You are viewing an archive of the old fxhome.com forums. The community has since moved to hitfilm.com.

Arnold for Governor

Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2003, 1:05pm

Post 1 of 83

4036Douglas

Force: 920 | Joined: 8th Jun 2003 | Posts: 893

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Arnold Schwarzenegger is running for govener of California... What do you think?
Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2003, 1:10pm

Post 2 of 83

AndrewtheActorMan

Force: 1859 | Joined: 31st May 2003 | Posts: 1477

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I think its great and i know he is going to win. He has alot more sence than some other people out there...
Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2003, 1:50pm

Post 3 of 83

devilskater

Force: 581 | Joined: 27th Jun 2002 | Posts: 890

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

hes my dude. he comes from my country austria. Everybody is very proud of our old body builder.

ohh well, hes a cool guy and i think it would be cool if he wins.

I even loved the terminator 3 movie. I thought it was great, and I dont think there can be an even better terminator than arni.

devilskater biggrin
Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2003, 3:03pm

Post 4 of 83

MechaForce

Force: 4654 | Joined: 3rd Aug 2001 | Posts: 1934

FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Try not to take this too personally, but I really don't think you have a clue as to what he stands for politically, which would make it hard to judge whether or not he has any "sence".

Gary Coleman is running as well, but that's just stupid.

Austria = Really Cool
Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2003, 5:04pm

Post 5 of 83

sidewinder

Force: 4937 | Joined: 5th Aug 2001 | Posts: 2453

FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

s long as a liberal doesn't get elected, I'm happy.

The downdide to arnold is that, even though he's a republican, he is still pro gun control.

What can I expect? It's California, where they charge gun shops an extra $1000 when they open just because they sell guns.

Stupid.
Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2003, 7:18pm

Post 6 of 83

aaron 99

Force: 369 | Joined: 13th Mar 2003 | Posts: 189

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

sidewinder wrote:

s long as a liberal doesn't get elected, I'm happy.
same here
Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2003, 8:01pm

Post 7 of 83

Aculag

Force: 8365 | Joined: 21st Jun 2002 | Posts: 8581

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User FXhome Movie Maker MacOS User

Gold Member

Arnold is mostly republican, but he does have a lot of liberal views. Which I think makes him the perfect candidate for california. Because for one, people like him, that's obvious. He's also a republican, so he'll get republican votes, but since he has some democratic views on things, he'll also get democratic votes. I'm fairly sure that he's a shoe in. He's anyway much better than ANY of the other people running. Larry Flynt? Give me a break.
Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2003, 8:20pm

Post 8 of 83

AndrewtheActorMan

Force: 1859 | Joined: 31st May 2003 | Posts: 1477

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

i hope this doesnt turn into some huge political argument and stuff
Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2003, 8:27pm

Post 9 of 83

Two Gunned Saint

Force: 918 | Joined: 1st Sep 2002 | Posts: 1269

Member

Forget Governor. President Arnie!!!! That would be so novelty.

He'd have handled the Iraq situation differently. He'd have just gone in on his own and sorted it. SEEE YOOO EEN HELLL SAAADAM!!!!

Although I'm not particularly bothered about politics let alone politics in another country. But never the less it'd be interesting to see if the star of "Hercules in New York" could do it.
Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2003, 8:35pm

Post 10 of 83

Coureur de Bois

Force: 1394 | Joined: 23rd Sep 2002 | Posts: 1127

VideoWrap User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: -3

Yea, one may think that having a celebrity as Governer would be cool, I know I did, then along came Jesse "The Dumbass" Ventura....
Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2003, 10:53pm

Post 11 of 83

rmendoza

Force: 960 | Joined: 19th Mar 2002 | Posts: 169

MacOS User

Gold Member

I like the fact that Arnold doesn't need money and is already popular.
To me, that says he wouldn't be motivated by the usual self promotion
antics, as other politicians are...

I would like to see him talk about Californina issues and explain
what he thinks he can do for us. (I live in California)
Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2003, 11:05pm

Post 12 of 83

wdy

Force: 1700 | Joined: 30th Dec 2002 | Posts: 1258

CompositeLab Lite User EffectsLab Lite User MacOS User

Gold Member

His campaign for returning will be... "I will be back" heh...he doesn't know politics geesh.
Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2003, 11:33pm

Post 13 of 83

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

I dont care, i just think i'd be cool.

austria is a cool place, lived there for 2 years. remember liking it.
Posted: Sat, 9th Aug 2003, 11:51pm

Post 14 of 83

AndrewtheActorMan

Force: 1859 | Joined: 31st May 2003 | Posts: 1477

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

HollywoodWoody wrote:

His campaign for returning will be... "I will be back" heh...he doesn't know politics geesh.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? HE WANTED TO BE A POLITICIAN MORE THAN AN ACTOR! HE STUDIED ALOT FOR IT TOO
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:22am

Post 15 of 83

wdy

Force: 1700 | Joined: 30th Dec 2002 | Posts: 1258

CompositeLab Lite User EffectsLab Lite User MacOS User

Gold Member

Cool...still i think he should just continue with his acting career unless that is really what he wants...
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 1:24pm

Post 16 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -2

What I find strange about this, is that Arnie had links to the Nazi party.
For those forumites who care and may remember;
Back in the 80's, he was caught doing the Nazi salute before meals.
He passed it off as a joke. Yeah. Real funny Arnie, my sides are splitting at your level of mirth.
Then later on he did the whole "Please find out if my dad was a Nazi or not as I'm really innocent" routine in America.
So a team found out that Gustav Schwarzenegger had indeed, been an active Nazi party member.

You guys can go and make up your own mind about how impressionable young Arnold & his brother were.


Also remember his involvement with Kurt Waldheim.
Waldheim was a Nazi who committed atrocities during the war.
Waldheim was eventually BANNED from entering America, but was still a guest at Arnie's wedding back in 86.
What? Was he a misunderstood Nazi?
Remember too that Arnie was fotographed with Jorg Haider, he of the extreme right wing freedom party. Haider is a staunch Hitler follower and worships the word of Mein Kampf.

"Haider has praised Hitler's "sensible
policies" and also been filmed at a secret SS reunion."

For the record, read the following and see what kind of a stupid career move he could have made.
<http://www.jpost.com/com/Archive/27.Dec.1996/Features/Article-6.html>

Arnie got away with it on the grounds of being naive.
Arnie is many things, naive is not one.

What is even more disturbing, is that people are saying "Yeah let's get the Terminator in office because he makes cool films with guns & explosions."
Gimme a break guys. Is that all it takes to get the vote?
What do you actually know about his policies?
We already know that he has an extremist right wing view & socialised with Nazi's. Doesn't that worry anybody?
It was because of his Nazi involvement that he didn't stand for Governer a few years back.

As to the whole Arnie for President, think about it!!!
It couldn't happen anyway. To be President, you have to be a native of the land. Born American.
Arnie was born in Austria and therefore will never be President. He attained US citizenship back in the early 80's but it still doesn't allow him to run for President.
The only way that could happen, is if Congress passed a motion to change the Constitution, and there is no way in hell, they would ever do that.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 1:53pm

Post 17 of 83

sidewinder

Force: 4937 | Joined: 5th Aug 2001 | Posts: 2453

FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Rating: +1

Aside from the part about the president, which was good thinking on your part, the rest of that was the biggest load of Bull I've read in a while.

First off, you have to remember that Arnold is very closely associated with the German part of Europe. Austria Borders Germany, and if I'm not mistaken, was a part of the prussian empire.

Now, as much as you try to make it seem so, WWII was not this big split between good guys and bad guys. Very few people knew of the Nazi concentration camps. When Hitler came into power, he got elected by talking about how he was going to rebuild the country, and throw out the harsh treaty of Versaille, which was forced upon them after WWI. Racist and anti-semite comments were made quite often, but the citizens of Germany had no idea Hitler would actually slaughter 6 million of them.

