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Whats with the sudden rush of copies?

Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 3:08am

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Obi

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<rant>

With each major release of a blockbuster film, suddenly everyone copies the effects, wants exact scenes that are in [the movie] and it's beginning to get up my nose. All the 'How do we do bullet time?' 'How do we clone people like they do with Agent Smith in The Matrix?' (Excluding Aculag who actually did a fantastic job) 'I need Terminator 3 plugins for my never-to-be-finished fad-film'

Admittedly, the whole point of the Alam community is fan-films (Especially of the Star Wars kind), but at least be original!

</rant>
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 3:26am

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OneDanShow

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Rating: +1

That's the point of the movies, to present a 2 hour slice of fictional life that ends up happy by the conclusion. Special effects rip offs are just fun and entertaining because we get to view ourselves doing stuff otherwise impossible in real life. Who wouldn't want to put themselves in the movies, or at least try?

-Daniel
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 3:31am

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BackOfTheHearse

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Rating: +2

An "Orginal Fan Film" is a statement that is a complete oxymoron. There are always two sides to this... For instance, you decide to make a Matrix fan film. Let's say you don't have Neo, Morpheus, Trinity, Agent Smith, etc. Let's say you invent some neat ways of doing effects similar to the movies, yet you make a tangent storyline all your own.

Sure, you will get people like, "That's good, man!"

But also, you will get people who say you're doing it all wrong. Where does the artistic freedom turn into something being "incorrect"?

It really irks me when someone bashes someone for a Matrix copy... Saying, "Be original!" yet also saying, "Fix the bullet trails, they don't look like they should." Like they "should"!?. Pardonnez-moi, but you're basing that on the movie. So much for originality, right?

The universes of the The Matrix and Star Wars are reserved completely for the imagination. The only ones who can judge right and wrong are the imagineers themselves. But even then, it's all opinion and can be twisted to fit the mold. If what everyone did was "wrong" then the fan film would not exist in any form whatsoever.

Did the first filmmaker to say, "Look at the lightsaber I put into my movie! It's just like in Star Wars!" get bashed for unoriginality? If so, I pity the ego of the one who bashed him, for that filmmaker started a revolution of Amazing, beautiful, frightening, witty, humorous, fantastic, sensationalized unoriginal works of art which dominate much of this website's cinema.

Sollthar made an amazing Matrix bullet time shot. Then he wrote us a complimentary tutorial. Was he wrong? Hell no. He was a helpful artist wanting to push the bar once again. He's a genius in that respect, I think. A genius without originality? So be it. Serve me up another damn helping of lavishly-copied fan films... I am hungry for more.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 3:40am

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Obi

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(1) Um, nitroviper007, re-read my post before flaming. I was talking about movies here in general, and only reminded the reader that this community is for fan-films and that I should be aware of it.

It really irks me when someone bashes someone for a Matrix copy... Saying, "Be original!" yet also saying, "Fix the bullet trails, they don't look like they should." Like they "should"!?. Pardonnez-moi, but you're basing that on the movie. So much for originality, right?
I was talking about originality in the sence of storyline and creativity. Again, did I mention Matrix fan-films? Refer to part 1 if necessary.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 3:51am

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BackOfTheHearse

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A person "clones Agent Smith" and uses bullet time with the intent of a fan-film of some sort. So yes, you essentially did say fan-films. Did you know that some 60% of movies were based on some sort of pre-existing knowledge? In other words, 60% of all movies have their roots in a novel, a short story, a legend, a myth, another movie. So less than half of movies can be technically classified as "original". And when you get into "copies" then yes, it becomes more. It becomes a fan-film. It's truly hard to do anything original these days, so don't bash. Also, you are NOT the only person I was referring to, anyway. There are plenty of others here who got their start for the sole reason that they wanted lightsabers and bullet time in their films, and now they feel they've risen above that and take the time to poke the eyes out of those who do what they themselves did and continue to do. I admit it, I am a friggin copy-cat. But you know what? Who cares? In the long run, it's not going to hurt anything, and I truly enjoy seeing what people can do with a simple computer and camera, copy or no copy.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 3:52am

