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Premier or Final Cut?

Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 2:01pm

Post 1 of 43

anonymous

This is probably an old question but as a newcomer to dv editing, i'm wondering which is better overall, Premier or Final Cut Pro, or if there's very little between them. I'm a mac user if that's any help. Cheers.
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 2:04pm

Post 2 of 43

Joshua Davies

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If you can afford FCP3 it is a much better program for professional users although most people do just fine with Premiere.
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 3:17pm

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Kyeju

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From what i hear from sidewinder and mechaforce Final Cut Pro is able to produce much better Blue/Green screening.
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 3:54pm

Post 4 of 43

anonymous

I guess it's user friendlyness that I'm partly looking for. FCP seems pretty intimidating.
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 5:30pm

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sidewinder

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It's actually not too difficult to use FCP3, but you need to actually buy it, and not pirate it, since you will want to use the manuals for info and tutorials.
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 5:34pm

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Kid

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I don't know why everyone thinks Premiere is easy. It's not got a great interface and isn't really very easy to find things that you don't already know about it.

Oh I guess it does have AB editing for noobs which is easier to understand but not really good practice to get into if you want to move onto better things at some point.
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 5:45pm

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rmendoza

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Another huge bonus to FCP is if you have
a dual processor Mac, FCP will make use of
that extra processor.

Final Cut Express is also available for $300.
I don't know much about it yet but the GUI
is the same as FCP 3.
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 6:04pm

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Joshua Davies

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Express is very similar to FCP but doesn't have any of the realtime stuff. Still it seems less OTT than FCP so I like it a lot.
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 7:46pm

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Ice_Man

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oh, my god! that was gay!

I thnk I might have the record here, folks! it's like 7 posts al from one click! holy cow, schwar could you delete these (all but the first one)? for some reason I don't have the ability to delete my multiple posts. . .

Last edited Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 7:58pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 7:46pm

Post 10 of 43

Ice_Man

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I use Premiere primarily. it works swell with my dual athlon machine.

I've used Final Cut Pro 3, and was roundly not impressed. I've used both, but try not use FCP3 anymore, if I can help it.

I'm not going to start argueing which is better, as no one will ever truly have that nailed down. the only reason one person uses one over the other is experience, and what their colleagues and friends use. ask anyone why they use it, and apart from that, all they'll ever say is "It's more powerful than its competition" which can never be proven in an unbiased manner.
it's kind of like beverage preference that way. all the commercials in the world, and the best marketing campaign won't make any difference if your friends and family don't drink it. we are a product of our environment.

for someone new to the DV scene, what it really boils down to is:
1. who do you know that can give you hands-on advice and help
2. what's more cost efficient for YOU, nevermind what anyone else says
3. how much time you want to spend figuring it out through manuals and trial and error
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 7:46pm

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Ice_Man

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okay, this one's gone.

I guess I'll just have to edit them until someone actually deletes them. I'll tell a dumb joke in each one 'till they're deleted. . .

Last edited Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 11:32pm; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 7:46pm

Post 12 of 43

Ice_Man

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A rabbit and a bear were were taking a crap in the woods.
The bear looks over at the rabbit and says : "Do you ever have problems with sh*t sticking to your fur?"
The rabbit (a little surprised) looks over at him and says : "Why, no of course not"
so then the bear wiped his a*s with the rabbit

Last edited Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 11:32pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 7:47pm

Post 13 of 43

Ice_Man

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A man was walking through a forest pondering life. He walked, pondered, walked, and pondered. He felt very close to nature and even close to God. He felt so close to God that he felt if he spoke God would listen.
So he asked, "God, are you listening?"
And God replied, "Yes my son, I am here."
The man stopped and pondered some more.
He looked towards the sky and said, "God, what is a million years to you?"
God replied, "Well my son, a second to me is like a million years to you."
So the man continued to walk and to ponder... walk and ponder...
Then he looked to the sky again and said, "God, what is a million
dollars to you?"
And God replied, "My son, my son...a penny to me is like a million
dollars to you. It means almost nothing to me. It does not even have
a value it is so little."
The man looked down, pondered a bit and then looked up to the sky
and said, "God, can I have a million dollars?"
And God replied, "In a second."

Last edited Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 11:39pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 7:47pm

Post 14 of 43

Ice_Man

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There was a Preacher whose wife was expecting a baby. The Preacher went to the congregation and asked for a raise. After much consideration and discussion, they passed a rule that whenever the preacher's family expanded, so would his paycheck.
After five or six children, this started to get expensive and the congregation decided to hold another meeting to discuss the preacher's pay. There was much yelling and bickering about how much the preacher's additional children were costing the church.
Finally, the preacher got up and spoke to the crowd and said... "HAVING CHILDREN IS AN ACT OF GOD!"
In the back of the room, a little old man stood up!! In his frail voice said...
"SNOW AND RAIN ARE ALSO ACTS OF GOD, BUT WHEN WE GET TOO MUCH, WE WEAR RUBBERS."

