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The Matrix Reloaded

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Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 5:10am

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Ice_Man

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Rating: +3

I just saw it about 30 minutes ago, and I must say, it was an awesome movie! biggrin

the action scenes were well executed, the dramatic sequences were well acted, the story was well told.
there was a twist that caught me by surprise at the end with 'The Architect' that I totally didn't see coming. well, that and neo and the sentinels; still not sure if I understand that one. crazy

my one major complaint, was the montage sequence in Zion after Morpheus speaks. I liked the music, but the whole dancing bit lasted way too long. wink

all in all, a totally rockin' film!


p.s. : don't forget to stay after all the way till the credits are done for a preview to The Matrix Revolution! It's going to be sweet!
Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 5:39am

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MechaForce

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Rating: +2

Yah yah yah - the teaser at the end wasn't all that great . . .

BUT HOLY SH WORD THOSE WERE NICE EFFECTS!

The only big problem was that there were too many pointless thing in the movie. Like the fight in the micro-dojo with Neo and the rave thing. THE RAVE THING WAS LIKE THE FRIGGIN EWOK SONG IN STAR WARS EXCEPT WITH SEE-THROUGH SHIRTS!!!!!!! And the part where the dudes zoomed passed the camera when their truck blew up (the twins). And Neo could've toned down the flying - that was the wussiest escape from an explosion EVER.

I yelled "OH YEAH" when the dude got bashed in the face with the pole in the burly brawl. That was cool.


I think all the hype and teasers wrecked the movie because they gave away way too much and totally screwed me up.

OH! AND THEY DIDN'T DO ENOUGH BULLET TIME (with or without bullets - i wouldn't care)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and you also get some force for being numba 1
Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 5:45am

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Ice_Man

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I thought Neo's fight with Seraph was one of the cooler fights in the movie. . .

I totally agree that the Zion Rave Party could have been completely excluded from the movie.

'tone down the flying'? what do you mean? that he flew too much? man, if I could fly, I'd never walk. . . .

neo batting smith in the face with the pole was wicked, I was completely psyched when smith went flying into that building. . . lol
"oh god!"
"smith will do" wink
Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 7:37am

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LtMcMurphy

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Just saw it twice, and I must say, seeing it the second time sure does clear up a bunch. I had little idea what the Architect was talking about, but it made so much sense the second time. I wish I had a time machine so I could go to November and take a gander at the best movie of 2003.

The rave... yeah. 'Nuff said.

Agent Smith seems to sinister to me for some reason. I can't pinpoint it, but he is so diabolical, its great. I'm willing to wager he'll have a big part of the plot in 3.

The funniest part of the movie is the little sound effects in the Agent Smith battle scene. Did anyne hear the pinball noises or the crashing of bowling pins? When I heard those, I couldn't stop laughing.
Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 7:53am

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Aculag

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Yes, that was amazing. I had a lot of doubt about it, i was very skeptical, but all doubts are gone now. That was definitely a worthy sequel. Even if the rave scene was pointless.
Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 10:02am

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THEent

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damn i saw Reloaded last night wedsday 5/14/03 there was hundreds of people line up to see this film mAN! and thank god i came 2 horus early because belive me it was a mile stretch line! people from all ages 12-80
everyone was excited they gave us this free magazines and said u buy ETM and ANimatrix get 20$ back or trade 3 xbox,ps2 games u will get free ETM it was great night MANAGER 5min before movie
he said he never seen so many people and yes THE WHOLE THEATER WAS PACKED:eek: every chair in just 15min
MAN THE MOVIE WAS SO AWSOME
10/10 its great man!cool
i had this shirt where i wrote "MatrixFans.net" and "T.H.E. www.theent.com" it was great man!
movie awsome you will not be dissapointed

(sorry about my grammer)
Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 12:21pm

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Coureur de Bois

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Rating: +1

Oh yeah biggrin !! I also saw it last night, 10 o'clock, and it was REALLY FRICKEN AWESOME I loved that movie so much the effects rocked my pants off man!

some things about it:

I thought the dancing rave/sex scene was way overdone. I mean seriously the movie would have been the same if not better if that was left out. I was laughing the who time, the camera gyrating up and down trinity and neo was hilarious.

I also liked Link a lot more than Tank. I thought he brought some well-needed comedy releif to the film..."Where's my pussy?"

The burley brawl was very well done I thought, the CG aspects of it didn't annoy me as much as I thought they would. Yeah, Neo hitting the
Smith out the park was a nice touch. At first I didn't think that the music played during this scene didn't fit, it was too much like an old 70's action movie, but after awhile I started to like it.

There were a lot more little comedy things in this one, I though this made the entire film better. I like the part where one Smith adjusts the other Smiths tie, hehe lol.

I found the scenes within Zion to be really annoying. I didn't like it at all. I thought it brought too much of a "Star Wars" feel to the film. I also thought that the Mech in Zion looked dumb, it moved really choppily.

The Keymaker fricken rocked... no questions asked.

I also have a theory as to the next film...

You know the guy at the end of the film laying beside Neo, the "only survivor" of Zion? What if that guy is really Smith outside of the Matrix?? I know we are lead to beleive that Smith is only a program, but what if?? I mean he does say something to Neo, on the lines of "Me and you. We are closer than you know." And how that guy is gonna stab Neo. huh? huh? whats that all about? I think that guy deffinately has a connection to Smith.

I hope you all stayed for the trailer. I am so Fricken excited to see the final scene, with Neo and Smith fighting in the rain, that looks awesome.

hehe, that turned into a long post.
Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 12:46pm

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jstow222

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yeah, i saw it last night and it was great. the rave could have been left out but neo and trinies scene was very well done. i think it was an attempt to allow us to see zion as human. Also, the end was a huge shocker.
Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 1:38pm

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Neo

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Rating: +3

Right,

I’ve been away for a bit, I know, but it seems only fitting to make a return now, with the premiere of “my” new film. wink I’ve been known to ramble, and this certainly won’t be an exception, but I’ve got a lot to say. Bring the sauce and comments, you know I love it. twisted The last time I posted something like this was shortly after Episode II and we all duked it out in good humor (especially Tarn and I) biggrin . I don’t have anything negative to say about this movie (really) so I’m not sure I’ll feel much heat, but there is a lot to talk about. Here goes my review:

I watched it last night, at 10:00 pm and I thought Reloaded was absolutely ridiculously amazing. There is only one moment in the film where you say to yourself, “what the hell were they thinking!”: the “Zion Rave”. I know the Wachowski’s were simply looking for a stylistic intimation regarding the evolution of Trinity and Neo’s relationship, but they fell a little short. They’re huge fans of Orbital, Paul Oakenfold and Roger Sanchez, and they have been working very closely with Don Davis, so it’s not really surprising that this scene and his music (with a little Oribital tossed into the mix) played a key role. I was happy to see that this failed segment was fortunately short lived, but it could/should have ended up on the DVD as a bonus feature or dropped on the cutting room floor where it belonged. Regardless, and in my opinion, it didn’t damage the film in any way so I won’t harp on it any more.

Right from the get go, I thought everything was spot on and its clear that the Wachowski’s have been reading their Soren Kierkegaard between films. The movies tonality is heavily rooted in Neo’s existential journey through knowledge, perception and reality, but it’s tastefully done. I saw a lot of blank looks in the theater during some of the longer and more philosophical conversations (the implications of creating multiple A.I.’s and it spawning new independent intelligences/personalities was a brilliant extended theme), but I really don’t think it ruined the movie for anyone. A key premise of the film is the effect of repetition (seen in the “Matrix Code”, organization and behaviour patterning of the “Matrix Drones”) and the result it has on our thinking. As with the personalities trapped in the Matrix, it’s as if the Wachowski’s are yelling WAKE UP at us. While you could argue that an adult who lives the grind of an everyday workweek in a cube farm can only truly appreciate this, I can recollect the not so sober days of High School and the mundane cyclic agony of lectures while I was completing my Ph D. I could feel the pain of everyone in the Matrix, trapped in their “sequential loop” without an escape as the action happens flawlessly around them. Heavy stuff.

Neo’s journey of self-realization and reflection is explored in great detail throughout the film as he interacts with the “Keymaster”, “The Oracle” and “The Architect”. Any student of philosophy could draw a straight line to Kierkegaard’s three steps of enlightenment, but I think this goes much further. You really need to see this a second time and ignore the visuals (nearly impossible to do) and focus entirely on the socratic dialogue. The “version” conundrum presented by “The Architect” at the film’s end made my stomach spin violently..…did Terry Gilliam write this part!!!???? What a total head trip. I think everyone in the th eaterfelt “victimized” by the cryptic dialogue (in a good way). Lots of films aspire to this level abstract deliberation, but few are ever able to truly tackle it with this type of wit, logic and emotion. I won’t even try to deconstruct that one here as it would require more beer, Pantera, and cheeba than the world can offer, instead, I’ll wait and see if my “hypothesis” about the “Matrix” is correct when Revolutions is released in November.

Speaking of character development, boy has Morpheus changed! He’s no longer the patriarchal “father” figure of the first film; instead, he’s been humbled and humanized. When Neo confronts him after visiting “The Architect”, Morpheus has his feet yanked out from under him. Talk about the blind leading the blind. As I’ve mentioned, I have an idea where the Wachowski’s are going with this one (the second coming of Christ perhaps…..) and I won’t even try guessing, but the implications for the plot and characters are obvious. Oddly enough, they only hinted at Morpheus’ relationship with Niobe (I heard this was a developed theme), but then again, how much can you include in one film.

I’d like to personally thank the Wachowski’s for casting Harold Perrineau (“Augustus Hill”, the Narrator of the TV series OZ) as the new “Operator” of the Nebuchadnezzar (that's arrogant to say, because I'm a nobody really). I loved him in Oz and I think he’s even better here. I was also pleased to see that the Wachowski brothers remain “colour blind”, using a heterogeneous mixture of African-American actors in the film. Hollywood should take a note from their casting book.

It will be interesting to see what the Wachowski’s do with the late Gloria Foster’s character (The Oracle) in Revolutions after her passing prior to the completion of the film. We could spend hours taking cheap shots at the Wachowski’s for the obvious “Yoda” parallels established in the first film, but when she reveals the truth about the Matrix (or perhaps not, as “truth” is one of the films key motifs) we quickly forget the obvious and begin looking at the abstract. Yoda never talked madness like this!!! crazy tard

I really enjoyed the two new additions to the film, Merovingian and Persephone. The odd renegade duo who have carved out their own little piece of the Matrix, like a rogue drug lord, and they're guarded by two albino dreadlocked Twins who morph into two bizarre ghost creatures reminiscent of the Ring Wraiths. Lambert Wilson is brilliant in the role as Merovingian, a classic tyrant who loves all things French (if you speak French, your ears are in for a feast that will make you nearly piss your pants). His beautiful cohort is played by the stunning Monica Bellucci. I might get flamed for this, but Trinity’s got nothing on her!!!! Mien got!!!!

While the movie ends on a cliff-hanger, I wasn’t disappointed. I heard well in advance that the trailer for Revolutions appeared at the end and I abandoned ship before hand (I prefer surprises), but I’ve heard mixed reviews like the ones you’ve all been reporting here as well. I didn’t watch any of the trailers for Reloaded so my eyes and ears were pleasantly surprised.

I’ve rambled enough about the plot, characters, symbolism and philosophy, lets get down to the important stuff, the eye-candy. I agree with Mecha that we needed more “Bullet Time”, but I was really pleased to see that the effect wasn’t abused. While it’s obvious that they used the same camera rigging for the “Truck Collision” sequence on the freeway as they did on the “rooftop” in the first film, I can honestly say that I thought that the Wachowski’s earned my $12.50 on just that 7 second segment. Holy shit. That had to be the coolest thing I’ve ever seen in a film! My DVD player is going to be on a steady loop for a while when it’s available. I’m also contemplating trading in my 2002 GSXR 1000 for a Ducati 996/999. Thankfully I didn’t ride to the theatre or I’d have pasted myself all over the road on the way home. What an amazing series of shots.

Mixed opinions aside from some of the film’s “professional” critics, I thought the hand-to-hand fighting sequences were better in Reloaded. I don’t care what anyone says. The choreography was spectacular, the combat was intricate and there wasn’t anything repetitive about the stop frame action. It’s obvious that Keanu spent a great deal of time honing his skills for this movie.