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voiceoverwizard

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Rating: +1

As I said earlier today in the ALAMDV chatroom: that is the fun of this, we see what they did with their multi-million dollar budgets and latest High tech hardware and software and then we take our little $300-$3000 DV cams and our $500-$5000 computers with our little software and see if we can fnd a away to do what they did. If we can then we show it off and share with the rest of the community how we did it. What would be, or dare I say WILL be really COOL is when we create a film that features many of these effects, old and new, in the context of a real plot, with reasonably good acting(or at least a director who isn't afraid to say let's do it again till we get it right).
Perhaps this is an Idea just for fun
WE could create several small groups(likely of people in similar geographic areas) have the "first group start a plot write the first scene and then send the script on to the next group for them to write the second scene and so on... Then when the script is complete do the same thing for the filming and editing. In the end combine them all into one "seemless" movie.
crazy Eh! Maybe would be better to have one scene and just let several groups create the same scene from the same script and see how they compare.
I don't know maybe I am rambling redface . But as Led Zepplin said RAMBLE ON!
My point being that this is fun OBI!
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 5:47am

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Aculag

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If anyone was paying attention... I said that EXACT thing earlier in a post where someone was asking about cloning themselves or something for a "burly brawl" type fight."

If some people had an ounce of creativity in their heads, this generation of filmmakers would be a lot better off. Sure maybe you want to pick up your camera and film your buddies acting stiff and lifeless (because, you know, that's how everyone in the matrix acts) and then add some shoddy effects, but seriously. Maybe you should think up an original idea for once. I say, enough of this jumping on the bandwagon. None of the great filmmakers of today got to where they are by doing something everyone else had already done. The Wachowski brothers are a perfect example. They did something revolutionary (kinda) in the matrix, and then everyone else tried to copy it.

Hey! As long as we're on the subject of people jumping on the bandwagon... How's about hollywood? "OOOH!! X-men was a great success!" Not Long After.... "Ok, Spiderman was also a huge success... I see a pattern formulating... If I make a comic book movie, it will be success!!" Then here comes the manure truck! The Hulk is going to suck. The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen is going to suck more.
My rambling will not cease!

Anyway, I'm trying to make the same point as Obi here, and say, "Come on, people! Grab a pen and a pad of paper, turn off your dvd player and turn on your brain, and start thinking up some original Ideas."

I want to see cool effects in movies as much as the next guy, but I don't want to see them used in the same old stuff over and over again. I don't want to see more matrix movies. I want to see people trying to use similar effects in different ways. I want to see more revolutionaries.

And justinsane, it IS fun, yes. I have a hell of a lot of fun sitting in front of After Effects for hours trying to figure stuff out, but just because it's fun and it's cool, doesn't mean you have to put it in a Matrix ripoff. Put a ripple behind a home run baseball! Put it behind the hot dog the cook just threw at you at your family barbecue (I'm exaggerating! biggrin ) But come ON! At least someone started this thread and I know I'm not the only one who's pissed off at people doing the same things over and over again.

Effects are cool. Bad movies with stolen ideas are not. Making movies is fun. Making movies with stolen ideas and stale plotlines is unnecessary.

And, I'm SPENT!
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 7:36am

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Rawree

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Some people might just want Matrix-style effects in their films without copying them to the letter. So they might want clones of themselves fighting each other and the best way to describe the effect they want is to refer to The Matrix Reloaded so people may just be getting inspiration from films and applying them to an original situation.
Then again Solthar had clones of himself fighting in The Test way before The Matrix Reloaded came out.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 9:04am

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TAP2

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NO ONE here currently have the skills or technology to create a scene similar to Burly Brawl... I welcome someone to prove me wrong.

I was watching a making of the matrix, and Joel Silver explained, the wachowksi bros we're sick of seeing useless attempts to copy their effects in other movies. Even films like SHREK had similar effects.
Therefore, they wanted an effect which would take far too long to do for any other films - that is if the producers knew how to do it.
This is why Burly Brawl came about, and thats why without frame by frame copying and pasting and one hell of a lot of time - none of us will be able to do that.