Now, when you say that Arnold's dad was a Nazi, I fail to see your point. Millions of people in that part of Europe were Nazis, as that was the most popular government party. If you served in your armed forces, you were a Nazi. If you were patriotic, you were a Nazi. There is a range of ideas and morals here, and you cast anyone associated with that party as actively participating in the holocaust, which simply isn't true.


So, to sum it all up, it's blatantly obvious that Arnold is not a Nazi, who hates Jews and Worships Hitler. To suggest so is stupid. And I don't find it surprising that Arnold knows people in the Nazi party, since he grew up in the very area of Europe where Naziism blossomed.

We already know that he has an extremist right wing view
\

And if you think that Arnold is an extreme right-winger, that just goes to show how off you are. I'd say he's a moderate if somewhat liberal republican.


To those other folks: Wanting someone in office for reasons other than their political, leadership and moral skills is a good way to ruin a country.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 2:28pm

Post 18 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -3

At what point did your brain register me saying that Arnie WAS a Nazi and hates Jews & Worships Hitler.
Grow up little man. That is pathetic.
Don't read your own lines into my post and create your own illusion of what I wrote.
I said plain & simple, even for you to understand, that Arnie had links with the Nazi party.
Not the same as Arnie is a Nazi.
How old are you? Little teenager or something?
The only one's who worshipped Hitler were Arnie's friends Kurt Waldheim & Jorg Haider.
How is it a load of bull? Do you even know anything about Waldheim?
Have you educated yourself on who he was?
Do you know a single thing about Jorg Haider?
Don't just read my link.
Go research his active involvement in Combat 18.
Combat 18 is an extreme fasict movement that gets it's name from the idea of Combat and the numbers 18 signify the 1st and 8th letters of the alphabet. A.H. Adolph Hitler.

Did you bother to read the link?
That link is from The Jerusalem Post! Are they talking B.S?

It's fair enough to say that because you grow up in a certain politically charged era, you are bound, by default to meet people from those Nationalist Parties. Fair point, but then what does it say if you are caught socialising with these people!!!

I live in East London.
We had a movement here called the BNP. The British National Party. They are nothing but right wing extremists who worship Hitleresque views and physically attack Blacks & Asians. They are responsible for many racial murders and the 5 that murdered Stephen Laurence were part of the movement.
Now then, I know of some people that support these lowlife scum. But you wont see me inviting them to my wedding or smiling and shaking their hands.
So if Arnie knew these people by default, fair enough. But to socialise with them?
That my friend, is B.S.

-"Now, when you say that Arnold's dad was a Nazi, I fail to see your point"-

I'll spell it out for you shall I.
Arnie grew up with his dad's views around the dinner table. Arnie gave out a lot of strong right wing views in his early days in the US bordering fanaticism.
He was told to calm it down by Ben Weider who needed Arnie to appeal to the masses.
It was Ben who brought Arnie over.
Arnie was made aware that certain issues would not be accepted publicly.
In other words, keep those for behind closed doors.
Arnie was caught making Nazi salutes before dinner whilst in America and passed it off as a joke.
You still fail to see a point?
Don't put someone onto such a pedestal because of a few films.
It's that kind of blind hero worshipping ignorance that landed Germany into a lot of trouble.

-"you cast anyone associated with that party as actively participating in the holocaust"-

Really? Again your ignorance is astounding! Where have I claimed that?
Where did I even mention the holocaust?
I made mention of Waldheim commiting atrocities.
I made mention of Haider praising Hitlers sensible policies.
I made mention of Gustav being a Nazi party member.

So where do you make the Holocauset connection?
I have presented everything concisely for you to read? So where do you get these avenues and alleyways into the holocaust?
Grow up and stop hero worshipping.
Go & research these people.

Remember; just because you grow up in a political era of racism and bigotry, doesn't mean that you socialise with these people.
Arnie had a choice. He just chose to socialise with them.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 3:09pm

Post 19 of 83

Hajiku_Flip

Force: 3786 | Joined: 2nd Jun 2002 | Posts: 1669

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +2

Hey, lets try to have a discussion without the useless insults mmkay? wink
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 3:18pm

Post 20 of 83

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

You cant post a whole load of rubbish and then just insult the person who explains why its wrong.

You go on about the BNP and what the modern thought of what being a Nazi is about without realising that it was totally different back then. Hitler was a credible politition before the war started and many people supported him without knowing what we know now. Thats what propoganda is about, keeping the people thinking they are on the side of right. The UK even supported Hitler and his party until after he started attacking people!
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 3:26pm

Post 21 of 83

sidewinder

Force: 4937 | Joined: 5th Aug 2001 | Posts: 2453

FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Rating: +1

"Grow up little man. That is pathetic."

"How old are you? Little teenager or something?"

"Grow up and stop hero worshipping."



Your arrogance really pisses me off. What does my age have anything to do with this? Since you're older, does that give you a deeper insight into politics than I? Does that reveal a slew of facts that only you can see? I didn't make any personal attacks on you, so I don't see your justification for taking any at me.


-


"Don't read your own lines into my post and create your own illusion of what I wrote."

That waas quite a hypocritical statement considering that you did the exact same thing to me.

"Don't put someone onto such a pedestal because of a few films."

You see, I never said anything about worshipping him because of the movies he was in. In fact, I even wrote the line "Wanting someone in office for reasons other than their political, leadership and moral skills is a good way to ruin a country."


-


"I said plain & simple, even for you to understand, that Arnie had links with the Nazi party.
Not the same as Arnie is a Nazi. "

"The only one's who worshipped Hitler were Arnie's friends Kurt Waldheim & Jorg Haider. "

"Arnie was caught making Nazi salutes before dinner whilst in America"

"Arnie grew up with his dad's views around the dinner table. Arnie gave out a lot of strong right wing views in his early days in the US bordering fanaticism. "

First, you start off by making a point that you only said that Arnold knew people involved in the Nazi party, but yet you go on to make a point that Arnold shares the views of the Nazi party?

So what is the whole point of you writing these two large posts on Arnold? Are you merely informing us that, since he grew up in Austria, that he (Gasp!) had friends involved in the Nazi party? Obviously not, since you go on to make statements that Arnold then shares these views.


I took your advice and did a quick search on Kurt Waldheim. I found this entry in the encyclopedia...

"In 1986 he was elected president of Austria, despite the scandal caused by the revelation that he had been an officer in a German army unit that committed atrocities in Yugoslavia during World War II; he denied any knowledge of the atrocities. An international investigation cleared him of complicity"

One more chunk...

" While he was in Yugoslavia, 16,000 Yugoslavs were killed in one month, many due to blind reprisals. Waldheim was a staff officer and translator. This was some of the bloodiest and merciless fighting of the war - and what got Waldheim his indictment for murder. He states he forgotten or no longer remembers (Rosenblum 434-36). This may be what Sartre considers, and defines, as escaping responsibility. In all fairness, Waldheim was a follower, not a decision maker. He was not a warrior or a leader of men. For the most part, he was only following orders. He was an administrator, a bureaucrat - in the best Kafkaesque tradition. The guilty were punished, although they were not guilty. Women and children were murdered for sins and crimes they could not possibly commit."

So, what I've found is that Waldheim was a translator in the Nazi army...he didn't give orders, or fight, but instead did bureaucratic work for a division reponsible for a massacre.

But really, it doesn't matter too much, because as you said, you just wanted to prove that Arnold knew these people, not that Arnold himself is a Nazi.