I could ramble forever about this movie. Instead, I’ll put the beer bottle back in my mouth and enjoy the smile that the Wachowski brothers put on my face. I only wish I felt this good about Star Wars, Episode II, it makes that feeling much worse having seen such a spectacular work of filming art. The Wachowski Brothers have set the bar high for all of us amateurs. It’ll be interesting to see just who leaps over it in the years to come. cool

Last edited Thu, 15th May 2003, 4:16pm; edited 3 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 4:06pm

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sidewinder

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I basically agree with everything you said.

Unfortunately, I didn't get sucked into it like I did with the first one, and felt kind of dissapointed, but I think it has to do with the fact that I was really tired, i had a cold, and the theater I was in had the volume rather low with no bass, so I couldn't feel any of those explosions or gunshots.

In other words, I NEED to see it again, ASAP, because other than the rave scene, I can't really think of anything that was wrong with it. I guess I just wasn't in good condition to see the movie. Oh well, I always have the premiere in August. razz
Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 4:21pm

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Neo

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I hear you. The first time I saw the original Matirx I was recovering from Pneumonia. I hated it. I went to see it again a week later and I couldn't believe I didn't like it the first time.

The rave scene bit, but that's the only flaw. Too bad they didn't get Persephone in one of those transparent shirts!!!! lol

- Neo
Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 4:34pm

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sidewinder

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Yes. Maybe in the third...
Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 4:42pm

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Mellifluous

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Yeah, there's lots of references to deep philosophy that I studied at college, such as obviously the concept of reality (including references to Plato's myth of the cave, in The Republic), determinism etc.

Plato believed life should be dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge, & that's what the characters in The Matrix are ultimately striving for. He also wrote the myth of the cave which tells us about some people chained in a cave. The cave is their reality, & they know no other. One day one of them unfetters himself, escapes from the cave, & explores the real world. He returns to his comrades & tries to get them to leave the cave to this wonderful huge world he describes to them, but they do not want to know. And in the end he has to leave them there, because their minds are shut to new knowledge.

There are references too to the philosopher Nietzsche, and also Utilitarianism. Utilitarianism argues that things should be done for the greater good of the majority, so if people are sacrificed in the pursuit of this happiness then that's OK. But Joe Pantoliano's character in the first Matrix gets sidetracked & decides he doesn't care about humanity, he wants the greatest good for him.

I think it's great that this intelligent stuff is coming out of Hollywood & it's a whole new mythology really. It has classic elements that makes it similar to Biblical stories & the Greek myths, but it's a myth for the present.

There are similarities though to Dark City; anyone else notice them?

Mel wink

Last edited Thu, 15th May 2003, 4:57pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 5:12pm

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MidnightJester

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And, of course, like the first one, they make many parallels to George Orwell's 1984
(i still need to read that)

I loved the exploration of the idea of Fate vs Choice and how they showed him choosing responses to The Architect with the video screens.

The hand to hand stuff was better, but the only problem is that every time they did hand to hand it was basically the same sequences (except when they started using weapons). Unlike other people I didn't get bored because of that, though. I stayed attentive and interested throughout.
I couldn't believe that my friend got bored when they went on with philosophy for too long. He is the one taht got bored from repetitive fight sequences. He gets bored way too easily. At least I can say that he liked the movie.

I will never understand this man's logic when it comes to movie theaters. After we claimed our seats, I wanted to go out and play Dance Dance Revolution out front. We had 40 minutes until the movie started. He decided that it was better to stay in the theater for that 40 minutes for some reason and watch the slideshow over and over again. I went out and had fun with DDR (got to impress the people waiting in lines for the other theaters in the building cool )

Well, it looks like i'm giong to be seeing it again this saturday with one of my friends that didn't see it last night. Shall be great.
Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 5:31pm

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anonymous

Is it not obvious that the author knew a little about the Bible and followed some of the themes in it as well, ZION, NEO, NEBECHNEZZER etc.....
Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 7:46pm

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Cypher

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I posted this in another thread:

Well, I saw the movie and my conclusion is that if you go into the theatre not really expecting anything (ie, you succeeded in staying away from the hype) then you will enjoy the film. As a movie, it is not great and it is not better than the first one. Visually though, it surpasses the first, but that's about it...but then again, there's nothing new...its just the same stuff, but improved (a lot). So the best way to put it is that more of the same is not better.

7/10


*note: some parts felt like episode 2 all over again, and that wasn't good.
A few other things tho: i agree with some of what Neo said...but for the most part, I don't care for it. All of the philosophical stuff isn't really that interesting to me as I don't care for philosophy nore do i take a course etc. I know about the Allegory of the Cave and how it relates, but its all just an added bonus for later viewings. There is one thing though that I disagree with what Neo said and some other people.

The dialogue and the acting.

Although the architect scene was like a 10+ in itself, about 70% of the rest of the film's dialogue was really, really, really corny. Of course, the french guy was funny, and the oracle was interesting...but come on. Neo: I need you. Trinity: I know. So do they. Neo: okay. Trinity: bye....well, not exactly that, but similary crudish. The one liners were all too predictable from Smith and mildly funny. And I really disliked the speech morpheus gave...i would not have shared his views from that speech.

The acting: though not the worst, was not too good either. Alot of the time, Reeves seemed like he was just reading lines...it didn't sound realistic. It was sort of monotone and reminded me back to when he did Bill and Ted's...not a good thing (but it fit for B&T). Morpheus seems fat now and when he's on the truck, a few shots i can tell that he's struggling, (not saying I could do better, but he was struggling).

What i found funny was in the agent smith fight (the burdle brawl or whatever ppl call it)...i could clearly tell that some were just stuntman...one of the guys was actually fatter than smith and he had a bigger neck that didn't fit at all. It's in the shots where you see the back of their heads and neo is hitting them.

More or less those are the problems I had with the movie. It's by no means bad (ie, Ep 2/xXx), but its by no means great either (ie, forrest gump/minority report/phone booth).

It felt like a ridley scott film (Action sequence - lots of story - more action) mixed with some aspect of star wars (cheesy scenes to get the story going, ie, that stupid kid or the rave sequence) and some old school space sci-fi near the beginning with the ship and of course, the matrix feel.

I enjoyed X2 more.


EDIT: I went to aintitcool for the hell of it and read the review by harry, and i was agree all too much with it. Almost entirely. Scary.
http://linux10985.dn.net/display.cgi?id=15192
and
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=15211
Posted: Thu, 15th May 2003, 11:13pm

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er-no

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Aint it cool news had an excellent review of it.

I think I'll go and watch it in the cinema now though...

.... twisted
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 1:13am

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cantaclaro

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Orion that guy laying on the table by Neo at the end of the movie was Paine...most certainly Agent Smith...but he was in human form and just took over the body of Paine...but when he goes to the Matrix he will see himself as Agent Smith...the reason that he cut his hand was because he was experiencing the first time he could feel real pain or any other type of emotion for that matter....I saw the movie 3 times...once on Wednesday at 10...then this morning at 10... and again at 4:30 pm...I know almost all of the lines and I even took my tape recorder in to tape Neo's conversation with "The Architect"...I love this movie and can't wait for Revolutions....

Canta unsure
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 3:13am

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Ice_Man

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cypher, I didn't much care for the philosophy portions, either

however, according to effects producer John Gaeta, zero stuntmen were used in the 'filming' of the "burly brawl" (100 smiths versus neo)
apperently, that WHOLE FIGHT, from beginning to end was digital. that was told in an interview that was published online, and linked here in one of the multiple matrix topic threads (if memory serves, it was first posted in the thread on the "Official Matrix Reloaded Trailer")
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 4:37am

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Aculag

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I was wondering about that. It all looked real to me, but I knew there had to be CG. Didn't know it was ENTIRELY cg though...
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 5:11am

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Roxygirl577

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I just got back from seeing it for the second time today, two words...FRIEKIN AWESOME! I definetly thought the effects were a lot better than the first one, the intro catched my attention to, seeing the fight between Trinity and Smith. I had to sit on the floor for the second time because I got there too late, buts it's all worth it, I just laid on the floor and watched it, heh.

The rave was cool I thought, but way too long and kinda pointless with the story, but hey its ok. I looved the scene with the multiple Smiths, I couldn't believe it was ALL CG, it looked so real! But filmmakers have been starting to animate multiple people a lot in certain scenes, ever since Gladiator.

I thought one of the best effects, was when the two semi trucks crashed in the head-on collision, that was amazing!! The looked like accordions when they impacted, then they just blew up, awesome! I thought it was cool how Neo learned to fly like that, and how the ground did that wave thing before he blasted off.

Overall, I thought the movie was outstanding, and I can't wait for Revolutions! the trailer at the end was awesome, and I probably wouldn't have stayed after the credits if Ice Man didn't tell us about it, so thanks! I just didn't know what was up with the 'to be concluded', now I'm gonna be all anxious on what happens next with that Paine guy razz .

-Tricia biggrin
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 12:44pm

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chainsawash

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orion0340 wrote:


You know the guy at the end of the film laying beside Neo, the "only survivor" of Zion?
I was under the impression that all the ships were destroyed in an attempt to stop the sentinels before they reached Zion, and the plan was sabotaged by this "posessed" Agent Smith. So the crews of all the ships were slaughtered, not everyone in Zion. That was just what I thought, I could be wrong. This movie had a LOT to take in, and it took a second viewing to figure out what the heck the Architect was talking about.

I thought the burly brawl was too silly the first time I saw it and didn't care for it, but the second time it just fell into place and I realized that was the point, it was silly but damn good fun! Still thought the music was a little out of place, though.

Add another mark to the "I hated the rave" column.
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 1:07pm

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anonymous

From Knowles second review (linked by Cypher above):

"BTW – I want to correct something from my first review. ZION isn’t destroyed in MATRIX RELOADED. That was a point of confusion for me, sorry if this caused you any problems, admittedly I guess my mind was still on the event that had immediately preceded that conversation."
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 1:08pm

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Neo

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Interesting........I found no problem with the acting. Keanu is certainly no Al Pacino, but I think he's got the Neo personality down. I was actually pleasantly surprised, I didn't feel like yelling "Wild Stallions" once.

As for the philosophy, this is a big hangup for a lot of people. A couple of my colleagues saw it and were none to impressed with some of the longer rants. I guess that is a take it or leave it scenario. biggrin

I agree with you folks on the "Multiple Smith" scene, however I'm not a huge fan of the "all CG" stuff. There were a couple of segments that looked terrible, just way to computer like. It also appeared as if some of the shots were textured better than others, perhaps the artists/animators ran out of time.....reminded me of Spiderman, specifically the scene where he's jumping across the "blimps"- that looked brutal as well.

I'm concerned for the upcoming Hulk movie, which, as I understand it, has the Hulk rendered out as a totally CG character. Big mistake in my opinion. I think until this technology imporves and you are able to achieve 100% photorealistic sequences ALL the time, Producers should avoid integrating 100% CG characters with real actors.
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 1:52pm

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wpl

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I hate you all!!!!

(I havn't got to see it yet cry)
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 4:13pm

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er-no

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Ohh.. I think The Hulk should be a puppet mastered by Frank Oz and Jim Henson!

If only....
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 5:13pm

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TAP2

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I don't get to see it till the official uk release date - next wednesday.

also can you please write spoiler at the top of your posts cos one of your posts allmost ruined it for me.
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 5:18pm

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Ice_Man

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GAH! Sorry! which one almost ruined it? I was trying to be very careful not to give anything away. . . .
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 8:09pm

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Coureur de Bois

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Yeah, so I watched it again today, and I realized that the machines slaughtered the people on the counter-attacked, no all of Zion, duh tard.
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 8:47pm

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Cypher

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Ice_Man wrote:

according to effects producer John Gaeta, zero stuntmen were used in the 'filming' of the "burly brawl" (100 smiths versus neo)
apperently, that WHOLE FIGHT, from beginning to end was digital.
Either he lied or was talking about maybe most shots or they planned on replacing or whatever. Not sure. But from what I remember, I could clearly see stuntmen...maybe i was distracted by something, i don't know. would have to watch again.
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 9:05pm

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Aculag

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It did look very real to me.
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 9:53pm

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MechaForce

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The brawl was filmed the same way DXM was for the most part - all the bullet time stuff was 3D though -
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 10:15pm

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Neo

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I think we're messed up. I read that Keanu bought the 12 stuntmen who did the agent Smith scene with him each Harley's because they had to do it over and over, so it couldn't have been 100% CG as we've been saying.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read this in the New York Times.....
Posted: Fri, 16th May 2003, 11:46pm

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Aculag

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Was DXM all blue screen?

I don't think it was all 100% cg. It probably would have been quite obvious if it was. I might go see it again tonight, so I'll pay closer attention.
Posted: Sat, 17th May 2003, 12:35am

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cantaclaro

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Rating: +1

It was definitely not all 100% I read that same article along with about 5 others in various magazines...and here is some more proof.

http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_img/onset_reloaded_24.jpg

There are the stuntmen...

http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_img/onset_reloaded_18.jpg

and here they are doing the motion capture for the cg models....

