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2 of one person fighting, need greeen screen?

Posted: Mon, 20th Jun 2011, 11:32am

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FXhomer57724

Force: 1000 | Joined: 28th Jun 2009 | Posts: 62

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Hi,
Thanks for everyone that has answered all of the post!!
If I put my camera on a tripod and filmed me, then I filmed me from right where I was the first time, can I put both clips togeter and get 2 of me in one frame or do I have to use a Green Screen to get 2 of me in the same frame?? I thought you could film like me walking and have me standing off to the side, say by a car and not use a green screen?? Thanks for the help! I was wanting to shoot a little video with me fighting with myself, and not using a green screen!!
Posted: Mon, 20th Jun 2011, 3:19pm

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Axeman

Force: 17995 | Joined: 20th Jan 2002 | Posts: 6124

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SuperUser

Its is very tricky to shoot a scene with any kind of interaction between clones, without using greenscreen. Not impossible, but tricky. he type of fighting will have a huge impact on how difficult this is as well. A knife fight, for example, will be harder than a magical fight where they are hurling energy or electricity toward one another.

Basically, if you are working with split-screen compositing, there will be a line somewhere in the frame where one shot ends and the other begins. the line should be invisible, of course, but if either of the clones crosses this line at all, then the effect breaks, or else you need to do loads of hand masking to form the line exactly around the edges of whatever bits of them cross the line.
Posted: Mon, 20th Jun 2011, 3:19pm

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EvansCinemas

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As long as the camera didn't move you could put both of you in the one frame, you could even do it if the camera moved but I don't recommend it wink. So no you do not need a green screen, just lay the two video clips on top of each other and apply masking where needed.
Posted: Mon, 20th Jun 2011, 5:31pm

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FXhomer57724

Force: 1000 | Joined: 28th Jun 2009 | Posts: 62

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EvansCinemas wrote:

As long as the camera didn't move you could put both of you in the one frame, you could even do it if the camera moved but I don't recommend it wink. So no you do not need a green screen, just lay the two video clips on top of each other and apply masking where needed.
So, I apply the 2 video clips on each other, how do I get the other me to show up is where I'm confused at?? I saw the Tutorial FXhome Superheros and the beach landing, but in the superheros side of the DVD, they were talking about layering a film with 2 shots and fading away one of the layers so the person look like it was in the movie jumper!! I guess I would have to mask out one side of the clip where there is no me to make room for that clip??
Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2011, 5:51am

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EvansCinemas

Force: 1425 | Joined: 21st Feb 2008 | Posts: 37

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FXhomer57724 wrote:

EvansCinemas wrote:

As long as the camera didn't move you could put both of you in the one frame, you could even do it if the camera moved but I don't recommend it wink. So no you do not need a green screen, just lay the two video clips on top of each other and apply masking where needed.
So, I apply the 2 video clips on each other, how do I get the other me to show up is where I'm confused at?? I saw the Tutorial FXhome Superheros and the beach landing, but in the superheros side of the DVD, they were talking about layering a film with 2 shots and fading away one of the layers so the person look like it was in the movie jumper!! I guess I would have to mask out one side of the clip where there is no me to make room for that clip??
Well you can mask the top video layer and whatever is underneath will show up.
Posted: Tue, 21st Jun 2011, 7:32am

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Biblmac

Force: 852 | Joined: 12th Jun 2007 | Posts: 1513

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I made a tutorial on this at one point, hmm...

Biblmac wrote:

Tackling Your Clone
Difficulty Rating: 7.5/10

Before we get started
Vocab

Locked Off Camera: A "static" (aka still) camera. No motion.

Let's get started shall we?
Part 1: Filming
Intro: Once again I will say this, when trying to deal with clones it all comes down to what you film! You can't go back and add a shot if you don't have it. Take, take, and take another take if necessary. Don't get lazy in the field! You only get one chance.

Quick Hint: Do not move the camera in between takes unless you are completely done with that angle. It is nearly impossible to replicate the exact height and angle.
Quick Hint 2: As with all clone videos, if you are wearing different clothing, it helps a ton in post (but you don't have to).
Quick Hint 3 It would be much easier if you have someone who looks just like your clone to stand in (with the same clothes) as your clone, when his face isn't visible, however for this tutorial I will assume you are alone in your efforts.
Step 1 To start off, pick a location, an angle you like, and a person you want to clone. Have that person stand as far away from the camera as possible, but still be identifiable, the further away, the less detail you have to worry about in post, but if they are too far away you won't be able to do any accurate editing, so try to find a good middle.
Step 2 Have your 1st clone (character 1) run at the air and act as if they are tackling someone. Do this multiple times with him tackling roughly the same area. It may help to mark that area with something, maybe scratch some grass away with your foot or put some tape down, or whatever, just mark it. Take at least 5 takes of him tackling different ways each time, but make sure he starts and ends in approximately the same place.
Step 3 Next you need to take your actor and stand him over the "marked spot" where he will take on the role of the 2nd clone (character 2). Have Character 2 act like he is being tackled in as many ways as they can imagine. The more you shoot the easier it will be in post (post production). Take at least 5.
Step 4 The next shot should be the one clone hitting the ground while the other lands on him, honestly, I can't think of a way to do this wihtout two people with approximately the same height, weight, and hair color. Also, make sure to move the camera for this part. Change the angle and maybe the height of your tripod. You would need to put your look-a-like in the clothes of the character who's face cannot be seen and then have the character who's face can be seen be the original actor. For this remember that you need at least 2 shots consistent with every different type of tackle. So if you tackle 5 different ways as suggested then there should be 10 of these shots, at least 2 for every type of tackle.
Side Note This effect is most easily completed from the following angle:
Part of your filming questions unanswered? Send me a PM (private message) with a more specific question.