Frankly, I find all this concentration on the fact that Arnold socialized with members of the Nazi movement to really be of no significance to his political and moral views, and I might be reading too much between the lines again, but I really don't see why you'd bring this whole thing up unless you wanted to trash Arnold.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 3:32pm

Post 22 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

The following is taken from a UK broadsheet newspaper. The Gaurdian.
Being a broadsheet, it is classed a more "intellectual" paper.
However, the highbrow merits are not in question.
As this is dated July 14th, it has not been pulled or had libel action taken against it.
As we all know, Arnie loves to take papers to court if he feels he has a case.
The below page is still available at the following link;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4711617,00.html

The main subject matter I'd like to bring to your attention is this, taken from the article;


But the fact that his father, Gustav, was a Nazi stormtrooper may be tricky

So if you're dad just happens to be a Stormtrooper, he is a regular guy who will never enforce opinions and his kids will never go along with Dad's views no matter how popular they are at the time...uh huh.

This is the cheapest method of running for office without waiting for the 2006 expected race due to Gray's recall! It has nothing to do with Arnie's financial dedication.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Schwarzenegger wants to be a US governor

As an inarticulate sex-pest and ex-druggie, he's perfectly qualified

John Sutherland
Monday July 14, 2003
The Guardian

I suspect that "Schwarzeneggerism" is not in even the trendiest of dictionaries. Next year it will be, if history's most expensive Tin Man succeeds Gray Davis as governor of California. The Gray Man's chances of making it into the dictionaries of quotations are poor. So, frankly, are his prospects of holding on to his job.

His latest wheeze, trebling the car-licensing tax in a state where even the parking valets have parking valets, has sealed his fate. This week Davis will probably be "recalled" (ie, voted out mid-term) allowing Schwarzenegger to run as the Republican candidate without having to wait until 2006 and fight his way, expensively, through the primaries.

The brand is strong. He is the Terminator, an outsider who'll keep on coming until he has completed his mission: saving the human race from the Democrats. He has already, cynics say, wrapped up the Hispanic vote with his movie catchphrases "hasta la vista, baby" and "no problemo".

It is true that Schwarzenegger speaks English little better than his five words of Spanish, and that the longest word he knows is probably his own surname. If things go his way, he will be the first governor to need subtitles for his inaugural speech ("Ich bin ein Kaliforner"). Even Jesse "the Body" Ventura, WWF wrestler turned governor of Minnesota, can mangle a sentence or two.

Schwarzenegger? He keeps on coming, but he rarely gets to the end of a sentence. Listen to him enthusing about his trophy wife, on a radio talk-in: "Well, I think the difference in being married to a Kennedy or not - I think what has been a great, great pleasure for me, you know, to have such an extraordinary woman, such a fantastic wife, such a spectacular mother. Because when you meet somebody, when you fall in love like I did with Maria, and then you decide to get married, you have no idea what kind of a mother she will be. You assume that because her mother was a fantastic mother, and Maria - my mother was really great. I respected my mother."

The soccer moms, one fears, will be more of a problemo than the gun-lobby and the Latinos.

Schwarzenegger's best unscripted lines remain those from his 1977 movie, Pumping Iron: "I like them with black hair," he muses gutturally, "with brown hair, with red hair, with big breasts, with little breasts, with a big ass, with a little ass." His wife Maria, one notes, has brown hair and - well, we won't go there.

There's red meat for the media Rottweilers. No one - in a state where three out of five are immigrants - cares that Schwarzenegger was born Austrian. But the fact that his father, Gustav, was a Nazi stormtrooper may be tricky. And inviting Kurt Waldheim to his wedding was bad. Then there are all those tabloid smears about drugs and serial groping.

Schwarzenegger and his team have cleaned up the candidate's image for political battle. A tactful $5m donation to the Simon Wiesenthal Centre has lanced the Gustav boil. He also claims to be learning Hebrew (perhaps he'll use that at the inauguration and lock in the Jewish vote for a second term).

Last November, he sanctioned the release of a remastered version of Pumping Iron (uncut). It shows young Schwarzenegger merrily puffing a joint between pumping and humping. That should relegate any illegal substance accusations to the back burner as "youthful indiscretions".

As for the "inappropriate fondling", Schwarzenegger cheerfully refers to himself (in jest, of course) as "the Grope-inator" in the PR for T3. It is, we apprehend, the kind of thing that red-blooded guys like him get up to. And if anabolic steroids shrink the testicles, it proves conclusively he never touched them.

One small, unanswered question remains: how exactly will Governor Schwarzenegger deal with California's terrifying $38bn deficit? Trust him; he's a superhero.

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2003
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 3:53pm

Post 23 of 83

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1/-1

The "Guardian" broadsheet (UK) is nothing more than a self serving propaganda machine for the political correct liberals of our society....who have managed to perverse all common sense and freedom of speech not unlike some comments in this thread.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:03pm

Post 24 of 83

sidewinder

Force: 4937 | Joined: 5th Aug 2001 | Posts: 2453

FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Rating: +1

Exactly what I was thinking. smile
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:04pm

Post 25 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

Niko,
Your original response was arrogant and patronising.

Slightly too "This is how it is & everything else is BS."

I've read your posts in the past and you've pissed others off with the same attitude.

My mention of your age was down to you missing the nature of some of the comments. Re: His father being a Nazi and you not seeing the point.
Re: You not taking the time out to figure out who Jorg Haider was.
Before you make such sweeping "This is how it is" statements, you should at least do some background research.
Jorg Haider is scum of the lowest level. Arnie socialised with him. You fail to see a point.
That's why I mention your age.
It's in the same way that as a 17 year old, your rude, brash arrogance really pisses me off as well. So little humility. I don't just mean in this post.
But that, I'm sure can be taken to PM's if you so wish.


-"First, you start off by making a point that you only said that Arnold knew people involved in the Nazi party, but yet you go on to make a point that Arnold shares the views of the Nazi party?"-

Where do I make this statement out of curiousity? The bit about him sharing Nazi views?
Do you by any chance mean this bit;

"Arnie gave out a lot of strong right wing views in his early days in the US bordering fanaticism"?

Where do I mention having Nazi views? Not all right wing people are Nazi's you know. If they were then the Republicans & Conservatives could be called Nazi's. That is hardly the case Niko. So again, where did you find this point?



"So what is the whole point of you writing these two large posts on Arnold? Are you merely informing us that, since he grew up in Austria, that he (Gasp!) had friends involved in the Nazi party? Obviously not, since you go on to make statements that Arnold then shares these views"

No, Niko, no.
You are missing the point.
Arnie, once established in the US, made friends with these people. As an adult. A fully aware adult. An adult who knew his history.
He still chose to be friends with Nazi's.
It's not as if he had known them since childhood.
He became friends with them during his adult life in the US.
How do you think people would react if Bush suddenly declared his new best friend was Grand Wizard at a KKK lodge?
Can you see where I'm getting to?
Political figures who have public leanings towards the extreme's never go down well, unless there's the "I'll Be Back" novelty factor attached.

Niko, would you go out of your way and befriend and known racist? A KKK figure head? Would you do a Nazi salute as "a joke"?
Would you want to be pal's with a Nazi like Jorg Haider?



Re: Waldheim. I remember when this was the big talking point of the day and every newspaper l;atched onto the whole "He states he forgotten or no longer remembers (Rosenblum 434-36). "
Robin Williams even made this part of his routine.
So damned conveniant to forget a huge chunk.
I consider that BS. The guy was fully aware of what was going on.


-"Frankly, I find all this concentration on the fact that Arnold socialized with members of the Nazi movement to really be of no significance to his political and moral views, and I might be reading too much between the lines again, but I really don't see why you'd bring this whole thing up unless you wanted to trash Arnold."-

Again, no Niko, no.
I still rate Terminator as one of the greatest films ever made. Not ime for the sequel.
I rate Arnie as one of the finest bodybuilders ever.
I rate him as a very driven man and give respect to all 3 of the above statements.


-"Arnold socialized with members of the Nazi movement to really be of no significance to his political and moral views"-

Hmmm...he was influenced by his Nazi Stormtrooper father, he was friends with leading Nazi figure heads and you fail to see how it could influence his political stance?
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:07pm

Post 26 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

Davlin, it's why I put intellectual in quotes.