Canta unsure
Posted: Sat, 17th May 2003, 3:43am

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Aculag

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So then it's proven! John Gaeta is a liar.
Posted: Sat, 17th May 2003, 5:17am

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MechaForce

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Rating: +1

No, he just dumbed it down:

Me: We used COMPUTERS to make DXM!

You: DXM was made entirely with computers? WOW! Those guys look realistic!

Actually when I read the article 2 months ago I thought the same thing - -
Posted: Sat, 17th May 2003, 6:06am

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Aculag

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Sounds about right.
Posted: Sat, 17th May 2003, 10:29pm

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Neo

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Still, I hold to my earlier opinion that some of that looked brutal. Eventually the technology will improve and bitches like me will stop complaining about minor things like this in uber high tech projects. wink

I saw it again this afternoon with a couple of my buddies who were too terrified to hit the late show on Wednesday.

I loved it the first time, the second was even better.

What a great film. I can't wait for the conclusion. biggrin

- The "One"
Posted: Sun, 18th May 2003, 12:29am

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MechaForce

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NEO! THANK YOU!
Posted: Sun, 18th May 2003, 1:02am

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Neo

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You're welcome. wink

Anytime.
Posted: Sun, 18th May 2003, 1:23am

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er-no

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I really didn't like it as a film overall.

Some really cool bits, just it tried to hard and ended up cheesy.

*sits back and watches Equilibrium again*

Having said that though... I did enjoy the ending and really want to see the conclusion. It just needs it to be excellent.
Posted: Sun, 18th May 2003, 1:26am

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er-no

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http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_img/onset_reloaded_22.jpg

Lol! 'Keeping the crows in order'.

I'll go and see it at the cinema though. I think that'll impress me more.

twisted
Posted: Sun, 18th May 2003, 4:52am

Post 44 of 208

anonymous

In all honesty, I did not care for the movie. The effects were not industry changing as the first Matrix was. I felt like I was dying a slow death in some parts of the movie. I mean yes the effects did a lot for me, but I think they were not used to enhance the movie. It felt like there were too many fights for no other purpose than to show us how cool they can be when coreographed-and they were painfully coreographed. That movie did not make me want to see Revolutions at all. Yes I understand the allegory of the cave and the architect. But when you write a story for a movie aimed at teens and young adults, you cannot try to write a story that only philo. majors and some smarter kids will get. You guys bullshitting about "understanding". Freakin awesome is a way to describe effects and visual intrigue it would seem, rather than a movie with a story...And if I've learned anything in my very short time of filming (and especially writing) its that dream sequences are cop outs where you have to overpass story holes. ergo (which was overused by the architect) you have a story that does not have two legs to stand on. Did we watch the same movie here???

-jb
Posted: Sun, 18th May 2003, 6:09am

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Aculag

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Well, I just got back from seeing a second time, and it blew me away almost more than the first time. That ending is F*cking great.
Posted: Sun, 18th May 2003, 1:27pm

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Neo

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sfb not logged in wrote:

Yes I understand the allegory of the cave and the architect. But when you write a story for a movie aimed at teens and young adults, you cannot try to write a story that only philo. majors and some smarter kids will get. You guys bullshitting about "understanding". Freakin awesome is a way to describe effects and visual intrigue it would seem, rather than a movie with a story...And if I've learned anything in my very short time of filming (and especially writing) its that dream sequences are cop outs where you have to overpass story holes. ergo (which was overused by the architect) you have a story that does not have two legs to stand on. Did we watch the same movie here???

-jb
I think we can safely agree to disagree on that one sfb. One thing I can certainly say for certain is that you are wrong in your "assumption" that the movie was written for "teens" and "young adults". If multiple interviews with the Wachowski Brothers are anything to go by, they wrote the movie for themselves. Warner Brothers may have decided that it would appeal to the aforementioned audience in terms of t-shirt and video game sales; nonetheless, I'm sure as a "writer", you can appreciate the ingenuity involved in the construction of the whole series.

Besides, I'm not sure any of us REALLY understood it. We're just offering up our opinions, some are routed in practical understanding of some textual works of philosophy while others (that you label inappropriately "bullshit") are personal interpretation. Each are of equal value.

I think it's incredibly important that we appreciate and respect each others comments here. I've seen these things get out of hand enough times.

Notwithstanding, here is some philosophy for you:

"Asummption is the mother of all fuck-ups". lol

Or as Rouseau said "Don't assume to know the unreal, until you know the real."

-Neo tard
Posted: Sun, 18th May 2003, 3:30pm

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moebius

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Rating: +1

Just watched it yesterday, hence my late entrance into this thread biggrin I really liked it, although I felt The Matrix held together better as a movie. It most certainly made me want to watch Revolutions, however: not only to marvel at the excellent CG (in general), but also to see if my theory regarding the plot turns of to be true.

I fully agree with most of you lads about the redundacy evidenced throughout the film. The rave scene was so indulgent it made me want to puke (literally, I kid you not!). Some of the fight scenes were unnecessarily long as well, but hell, I still dug every second of 'em. Even in the instances where the CG was blatantly dodgy, I found myself lapping it all up with glee smile

The thing that impressed me most about this movie was the amount of thinking it made me do after it was over - not unlike Memento, for example. I involuntarily found myself drawing up a number of "what if" scenarios, and have arrived at one that I'm absolutely livid to "test" when Revolutions comes out.

Overall, a pretty awesome movie! cool
Posted: Sun, 18th May 2003, 3:35pm

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fanofthepeople

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What got to me is I didnt like it the first time, I was unimpressed by the movies as a whole, but the second time, I started to like it a little, and the third I loved it!!! I love this movie. The part with the architect where he tells a tale of the unperfect world he has created. Here's what I think, the 99.9% are the people who are plugged in, and the 1% are those who notice something is wrong. And out of those 1% there is 99.9% of them who cannot see past the rules of the matrix. The 1% of the 1% is Neo. This is mathematically a problem just like the architect said. This person could cause the whole system to be destroyed and also destroy the human race. With that out of the way here are two questions, 1. If the architect knew that his system is not perfect, would he create a fail safe, say like another matrix? A matrix inside of a matrix, One to which the probabilty is very very very small that the 1% of the 1% could be the 1% of the 1% of the 1% of the 1% who interns fullfills the prophecy of which a man frees people from the matrix? I came up with this question after watching it a third time, if you were to think like the architect, you would eliminate all of the flaws that you could, but still there would be a flaw, and if you made it almost impossible to flaw the system, you would take that than having nothing at all. The second question is this, 2. why destroy zion at a crucial point to which your program is at its weakest? Would you just like the movies says , have control over it so it doesnt get out of hand? Why would you try to fight your most important fight of your career right when you are hurting, bleeding and almost out anyway? Let me know what you guys think about this.
Posted: Sun, 18th May 2003, 4:22pm

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Cypher

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too many 1% in there...just wnat to know if u messed up on one point....how do you get 1% out of 100% when you took away 99.9%? I'm no mathmetician...but isn't that 0.1% then? whatever...maybe that's something else to think about.

But um yeah...makes sense, more or less...especially the whole matrix within a matrix as a failsafe/extra control thing. I heard a long time ago that the new matrix was going to be matrix within a matrix and thought it was utterly stupid...but your reasoning makes it seem like its not the worst idea (tho it still sounds cheesy).

As for the wachowski brothers...I personally don't think they are very good directors. Look at this way: What have the made? Wrote assassins and did a movie called Bound and then Matrix. That's it. Surely you can't judge someone's talent by 2 things. Plus, when you look at the matrix...what makes it good are the effects and the story/ideas...when you think matrix, you don't think the way keanu or moss act...you don't think about the actual directing (well, i dont). I think of the plot...which from #1 is quite good, and they showed they know a thing or two about writing. In the second one, they slip a bit as harry knowles mentioned "it seems like an uninspired first draft"...which i completely agree with. Too much uninteresting stuff is in there...and i only shudder to think what the deleted scenes must have been like. Then, the FX...why do people give credit to the wachowski's for the fx? Did they model, texture, animate etc any of it? I highly doubt that. They had a vision of what they wanted to see...and they showed it to others. They have an imagination. Good for them! So do I. But I'm quite sure that they didn't do the hard work of planning everything out for the fx team to follow...that's what the visual effects supervisor does, is it not? yes. So why credit them? Exactly.

As for their directing skills...well, to me they have shown in #2 that their 'skill' is rather weak. Maybe they let the money or the matrix name or the publicity or something get to them...i dont know, but it seemed like they didn't quite know what they were doing. Almost all of the Zion scenes are poorly directed (yes, and the dialogue is shitty too).

But, that's what I think, you guys probably have different opinions.
Posted: Sun, 18th May 2003, 5:00pm

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sfbmovieco

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Rating: +2

im in total agreement cypher....plus, if u see an ugly girl enough times she gets prettier pretty fast...so of course if you see it three times then you will begin to love it...by no mistake too, because i would make a shitty movie that young adults would have to see three times before they understood it, that way i made close to 30 bucks, not just 10...good call guys twisted
Posted: Sun, 18th May 2003, 5:27pm

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er-no

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Its obvious from interviews I have seen that the Brothers decided to base their script and the Matrix on philosophers arguments (especially Descartes meditations and Hume's contradictions and understanding on the mind). They are obviously fans of Hume as he talks for thousands of words on how we are restricted by our own senses. Which is what this sequel is about. Choice is not ours, its already chosen. We are trapped within something within something. (I make sense to me wink)

Having just studied and argued for two years on the existance of an external world I feel I completely understand what the Matrix was about.

However the minute the Brothers decided to bring Cause and Effect into the film it lost its 'moment' for me. Thats a subject that should have been well avoided as its impossible to answer, let alone have characters in film basing conversations on.

The keymaker was superb, so was Agent Smith.

Oh and Link. He offered a fresh style to the operator. smile
Posted: Sun, 18th May 2003, 9:58pm

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1007

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You know, I have recently noticed(not necessarily in this thread) that many people are constantly complaining about how Reloaded did not make them feel the same way that the first movie did. I can only remotely understand their argument because they have obviously not taken into account the fact that it would have been literally impossible for them to make you feel the same way about the special effects and the overall story line unless if they could erase the memories of the first film from your mind.
Posted: Mon, 19th May 2003, 1:00am

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sfbmovieco

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Sounds more like a cop out to me. It's impossible to erase stuff from our heads but all I'm saying is, this one wasn't as good. Thats fair right?
Posted: Mon, 19th May 2003, 7:10pm

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1007

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Yes, that is true, from your point of view. What I am saying is that people are constantly comparing two films to one another(not necessarily the Matrix films) and they always find themselves saying "oh, well this isnt as good as...." and it just sort of defeats the purpose of making new films or follow-ups. I myself do it but I mean, I am almost sure that one of the major things that a filmmaker does not want to hear.

So, sure the first Matrix film was more inventive but, what do you think they could have done differently to make it better than the first, no rather the best movie ever?

(If your answer involves anything with special effects you are straying from your own argument)
Posted: Tue, 20th May 2003, 12:10am

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Cypher

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Better special effects! Better special effects!

lol. sorry.

I think that the whole point of a followup is to take what the first one hand and make it better...like i said in another post, more of the same isn't better (ie, the choreography was a little lame this time around). The first film would act as a stepping stone to the next one, and the second as stepping stone to third and so on. If you want the same thing...why don't you just see a director's cut or something? What's the point of a new film if it doesn't bring anything new...especially if its in the same series.

As for things that could have made reloaded better: either getting rid of most of the Zion stuff or just coming up with better ideas or at the very least some good dialogue. At times in Reloaded, it seemed a bit cliched for me...the first one didn't. The first one was very good in this matter...I can think of a bunch of stuff that was fairly original or shown in a new way. (ie, smart tie-in with deja vus)

I understand that you will never get the same mystery feeling from a sequel that the first one gives (if its that type of movie, ie, in this case, 'what is the matrix'). But they didn't quite expand on it...they just showed stuff that was mentioned in the first one (Zion) and a few iffy bits here and there.