And BE ORIGIONAL, don't just copy the same effects in the films. There must be millions of nice looking tricks we can achieve.. u just gotta SIT DOWN and USE YOUR BRAIN.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 11:07am

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Obi

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Nice to see some people are arguing their points and agreeing with some of the things I said. Thanks Aculag, TAP2.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 11:52am

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TAP2

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i was dissapointed when i saw reloaded because they used an effect i was going to use...

I wanted to make it so when someone got shot, they turned invisible and ripples formed where the bullets supposedly hit them.. I had this all planned, but they did it in the matrix reloaded sad

I do agree with Obi, stop asking things the whole time and think for yourself...

*** I know i've posted a lot asking for advice on minidisks/tvs e.t.c But that isn't creativity.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 11:59am

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anonymous

there are too many fan films... its getting old. mad mad Wut i think is that ppl should think of new things, plots, fx...etc. If u had a good plot and added the bullettime camera move the movie would be better than if no plot at all and a bullet time use. Make a original script and put your own FX in it. Only do the bullet time thing unless you can do it. But i think that RELOADED was a waste of my time. I was disapointed. rolleyes Too many FX reused over and over. As my dad allways would say, "Less is More". Hope some people will agree.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 12:22pm

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TAP2

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that is a very good point.

I'm sick of watching the same thing over and over.
Especially Lighsabre test 1.... I hope FXHOME cinema ONLY shows proper movies.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 1:09pm

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anonymous

i am glad that sum one agrees with me... lol
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 2:19pm

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Kyeju

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I think we need at least a few guidelines for the movies posted on FXhome.com. One major thing being about lightsaber tests, because as excited as they may be no body wants to see them.

But about the fanfilms thing. I believe that when I watch a movie there are things that I will look at say "Wow that was sweet I want to do that!" but if I want to make a movie even if it has an origional plot people will be like "Get your own concepts." Tell that to george lucas. He practically ripped the opening crawl right off flash gordon, and the jedi is ripped off of the seventh samauri so Star Wars is like a fanfilm but presented in a different way. So, if someone makes a Matrix, or Star Wars fanfilm they just want to expand upon ideas. Anyone can say a Matrix or Starwars fanfilm sucks because most of the ones out there do. But if they are done correctly with a good plot/fx/acting dont go and flame them just because its the matrix or star wars.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 3:02pm

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TAP2

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there should definately be guidelines for films.

Read

I DO NOT WANT TO DISENCOURAGE ANYONE from making test films. But you must understand, you may feal really impressed with yourself.... but you WILL come to realise that it's very basic stuff. Therefore, don't bother uploading test clips...
Research, do tests, get some friends round.. make a film, have a beer and enjoy yourselves.

I've done hundreds of test clips, ranging from muzzle flashes to walking through walls - then, when it comes to making the film i know EXACTLY what i'm doing.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 4:48pm

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BackOfTheHearse

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Rating: +4

Well, here's the thing... You say you're sick of watching the same thing over and over... in all reality, it's because you've been here awhile. Those who get here, discover the program, try it out and want some kind of reaction post their "Lightsaber Test #194,757,628" with hopes of some objective reviewing. What they get is flamed. They get flamed because people are "sick of seeing the same thing again" when this person posted it for the first time. I have a feeling that many of us are turning people away from filmmaking because of what we say about their movies. It's the same story many times:

Noob: "Hi, I just bought AlamDV and I have never made a movie before. I just wanted to test out my lightsabers, tell me what you think!"

TheGoodGuy: "Hey dude. I just watched your movie. How about trying to lower the glow a bit since you're outdoors, and maybe making the clashes last only one frame instead of two. Nice attempt, though."

TheBadGuy: "Dude, that SUCKS. Why don't you do something original for once? I don't need to see another lightsaber test, it's getting really old."


