Posted: Thu, 21st Apr 2011, 1:45pm

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mercianfilm

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That looks absolutely incredible Axeman- i like the paint scheme- it's got a good look to it- fairly aged and not too brilliantly 'white' metallic. Good stuff.
On the subject of one of the straps breaking- what part of it broke? I ask because i've found that attaching buckled leather straps to things like vinyl or plastic (Haven't tried styrene yet) often has a very weak join- the fake leather stretches or frays quite easily and plastic tends to widen a bit when any pressure is put on it so the rivets fall through or snap the plastic. I was just wondering how styrene compared? Does it feel like the straps can hold the pauldrons and chestplate when a lot of weight/pressure is put on them?
Anyway great work- i can just imagine how it'll all look when all the parts are put together- gonna look amazing!

Sam
Posted: Thu, 21st Apr 2011, 2:15pm

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Axeman

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Thanks mercianfilm. It wasn't actually a strap that broke. I had used a hole-and-pin method to attach the pauldrons, where the gorget (the bit that goes around your neck) has two pins on it, and each of the pauldrons has a hole which fits over the pin, so they can just slide down into place, and not be inclined to fall off. I was hoping this would allow them to rotate enough to keep up with your arms as they moved around, but it wasn't entirely successful, and then last night one of the pins broke. I think what has to happen is the pauldrons need to be attached to the arms, and be completely independent of the gorget and breastplate, so they can move anywhere they need to when you flail your arms about.
Posted: Thu, 21st Apr 2011, 2:24pm

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Pooky

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That looks like a new Facebook profile picture, right there! wink
Posted: Thu, 21st Apr 2011, 2:26pm

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mercianfilm

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I've got a book by Osprey that shows how they used to connect some pauldrons- they'd have a strap at the lowest part of the pauldron- close to top of the elbow which would be buckled around your upper arm- around the lower biceps mostly- with the buckle facing either in front of you, or behind you so it doesn't stick into your arm pit. That i think was the anchor to keep the pauldron in place tightly around your arm. Then at the top where you have your pins it would have leather string or chain i suppose which was tied to holes in the gorget or the shoulder straps of the breastplate. I've made scale mail armour for my arms in this method and it holds them up well enough- the buckles around you arm don't restrict any of the muscles and the leather string/ chain is there purely to stop the pauldron from sliding down your arm. I don't know if you've seen this method at all? The knight in the book is supposed to be from the hundred years war but some of the weapons look like the ones they used to paint in victorian times so i'm a bit dubious about it's authenticity. It worked well enough for me though- and judging by the locations of your pins it might be worth trying to tie a bit of leather through each hole- it'll hopefully give it a bit more room to move where a pin wouldn't.
Posted: Thu, 21st Apr 2011, 3:00pm

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Axeman

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Cool, that's basically what I was thinking of doing. I had planned to add a strap around the arm connected to the lowest scale of the pauldron all along, but after the problem last night I was considering using some sort of strap or lacing to connect it to the gorget as well, so it would have more freedom to move forward and back. Thanks for the input. I still need to figure exactly how to connect the strap on each end, but I think the idea is good, and will work.
Posted: Sat, 23rd Apr 2011, 3:37pm

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Axeman

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I got the straps all figured out for the pauldrons, and the range of movement is now vastly improved. I just ended up attaching buckles to the gorget, and then using the existing hole in each pauldron to connect a strap by means of a rivet. Having a few inches of strap there allows for a fair bit of movement around the shoulder, so it follows my arms much better now.

Also, I've nearly finished the paint job on my helmet:



The detail on the visor will eventually be gold, once this paint is dry enough to apply masking tape, and the rivets aren't actually attached yet. Even though the helmet is actually glued together, I'm using rivets all around to make it look like an actual steel helmet. I may also end up having to shorten the helmet a tad, by trimming a bit off the bottom, as there seems to be some contact between the helmet and gorget when I turn my head.
Posted: Tue, 26th Apr 2011, 4:22pm

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Axeman

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I finished my helmet last night:




I should have the rest of the armor finished by week's end, and will post photos then. I've got it all painted, other than a few details, so its mainly a matter of letting the paint cure for a bit before I reattach all the straps and buckles.
Posted: Thu, 28th Apr 2011, 4:35pm

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mercianfilm

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Looks fantastic as always Axeman! Can't wait to see it all assembled- on that subject- do you have any period clothing for underneath the armour? quilted gambesons or some form of tunic? I think it'd enhance the armour a lot more if it did- saying that though it looks amazing as it is.
Have you managed to trim the bottom of it yet? Looking at the most recent photos it doesn't seem like there'll be a lot of room for the gorget- which, i suppose, is a good thing for armour.
Anyway, looking forward to seeing it completed!
Posted: Thu, 28th Apr 2011, 4:42pm

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Axeman

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Thanks Mercianfilm. And yes, I have a fair quantity of period costume to go with the armor. In fact, I put all the armor on my brother yesterday, in costume, and took some photos, which I'll get some links to soon.