Reloaded is in no means a bad movie...but its not that good of a movie either. It's enjoyable for the first viewing...but in further viewings, things will get boring. I've seen the film twice...I didn't like it as much as the first time. Only after the freeway chase did it really catch my attention. yes, i didn't really like the freeway chase as much this time...its cool and all, but there's nothing really 'fun' about it. The bad boys 2 chase in the trailer itself looks superior because that will be fun to watch.
Posted: Tue, 20th May 2003, 1:11am

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aaron 99

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i got to get me some of that cake eek

lol
Posted: Tue, 20th May 2003, 1:17am

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Ice_Man

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You all bring some very good points, it's been fun to just sit back and 'listen' to you all for a bit; but something cypher said made me think :

cypher wrote:

The bad boys 2 chase in the trailer itself looks superior because that will be fun to watch.
I don't necessarily agree with that. . . I think the chases will be different, but I don't know about one better than the other. Bad Boys will have some humour in it; where as the Matrix Reloaded chase had none, there wasn't anything funny about it.
but, only time will tell on that, I do slightly look forward to the release of Bad Boyz II, it looks like it'll be a typical fun Bruckheimer big explosions movie. lol
Posted: Tue, 20th May 2003, 7:33pm

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Cypher

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No, there wasn't anything funny about it, but at the same time, there wasn't anything really enjoyable about it. Even if you look at it in a technical point of view...why were barely any shadows cast? Why was the illusion of morpheus/agent being on an 18-wheeler not there because there wasn't any wind resistant...only some hair movements. Why were some cuts dreadful (ie, when the twins car flips...err, when you see it already on it's side...why is the actual start of the flip not shown, only a few frames from inside the car?) and other things like this.
Posted: Tue, 20th May 2003, 7:51pm

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1007

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How about not getting so damn nit-picky?



+ do you know how much time it took them to film that and how difficult it was for them to shoot a seamless scene on a pseudo-freeway?
Posted: Tue, 20th May 2003, 11:20pm

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Ice_Man

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"why were barely any shadows cast"? are you blind? I can't think of any instances where I had a problem with shadows that should have been there not being there. they all looked to be in place to me. . .

as to the morpheus agent fight on the truck; again, it looked fine to me. you can't \see\ wind resistance anyway, so I can't really say I understand what you're talking about. if you're talking about seeing their clothes 'flapping' in the wind, I think you're performing an excersize in futility; they were fighting, so their clothes would be constantly in motion from that alone, so I'm baffled how you could claim that you couldn't see any "wind resistance"
you say you saw some hair movements, this would indicate that if they weren't actually filming on a moving truck that they had big fans blowing on the set to simulate wind, which should affect their clothes anyway
but really, I don't know if that's what you were talking about anyway; you weren't very clear. . . .

why is the beginning of the twins' SUV flip not shown? because, as I recall, they were showing morpheus bust out his gun at the time, and (one of the drawbacks to film) you can only show one thing at a time on screen (without resorting to picture in picture methods; which I can safely say, would have f*cked that scene up)

I'm sure the Bad Boyz II chase will have some awkward cuts in it. . .that's just the nature of chase scenes.
Time will tell, though
Posted: Tue, 20th May 2003, 11:25pm

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Ice_Man

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oh, I just found out that in the scene where Morpheus 'faced off' against the Twins' SUV, the SUV was totally digital (well, the specific cameral angle where he makes the cut was, anyway)
as soon as I get my web domain back up, I'll post the proof (in video clip format) should be a couple of days.

so really, if they wanted to, they could have shown the SUV flipping. . . hell, they could have shown the SUV getting up balet dancing if they'd wanted to. . . .
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 12:15am

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er-no

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Most of the cars on the motorway floated?

*wonders if people will now watch closely at the wheels instead of the action*

*wants to start a conspiracy...*
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 12:20am

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Ice_Man

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*pffrt*
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 12:23am

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er-no

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PFFT back to you too. I am still trying to get over my hurt that the disapointment of the film has caused me.
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 12:24am

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Hybrid-Halo

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ROFL YOU SLUG!
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 12:25am

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Ice_Man

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that wasn't a *pffrt* at you in particular, er-no. . . it was just a general *pffrt*


"trying to get over my hurt"?? for goodness sake, people! it's just a movie!
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 12:26am

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er-no

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Hybrid-Halo wrote:

ROFL YOU SLUG!
*walks away from Hybrid*

*turns around with great speed and begins to run towards him*

*delivers a massive slap around the face of Hybrid in the vain hope to tune him down*

Pfft to you!
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 12:28am

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Hybrid-Halo

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*reels in pain*
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 12:28am

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er-no

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Ice_Man wrote:

that wasn't a *pffrt* at you in particular, er-no. . . it was just a general *pffrt*


"trying to get over my hurt"?? for goodness sake, people! it's just a movie!
Dude! I was being more than sarcastic. I am more hurt about Buffy ending (which I am) wink than I am the Matrix being sour.

It just goes to show me. The first Matrix wasn't just an amazing action film, it was an amazing film. The Matrix 2 had brill action, but the narrative and structure was way off. Its a good lesson I suppose. A bigger budget - doesn't mean anything.
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 12:36am

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Ice_Man

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er-no wrote:

I was being more than sarcastic
I suspected.


that was just kind of general venting. . . I'd heard that sort of thing quite a bit. . . and your joke kind of was the catalyst for a miniscule outburst. . .

too true. . . bigger budget doesn't always mean better movie. . .
a lot of the problem with story flow in this movie was that it was told in sections :
(large group of dialogue) - - - (action sequences with little to no dialogue) - - - -(large group of dialogue) - - - -(more action sequences) - - - etc., etc., . . .
most of the time (wait a minute, who am I kidding?) some of the time, action sequences can help flow a story along. . . but in 'Reloaded, they didn't. they told all of their story elements through large chunks of slowly paced dialogue between characters. it kind of seemed like blister packaging to me. . . you know, the way they sell pills and dentyne ice gum. . . a flat piece of foil backing on a plastic sheet with little bubbles on it. . . in this case, the bubbles were filled with story and action, seperate, but just about never together. . .
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 12:41am

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sidewinder

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The Matrix was sour?

I really don't get what yours or Cypher's problems are. Not enough wind? They were most likely using fans blowing at the actual wind speed you would experience. No shadows? The 3d lighting systems are now basically an exact simulation of real life. If there weren't very many shadows on the 3d models, the same thing would apply to real objects in the same situation. I didn't even know the SUV was fake.

You guys notice things that you think indicate fake CG, yet it would look exactly the same in real life. No hair blowing in the wind? Morpheus is bald, and the agent has very gelled-down hair. I am willing to bet money that when "The Making Of" is realeased, many of you will be so far off on what you thought was real and fake, or what method was used, it won't even be funny.
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 12:47am

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er-no

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I haven't even mentioned CG and to be honest I don't give a toss about that aspect of the film. It was let down because it was just a very average film.

It had action then boredom, then action then boredom. Coupled with the fact it was trying to explain something that philosophy cannot explain.

There was hardly any time for any build up of tension and equilibrium was so 'ALL OVER THE SHOP'. It just didn't hold me at all.

I have seen plenty of films this year that place Reloaded into the 'bad' film category for me. Don't get me wrong. I'll still wait and watch Revolutions. Damn it better be good though, because as a film. This one (in my opinion) was badly structured and didn't get anywhere (apart from the last five minutes).
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 1:35am

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anonymous

I for one couldn't care less about minute details about the cg. I am in awe of what can be accomplished by filmmakers these days and what can be done with cg. The industry has come so very far in only a few years, it's amazing. I loved the movie, I'll definitely see it again, and I'm not gonna whine about cg.

I agree that the dialogue was quite average, if not less than, and overall (other than the fact that it f*cking kicked ass) it was not a great film. I had an interesting point brought up to me today. The first movie was less action, and more plot, and more character development. The second was less plot and more badass action, and the conclusion will be more plot, not as much action as the second, but more than the first. That actually makes sense to me because it's a trilogy. Don't know if it's true, but it seems about right to me. Just an idea for all y'all naysayers out there. Heh. biggrin
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 2:57am

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cantaclaro

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I don't think that anyone who says the script, story, plot, whatever even realizes the fact that this is a 2 part movie...Joel Silver said it best...Reloaded and Revolutions are 1 movie cut into 2 parts...a 5 hour sequel to the original movie...To make comments about lacking storylines (xyz, whatever) is ignorant and infantile.

Canta unsure
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 3:01am

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cantaclaro

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It is like trying to judge one chapter independently of all of the rest of the chapters in a 3 chapter book. Retarded.

Canta unsure
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 3:18am

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sidewinder

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Rating: +1

Oh, and reloaded has the most realistic CG in any movie to date. So there.
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 3:28am

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Ice_Man

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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! lol lol
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 3:51am

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Aculag

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Heh.
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 9:46am

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er-no

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cantaclaro wrote:

It is like trying to judge one chapter independently of all of the rest of the chapters in a 3 chapter book. Retarded.

Canta unsure
I'll judge it how I want. They are calling it a sequel. Even the W brothers want to admit its a three parter and each movie holds its own.

I'll wait till the next one for sure. It better be good though wink
Posted: Wed, 21st May 2003, 11:50am

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Cypher

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Oh, and reloaded has the most realistic CG in any movie to date. So there.
Well, it was better than spiderman, so that's a relief...although in some bits it did lean towards it.........

as for the highway chase, i'm going to wait until i see that scene again to prove you wrong on your assumptions smile Since i work in a movie theatre...i can just walk in during parts of the movie and see what i like. twisted
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 2:51pm

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TAP2

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I'VE SEEN IT...
the uk previews/premiere was last night...

it was excellent but i thought it had a slow beggining.
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 3:45pm

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Neo

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sfbmovieco wrote:

if u see an ugly girl enough times she gets prettier pretty fast...
......ssssooooooo true........I usually blame this on the beer, nonetheless, I think this topic merits more attention than arguing about which textures looked better or if some redundant drop shadow was missing from the freeway sequence in Reloaded.

If this kind of stupidity continues, we'll all be bitching about combinations in Star Trek episodes before we know about it. evil

Speaking of issues......how did Cypher log into the Matrix and meet with Agent Smith in the first film without any of the others knowing.......clearly....someone had to plug him in........

-Neo
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 4:06pm

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Joshua Davies

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Hey Guys,

As most of you know I'm not the biggest fan of the first movie. Its a fun action sci-fi comic book film but thats it in my eyes.

Saw Reloaded today, couldn't really get into it for about 20mins but after that I really liked it. The pace was a little jumpy in places and the CG was good but not as real as it had been made out (most of the digital doubles were quite obvious) and not the best I've seen on the cinema screen. There were 2 fights that seemed quite pointless and if Neo has telekinetic (spelling?) powers why doesn't he use them more?

The great thing was that none of these things really bothered me - I was having too much film. The Neo vs. Smith fight was fantastic even when you could tell they were CG and the car chase was great even with all the random jumping flying cars.

Not sure if these things will annoy me more next time so I'll leave it a week or so before visiting the matrix again. I really like the direction they took with everything although I did not expect it at all. Didn't really like how Neo can stop machines in the real world but I'll see how that plays out in next film.

Looking forward to Revolutions now, and to think I've still got my 2 most eagerly awaited films of 2003 to come - Return of the King and DXM.
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 4:44pm

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sidewinder

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Thanks Schwar. I got a new computer, so expect DXM to be done a little sooner than you think!

Oh, and everyone is wondering why Neo doesn't use his powers more often. Here's why:

Neo can only use his powers to affect the Matrix. Things like Agent Smith are in fact rouge programs that are running on their own, independently of the Matrix. THis means that when Neo battles them, he can't affect their code. You might remember the scene where he goes to visit the oracle, and he sees the chinese man sitting on that stool/bench. Unlike the normal green matrix code, he glowed bright yellow, showing that he was a different program. THis also applies to the things like The Twins, and the werewolves and vampires that Neo fights at the merovingian's house.
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 4:47pm

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Joshua Davies

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Doesn't mean he couldn't have made every single sword on the wall fly at the guys he was fighting.
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 4:56pm

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Simon K Jones

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Rating: +1

sidewinder wrote:

Things like Agent Smith are in fact rouge programs that are running on their own, independently of the Matrix.
Rouge programs?

Does this mean Agent Smith wears a lot of mascara? Maybe some blusher? Dresses up at the weekends?

Well, I suppose he was in Priscilla, Queen of the Desert!
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 5:39pm

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Aculag

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Haha. Just switch a little 'u' around there.... Done! "Rogue"! Ahh... much better.
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 5:47pm

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Ice_Man

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scwhar, for any movie fight scene to be any fun to watch at all, you can't think logically. if neo did the quickest and most practical thing to end his fights everytime, we wouldn't have any cool fight scenes to watch.

he probably could have made every single sword fly off the wall at the guys he was fighting. but that wouldn't have been nearly as interesting to watch as a well choreographed fight scene would be. and that scene had some pretty cool choreography in it.
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 6:16pm

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Seven

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Having swords hit vampire/ghosts wouldn't do anything anyway. wink
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 7:05pm

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MechaForce

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PLUS it wouldn't make a cool fight scene -
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 7:38pm

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Joshua Davies

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I think that was kinda my point, it seemed like a totally pointless fight. Neo should have finished it all in seconds and got on with everything else. I know its cool to watch these fights but sometimes they seem to make Neo look less powerful than he appears at other times during the film, or even the same scene.