Tell me if I am wrong, but isn't that just rude? To bash someone for your own anger about something? That's like you eating chocolate ice cream every day for a month at your school. After awhile, you start to not really like chocolate ice cream anymore. Then you move to a different town, and you get a chocolate ice cream your first day at the new school. "What is this crap? It sucks! I am SICK of this crap! Come out with something new!" Yet, it's not their fault that you've developed a pet peeve to it. The same goes here... look at everything with an open mind. Some of the greatest future filmmakers in the world could have been shot down because they were 12 years old and posted a lightsaber test clip. Think about it... Mini-Tarantino is now gone. "Good Riddance," you may say... Well, if you really feel that way, I do pity you.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 5:06pm

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moebius

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Right on, Nitro (+1) - proud of ya biggrin
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 6:32pm

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davlin

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edited

Last edited Mon, 26th May 2003, 6:36pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 6:33pm

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davlin

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Me too."nitro"....+1

O'l Dav
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 6:51pm

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Aculag

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Nitro, that's a good point. But there are so many other effects that people could use. I have made a lightsaber fight. But mine is different from the others because it has a plot, I explain why the good guy is looking for the bad guy, and it has a twist ending where the good guy commits suicide! Almost all of the saber fights I see on here is just "I'm standing here. Uh oh. Someone else is now standing in the same room and I feel a need to fight him." Don't people know how to write stories?
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 6:56pm

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TAP2

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i agree, but isn't that because i was saying pretty much the same thing?
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 7:29pm

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Aculag

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Well, we're on one side of this here. Don't screw it up, man! I KID!
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 8:02pm

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Sollthar

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Nice one nitro... I totally agree.
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 10:46pm

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Obi

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Viper, is anyone here 'bashing' or flaming new people because of their lighsaber tests? Nope! Just the other day I helped some guy out with exporting and stuff, it's not like we're an unfriendly bunch. I'm just getting tired of seeing the 'I want clones in my movie' etc etc, even though they're not making a fan-film. Great points raised, and I'm sorry if anyone here strongly disagrees with me, but every now and then you need to step back and realise something's cheesing you off, and then voice your opinions of it. neutral
Posted: Mon, 26th May 2003, 10:53pm

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Aculag

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What really miffs me is people wanting the effects, but they don't ever make ANY movie at all. And they want plugins for stuff because they're too lazy to figure it out for themselves.
Posted: Tue, 27th May 2003, 12:44am

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BackOfTheHearse

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Actual Quotes from Movie Submission Reviews:


"evil this movie was crap.the saber where too short.the fighting even if improvised was just so crappy.the movie is was too long and did not have any story at all and most of all man learn how too use alamdv. evil"


"I hate to break it to you, but you're not good at entertaining"


"eh... nice try. Let's try to be more creative than primitive. If your aim was for simple effects, Well folks we have a WINNER!!!"

"that is the most horrible thing I have ever seen hahahahahaha"

"This was possibly the worst movie I have ever seen in my ENTIRE LIFE. It is the best rip-off of the matrix that I have seen so far, because it is so BAD. No offense, but, I mean, come on! The lightsaber scene was very, uh, fake. And the story line just wreaked of a bad movie's stench. What do I think about the sequel? Don't post it."

"what the hell was that?!
That was the worst thing I have ever seen!
I hope you didn't spend any $ on software!
My grandma's 20 year old home vid cam can do better tricks than that!
and don't start a no name short vid with a bunch of screen credits.
I guess you're not afraid of copyright infringement - IE use of music from the matrix."


"man, that was just horrible. i couldn't understand a word that was said, not one. whew, start from scratch, please"

"That was relly gay. The worst special effects movie I have ever seen"



Need I go on, folks? This is a minor sampling of bashing (Yes, I said BASHING) that was unnecessary and continues everyday.
Posted: Tue, 27th May 2003, 12:48am

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Aculag

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O...k.... your point?
Posted: Tue, 27th May 2003, 12:55am

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BackOfTheHearse

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My point being that Obi is trying to tell me that people aren't being bashed.
Posted: Tue, 27th May 2003, 1:36am

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Aculag

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Gotcha.
Posted: Tue, 27th May 2003, 7:13am

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Rawree

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Back on the subject of Fan-films,

1. Most fan-films and tests are made by new users just to experiment so yes it is unfair to tear their film into little pieces and then burn it.