I did trim the bottom of the helmet after taking those pics, and it helps, though there is still a little bit of a contact issue if you have too thick of a gambeson underneath the gorget. At least for me. For the guy who will be wearing this in the play, his neck is much longer than mine, and there isn't a problem at all.

I brought the finished armor down to rehearsal yesterday, and I gotta say, on stage, with a spotlight on, it looks pretty fantastic, and quite convincingly like actual metal.
Posted: Thu, 28th Apr 2011, 8:47pm

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Viktorious

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Yeah it really does look great. Thanks for the inspiration Axemen
Posted: Thu, 28th Apr 2011, 10:34pm

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Axeman

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Here's some pics of the final suit. I will likely still add a faulds and tassets for the upper legs eventually, but for now, it is done.

http://www.belowthesmile.net/storage/armor

The AlClad II chrome paint I used is capable of a near-mirror finish, but it tends to be a bit darker when you finish it that way, and since this is for the white knight, I went a bit heavier, for more of a silver look. that, and due to this being my first experience with an airbrush, I also am not all that proficient yet. (I learned airbrushing in even a light breeze makes getting an even coat very difficult!) But regardless, I'm quite pleased with it.
Posted: Thu, 28th Apr 2011, 11:19pm

Post 28 of 36

Viktorious

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I would be pleased also. I'm geleous of your skill. biggrin
Posted: Fri, 29th Apr 2011, 3:48pm

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Axeman

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Thanks Victorious. But in this case, I think it goes more to persistence than to skill. I screwed up plenty of times, and had to re-build some pieces, and reshape others, and repaint some. So deciding to actually start building and then seeing it through to the end were the main skills involved, I'm sure you could get similar results if you gave it a shot.
Posted: Fri, 29th Apr 2011, 6:03pm

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Biblmac

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I don't think I've posted on here yet, but I have been following this, it's. You did an awesome job! Very impressive.
Posted: Sat, 30th Apr 2011, 2:46am

Post 31 of 36

Viktorious

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I do agree with you Axeman. I think many people could accomplish many things if they just have the determination and will power. Thanks again
Posted: Tue, 10th May 2011, 4:53am

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Prospero37

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Hi guys, there is also a product out there called wonderflex. It is a thermal plastic sheeting with a bondable side so when you heat with a heat gun and compress together you can use several layers to strengthen it. It also forms compound curves when heated and can be drilled and take rivets or screws. It is fairly expensive . I believe its $75.00 CDN for a 3 1/2 foot x 5 1/2 foot sheet. Many of the fx houses use it. There is a company it Canada which stocks it. Message me and I'll givve you the link. Can't remember if I'm allowed to post it here. redface
Posted: Mon, 23rd May 2011, 4:40am

Post 33 of 36

Prospero37

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Indy Mogul has also done a recent vid about using eva foam mattes with a heat gun to form them for doing sci-fi space armour inspired by one guy in their forums that did awesome Mass Effect Armour. Also the link for the wonderflex I posted earlier is www.cosplaysupplies.com. They have tutorials regarding the dual rough sided wonderflex but nothing regarding the new stuff yest.
Posted: Mon, 23rd May 2011, 6:06am

Post 34 of 36

Axeman

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Yeah, thanks for the link. I've not tried Wonderflex yet, but I have heard of it before, and maybe one of these days I'll pick some up and give it a try. I think for things like the rounded top of a helmet, it would possibly be preferable to Styrene.
Posted: Mon, 23rd May 2011, 6:56am

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djswallow

Force: 937 | Joined: 6th Jun 2008 | Posts: 109

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Try using this ?. It's one of the best episodes to date.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb6CXGortrQ&feature=feedu
Posted: Wed, 1st Jun 2011, 3:41pm

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axemaster

Force: 40 | Joined: 19th Nov 2005 | Posts: 21

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it would be cool if you made a timelapse video of your process.