Regardless of the paper, you miss the point.
They were not taken to court over the article.

It's not just some small throwaway comment that can be ignored.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:12pm

Post 27 of 83

sidewinder

Force: 4937 | Joined: 5th Aug 2001 | Posts: 2453

FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Rating: +1

I see what you mean about the breshness on my part, and I'll take that out of my next posts.

But I have one question before I go on, and just a yes or no answer will be fine.

Does Arnold have Nazi views or not? (And by Nazi, I mean the modern perception: Racist, Anti-Semite, etc...Not the popular perception back in the 30's)
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:17pm

Post 28 of 83

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Edins you bore me. You flip your point between arnie being a nazi or just friends with them to suit your attack of him or defense of your point of view. Sidey has done a tremendous job of not only pointing out why your points are rubbish but also showing why, and has, unlike you, held back from making it personal.

Also you still overlook the difference between being a Nazi now and one then. And in regard to his father and Waldheim, they were just links in a chain that mostly thought it was on the side of right. Even those like Waldheim who may have known about massacres could hardly have done anything about them, so what IS your point?

Last edited Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:23pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:23pm

Post 29 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

I'd rather people did some research and made up their own minds.
Once upon a time, I was a huge Arnie fan, and now I'm not.

I'll leave it at that.



Could the person who sent me that really nasty racist vile PM, please re-send it as I accidentally deleted it & I can't give you any credit for it,
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:29pm

Post 30 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

Sorry Kid. Only just noticed you brown nosing.
What's it like down there?

My point is that people should research things and look a little further than the media eye.

"Sidey has done a tremendous job"- Quit it with the brown nosing.

He has made his comments and I have made mine.
I've at least had the sense to spend time looking thru archives and finding a point to base my comments on.
Niko in turn has looked up Waldheim.
What about you?
What is your contribution other than brown nosing for little points?

As for me calling Arnie a Nazi. Where did I say that?
Inference?

Anyway,


Sorry just caught the tail end of your post.
This makes me laugh.
What could Waldheim have done?
Simple. Not done it. left. Quit. Finished. And if every other innocent little Nazi who suddenly found out the truth quit, then the Reich wouldn't have lasted as long as it did!
What a strange thing to say!

What would you do?
Would you hang about once you knew the truth?
Would you befriend racists Kid?
Tell me why don't you.

Last edited Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:36pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:36pm

Post 31 of 83

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

I am not sucking up to Sidey. My point is that you are being a moron whereas Sidey is being more sensible than usual about it.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:39pm

Post 32 of 83

TMM

Force: 2288 | Joined: 10th Dec 2001 | Posts: 1241

Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Kid wrote:

Sidey has done a tremendous job of not only pointing out why your points are rubbish but also showing why
I am afraid, Edins Vampire, that I have to agree with Kid here, you have stated your points, and sidey has not only stated his, but has quoted from such sources as the Encyclopedia, several points that leave your original arguements incorrect...

Maybe you are not putting what you want to say in the correct words or context, but I do believe you have a few valid points, as does sidey...

Admittedly I haven't done any research on the matter, but clearly sidey has, and I doubt he has edited to confirm his points, I take his word for what he has quoted, and believe him to be correct...

Also Edins Vampire, i don't think you should be making this discussion so personal, i don't believe kid is 'brown nosing' at all, he has good points that he has put accross, and i don't think the age discrimination that you have put towards sidewinder is at all correct, because he clearly knows a little, maybe even a lot, about the matter...

Those who have stated that Arnie knows 'nothing' about politics, well, i think your mistaken, as, has already been said, Arnie has wanted to go into politics more than anything, but only now has the opportunity arisen, i don't think he is intentionally using his fame to get into it...

I personally feel (not knowing much about politics) that arnie would be a good governor, based on my knowledge of the events in hand...

TMM

Last edited Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:41pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:39pm

Post 33 of 83

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Are you totally stupid!?! You can't just quit, you would be shot or sent to the front or something. People are trapped in situations that they don't want to be in enough in current society let alone during wartime when your life or those of your friends/family may be threatened.

Also while we are blaming every German or Nazi for the slightest war crime that they may have known about lets not forget the attrocities that the allies committed. Propoganda has done a brilliant job of demonising Nazis and Germans while exonerating us. Sometimes you need to remember that it isnt all black and white.

Last edited Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:51pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:46pm

Post 34 of 83

TMM

Force: 2288 | Joined: 10th Dec 2001 | Posts: 1241

Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

sorry, Just caught the edited version of your post...

Edins Vampire wrote:

What could Waldheim have done?
Simple. Not done it. left. Quit. Finished.
I don't think it's quite that simple, you can't just quit, like kid said, u'd be sent straight to the front line...

There are some situations, that you may not like, but you have to deal with, in this case he didn't have much of a choice...

TMM
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:55pm

Post 35 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

So you'd carry on killing innocents would you Kid?
Have you heard the saying laying down your life so others would survive?
Personally, if I was made aware, I'd rather die than be involved.
What about the 5th columnists? They were aware of what was happening and they chose to fight back.
They joined forces with the allies and provided vital info that led to many successful raids against the Nazi's.
Waldheim could have followed this route had he been so innocent and merely a follower.
Thousands of German soldiers took the 5th column stance against the Nazi movement!

Now then, calling me moron and stupid.
Bit of a hypocrite really aren't you.
But thankyou for the insight into what you would do if you was a Nazi.
I'll choose to ignore you from now on if it's all the same.

TMM. If it make's it any easier, I could list all of my sources.
I gave credit to the articles from The Jerusalem Post & The Gaurdian.
My only personal credit is a degree in 20th Century History.
Regardless, I could give even more quotes and credits if needed.

Niko, sorry if you took my comments re: your age personal but I did clear up what I meant by the brashness to which you have already made comment.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 4:57pm

Post 36 of 83

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Well firstly he wasnt killing anyone. Secondly, why do you think laying down your life would save anyone? They would simply fill your shoes with someone else.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:02pm

Post 37 of 83

TMM

Force: 2288 | Joined: 10th Dec 2001 | Posts: 1241

Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Edins Vampire wrote:

TMM. If it make's it any easier, I could list all of my sources.
I gave credit to the articles from The Jerusalem Post & The Gaurdian.
My only personal credit is a degree in 20th Century History.
Regardless, I could give even more quotes and credits if needed.
It's not so much that you're telling lies or what ever, I believe you have gotten your information from these sources, and more, I am just saying that sidey has given alternate sides to the 'story' and from more respectable sources, which I personally believe in more...

I don't disrespect your opinion, you can believe what you want, i just feel you don't seem to take in other people's opinions...

I am sorry if you have taken offence by my post stating sidey's sources, i was just using it as an example...

TMM
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:08pm

Post 38 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

There are several points to make there Ben.

1: You don't know if Waldheim did or didn't. If you research it, you'll find that he has conveniantly lost a huge chunk of his memory.
The fact that he has conveniantly lost some time, makes me draw the more obvious conclusion. Otherwise what did he have to hide?
Had a few drinks and ended up in Poland? I don't think so.

2: I'd rather die than have someone else's blood on my hands. How would you live with yourself otherwise?

3: If you die as a result of having helped the 5th column, then your death wouldn't be in vain.


TMM - I don't take offence at that.
Although different text books from around the world will each tell their own version to accomodate their propoganda machines.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:11pm

Post 39 of 83

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Well loss of memory of traumatic events is hardly unusual especially in wartime. I would think that it suggests he was not a part of it because if he had been then he would have been more comfortable and not blocked it out. If he was simply lying about not being able to remember this would be more easily detectable.