2.Making a fan-film does require a certain amount of thinking, Look at Duality they put loads of planning in and because of that it turned out good and people didn't say 'Oh God it's another Star Wars fan-film' so if you plan it enough and make it look good people will like it, not if you spend 5 minutes looking for a couple of bamboo canes for lightsabers.

3. Star Wars and the Amtrix are popular themes because there is so much to explore in the Matrix and Star Wars universes. Sadly people always seem to choose the boring option, a guy in shorts and T-shirt dodging bullets.

4. What really makes a fan-film? Spaceships? Bullet time? The Matrix Soundtrack? Films using these things may not be rip offs but when people take characters and lines right out of the film, then it's a fan-film.

Finally just remember, al the films here are just a bit of fun. The creators are not Steven Spielberg, George Lucus or either of the Wachowski Brothers just as you are not a big time movie critic.
Posted: Tue, 27th May 2003, 7:40am

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Aculag

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You just re-wrote everything everyone has said in this topic. So... thanks... i guess.
Posted: Tue, 27th May 2003, 7:45am

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TAP2

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lol nitro, your quotes thing sounds like a flashback of some small kid being bullied
Posted: Tue, 27th May 2003, 8:50am

Post 34 of 39

anonymous

Also Nitro, I was partly defending myself by saying nobody was getting bashed, because you clearly made me look like the bad guy bully.
Posted: Tue, 27th May 2003, 8:52am

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Obi

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Also Nitro, I was partly defending myself by saying nobody was getting bashed, because you clearly made me look like the bad guy bully.
I posted that. Meh. tard
Posted: Wed, 28th May 2003, 3:45pm

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jirwin

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Ok Ok, This is ridiculous. Why can't all of you people who are sick of seeing boring crappy light saber tests just chill out and enjoy the humor in them. I mean, come on! If you are so tired of watching them than DON"T WATCH THEM. Okay, I have a little tutorial for you, it's called "How to not watch lightsaber tests if you don't like them." Here's how it goes:
When you see a movie on the list that says light saber test 3, don't watch it. If You click on a movie and the description of it says, this is just a test. This is my first movie, don't watch it.

Personally, I enjoy watching these dinky light saber tests for one reason. They make me laugh. Bad movies make me laugh. If you are so pissed off about seeing so much of them. Why don't you make some good movies yourself and post them on here. Guess what. It's okay to have good movies and bad movies on this site. You get a whole range of movies. Some to laugh at, and some to drool over. Get off your high horse and make some excellent original movies yourself.

I like making original movies too, I hate so much doing the same thing over and over again. But I really don't have to try hard to avoid movies that do and when I need a good laugh and when I want to feel better about my capabilities, I watch them wink .. Heck, If every movie on here were perfect ten movies, it would intimidate most of the newbies too much to even try one and if there was a system as some of you had suggested for fxhome to "monitor" which movies are posted, that's just plain communism (maybe not communism, but you get the picture). Let people have fun with alamdv and stop being the party pooper.
Posted: Wed, 28th May 2003, 5:52pm

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Obi

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jirwin wrote:

Get off your high horse and make some excellent original movies yourself


Guess what, BUDDY, I'm in the process of doing that very thing. razz
Posted: Wed, 28th May 2003, 7:51pm

Post 38 of 39

anonymous

Good Obi, Cause I agree with you that the cinema is lacking of quality.
Posted: Wed, 28th May 2003, 9:30pm

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davlin

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Sorry ..I did'nt want to get involved in this discussion cos "nitro" said it all for me.
If I was one of the many many film/test makers on this site the remark about "quality" of movies in our cinema would offend me greatly.
There are some OUTSTANDINGLY TALENTED members out there, maybe more than any other similar site,who entertain us with their projects...be it a test or a full blown movie so any inference that our members are not submitting enough "quality"stuff is rather insulting.
I apologise if my remarks seem a little blunt but I'm fed up with some members who don't seem to appreciate the effort and time to put together even the most shortist of clips.

O'l Dav