BTW Seven, I think the swords would hit them, cause thats how he killed them anyway.
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 7:52pm

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Ice_Man

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say, he's on to something! in fact, why didn't neo use his "The One" power to form a protective force field around him instead of fighting all those Smiths? or why didn't he just fly away right at the start of that fight and avoid it all?
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 7:57pm

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Ice_Man

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complete sarcasm by the way


I guess you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue, schwar. . .

and besides, if you had to pick a fight you thought was pointless, it seems funny to me that you picked that one, and not the one where Neo fought Seraph, just before meeting the oracle.
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 8:22pm

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Joshua Davies

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I didn't pick one, I said there were 2, that was the other pointless one. That one was also really slow compared to the rest and you've gotta wonder why the only way of telling he is "The One" is to fight him. Maybe he should wear a special hat or a bomber jacket with "The One!" printed on the back. Even better he could have a fresh prince style secret handshake? Still, really enjoyed the film.
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 10:13pm

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Cypher

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I found the choreography more boring and less interesting in this one...it was mostly the same thing. Just ready the first review at aint it cool news...he says it perfectly.
Posted: Thu, 22nd May 2003, 10:25pm

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er-no

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Equilibrium is better.

twisted
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 12:08am

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Simon K Jones

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Rating: +2

No, really, it isn't. Not on any level.

Fighting in Equilibrium is fun, and Bale is fantastic...but that's about it.
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 12:41am

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er-no

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Well that was gay! Tab landed on the 'ok' for +2.

Woops!

Still. I enjoyed Equilibrium a lot more. I suppose its because its philosophy interested me a lot more than what was included in Reloaded. That just sucked.

I hate people trying to explain and they say they understand it. Its like when people say they 'completely understood Donnie Darko'.

Those people drive me more insane. If that was actually possible.
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 2:37am

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Ice_Man

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from a martial artist's standpoint, the choreography in reloaded was a little more intricate than in the first one. I had no complaints about the fight with Seraph, other than that it really didn't need to be there. it was well done, both fighters moved very well; there was just no point

the choreography in the first one was acceptable. they seemed to run out of ideas, though. they practically recycled all the techniques from Neo's fight with Morpheus to use in Neo's fight with Agent Smith; that really dissappointed me.


I was finally able to get my hands on a copy of Equilibrium today. A very nice film, I enjoyed it quite a bit. The fight at the end, between Angus and Christian was incredible. The Kali chain-of-the-hand techniques were very well executed.
for me, the crowning moment of that film would be Bale's first use of the Gun Kata, in the dark.
some cg problems in equilibrium, too; but I was able to overlook most of them, since they were few and far between; and because it wasn't the cg that was meant to carry the film.


Schwar - I was thinking a big neon sign that read "I am The One" wouldbe appropriate for Neo to wear. . . . and maybe one for Trinity that reads "I boink The One" razz
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 3:07am

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sidewinder

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heh. smile


Cypher, how is the martial arts boring and recycled? The situations and styles totally change in each fight! at the beginning, Neo beats the agents with no effort. Then, he fights the chinese guy, which is an even one-on-one, like in the first Matrix, then there is the burly brawl, where Neo fights a bazillion guys using a pole and anti-gravity moves. Then, he fights guys at the merovingian's crib with weapons like swords, clubs and maces, making for another total switch in styales.

Where does it repeat?
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 3:59am

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1007

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He was talking about the first film....



I hope
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 4:49am

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anonymous

I just watched equilibrium the other night, and I liked it a lot. I liked the matrix more, but I thought it was good.
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 5:23am

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LtMcMurphy

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Coleridge (the great Romantic poet) told everyone in an essay to "approach poetry with a willing suspension of disbelief." I think some people need to do that here. NEVER will a movie be real life. No matter how hard film-makers try, no one will every duplicate the complexities of human nature and society. It's impossible. To point a camera onto a random couple walking down the street is not capturing real life, since there is much more to what is going on that the lense cannot see. To say that a shadow was off, or this fight seems a bit out of place, you should first say that explosions cannot be heard in outer space or Michael would never kill Fredo. Yeah, one little mistake, why don't we hate the film from now on? Come on guys, you make films, you should know this stuff.
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 8:32am

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Joshua Davies

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Equilibrium isn't good, it hilariously silly in lots of places with so many mistakes and plot holes. The only reason I liked any of it at all is Christian Bale who is great and the one fight where the guys find he has the dog. Matrix and Reloaded are a different class of film.
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 9:25am

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danmec

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schwar wrote:

Didn't really like how Neo can stop machines in the real world but I'll see how that plays out in next film.
*SPOILER - DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVENT SEEN THE FILM*

















Ive seen it a couple of times now, and regarding Neo stopping the machines, here's what i thought, and also read. The "real" world of Zion is just another Matrix, set up to trap those who have "escaped" from the first Matrix. By the end of the film, Neo has figured this out and that is how he could stop the machines. No idea why he went into a coma though, and it's cool how he's now lying beside Smith, so that'll be interesting come November!

Dan
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 9:35am

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Simon K Jones

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Dan - I've heard a few people suggest that. I very much doubt they'll go down that route, though, as it will make the story impossible to resolve. If there is more than a single level of the Matrix, then there might as well be infinite Matrices, as you would never truly know if you were released. Which would be a very dissatisfactory ending - and would make any further struggle on the part of Neo, Morpheus etc essentially pointless.

Hopefully it'll be something a little more complex and original than that. Couple of theories we've come with are either that being so close to the Architect and the heart of the machines has given him an insight/power that he can use against the squiddies, or his contact with Smith has done so. As he has cyborg elements to his body, it is not impossible for him to send signals to them, even if it is stretching things a bit.
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 10:41am

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danmec

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Good points there Tarn, i guess we wont trully find out until November!

Dan
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 5:05pm

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Neo

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ah.............they certainly alluded to this within the Architect sequence with the "Multiple Neo's" on the screens, each perhaps answering from parallel "areas" of the Matrix.

Who knows for sure, but if they cop-out on the 1% of the 1% issue that would be truly disappointing.
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 6:23pm

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Aculag

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I never said equilibrium was in the same class as the matrix. It's not. I just thought it was good fun.
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 7:51pm

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Cypher

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"...styles totally change in each fight"

I dont agree in any way. It was all just punch, block, kick, block, punch, punch.
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 7:54pm

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Ice_Man

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well f*ck! at it's most basic level, that's all any fighting ever is!
that was a ridiculous complaint!
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 9:08pm

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sidewinder

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Rating: +1

It was all just punch, block, kick, block, punch, punch
No...It was more like:

Punch Kick I'm-Flying Argh-I'm-Flying-Into-A-Wall Blam Uh-Oh-More-agents Now-I-have-a-pole boom-I -hit-you-with-concrete I'm-a-helicopter whack whack whack boom-in-you-face Now-I'm-running-on-your-heads.
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 10:51pm

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Cypher

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iceman: yes, when you strip fighting down to bare essentials, yes that's what it is...but i didn't have to strip anything away from the fighting in reloaded to have that formula thing.

sidewinder: oooooo, a pole. woop-dee-doo-da...only enjoyable fight in the entire movie (and only once he gets the pole)

watch it again, and you will that it's not too good and strangely enough, the fighting in #1 was superior to this. I can't remember who said it, but someone said that the wachowski bros. have taken the stance that bigger is better...which in most cases turns out to screw things up and not be as good, and reloaded being an exact example.
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 10:53pm

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sidewinder

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Please be more specific than the fact that it was just repeats of punches and kicks. I mean, they did new moves all the time in every fight.



I still think you're wrong.
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 10:58pm

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Cypher

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wew...quick response. call a heads-up next time wink

Once i rewatch the entire film, i'll tell you specifics since you want them. The movie was not good enough to even stay that fresh in my mind, and its only been slightly over a week.

Plus, i don't really feel like pointing out all of the 'poor' or simply 'average' bits as they have been covered in many, many places and with much better explanations.

Again, the best review of reloaded is still at www.aintitcool.com.
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 11:11pm

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1007

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Name any film with large or small scale "ninja" fights in it, even including the first matrix, any one at all. Now go watch that film and tell me that they don't repeat moves at all. You can't, and I know that because I used to be completely over-critical myself(and I actually found out that I ruined people's times and memories of films by doing so. So do us all a favor and just try being a little more optimistic).

Plus, don't you think that maybe your expectations were a little bit high?

Also, I know that you are just expressing your opinion and I respect that. So I hope you respect my opinion in return.
Posted: Fri, 23rd May 2003, 11:58pm

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Cypher

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My expectations were much lower than many other people i guarentee you, maybe even as low as Schwar...maybe.

I stayed away from all the hype, didn't get drawn into the animatrix bits, the trailers etc...so if anything i had the most unbiased opinion. But as i was watching it, those things really stood out...the fights were dull. I'm sorry, but I found them very dull. Not once did I say throughout the fighting of the film "wow". In the original, i said that almost constantly.
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 12:30am

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1007

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Did you like anything about it.

The truck explosion(wow!!!)
Trinity diving out of the building(wow)
and Neo catching her(wow!!!)
Neo being able to fly(woah!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 1:05am

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sidewinder

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The agent who takes a pole to the face!!!!!!! OH YEAH!
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 2:50am

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Ice_Man

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Rating: +1

well, I just read the review on Ain't it Cool (http://www.aintitcool.com./display.cgi?id=15192), and I must say that was the longest straight running amount of bull sh*it I've ever read.

did the writer even actually SEE the movie?
that once you could see the code you could unravel it and make it your servant . . . .
turns out, Neo doesn’t even teach his best and closest souls how to unravel an agent.
part of what makes him "The One" is that HE can see the code. That's like trying to teach a blind man how to see.
At the end of the last film he could destroy code.
we don't know this! we saw him blow an Agent to bits from inside of him. . . that doesn't mean he can destroy code, what the writer did there was make a fool assumption
Neo… Agent Smith times 100. A pointless battle that serves no purpose,
people to need to really understand that the whole purpose of a fight scene is to be exciting and fun to watch. there is no logic in any of them. how many of you have ever shot a gun? it's not as hard as they make it out to be in the movies to aim, it's actually quite easy; yet in the movies, the combatants could be 10 feet away, and still they manage to miss each other with just about every shot. why? because if they killed themselves early on, the audience would be like "what the fuk? that's it?!"
sure neo \should\ have been able to form a protective shield around himself or whatever, but it wouldn't have been nearly as much fun to watch.
Ok, to underline how pointless the fight was, he just flies off, and the hundred agents just sort of wander off in this and that direction… Wow, how utterly unthrilling.
I found it rather amusing when all the Smiths stood there looking at each other awkwardly before walking away. besides, the period after a fight is never thrilling, it's the fight itself that is.
another martial arts battle with weapons that only seem to really affect solid inert objects.
sweet jesus! again, did he even watch the movie?! those same weapons that seemed to only affect solid inert objects KILLED all of the bad guys! so, is he trying to say that the bad guys were nothing more than solid inert objects?
This film features about 5 fights of Neo fighting folks Kung Fu fashion… BIG FUCKING DEAL, we got the idea at the end of the last one, that he could tear an Agent apart from the inside. But now… well now he’s very limited by his mind.
recall back to the first one. . . Neo getting all the martial arts training downloaded into his brain. how did Tank put it? "Hey Mikey, I think he likes it. Want more?" to which Neo replied "Hell yes!" this seems to indicate that Neo likes kung fu fighting. did it ever occur to anyone that the reason he 'kung fus everyones ass' is because he enjoys it? that's not being limited by his mind, it's a choice he makes.
Hell, when at the end, they break the news that Zion has been destroyed,
back to this "paying attention" thing. no, they didn't. Zion wasn't destroyed, they never said it was. The human 'sneak attack' on the machines that were digging is what was destroyed. not zion.

just about the only thing I agree with this guy on is the lack of exploration of the vampire\werewolf\angel\ghost\rogue program plot element. I was hoping to see some cool Matrix vampire action or something. . . but they didn't show anything of the sort, which sort of let me down.
wouldn’t be ranting about not having the Vampires and Werewolves and Angels and Demons and what not had they never suggested it, but they did. They said it could happen, then they gave us Kung Fu
overall, I think that was one of the worst reviews I've ever read. which is odd, because I found his review of X2 - X-Men United to be 'spot on' so to speak.
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 3:14am

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1007

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The only parts of the review I have read are in your post and I can already tell that this person has the attention span of a kid with ADD on crack.