Also if you are unable to stop it then how is the blood on your hands?
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:13pm

Post 40 of 83

TMM

Force: 2288 | Joined: 10th Dec 2001 | Posts: 1241

Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Edins Vampire wrote:

1: You don't know if Waldheim did or didn't.

Sidewinder wrote:

Waldheim was a staff officer and translator.
Now, I know i could be mistaken, but i doubt a translator is going to have killed anyone...

TMM
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:16pm

Post 41 of 83

MechaForce

Force: 4654 | Joined: 3rd Aug 2001 | Posts: 1934

FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Edins Vampire wrote:

As for me calling Arnie a Nazi. Where did I say that?
Inference?
Oh come on.

Edins Vampire wrote:

-Arnie gave out a lot of strong right wing views in his early days in the US bordering fanaticism.
-Arnie was caught making Nazi salutes before dinner whilst in America and passed it off as a joke.
-Also remember his involvement with Kurt Waldheim. Waldheim was a Nazi who committed atrocities during the war.
-Arnie had links to the Nazi party.
I have NO CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO INFER THERE! Maybe there are some...hidden meanings? Hmmmmm..... And even if you're not directly saying he's a Nazi, you still are associating his political views with the Nazi's, which is obviously incorrect.

Mods, don't delete this thread.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:17pm

Post 42 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

One question.
Did you watch him being put on the spot?
It was so obvious he was trying to hide something.

Look at it this way, the 5 that killed Stephen Lawrence. There is no doubt in anybody's mind that they were guilty right.
Yet they got off completely!!
On technicalities.
Everybody knew they were guilty including the cops, but in the courts, there was nothing they could do due to technicalities.
Sudden memory loss, forgetting this, that & the other.

Now if 5 world class low lives can get off scot free for an extremely brutal racist murder, you don't think Waldheim with his entourage of high pay lawyers could save him?

Are you arguing because you genuinely believe him to be innocent or just to provoke reaction.
Do you really know about Waldheim or are you just doing quick searches on Yahoo or something?
No one in their right mind could say he was innocent.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're not totally clued up on Waldheim and what he was involved in.
Please don't just read the first text you find.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:26pm

Post 43 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

Mecha.
So good of you to join this little debate.
I was awaiting your posts.

The comments you reproduced from my earlier posts are from known sources.
Not from me.
They are out there for anyone to find.

My "inference?" line was self explanatory.

Had they been mine, then yes you could say I am calling him a Nazi.

But dig this Mech, if I have an issue or comment to make, I'll just come out with it as you know.
If I think someone is Racist or a nazi, I'll just say .

My first thread clearly indicates what worries me. You guys seem to be missing this. I've credited Arnie and I've given my worries & doubts.

I think I have figured something out.
Arnie has a lot of fans on this site who don't like him being questioned, grilled or slated regardless of what has come up in the past.
Very strange.
Odd as I too used to be a big Arnie fan once upon a time.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:27pm

Post 44 of 83

TMM

Force: 2288 | Joined: 10th Dec 2001 | Posts: 1241

Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Mechaforce: very good points made there...

Edins Vampire: I am judging my points based upon the arguements Sidey, yourself, and others have made, i won't like about doing my own research, i am judging my points, based up what has been laid out in front of me in this thread...

I am not saying anything to provoke reaction, i am sorry if u feel that is what i am doing, and i strongly believe, that kid, mecha and all the others aren't either, we're not that shallow to get a thrill from winding u up...

I believe, based upon the facts that have been laid down, from the resources that have been quoted, that waldheim was innocent, i don't believe he could have directly caused loss of life, if you can prove this point wrong, then go for it, my opinion is dependant on what i know of the matter, and so far i haven't heard anything that would make me believe otherwise...

remember, i have admitted to not personally doing any research, because then i wouldn't know which sources are correct or not, but i certainly value an encyclopedia's context way more than the guardian, the guardian's stories are still based upon (even if it's only slightly) the limited facts and opinion of the writer themselves, where as i believe an encyclopedia is more fact based - it doesn't look at JUST the good side, or JUST the bad side of things, it looks at everything, and so gives a more rounded view...

Edins Vampire wrote:

think I have figured something out.
Arnie has a lot of fans on this site who don't like him being questioned, grilled or slated regardless of what has come up in the past.
I don't believe any of us are shallow enough to be basing our opinions on being an arnie fan, especially considering we're talking about waldheim!

I think that Ian McKellen is a great actor, he's my favorite, but i wouldn't use that as a reason to vote him in as our prime minister, if i were to vote, i'd vote for the one that'd be best for the country, as sidey (i believe it was) said, you shouldn't vote him in just because he is a good actor, vote him in because he can make a positive difference to the state...

TMM

Last edited Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:33pm; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:30pm

Post 45 of 83

MechaForce

Force: 4654 | Joined: 3rd Aug 2001 | Posts: 1934

FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

In that case, what would you reccomend besides an Ecyclopedia?

The Guardian?

And MAYBE if you don't want people quoting YOU should put the text in QUOTES. And nonetheless, if you just copied and pasted it from other sites, you still chose to put them in your posts as your own.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:36pm

Post 46 of 83

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

"Edin" ...you're right my comment on the Guardian was "OT" but I enjoyed giving it a bit of stick.

Sadly the human race tends to rewrite history so often it's almost impossible to get to the truth.When distinguished historians research some of our past deeds they get pillaried and ruined by intersested parties
if the outcome does'nt suit.

O'l Dav
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:38pm

Post 47 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

TMM: The comment wasn't made against you.
It was to Kid. Sorry should have added that.
I don't believe Kid knows much about Waldheim other than what he has quickly run a search thru.


As for proving it to you.
That is pointless as I have been saying people should find things out for themselves.
If a Nazi says I was just a translator and did nothing untoward, would the US be right in banning him from entering the country?
Did they know something?
Certain CIA documents have been declassified, but as we all know, not a single document is released without some blackmarking over the page or a follow up page missing.
I'm not here to teach you history 101, I think if you want to make an opinion, go and research it yourself.
Just basing it on what people post here is the worst thing you can do.


Mecha: Re: The Gaurdian.
What did I write about it?
You are so missing the point.
I put intellectual in quotes and directly underneath it I made the comment about highbrow merits.
It's sarcasm my friend. Simple sarcasm. We covered that one last time.
The point is, it doesn't matter what the political slant of the paper is, the fact remains that it was not pulled due to legal intervention.
Is that any better?
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:40pm

Post 48 of 83

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

davlin wrote:

When distinguished historians research some of our past deeds they get pillaried and ruined by intersested parties
if the outcome does'nt suit.
This is true however its not what we're doing with edin before anyone jumps to that. Rather it seems that he is on a witchunt. No one is saying arnie doesn't have Nazi ties, it would be impossible for him not to, but that it is irrelevant. Why not try and explain why he is a communist next? razz
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:43pm

Post 49 of 83

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Edins Vampire wrote:

The point is, it doesn't matter what the political slant of the paper is, the fact remains that it was not pulled due to legal intervention.
Thats only because it isn't making any statements, simply bending the facts and giving the authors opinion. There would be no legal basis whether its true or not.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:47pm

Post 50 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

OK let's cut the crap
Somebody please tell me what the hell Arnie was doing socialising with Jorg Haider.
And if anyone defends Jorg, then you are simply adding to this debate to provoke or agree with a friend of yours who has already posted.
If you defend Jorg, you are nothing short of a racist, ignorant low life.

Do you know who Jorg Haider is people?
Why is Jorg Haiders picture on the rogues' gallery of the Simon Wiesenthal
Centre under extreme right wingers?
Why was Arnie photographed smiling and shaking hands with this man?
Why was he his friend?
Why is it that the friendship was eventually broken by Arnie when the heat got to be too much?
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 5:56pm

Post 51 of 83

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Excellent point.."Kid"

BTW..my comments on "Historians etc." was a general remark and not aimed in any direction.