Part 2: Editing
Intro:

Quick Hint: This will be a long and tedious process, so be patient.
Quick Hint 2: Sound effects are curcial, people are more likely to believe what they are hearing over what they are seeing. When you hear something, and see it happen, even if it doesn't completely look real, your mind will beleive it due to good sound effects.
Step 1 Import all your fotage into your editing software and pick your favorite clips, one of the tackler, tackling and one of the tacklee being tackled, (of course these have to match)
Step 2 Now place the footage of Character 1 under the footage of Character 2, and mask the top layer in such a way that Character 1 is now visible.
Step 3 Animate mask as necessary until the end of the clip. Keep in mind this will take lots of time!
Step 4 When you are happy with it, render it out.
Step 5 Find a clip of the landing you like best and cut the clip down so that the action flows from one clip to the next.
Step 6 Add artifical camera shake, grading, music, and sound effects. Tweak as necessary.
Step 7 Save the file. You're done!

Have a wonderful day/night!

-Biblmac-

(Feel free to PM (private message) me if you need any further help.)
I know that this is a "Tackling your clone tutorial" but the same principal applies for any kind of clone interaction.

EDIT Upon searching my documents on my computer, I found the following tutorial on how to "fight" your clone.

Biblmac wrote:


How to Fight Your own Clone
Difficulty Rating: 6.5/10

Before we get started
Vocab

Locked off camera: A camera that is completely static (not moving) normally due to the use of a tripod.

Let's get started shall we?
Part 1: Filming
Intro: This step is the most critical. I say this because this will literally "make or break" the effect. So pay very close attention to this step! There are more than one way to do this, I will be explaining what I feel will be the best in the end.

Quick Hint: Try wearing one thing for the first clone and another outfit for the second clone, this will make post easier.
Quick Hint 2:
Step 1 As I have said before, lock down your camera! Do not try any "shaky cam" things when working with clones as it will cause a huge pain in the butt in post!
Step 2 Shoot yourself facing off with no one, then cut.
Step 3 Shoot yourself facing off with no one again, but put yourself in a place that is facing where you were previously standing. Make sure to keep the camera in the same place as before!
Step 4 Cut to one of clone 1 running toward clone 2. (Optional)
Step 5 Cut to one of clone 2 running toward clone 1. (Optional)
Step 6 Now for the actual fighting, get as many shots as you can of you hitting your clone from an angle at which you can't tell if you are actually connecting or not.
Part of your filming questions unanswered? Send me a PM (private message) with the specific move you are trying to perform and I will give more detailed instructions.

Part 2: Editing
Intro: This step is just as crucial as the last, but if you completed the last step properly this one will be much easier (but more tedious).
Step 1 Ok, first off you need to get all your files to your computer, next bring them into Vision Lab (assuming you are using Vision Lab).
Step 2 The next thing you would need to do is put one layer over the other and use the mask tool to unviel the video underneath.
Step 3 Animate the mask as necessary for the entire shot.
Step 4 Repeat steps 1-3 for every clip.
Step 5 Once you "render" out your videos bring them back into Vlab for any effects, grading and any shaky cam you deem necessary.
Step 6 Render them all out and put them together in your NLE
Step 7 Add titles, credits, music, sound effects, and any last minute touch ups, and you are done! Congrats!

Have a wonderful day/night!

-Biblmac-

(Feel free to PM (private message) me if you need any further help.)
Hope this helps... Sorry that it's sooooooo long...

Many people find interaction between clones to be difficult, but my tutorial rates it 6.5/10, this is because it isn't actually hard, but simply time consuming. If you shoot your video right, which is really the only hard part, editing just takes patience, which some would say makes it hard, but I prefer to think of it as "time consuming" instead wink
Posted: Wed, 22nd Jun 2011, 9:11am

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FXhomer57724

Force: 1000 | Joined: 28th Jun 2009 | Posts: 62

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That helps, thanks for the info!!