How could you, honestly, think that Neo could destroy the code? If he could, what would happen to the Matrix? If I am not mistaken, the Matrix is made up of the code.

Of course, I know people that are like this. One kid at my school hated the movie and when I asked him why, it was revealed to me that the story was too complex for his brain. So I explained the plot to him and then sent him to the theater with a bunch of notes that I had written down on plot details and he loved it.

Also, some people I know get movies mixed up and sometimes just stop paying attention to a film(daydreaming) and then complain that there were frigging plot details!!!

The person at my school, who hated the film, also thought that Neo turned into agent smith in the first one and that Trinity was a ghost at the end of Reloaded!
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 4:27am

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Cypher

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Rating: -1

iceman: i compltely disagree with EVERYTHING you said in that post. I'm not going to go into it because you seem to be one of those people who get offended when other people don't like what you like.

Only 2 points tho that need to be said:

1, the zion bit was misleading, and in a second review, he cleared that bit up and apologized.

2, yes, it can be considered that neo likes kungfu...but, um...he is completely aware THE ENTIRE TIME that the sentinels are coming for Zion...SO WHY WASTE TIME? Is he really a complete [insert something mean here]? Some hero...having fun when the fate of thousands is on the line.

Ponder that.
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 6:18am

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LtMcMurphy

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LtMcMurphy wrote:

Coleridge (the great Romantic poet) told everyone in an essay to "approach poetry with a willing suspension of disbelief." I think some people need to do that here. NEVER will a movie be real life. No matter how hard film-makers try, no one will every duplicate the complexities of human nature and society. It's impossible. To point a camera onto a random couple walking down the street is not capturing real life, since there is much more to what is going on that the lense cannot see. To say that a shadow was off, or this fight seems a bit out of place, you should first say that explosions cannot be heard in outer space or Michael would never kill Fredo. Yeah, one little mistake, why don't we hate the film from now on? Come on guys, you make films, you should know this stuff.
ARG, since none of you seemed to have seen this, let me dumb it down for you, so maybe your mind can comprehend (I'll skip big things like Coleridge, Romantic, Michael and the entire Godfather reference, which was probaly only seen by me and another random board member): NEVER think movie can be real life, it is IMPOSSIBLE. STOP pointing out very minor details and saying you hated the movie becaue of it.

Besides, what has almost everyone here and abroad been trying to duplicate for over 4 years? Repetitive shooting, punching and kicking. We are all obsessed with it, and if we weren't, we'd all be at the D&D board.

And one of the main reasons you guys don't like the movie is because it's GOOD. There's always a collective of "movie buffs" that don't like certain flicks because they are just darn GOOD. Admit it fellas, take a look at Gangs Of New York, for a recent example.

Boo ya
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 6:28am

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Cypher

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Hey, I never said I didn't like the movie or that it was bad...its worthy of a second viewing from my part, so that says something.

I just think that it is an incredibly average film and the wachowski brother's steering in the wrong direction.
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 6:31am

Post 125 of 208

1007

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Hello Cypher,

If you do not recall, in your last post you stated "I guess that you are just one of those people who get offended when some one does not like what you like"(or something remotely similar to that), where you are in fact, the person who is repeatedly coming back for more and who is getting angry because he likes the film and you do not. Also, even though everyone is coming in and essentially telling you that you are wrong, they are not "flaming" you as a person, but rather your post, or opinion.

So what I suggest that you do is just leave this topic at a rest because no one person around here seems to agree with the review which you are constantly defending and I think that the machines have not yet reached Zion(if you catch my drift)(i.e. the machines are the many people that loved the film and would like to protect it and you are the one person who seems to be constantly putting it down).

.....it was a stupid analogy I know......
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 7:14am

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cantaclaro

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Ok well the guy from ain't it cool lives here in Austin...I've run into him a few times...and he is good friends with my mom and step-dad...most of his reviews are totally awesome and I can totally relate to what he is talking about but his review of Reloaded was awful...

Iceman: I totally agree with everything you have said...

Cypher: Come on man you can't have disagreed with every point that Iceman made in that post...cuz here is a fact...Zion wasn't destroyed..so your statement was a contradiction...

Canta unsure
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 9:58am

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er-no

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I completely agree with Cypher on all points made by him.
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 11:59am

Post 128 of 208

Ice_Man

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cypher - I could really care less if you "like what I like", it doesn't offend me in the least. that doesn't change the fact that I think all of the points you have made are wrong. besides, complaining that you're not going to go into because you think I'll get offended is the response of someone who knows he's got nothin'.

1. I didn't find it particularly misleading, I uderstood what was going on right away. and if he cleared up his Zion destruction mistake, props to him. I didn't go through the Ain't It Cool website, other than to read his X2 review; so I didn't even know there was a second review of 'Reloaded.

2. not being Neo, I can't vouch for the thought process that was going on in his head. I guess he felt he could still take his time and use his kung fu.
also, it's a movie. if he hadn't kung fu-d everyone, it would have quickly become a drama, which would have made it BAD.

Ponder that.


er-no - how predictable
cantaclaro - cypher corrected that mistake, which wasn't his anyway, it was the fault of the reviewer.
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 1:50pm

Post 129 of 208

sidewinder

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Why doesn't Neo just fly away? I was watching for this while the burly brwal started.

If you recall, Neo kind of has to charge up and do that little ground-ripple thing before flying. When he talked to Smith, they got him by surprise, and had their hands on him before he had any chance to do anything. Not once, until the end, did they ever give him a chance to fly away.

The agent fight at the beginning? that wasn't pointless because he had to "kill" those agents, and a few kicks to the head is the easiest way. Don't forget the problems he created when he blew up Smith.

The fight before the Oracle? The program was testing his reflexes.

The fight at the Merovingians? Like I said, he can't alter their code because they are not part of the Matrix. If he wants to keep those people from going after the keymaker (the whole point of the fight) he has to do it by hand.
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 1:59pm

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er-no

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Ice_Man wrote:


er-no - how predictable
And what exactly do you mean by that?

I am bored of this argument and all these different premises - this made me go 'I agree with what someone said' and therefore makes me predictable?

This thread has turned into boring tautology.
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 2:00pm

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Andreas

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One thing i didn't understand, did Zion became destroyed? biggrin *feeling like a dumbass*
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 4:02pm

Post 132 of 208

Coureur de Bois

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Andy, Thats what I thought at first too. No, Zion wasn't destroyed, the counter-attack against the sentinals were "slaughtered." They mentioned that the machines kept digging after the attack, if it was an attack against Zion, which it wasn't, why would they have kept digging after they slaughtered the whole city?? Hope this clears things up for you. biggrin
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 4:06pm

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Cypher

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It seems that at alamdv, i am clearly in the minority of things in this matter.

If I had nothing, than why do a fair amount of people agree with me (outside of alam). er-no seems to agree, so therefore i can't have nothing if someone agree with me.

I know i dont like using this as an example, but simply look at the reviews the film is getting. Go to rottentomatoes, it has a 75% rating, which is decent. that means that 25% of people didn't like the film all together, go argue with them. They get paid to do it.

I posted somwhere on alam that the movie would get a 7/10 (3.5/5) from me...the 7 is earned because of the extreme effort and fairly good payback on 'many' of the effects in the film. Also, the whole architect thing rules. it doesn't get the other 3 because i was actually bored through some bits. and other bits i was laughing to myself on how bad some things were. Not taking into account the architect, i never had that 'woah' moment. I never said to myself "that's amazing". I did in the first one, and I did in Ghosts of the Abyss...which gets a clean 5/5 because that truly was phenomenol.

The reason i'm getting annoyed is because of things like "no, you are wrong." Who's to say that I am wrong about not liking a fight and not seeing anything special in that? You can't. I'm pretty sure i said the same thing back to sidewinder, but that was meant as a joke to a really, really, really shitty statement.

Andreas: no, Zion is NOT destroyed at the end of reloaded (see, there must have been some confusion after all)

The wachowski bros seemed to have been more interested in the animatrix, the enter the matrix game and other side stuff to connect well into the movie, they forgot that the movie is the main aspect of matrix.
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 4:13pm

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er-no

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Yeah! Eiii!

The World Record episode of the Animatrix was superb. Clearly my favorite and I enjoyed bits of the explanation within the episodes than most of Reloaded.
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 5:31pm

Post 135 of 208

1007

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Rating: +1

Cypher,
Er-No,
I completely understand your arguments, you have a right to think that the film was boring and pointless at parts. So can we please GOD stop the arguments, its a movie.

This goes to all others who liked the movie and feel like arguing as well
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 6:50pm

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sidewinder

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Why don't you stop reading this topic? These are legitimate arguements.
Posted: Sat, 24th May 2003, 8:18pm

Post 137 of 208

Cypher

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Maddox is a genius. Don't believe me?

Read this:

http://maddox.xmission.com/matrix2.html


If anyone still wants to continue arguing, I'm using his Keanu's ass point and you will know that I'm right. wink

enjoy.
Posted: Sun, 25th May 2003, 2:39pm

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adamlightandmagic

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Man... so much negativity here. Not only that, but fanboys are really trying to trash others opinions, e.g. cypher by "1004".

When I walked out of the cinema on Thursday afternoon, my first thought was "I need to see that again" smile . The next thing was me telling people, yeh it was great and..wow. But I knew in the back of my mind something wasn't right. neutral
I also came away with a feeling that it was full of lots of stuff that could be edited out. Many others here have already mentioned the obvious rave scene rolleyes . But some others have also mentioned other parts, e.g. french guy babbling on for ages. Some of that was fun, but there was a lot that could've been removed.
I'm so sure this film could've been edited a lot tighter. Something felt wrong about some dialogue and scenes, here and there. I think Harry's outburst,
The film truly feels like an unexplored first draft that nobody ever added a suggestion to. It feels like a hyperactive version of the first film...
was very close to what I thought. I remember coming into the cinema and watching the first few minutes and thinking. What the hell is going on?? It didn't take long to realise that the first 40 mins were gonna be the hardest. The Reloaded script doesn't seem fleshed out and that's gonna come back to haunt them. Hopefully, I would like to think that they'll have the entire film re-edited as a special shorter cut. Huh, what are the chances!? rolleyes . Either that, or when I get my copy, I'm gonna re-edit it for my own viewing pleasure.

Don't tell me that my opinion is wrong! Read it, discuss it, but don't trash me for not liking this film, ok?

Adam.
Posted: Sun, 25th May 2003, 3:08pm

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MechaForce

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If you can say your opinion, then someone who's opinion is "you're wrong" can say theirs.

You're kinda contradicting yourself.
Posted: Sun, 25th May 2003, 3:26pm

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adamlightandmagic

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No it's called fairplay. Everyone is right for their own reasons. Unless something is blatently wrong. But that doesn't really attribute itself here. People love it - people thought it was just good - people hate it - and people are in two minds about it, i.e. like me...

Adam.
Posted: Sun, 25th May 2003, 6:16pm

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Ice_Man

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er-no - I apologize if that offended you, I meant to put a wink icon after it, because the moment cypher started talking, I knew you were going to agree with him; nothing was meant by that, if you read anything into it, I'm sorry. I still don't know why I didn't put a wink after it. . . . tard

cypher - I know a lot of people didn't like Matrix Reloaded. I enjoyed it, but I'm not a freakishly huge fan of it, either. But all the things you said you hated about it, were pretty much all the parts I thought they did right.
since everyone seems to be sick of us going back and forth about this, we pretty much just need to leave it rest. suffice to say that I think you're wrong, just as much as you think I'm wrong.
But totally, if I never see his ass again, I'll be a happy man biggrin
that doesn't mean that I think that maddox is a genius, mind you wink , but he does have a point there. . . .
you know, overall cypher, you have made 2 points that I agree with this topic : keanu's buttocks; and

cypher wrote:

Who's to say that I am wrong
the problem is, I've never said you were wrong.

adamlightandmagic - 'fairplay'? what? is someone cheating? razz
Posted: Sun, 25th May 2003, 8:22pm

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curran

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Rating: +3

The parts where Neon is flying 'supposedly represents his expression of freedom and to show him as a God in the Matrix.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 1:02am

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Cypher

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I was referring to what Sidewinder said already about me being wrong.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 1:32am

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sidewinder

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oh, but you are.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 1:32am

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sidewinder

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wee, a red lightsaber!
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 1:36am

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Cypher

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But I'm not. If I was, then I'd agree with you.