Some really good stuff coming out of this thread.......who knows you might all change the world.....nah!...I'll leave that to the "Guardian"....oops
sorry.....hehe!

O'l Dav
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 6:03pm

Post 52 of 83

TMM

Force: 2288 | Joined: 10th Dec 2001 | Posts: 1241

Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Right edin - i know u have said "do your own research" to everyone, but u have also said a lot about waldheim that has swayed my opinion from side to side - and remember, it's just my opinion, not the facts of life, i could just have a lame opinion of the matter, it's not controlling the world or anything

also, why have u suddenly said "right let's cut the crap" and totally changed ur arguement by looking at a different person - which agreed, is an evil one...

Davlin - heh, would be kewl if we were in control of the world biggrin ooo, the power, mua hahahaha

TMM
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 6:24pm

Post 53 of 83

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

LOL "TMM".....if only....hehe!.........I think we should all stand and shout

"I'll be back".........hehe
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 6:36pm

Post 54 of 83

b4uask30male

Force: 5619 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 3497

Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

watcha talkin bout davlin surprised

Gary Colman for President smile

Don't get me started on Larry smile he's my mate in the industry smile

Sorry had to change the subject here, I have no idea who these guys are tard except Arnie.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 6:36pm

Post 55 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

TMM:
My comment about Haider went hand in hand with Waldheim.
Nobody made mention of him then.
All settling on ignorance of Waldheim or by simply quoting the Encyclopedia as the be all and end all of historical relevance. Biased or not.


However, the crap cutting is so people can explain away the real meat on the bone.
Basically, it involves a lot of reading up on Haider.
Maybe some people will be disgusted that little old Arnie would socialise with a nasty little Hitler worshipping b1tch.
I don't know. Perhaps someone will say Haider is innocent as well.
That should really seal the fate of this debate and their intelligence.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 7:02pm

Post 56 of 83

davlin

Force: 1572 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 1088

EffectsLab Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

OK..."B4"...tell'em the truth...the whole truth....you know who's gonna be President don't you!........come on tell the world cos you have a lot of insider information on this subject......go on I dare you.......shock the world...bring goverments down.....start the third world war......make Marco mad..........ahhhh!...such fun...hehe

O'l Dav
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 8:06pm

Post 57 of 83

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Edins Vampire wrote:

I'd rather people did some research and made up their own minds.
Exactly, so don't say that arnie does this or arnie doesn't do this or arnie believes in this etc. i haven't read all of the posts, but it seems that you are the only person with this view of arnold. plus, i don't quite trust your sources because if all of it were true, we would hear a much bigger uproar about it in the media...and i don't see one.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 8:10pm

Post 58 of 83

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Edins Vampire wrote:

And if anyone defends Jorg, then you are simply adding to this debate to provoke or agree with a friend of yours who has already posted.
Also, you start this whole thing and it seems that you are very strongly opinionated against discrimination (as you should be)...but by saying that, aren't you also stereotyping(ie, discrimination, but smaller on the scale) people into a group, no matter the reason for it (hitler had many reasons i'm sure, but still, non of it is justifible)? the exact opposite of what you seem to stand for?
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 8:22pm

Post 59 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

Firstly Kirill, I can say whatever I want.
It is my opinion - period.
I'm not telling people that they MUST believe this or they MUST believe that.
I am giving MY opinion based on MY research.

If others would research the case then fair play to them. By research, I don't mean a quick Google search for Jorg Haider and that's the end of it.
That hardly warrants an opinion based on fact, more an opinion based on a page or two if that.


As for the stereotyping of people who back Jorg Haider.
That is what you meant right?

I have never made it a secret that racists disgust me and they are lowest vile form of scum.
If people wish to back up Jorg Haider, then I consider them just as bad.
Are you Kirill aware of who Jorg is?
Or are you just defending the rights of people.

In a politically correct sense, people would defend Hitler's views & rights. To me that is PC gone mad.

If people agree with the Nazi league then I have no time or respect for them at all. They are worth nothing in the grand scheme of things. If that means I am discriminating, then I couldn't care less.
Discriminating against the poor, hard done to, far right?
You wont see me crying any tears.


But I find it funny that all of a sudden, nobody wants to touch the Jorg Haider matter.
What's the matter guys?
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 8:25pm

Post 60 of 83

TMM

Force: 2288 | Joined: 10th Dec 2001 | Posts: 1241

Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Cypher, very good points, i was just thinking how Edins Vampire keeps seeming to contradict himself slightly with a few comments he has made, and how he doesn't seem to value everyone else's opinion, i value his opinion, have considered it, looked at the facts he has portrayed and decided that i don't carry that opinion of the situation...

edins vampire, you seem to tell everyone that they should do the research, and when they do, you say they are wrong, i don't understand...

TMM
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 8:32pm

Post 61 of 83

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Edin (i would call you by your first name, but it is not listed),

first, yes, it IS your opinion, and we've all heard about 10 too many times on this page alone, so quit it will ya?

second, you do make it sound that you are trying to tell people what the must believe about arnold and you try to back it up by saying you have done your research. well i wasn't there for your research (nor do i care enough) so i do not trust your research and sources so therefore i don't really care for your opinion.

thirdly, i don't know who this jorg guy and it couldn't care less. he seems to be someone who is affiliated with nazi views or whatever (that is, according to you. i have not done any research and have not read all of the replies to this thread). so i am not going to comment on anything that he and arnold MAY have been connected with.

thirdly, GIVE IT A REST. like i said above, we know your opinion and if we took the time to read them and reply, then we are acknowledging them, which should be enough for you to just read other peoples opinions and not restating yours in other ways.

like im sure you said yourself to others, this is not a personal attack against you. nor am i siding with anyone in particular. to tell you the truth, the outcome of this vote will have no influence on me. in fact, i have more influcence on it by talking about it. that's how little it really matters to me. i do not live in the state, nor do i live even in the same country. to me, this is just "entertainment" if you will. its interesting to see that a celebrity as big as arnold is running for governor and i will watch the results.

simple
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 8:32pm

Post 62 of 83

TMM

Force: 2288 | Joined: 10th Dec 2001 | Posts: 1241

Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Edins Vampire wrote:

It is my opinion - period.
IF you feel that you ae just puttign accross ur opinion, then u've already done it, so you don't need to keep repeating stuff, if u believe u r just posting ur opinion, then stop trying to change others minds by talking about waldheim etc, all u need to do is post once about it, unless u want to actual discuss these pointers, which u r not claiming to do either, so i am slightly confused...

Edins Vampire wrote:

If others would research the case then fair play to them.
well, we have already seen examples of people doing research, admittedly not by me, but both u and sidey have shown points from various sources...

Edins Vampire wrote:

I have never made it a secret that racists disgust me and they are lowest vile form of scum.

Edins Vampire wrote:

If that means I am discriminating, then I couldn't care less.
All i can say is that racism and stereotyping all fit under the heading of discrimination, it is odd that u don't believe in racism, and freely admit to being very stereotypical about the matter...

Edins Vampire wrote:

But I find it funny that all of a sudden, nobody wants to touch the Jorg Haider matter.
I am waiting for someone else to gimme some information about him smile i'm never any good at research, so i am just waiting for someone to bring in some information about him that i can question or believe, u don't seem to have stated anything about him apart from "he's a bad man"

TMM
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 8:39pm

Post 63 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -2

How have I contradicted myself TMM.

On the one hand, you say you have no knowledge of any of this and are basing your facts on what we say on here yet at the same time, you are passing comment of believing so and so because of what they have said.
You think that's wise. What do you yourself actually know about any of the names and events mentioned?
As you have said; Nothing.

You said that you believe Sideys sources.
Tell me then TMM, what are his sources other than an Encyclopedia?

I'd value opinions more if they were based on actual knowledge and research and not some witch hunt mentality of their idol being slated.