Last edited Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 11:40pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 7:49pm

Post 15 of 43

Ice_Man

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"There is ALWAYS another rung on the ladder of human stupidity... STOP REACHING FOR IT!!"
-Anonymous Cop

"Violence solves everything, if it doesn't look like it's solving the problem; you're not using enough of it."
-Anonymous

"There are three kinds of lies--lies, damned lies, and statistics."
-Mark Twain

"Death is just nature's way of telling you 'Hey, you're not alive anymore'"
--Bull (Night Court)

Last edited Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 11:44pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 8:12pm

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Kid

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Well you may prefer Premiere but there is no question that FCP is technically better and more feature full. Adobe doesn't even claim its at the same level.
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 9:53pm

Post 17 of 43

Ice_Man

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Kid - how can you say that there's no question - I question it! But ya see what I mean? All anyone can EVER argue is that "Mine is better, that is fact, no one can argue it because I say it's better. Because I said it, it's fact!" that includes myself. if you were to ask me why I like Premiere over Final Cut Pro, the only answer I could give you would be nothing but an opinion! there's no way to make a statement as to which is better, because it's ALL based on opinion.



anyone - can somebody please delete my multiple posts???? The only one I want on there was the first one, but I can't delete them myself!! Will SOMEONE PLEASE delete those duplicate posts?!?!?!
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 10:08pm

Post 18 of 43

Kid

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Only the interface is a matter of opinion. Features and abilities of the software are tangible and FCP does way more. It also retains higher quality DV through rendering of transitions and such.

You can have your opinion about the interface but technically Final Cut Pro IS superior.
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 10:19pm

Post 19 of 43

sidewinder

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If you're gonna start from scratch, and have never used either, go with FCP. It holds more weight when you say you know how to use FCP, as opposed to premeire, which is used mostly by the amateur market (which doesn't mean it's bad).
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 10:23pm

Post 20 of 43

Ice_Man

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Kid - you're completely right, features and abilities ARE tangible, but how well they work is in the opinion of the user. and who determines how much quality is retained or lost? is it determined by shear bitrate? or visual quality, in which case you're right back at that opinion problem

I'm not going agree or disagree with you as to which has more features, as there are oodles of 3rd party plugins for Premiere. if you're talking just what comes with it, and not what you can get for it later, then you may be right.



Sidewinder - it depends on what type of resume you plan on putting that on. if you're going hollywood, then I don't think a working knowledge of either would make a big difference. The big market for Premiere is corporate video, not Amateur filmmakers, so if you're applying to the in-house A/V department of a big corporation (like Consumers Energy or something), then putting Premiere on your resume would be the better choice. . .
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 10:25pm

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Ice_Man

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GAH!! listen to me! I promised I wouldn't start argueing one way or the other, and look what you all have got me doing!!!!


That's it, I'm done with this thread!!
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 11:04pm

Post 22 of 43

Kid

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Ice_Man wrote:

The big market for Premiere is corporate video, not Amateur filmmakers, so if you're applying to the in-house A/V department of a big corporation (like Consumers Energy or something), then putting Premiere on your resume would be the better choice. . .
Oh yeah I can see all those corporate media departments using premiere! razz

That was sarcasm btw. Having worked in a corporate media department I know that they are probably the ones who poo poo it the most!
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 11:38pm

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cyclone3000

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I use Ulead Media Studio 6.0. I don't have a lot of experience with other programs. Is mine a pretty good one, or are there better ones out there?
Posted: Mon, 20th Jan 2003, 11:43pm

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er-no

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Well, in about three weeks I dive into FCP3.

It better be good. wink
Posted: Tue, 21st Jan 2003, 1:36am

Post 25 of 43

Klown

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Time for a dumb question.....but is FCP available for windows too?
Posted: Tue, 21st Jan 2003, 1:45am

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MechaForce

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You wish


Sidewinder! You haven't even used premiere. You've only heard about it!!!


But FCP3 is basically an industry standard . . . it's good. . . . very good.
Posted: Tue, 21st Jan 2003, 1:59am

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sidewinder

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I used premeire wayyyyy back in eighth grade. Never touched it since.

FCP3 is better, in the sense that it will let you do more.

you guys can argue the other points all you like (don't bother, though), but the above statement is true.
Posted: Tue, 21st Jan 2003, 3:31am

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Magic_man12

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Whats the main industry standard editing app?
Is it fcp?

WHats better than premier on a pc?

-MAGIC
Posted: Tue, 21st Jan 2003, 3:37am

Post 29 of 43

sidewinder

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Avid is the industry standard, but it comes with this huge $7,000 editing machine. So, you can't really use it for your movies.