Yes red...but short. I shall call you...shorty! Or Sidey. Whichever fits better.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 2:36am

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sidewinder

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Have you ever actually thought about how weird of a nickname that is? Sidey?
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 11:28am

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Cypher

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No, not really.
Posted: Thu, 29th May 2003, 11:59pm

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Sollthar

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The lazy sheep is coming too.


I watched Matrix Reloaded yesterday and all in all I found it - wich is something that I didn't expect - pretty boring... crazy
The visuals we're great in places ("in places", in other places they looked a little out of place).
What I really liked was agent smith. Agent smith is the coolest character in the whole matrix films, by far... cool

I thought the Actionsequences were by far too long. I really truly got bored, and that allthough it was visually great. But after watching Morphius ALMOST fall of that Truck for the tenth time I started looking on my watch. I couldn't feel with the action. It was just... and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one...


All in all entertaining film. But with too mutch pathos for my taste.

6 out of 10 (and that mainly for visuals)
Posted: Fri, 30th May 2003, 12:15am

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sidewinder

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You know why it was boring? Because the characters were never threatened. We knew Neo wasn't going to die when kung-fooing all those bad dudes. No one could touch him, because he is "The One", so all those fights are kind of a forgone conclusion. I really think it would have been a better film had Trinity actually dies. I mean, it was like


Neo: "Noooooo, you've been shot! I must try to save you by getting the bullet"

*Neo gets the bullet*

Trinity: "Gasp, Neo I-"

*Trinity dies*

Neo: "Oops, let me try that again..."



neutral



Can't you see how it would have been better had Neo realized that even with his powers, he still can't save the one he loves? Yeah, I know that sounds cheesy. Maybe it would have been cooler with Neo going all berzerker on everyone. twisted
Posted: Fri, 30th May 2003, 12:22am

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Simon K Jones

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Yeah, by having both Neo and Trinity magically escape death, they've basically removed any kind of sense of tension or fear from the action sequences.

Of course, maybe they're just lulling us into a false sense of security before doing some nasty things in Revolutions. smile
Posted: Fri, 30th May 2003, 12:23am

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Sollthar

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Yes, you're right there Sidewinder! I never felt like "oh, maybe one of the characters is going to die in that fight" and thats one reason I found it boring.

But it wasn't just that. I thought the actionscenes we're allthough cool just too long. The Neo vs 100 Smiths for example. When the battle started (after what I thought was the coolest and most me,orable dialogue int hat whole film, especially the "I was set free" - "well, congratulations" - "Thank you" part) I was totally impressed and feelt like whoooooo... but than after 3 minutes I got bored, it was always the same.


The actionscenes we're just too long and the "story" (wich I wasn't impressed with much) was too short.
Posted: Sat, 31st May 2003, 6:27pm

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TAP2

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i dozed off during one fight lol

I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but although the music by Rob Dougan is good - i thought it made the kung-fu fights seem very slow paced. They could have used more energetic music.

The NEO Vs 100 smiths, I thought it had a poor beggining and about 45 seconds of "jaw dropping" stuff.
Posted: Sat, 31st May 2003, 10:49pm

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Mellifluous

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Hmm, most of the reviews of the Matrix Reloaded are negative ones. I think it's time for a positive one!

I thought it was actually quite good. People have criticised it for having action, then mindless philosophic babble, then more action, but I think this criticism is over the top. Isn't this what we wanted? And I for one found the philosophising interesting and relevant, especially about pre-determination and causality.

The music has also been slammed, but I thought it was rather good. The orchestral bits, anyway. I'm a bit tired of these rave tracks which all sound the same but it's still not bad. The chase track - Mona Lisa Overdrive - is one of the best filmscore tracks I've heard and I'll listen to it plenty of times. Other pieces are good too, and one reflects a Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon influence on the film as a whole (Teahouse).

The action scenes - well...I agree some were maybe overlong, but they're like nothing we've ever seen before, and remember that this is the Matrix, anything can happen and you have to suspend disbelief because what occurs is only limited by the imagination of those who can manipulate it e.g. Neo and the agents.

Overall, I think it was a very interesting film and I think the negative reviews come mainly from people's dislike of where the Matrix films are now going, or their lack of understanding. Because in the film our understanding of what is Matrix and what is reality is really tested. It's actually now blurred. People want Neo to be in control and now it seems that he isn't. What happens next is not predictable. Maybe the Matrix Reloaded poses too many questions, but I think it's a good thing because that's what makes it a trilogy, each film shouldn't be an open-and-shut case. The first film ended too neatly, and in this the Wachowski brothers have left some laces untied. Me like. razz
Posted: Sun, 1st Jun 2003, 1:38am

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Kyeju

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I thought the film was great overall. The begining of the movie was pretty slow but I liked how neo's first fight was not all that impressive and you were like...hmm why doesnt he just stand there and punch and kick them effortlessly like in the hallway...but then he shoots up into the air and flys down in a tornado fury. I thought it really showed how powerful neo had become without making him look too powerful in the beggining.

BUT I thought the Zion rave/orgy was somewhat unnessesary. I know that the wachos (lol) had to show neo and trinity were like all out for eachother but it just didnt seem right to me...

The Burly Brawl...this part of the movie really fulfilled my hopes. I was thinking it was going to be alot shorter but I think it was just long enought for me not to get bored. Oh yea and the fench post part was kickin'.

All action from here on is ok. Where the two trucks crash was DOPE.

Morpheus' speech to the rebels in the attack was edited in an awesome manner I thought. He was talking alot more quiet in this one. Morpheus' speech to zion was gay tho.

Colonel Sanders part was SLOOOOOOW.

Neo flying out of the exploding building and where he catches trinity was my favorite part of the movie. Where he just sortof bursts out in speed just gave me shivers it was so cool.

Also where neo stops the machines was really cool.

CLIFFHANGER

I think that they should wait and release reloaded and revo both on one dvd cause they are together one big movie.

9/10

cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool
Posted: Sun, 1st Jun 2003, 5:28pm

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Cypher

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I hate that highway chase music...that's what killed the scene for me. I am not a fan of that techno crap shit, but this was way too bad. The orchestral bits on the other hand (by don davis and what was used in the first one) are great. They should have used that more throughout...or just gotten less techno crap sounding music.
Posted: Sun, 1st Jun 2003, 5:51pm

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Ice_Man

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now you're talking cypher! I think that's where we were having the biggest problems! we were both saying we thought it was bad, but not why we thought it was bad, now some of the things you said make a lot more sense to me.
Posted: Sun, 1st Jun 2003, 7:41pm

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Bob Page

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I found the matrix revolution trailer : http://media01.cgchannel.com/videobin/matrix_revolution/matrix-revolutions.mpg

(13mb)
Posted: Sun, 1st Jun 2003, 8:10pm

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Aculag

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That's from the end of enter the matrix.
Posted: Sun, 1st Jun 2003, 8:21pm

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TAP2

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theres a much better one at the end of reloaded.

just wait an extra 45 mins (lol) for the credits and you'll se an awesome revolutions advert (longer and better than that one)
Posted: Sun, 1st Jun 2003, 8:35pm

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Sollthar

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Seriously.... Is anyone in here leaving the cinema BEFORE the endcredits are up?

I think thats a matter of honor - especially from filmmakers - to stay until the endcredits are over, no matter what film or if theres something after them or not.
Posted: Sun, 1st Jun 2003, 8:59pm

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Simon K Jones

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If I'm by myself watching a film, I always watch the full credits. If I'm at a cinema with a bunch of friends it can be tricky, because people want to leave. I always make sure I watch them once I get the film on DVD though. smile

Watching Reloaded's credits was quite a painful experience, due to the insanely loud music.

Trickiest credit-watching experience I've had is with the Fellowship of the Ring extended edition, because they go on for about 20 minutes! I think I left them playing and enjoyed the music while doing something else. smile
Posted: Sun, 1st Jun 2003, 9:08pm

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Aculag

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I always stay for the credits. Unless I've seen the film already once, then I might leave before they're over. But there's always something I want to find out or something in the credits.
Posted: Sun, 1st Jun 2003, 9:25pm

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Exclamation

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The matrix reloaded ones are so full, I am sure i saw the assistant director's car driver's map reader's map fetching guy's assistant.

Tarn wrote:

Trickiest credit-watching experience I've had is with the Fellowship of the Ring extended edition, because they go on for about 20 minutes! I think I left them playing and enjoyed the music while doing something else.
Doing what exactly? eek
Posted: Sun, 1st Jun 2003, 9:44pm

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Sollthar

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Hehe, yeah, I know what you mean about the friends tarn. But in that matter I am absolutely not able for a compromise... smile

Maybe you know the "driver-sickness", when normal, friendly people become aggressive a-holes when they drive a car...
I have the "cinema-sickness". If anyone dares to talk during a movie or forces me to leave the cinema before the credits are up I get really aggressive, no matter if friend or foe... and I take no prisoners evil



Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2009, 6:01pm

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Terminal Velocity

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I realize I'm a bit...a lot...late to this movie, and in advance I'm sorry if this post wasn't a good idea, but I really want to review it. All the good movies were before my time. razz

I saw this film before the other two, and all I can say is that I was psyched throughout the entire movie. Every fight scene was brilliantly executed and each one was different in its own way, managing to keep up what I consider an astounding level of momentum throughout the film. Obviously, I didn't fully understand the idea of the Matrix, but what I expected was a very good action film and I got an excellent action film.

That being said, there are negative points: glaring ones. For one thing, as many have pointed out the characters lost a lot of their depth in Reloaded. Neo changed from a burgeoning hero to some kind of implacable King Fu. He was utterly invincible. Plus, he could fly. I found this very reminiscent of Superman, and I hate Superman. I really wish he was a bit more...human. They could really have left out the flying bit. It kind of messed up Neo for me. Trinity...was retarded anyway, so I don't care. Morpheus was really cool throughout, but I still like him better in the first film.

Secondly, I thought the plot was a bit confused. Again, I hadn't seen the first one so maybe my judgement was tainted, but the first half of the movie seemed just a long string of fistfights (albeit really cool ones) with no definite purpose to them other than to show how Neo's power is leaving the Agents' in the dust, and Smith is able to copy himself zillions of times. In fact, the plot in general was a lot weaker in this one. As a standalone film, this would bomb.

Neo bringing Trinity back to life was...sissyish. Yes, the movie was very cool, but I mean, come on guys. Squeezing and unsqueezing her heart isn't going to bring her back to life. She's dead, so get over it. If they needed Trinity alive (and they did), they shouldn't have allowed her to die in the first place. Because it was that final touch that made Neo totally invincible. Which is completely uncool. A few surgeons in the nick of time would have done just as well.

However, I think I can see the reason for these mistakes. I'm sure that Reloaded's primary purpose was to show how much more powerful Neo and Smith were both getting; how they were almost totally invincible, thereby building up until the final clash in Revolutions. It definitely kept me on the edge and slavering to see Revolutions. I think they did this really well.

The lines were very, very good. I would give Hugo Weaving applause for how good Smith was. Normally, two minutes of talking before a battle would make me say, "Oh no. Not more macho exchanges," but what he said and the way he was saying it really made me like that touch. "I killed you, Mr. Anderson, I watched you die...with a certain satisfaction, I might add." I loved it. Of the movies I've seen, very few top it in cool one-liners.

Overall, I'd give this movie--all things considered--a 7/10.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2009, 8:43pm

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ben3308

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Rating: +1

Aaaaand the award for less-than-deftly bridging a six year gap in an old thread goes to....

biggrin
Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2009, 11:12pm

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TheOutlawAmbulance

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I wanted that award! Nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! Now that we are all talking about it in the 3rd Movie Revelutions what does the end part with the little girl mean. I knoe she is a program but the sky thing she painted I just don't get! What could this mean?
Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2009, 11:33pm

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Staff Only

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It was a tribute to Neo. What's not to get? She can make the sky look sentimental so why not?
Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2009, 11:42pm

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TheOutlawAmbulance

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No I mean is her program meant to paint the sky because I don't know many little girls that can paint skys.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2009, 11:51pm

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Staff Only

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Yes. It's been a while since I saw Revolutions, but as far as I remember that was part of her function in The Matrix. She abused her position "For Neo" as she said it herself.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2009, 11:52pm

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TheOutlawAmbulance

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Oh ok thanks. I watched that 3 times and didn't get it or hear it.
Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2009, 11:58pm

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Staff Only

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No problem. smile

EDIT: Since this seemed to be gnawing at you so much I looked her up for you.