So you say I'm changing the subject?
How?
I mentioned Jorg Haider way back in the beginning of my posts.
The Waldheim responses I got were from search engines and just based on the presented text. Nothing else.
No mention of having spoken to Jewish immigrants or German officials.
Sidey is 17 right? That means when I was watching the trial on TV and reading about it in the paper, Sidey wasn't even born. Yet if he does a quick search on an engine, then whatever he finds must be the right thing instantly?
TMM, I'll value your opinion if you actually have one, and not one that is based on hanging on to the coat tails of others.


So tell me, what do you know about Jorg Haider? Nothing right.
Then I will wait for someone to defend him and his involvement with Arnie.

One final thing TMM,

-"you seem to tell everyone that they should do the research, and when they do, you say they are wrong"-

Really? Where did I say that?
Or do you mean research from an encyclopedia.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 8:41pm

Post 64 of 83

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Edins Vampire wrote:

I have never made it a secret that racists disgust me and they are lowest vile form of scum.

Edins Vampire wrote:

If that means I am discriminating, then I couldn't care less.
need help? just as TMM pointed, that right there is a contradiction.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 8:44pm

Post 65 of 83

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Edins Vampire wrote:

-"you seem to tell everyone that they should do the research, and when they do, you say they are wrong"-

Really? Where did I say that?
Or do you mean research from an encyclopedia.
research is research. you don't trust sidey's sources (id ont know what they are or what they're showing), well i dont trust your sources or you saying that you witnessed the trial. how do i know that you didn't just watch some special on the whole thing last night? i don't, so how is your opinion any different from other's posting?
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 8:48pm

Post 66 of 83

Hajiku_Flip

Force: 3786 | Joined: 2nd Jun 2002 | Posts: 1669

Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Need more help?

Racism = A form of discriminating you call "lowest vile form of scum."

Discrimination = What you yourself said you were doing.

Whoo! Now you have a nice big bag of ¬°CONTRADICTION!

Last edited Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 11:37pm; edited 4 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 8:53pm

Post 67 of 83

TMM

Force: 2288 | Joined: 10th Dec 2001 | Posts: 1241

Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Edins Vampire wrote:

How have I contradicted myself TMM.
Well, that's been answered already, twice now that cypher has said it again for you razz

Edins Vampire wrote:

On the one hand, you say you have no knowledge of any of this and are basing your facts on what we say on here yet at the same time, you are passing comment of believing so and so because of what they have said.
I take the side of the information that seems the most logical, the soruces from sidey r more likely to be accurate than the guardian, alos like cypher said, if all this was true, there would be a big press release etc of why arnie should NOT be voted into power...

Edins Vampire wrote:

You said that you believe Sideys sources.
Tell me then TMM, what are his sources other than an Encyclopedia?
Well, i'd value and encyclopedia over the guardian, for the reasons i stated earlier...

Edins Vampire wrote:

So you say I'm changing the subject?
How?
I mentioned Jorg Haider way back in the beginning of my posts.
I never said u were changing the subject, i said how you were changing ur aguement, after being proved wrong about waldheim, u seemed to move onto the next part of ur speech, well, that's how it seems to me...

Edins Vampire wrote:

Sidey is 17 right? That means when I was watching the trial on TV and reading about it in the paper, Sidey wasn't even born. Yet if he does a quick search on an engine, then whatever he finds must be the right thing instantly?
Back to the ageism, ur being discriminative on age aswell, sidey only listed one of his sources, he may know more, and have u not just stated u got all urs from google? i don't believe sidey just because of the reasons u have stated, i believe it because is seems more logical (for the record i am not a HUGE arnie fan)...

edins vampire wrote:

TMM, I'll value your opinion if you actually have one, and not one that is based on hanging on to the coat tails of others.
Are you not doing the same but with sources off the net, not just off the forum? ur looking at sources off the net, my sources came from sidey - what's the difference?

Edins Vampire wrote:

-"you seem to tell everyone that they should do the research, and when they do, you say they are wrong"-

Really? Where did I say that?
Or do you mean research from an encyclopedia.
I base my opinion on the sources sidey researched, u say i am wrong for believing this, even tho it is the research u suggested he did, now that seems to me u believe what was stated from the encyclopedia was incorrect...

TMM
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:00pm

Post 68 of 83

HandsomeScholars

Force: 208 | Joined: 18th Jun 2003 | Posts: 128

EffectsLab Lite User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: -1

I think what needs to happen is for that stripper to win the election, that outta teach L.A. not to elect people because there famous razz

But really Arnold is just a little pawn for the republican party, he listens to whatever they tell him to do, and does it. I think that is really messed up.. Guys think about it. if we start electing people because there the coolest person in hollwood and the bigest star/ your there biggest fan then the whole world will really be messed up. you ned to look into there poiltical backrounds and schooling etc. i mean if u let this happen we might as well give up all hope! honestly its just dumb...

And im still laughin that little Gary Coleman is running razz
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:02pm

Post 69 of 83

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Ok right. First lets clear up the Kurt Waldheim bit.

He was both president of Austria and former seceretary general of the United Nations.

The Nazi thing came out just after he became president and he was cleared by an internation hearing.

All this is slightly irrelevent since Arnie knew him before it all came out and he was a well respected international politician at that time.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:03pm

Post 70 of 83

TMM

Force: 2288 | Joined: 10th Dec 2001 | Posts: 1241

Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

SpikeCoFilms wrote:

if we start electing people because there the coolest person in hollwood and the bigest star/ your there biggest fan then the whole world will really be messed up.
We have already stated we are all against this sort of voting, but a very valid point...

TMM
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:05pm

Post 71 of 83

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

unless of course you'd vote for me if i ran for anything...because i'm the coolest. then it'd be okay wink
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:07pm

Post 72 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

The reason I keep adding to the post is that a comment is passed at me.
I'm hardly likely to sit back on it.

Again, I'm not here to change peoples minds.

As for the stereotyping, you guys need to open your eyes.
There are millions of people around the world who are on the anti-Nazi lobby who share the exact same opinion.
Those that extend it to racists, rapists, paedo's and killers.

Cypher: This isn't about the research.
It's the interpretation that is different.
Again, I've not told people to believe this or believe that.
Nor am I expecting a little sycophant brigade to boost me up.


As for if I saw a show last night? Couldn't care less.
That was a throwaway comment on my part.
At the end of the day, I don't believe you are fully aware of all the facts if any.
Like I have already said, I'll value an opinion based on research & fact.
It's the interpretation that I disagree with...which is the basis for every debate.


I'll leave this with you now.
Go read up on Haider and tell me how wonderful he is.
If I present my research, you don't believe it; If I don't you talk BS about it.
So go do your own research on it that way, I can't be accused of this, that & the other.


Hajiku; I could care less about discriminating against Racists in the sense that they are scum and followers of scum.
Go read some anti-nazi league stuff.


TMM: re: The gaurdian.
I'm getting worried about you here.
Like I have said several times now, once more just for you, it's not the paper, it's the article. Do you understand what I mean now?
Sideys encyclopedia is more likely to be accurate?
If that pleases you, go for it. Although it sounds very sycophantic now seeing as you know nothing on the subject as you said.

Re-read the google comment.
I haven't said that I just gotit from google.
Do you actually read the posts or skim thru?
I said I got it from various sources and a degree in 20th Century history.
Is that ok with you?
Yeah I know, a degree is worth jack compared to an encyclopedia.

As for why the media didn't pick up on it!!!
They did! You just missed the boat by a few years!
It came to light way back some 10 years.
It's what they blamed his flops on.

Regarding research. Do you know what a bias source is?
Do you know what a control source is?
You can't just read one or 2 things from the same control source.
You have to open the door to lots of different controls to get a whoile picture.
Anything less would just be a one sided story.

Why was goold old Waldheim banned from entering the US?