FCP would basically be the next best thing. ILM asks for experience with it for many jobs, and it's basically good training for using a newer editing system.
Posted: Tue, 21st Jan 2003, 3:42am

Post 30 of 43

Ice_Man

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I'm sorry, I know I said that I'd stop watching this thread, but I just couldn't


sidey - I actually almost bought a full avid setup, but then my car broke down, and I had to get a new car instead of an Avid system. Avid rocks!
Posted: Tue, 21st Jan 2003, 7:04pm

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Kid

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Heh Avid do not rock and dont just do a system that costs $7,000 razz

They do a wide range of professional systems. They do a system based on DV which is $3000 and not even as good as premier or FCP. The different systems they do all vary greatly in features and only vaguely have the same interface. You can't just say oh I have an Avid which means I have the best thing cos it doesn't really work like that.

The problem is that there arn't any industry standards really. This is why DV is so popular cos its the most standardisation that they've ever had. Most of the systems are vaguely based around an Avid interface, even premiere and fcp.

Avid the company are set to go out of business pretty soon too. They are rapidly following most of the other 'professional' edit system companies being bought out or going out of business.
Posted: Tue, 21st Jan 2003, 7:15pm

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Kid

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Magic_man12 wrote:

Whats the main industry standard editing app?
Is it fcp?

WHats better than premier on a pc?
There isn't really an industry standard however most things have an Avid style interface so you can move between them. Premiere is probably the least like this. The best thing you can do is choose the other editing mode and not use AB.

There are various things on the PC better than Premiere. Some are better than others. I am currently using Edition which Pinnacle bought up. It goes from the same level as Premiere up to fully professional in the Purple, Silver, Blue Liquid range. It's also basically the same as the interface on Sony Edit Stations.
Posted: Tue, 21st Jan 2003, 7:15pm

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Hajiku_Flip

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Mind supplying me with a link with information on Avid systems? I'm interested in perhaps purchasing one.
Posted: Tue, 21st Jan 2003, 7:25pm

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Kid

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Well seeing as the cheapest one that isn't their shoddy DV offering is £18,000. I suspect you probably won't.
Posted: Tue, 21st Jan 2003, 7:29pm

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Hajiku_Flip

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Expensive they are, money I have wink razz
Posted: Tue, 21st Jan 2003, 7:30pm

Post 36 of 43

Kid

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Get Liquid Blue instead, its good. Or Purple for just DV.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2003, 2:34am

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av11d

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I've used both Premiere 5 + 6, and FCP3 somewhat extensively. I used to use Premiere, but switched to FCP3 when i bought my G4 mac. If you are making amateur movies it's not going to make much of a difference. I find i do finish projects fairly quicker in FCP3 compared to premiere, but that might just be because i have a little more expierence in it. If you have the money, i would get FCP, but it really doesn't matter much. Also, buy whatever software you know that your friend of relative has, since you learn a LOT by watching other people edit.
Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2003, 12:33pm

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justakid

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i've neva used FCP but from what i've read.. would i be right to presume its kind of like having prem/AE combined? not completely, but along those lines...

Anyone know Avid has any progs which are similar to their higher end stuff for consumers ?
Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2003, 12:46pm

Post 39 of 43

Kid

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No. Do I have to keep repeating myself?

They do a free one which does just about nothing. It lets you have like 2 video and an audio stream or something.

Then they do one for around $3000 which is very basic DV and is supposed to be the same level as Premiere or Final Cut Pro but really is much worse.

Then they do one at around $18000 which has hardware and does a few different formats but again is very basic featurewise and much more expensive than it should be.

The key points that follow the entire range are...

1. Vaguely the same interface
2. Very basic features
3. Hugely Overpriced
Posted: Mon, 27th Jan 2003, 3:32pm

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jirwin

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Premier and After Effects....those are the deadly combination...with those two programs you can do more than final cut could even dream of touching. You have those two programs, and there's no argument.
Posted: Thu, 30th Jan 2003, 3:47am

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scotcho

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Jirwin - a lot of people i know who use FCP also use after effects. I don't, but that's just because i'm too lazy to learn it.

As far as premier vs fcp, the color correction tools in FCP3 makes it way better. that is if you want to do color correction.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Feb 2003, 8:13pm

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mrfobar

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The final decision comes down to what computer you own and the money you would be willing to invest in it.

For a PC, Premiere is the best, it does run around $600 so its not cheap. You could get others for much cheaper but I would shell out the $600 for an easy to use interface with high quality output. Not to mention its from a well trusted company, Adobe.

For Mac definetely go with Final Cut Pro, it is around $1000 so be prepared. It is the easy to use, easy to learn and does the highest quality of any editing software. If you are new to the subject I would suggest Avid Cinema, it is extremely easy to use and has a lot of functionality.
Posted: Mon, 3rd Feb 2003, 8:16pm

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Kid

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Heh, I'd hardly say it was the best. Best of the shod perhaps. razz (Premiere that is)

Also after effects doesn't really do anything amazing. Most packages from the Premiere level up have those sort of capabilities built in. This is why its getting integrated with the next version of Premiere.