Here's everything there is to know about Sati.

MOD: Fixed it thanks. Ben was right about the parenthesis so I changed the link slightly.

Last edited Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 12:24pm; edited 3 times in total.

Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 12:23am

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ben3308

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Either paste the link straight up, or include it in the [url="link"] tag; the latter allowing you to hyperlink text.

Like this, except I don't believe hash tags or parenthesis are allowed in BBCode, so this will direct to the broad Matrix entry.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 12:56am

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Terminal Velocity

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BBCode varies on different forums, I've noticed...

I would always post straight links before I figured out. Yeah, but basically it goes:

[url=insert link here]like this[/url].

I'm going to be posting on the LOTR threads too, eventually.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 12:58am

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TheOutlawAmbulance

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ben3308 wrote:

Either paste the link straight up, or include it in the [url="link"] tag; the latter allowing you to hyperlink text.

Like this, except I don't believe hash tags or parenthesis are allowed in BBCode, so this will direct to the broad Matrix entry.
Thanks and he means either just paste the link as it is or do what Richard said for a complicated but more cleaner look.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 1:06am

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ben3308

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What Richard said won't work for Wikipedia links - the code for parenthesis and hashtags doesn't process, so it won't work.

Also, please don't post in these old threads. I'm not going to negative you for them, but everyone knows the ups and downs of these movies backwards and forwards. There's not a whole lot of 'new' to add to the has-been conversation.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 1:51am

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Aculag

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ben3308 wrote:

Also, please don't post in these old threads.
FYI, since it's resurrection, you have posted in this thread once more than Richard III. smile
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 2:15am

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Terminal Velocity

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I thought over this before posting, and I think these threads are started so that everyone can express their opinion of the movie without randomly posting all over the forums. From what I've seen, this is not a discussion of facts: how technically accomplished the film was and such, but each person's individual opinion of the movie. Now, if I started a new thread on it, that would be another story, but I didn't. The fact that these topics were posted years ago doesn't mean new posts are redundant. IMHO, keeping topics like these up should be encouraged, so that we can all express our opinion, instead of only the users lucky enough to be around in '03. You follow me?
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 2:27am

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TheOutlawAmbulance

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Richard III wrote:

I thought over this before posting, and I think these threads are started so that everyone can express their opinion of the movie without randomly posting all over the forums. From what I've seen, this is not a discussion of facts: how technically accomplished the film was and such, but each person's individual opinion of the movie. Now, if I started a new thread on it, that would be another story, but I didn't. The fact that these topics were posted years ago doesn't mean new posts are redundant. IMHO, keeping topics like these up should be encouraged, so that we can all express our opinion, instead of only the users lucky enough to be around in '03. You follow me?
Yea I'm glad you brought this forum back up! Aren't we supposed to be encouraged, otherwise I wouldn't have ever seen this. Thank you for bringing it back up Richard.

Speak the truth!
Onto the movie this was even more epic than the first! My favorite scene was when the Smiths fought Neo in the park! AWESOME!!! I love this movie and because of it I will be making my own (kinda like a...) Matrix movie or something similar. I thought they mixed the music together quite nicely and this movie gave me a whole different perspective on effects, sound FX, and music all blending together. I love the Matrix triligy and it is even number 1 out of every of movie I have seen. I liked the keymaster part too.

We are ressuerecting one forum at a time-Storm
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 4:08am

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Terminal Velocity

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The first was definitely more solid, and I think more of a memorable film than Reloaded, but the effects to me were far better in Reloaded.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 5:07am

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Atom

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Is this really happening? I mean, really?

Well, then I'm resurrecting a Sanjaya or 2004 Election thread; nothing like bringing back up long dead conversation!
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 9:32am

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No Respite Productions

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Is someone holding a gun up to your head, making you read these threads?

No, so leave 'em to it and just ignore this thread. They're not hurting anyone and not breaking any of the rules as far as I know.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 11:45am

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ben3308

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Richard III wrote:

From what I've seen, this is not a discussion of facts: how technically accomplished the film was and such, but each person's individual opinion of the movie.
Oh, this is absolutely true. But considering how vast the Matrix franchise took over the world when it was released, and the sheer volume of opinions that were heard at its release, most have already heard (pretty much) everything there is to hear about the Matrix. Complaints about the protagonist's invincibility, etc - it just goes without saying. Like answering the question about the sky - you know that that did not have to be answered on FXhome, because 90% of us knew the answer already. The other 10% could easily Google it.

The reason I'm against bringing up threads like this is because these films are not old enough to be marked as 'classics' yet (well, maybe the first Matrix) but are still relatively large objects of pop culture; and are therein significant enough for the majority of the body politic to know most of what has been said about them. As such, they've 'come and gone' and the time to talk about them - at least in this forum - is over. We've moved past it.

To me, basically, this would be like if you revived Aculag's "Lazy Sunday" thread chronicling the first of the SNL Digital Shorts. Yes, we get it, it's funny. Yes, it's a change of pace for SNL. But it happened 4 years ago, and we already know about it. Everyone does. So move on.

I hope I'm making sense here, as I've stated countless times in the past, my intent is not to target you, directly, just for the sake of being an asshole.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 11:55am

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Sollthar

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Rating: +3

Ignore the wannabe-moderator comments clogging up the forums telling you where to post and where not to post. You're perfectly free to post your opinion on an old thread - especially since it's a film review thread and not some question asked 5 years ago. No one's forced to read them if they don't wish to.

Any other addition to this tiresome debate will be moderated, so don't bother.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 12:15pm

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ben3308

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When Neo flies it was so cool. Who else remembers that part? And the guy that played Link, apparently he's supposed to be a key character on the show 'Lost', which airs on ABC if any of you guys have heard of it.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 4:30pm

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TheOutlawAmbulance

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ben3308 wrote:

When Neo flies it was so cool. Who else remembers that part? And the guy that played Link, apparently he's supposed to be a key character on the show 'Lost', which airs on ABC if any of you guys have heard of it.
I didn't know that! Cool fact! I do think that some of the flying like in the Superhero short was better than the first because I wasn't very convinced in the first one. With $500 FXhome created Visionlab which can do the gunshots Greenscreening and everything while they had to hire many people just to create 1 effect. Well Sollthar, Axeman, Tarn, and much more could do that effect single-handedly. I'm not saying that the effect wasn't good but I wasn't as convinced as the stuff they do here which looks Real!
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 4:54pm

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Terminal Velocity

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I really like it when he's flying after Trinity and the windows are exploding inward. Obviously, someone's going very fast. However I didn't like it when Neo just grabbed Morpheus and Keymaker and zoomed them away from the explosion. Granted, there weren't many options for that particular scene, but maybe they could have at least gotten a bad burn?
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 9:27pm

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TheOutlawAmbulance

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That would have added a cool twist like if he grabs Morpheus but he (NEO) got a bad burn saving them. Showing some sacrifice? That sounds good.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 9:37pm

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Atom

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Rating: -5

The only people on these forums any more are you four, and you're all exhaustively annoying.

I told you I'd leave, now I am. I'll return when things return to their natural state, once we've got some growth and diversity of opinion in this place again, and it isn't overrun by 14-year-olds and a single moderator so frustratingly obtuse.

Goodbye, for now.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 9:53pm

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B3N

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Wait...Atom's left? Finally? God! Finally!
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 10:00pm

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Terminal Velocity

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Atom wrote:

The only people on these forums any more are you four, and you're all exhaustively annoying.
And what, exactly, do you think is hindering us from dishing out insults on you? It's a concept called decency. Maybe you should try it sometime. wink Also, you have proudly proclaimed before that you only neg people when they're off topic. Well, you're off topic. So I negged you.

Finally: I think a small minority of us are upset that you're leaving, for the very reason that you're leaving; you have a low tolerance level and can't help insulting whatever doesn't definitively agree with you. You seem to think if you have an opinion, it should be inscribed on stone right next to the Ten Commandments and no one can dare to argue with it. Nobody likes that attitude. So don't think your leaving is going to affect me any.

I didn't want to be rude, but I'm not going to sugarcoat my words just to sound polite.
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 10:02pm

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No Respite Productions

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Thank f***
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 10:57pm

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ben3308

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B3N wrote:

Wait...Atom's left? Finally? God! Finally!
Rest assured, Atom's departures are like Madonna. In about three months he'll come back to 're-invent himself', and we'll be stuck with him again. biggrin

Now if only he'd go back to his old avatar that doesn't look like me....
Posted: Sat, 6th Jun 2009, 11:09pm

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B3N

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Hah, well to be honest...his personality may have left us but his image will always stay if you stay Ben wink
Posted: Sun, 7th Jun 2009, 12:21am

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Terminal Velocity

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Got negged. Idk why, unless I was off topic too...I kept reminding myself not to do that! razz

Anyway...

I can't help but be impressed every time I watch the Burly Brawl. While it was not one of the most exciting scenes in the series, I think its very nature is what makes that fight memorable. How many movies have a ton of clones fighting unarmed against one super-guy with a metal pole? None. It's hilarious, really.
Posted: Mon, 8th Jun 2009, 8:58am

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Simon K Jones

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Rating: +2

As Sollthar indicated, while there have been a few nooby posts of late, this is nothing new and is, in fact, welcome. Communities thrive on newcomers, and not all of them are going to fit in right away. The trick is to welcome them, give them a drink, and show them how everything works.

Or you could go down the Atom and (less so) Ben3308 route and hassle them continuously in a tediously irritating, elitist manner. It's not the young newcomers that are stifling debate round here, guys: it's you, wading into every topic like you own the place.

Richard III is perfectly entitled to reply to this topic. If other people are interested in the topic then they'll respond as well. If nobody else is interested in Matrix anymore, then the topic will quickly disappear again.

That, you see, is how these forums work. The only time the system breaks is when people post in every topic about how they dislike the topic.

Anyway, moving along.
Posted: Mon, 8th Jun 2009, 9:06am

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ben3308

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Richard III is perfectly entitled to reply to this topic.
Well, duh. But just because someone is entitled to do something doesn't necessitate them doing it. I'm not (precisely) referencing this instance, just the flaw in that logic.

The only time the system breaks is when people post in every topic about how they dislike the topic.
I, for one, would dissent to say that if everyone had the same opinion of a topic, it wouldn't be interesting at all! biggrin

But hey, if you see me hassling newer members for the sake of hassle and being irate, by all means call me on it, I welcome the criticism. Though I assure you, that's not my intended route - nor do I think it is my taken one. If you think my comments are accusatory, directed at people for the sake of singling them out, or inappropriately-worded, again, by all means notify me of it. As for ratings - it's not often I give out negatives, and I have been completely transparent about my actions and reasoning whenever I do deal them.

Likewise, if my posts sound 'like I own the place', or I have some forum precedent that others don't - please point me to them, and I'll edit them gladly. All I have ever tried to do is express my opinion in a reasonable and collected manner. Anything in excess of that is purely for the sake of comedy. biggrin
Posted: Mon, 8th Jun 2009, 5:18pm

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TheOutlawAmbulance

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Thanks for saying that Tarn. It doesn't matter how old any of us are if we like the Matrix then why not talk about it? I think that we are entitled to our opinion and our age doesn't make a difference. In fact from day 1 to now when I got here I have been taking crap from Atom and I am tired of it. If we want to talk about the Matrix then why don't we? I don't care what Atom says and even if I am young that doesn't title him to "rule" these forums just because he's older. Back to the subject...

Richard III wrote:

I can't help but be impressed every time I watch the Burly Brawl. While it was not one of the most exciting scenes in the series, I think its very nature is what makes that fight memorable. How many movies have a ton of clones fighting unarmed against one super-guy with a metal pole? None. It's hilarious, really.
If you pause the movie (on DVD of course) in the middle of the brawl you can see one guy that is hit fly through a window and the other guy hit out of the park.
Posted: Mon, 8th Jun 2009, 6:35pm

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bartman

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I didn't care much for "Reloaded" on my initial viewing. I think part of that was because I was expecting it to be brillant like the first, but it didn't achieve that level for me. I've mellowed a bit to it since and don't think it is as bad, but overall not my favorite.

I felt the first fight scene with the pole was way to long and way to computer generated. The freeway chase was great. Enjoyed the action there.

It just seemed like the movie got lost in its own story towards the end.

The last one I liked more, but still couldn't help but feel that there was never much of an idea for a part 2 and 3 in the first place. It seemed to me that it was almost a case of making the first, having a hit, then having to flesh out some so-so ideas on the rest of it.

Overall, the trilogy didn't do it for me as much as I had hoped.

Bart

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