Again, I think there is way too much witch hunt sycophancy going on here.
You're beloved Arnie is being put under a different spotlight and you don't like it.
At the same time I am reading posts by people who have absolutely no idea who the players are but are saying so and so is right because of this, that or the other.

Next time, I'll talk about sticklebricks or suck up to someones greenscreem test.




Personally, I think Gary should get the job.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:12pm

Post 73 of 83

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

again your contradicting yourself, but ill let someone else point that out.

just one more thing as you clearly have nothing to say anymore except repeat the same old with different words (judging by how many times you said "again/like i said" or whatever.

At the end of the day, I don't believe you are fully aware of all the facts if any.
I think much less of your opinion.

oh and,

Personally, I think Gary should get the job.
i'm sorry, should we care? no, i dont think so. you are so clearly biased towards everything you say being right because of your 'research' that it doesn't matter what you think or why you think it.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:15pm

Post 74 of 83

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Now onto Jorg Heider.

He was the leader of the Freedom Party in Austria who were included in the coalition government which is what made all the fuss. Jorg Heider amongst other things promotes some of Hitlers views, is against immigration and pushing to expel both legal and illegal immigrants from Austria.

Not surprising that Arnie has met him seeing as he is another politician and Arnie has been interested in politics. This guy isn't a friend of Arnie, it only seems that they met to talk about politics. Hardly a crime and again doesn't mean he shares any of his views.

Arnie has since stated that he does not support him or share his views, which does seem to be the case.


So you see both of these are very tenuos links and not at all surprising since we knew Arnie has been interested in politics for a long time and prolly knows a whol load of Austrian politicians.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:16pm

Post 75 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -1

Well if we're being honest, I just think you're a sycophant.
Simple really.


By the way, regarding Haider and Arnie. According to Haider's spokesman Karl-Heinz Petritz, Jorg Haider would visit Arnie at home.

Yeah just politics. Arnie knew what he stood for and it wasn't until his foto was included in the rogues gallery that Arnie cut ties.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:27pm

Post 76 of 83

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

Tell you the truth, i didn't know what sychophant meant, so i checked it out. (i checked an online dictionary and a real dictionary at my home, webster's english dictionary, the geddes&grosset printed in 2001 incase you want to check if you don't believe my sources) and the definition i found is:

A servile self-seeker who attempts to win favor by flattering influential people.

now, tell me please because I'm oh-so interested...who am i trying to win favor from and what influential people am i flattering here? i don't recall saying that arnold is the greatest and should win... do you yourself know what the word means? i doesn't seem like that.

what i am finding you as is being very 'dense'. it has been shown to you be numerous people on this board that what you are saying sounds very conceited.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:31pm

Post 77 of 83

MechaForce

Force: 4654 | Joined: 3rd Aug 2001 | Posts: 1934

FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Rating: +1

You lost. Shut up. You're just repeating yourself

Last edited Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:32pm; edited 3 times in total.

Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:31pm

Post 78 of 83

Kid

Force: 4177 | Joined: 1st Apr 2001 | Posts: 1876

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User Windows User

Gold Member

Rating: +2

Your original post was intended to try and link Arnie with Nazis and make us think 'ooh is Arnie a Nazi'. Well this is just the sort of scaremongering and witchhuntery that strong anti- anything can lead to.

Edin from what appears you seem to be a strong anti-nazi. This is the contradiction. Being a Nazi isn't all about killing Jews. By hating all Nazi's you are becoming the very thing you dislike. Ok so being a Nazi isn't good, but people have a right to their views even if you don't agree with them.

In some parts of the country (UK) we have a real problem, with race clashes not just because of racists or the BNP but also because of gangs of minorities acting against racists and commiting racist acts themselves! Instead of simply having a breech of the law which can be cleared up we have riots, no go areas and higher general race related violence. Some anti-racist people may think that this sort of action is neccesary but it doesn't actually help at all because while it goes on racist acts can't be stamped out by the police but more importantly it builds up those barriers between the races.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:39pm

Post 79 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -5

Yes Kirill I am aware of what the word means.
I wont name the people whose back sides you wish to kiss as I wouldn't want to offend or ego boost.

Dense?
Me?
Thankyou little child. I am very happy with your summation.

Conceited? Oh dear, I better blame my sources for making me sound so.
Sorry to have offended your hero and I'm glad that you could jump on this little bandwagon.

I once said that this place had a liitle clique.
I feel vindicated.

The aim has been on me!
I'd rather people had just backed up Arnie/Waldheim & Haider with brilliant texts and source material but alas.


Anyway, if you guys are simply going to kiss arse and repeat yourselfs as much as you say I am repeating myself, then I'll leave this thread with you as you are clearly not interested in facts or simple debate and don't have the reasonable logic that goes with it.

A debate is fun. A witch hunt gets boring.

I noticed that Spike was given a -1. Why?
Just because he dared to speak against Arnie?
That's all he did.
Yet he gets a -1. So don't tell me there isn't any hero worship going on.

Anyway, I'll let you guys cut me up at your leisure.

I wont bother with this post anymore as too many sycophants, spoil the broth and I am amazed by certain braindead forumites that feel the need to say nothing at all but very loudly.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:42pm

Post 80 of 83

Coyote Moon

Force: 40 | Joined: 21st Jan 2002 | Posts: 66

Windows User

Member

Rating: -3

Mechaforce.
Like I care what you have to say considering you made racist remarks to me in the past! You're a joke.

Shut Up!
Oooh very scarey as I tremble in my seat.
Take your position as top dog and control your sycophants.


Kid: Racist t=attacks against each other?
Hardly.

I started this post by saying the whole thing seemed strange to me.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 9:48pm

Post 81 of 83

Cypher

Force: 3050 | Joined: 22nd Feb 2002 | Posts: 2126

EffectsLab Lite User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 4 Pro User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

Gold Member

Rating: +1

First off, let me say something that mecha would say, but not in big bold letters: by that post you have proven to be a complete dumbass. i know these forums are not a place for this kind of thing, but it has to be said.

Edin, you are a dumbass.

Edins Vampire wrote:

Yes Kirill I am aware of what the word means.
No you're not.

Edins Vampire wrote:

I wont name the people whose back sides you wish to kiss as I wouldn't want to offend or ego boost.
Why? because i'm not trying to 'ass kiss' (which is what you are saying).

Edins Vampire wrote:

I am very happy with your summation.
good, it seems that you do need things kept simple for you.

Edins Vampire wrote:

Sorry to have offended your hero and I'm glad that you could jump on this little bandwagon.
Anyone know what hero he's talking about?

Edins Vampire wrote:

The aim has been on me!
Well, you ARE wrong.

Edins Vampire wrote:

Anyway, I'll let you guys cut me up at your leisure.
Why? because you're wrong? good, i say.

Edins Vampire wrote:

I wont bother with this post anymore
Good riddance. he finally realizes the error of his ways.
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 11:10pm

Post 82 of 83

Sollthar

Force: 13360 | Joined: 30th Oct 2001 | Posts: 6094

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 2 Pro User FXhome Movie Maker Windows User MacOS User

SuperUser

Why not try to turn this into a friendly debate again? Anyone? smile
Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2003, 11:12pm

Post 83 of 83

Joshua Davies

Force: 25400 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 3029

VisionLab User VideoWrap User PhotoKey 5 Pro User MuzzlePlug User PowerPlug User PhotoKey 3 Plug-in User FXpreset Maker Windows User MacOS User

FXhome Team Member

What on earth is going on....

Arnie rules, he is the only real super hero in the world. Gun laws would also run, get rid of the damn things if you ask me.

Arnie seems to be a great guy with some solid values... If there is anyone that knows him I would be interested to know what they have to say, but a bunch of tabloid rubbish isn't gonna change my mind.

If I could vote for him I would.

P.S. Did Edins say that Kid was trying to brown nose? Erm, that won't happen.