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Political Correctness

Is political correctness good?

Yes. But I am aware that you might disagree, and I respect that.19%[ 4 ]
Hell No!67%[ 14 ]
Not politically correct, just not unnecessarily rude14%[ 3 ]

Total Votes : 21

Posted: Mon, 8th Sep 2003, 11:03pm

Post 1 of 62

sidewinder

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It's been a while since I've posted a topic...

The forums are feeling a little stale lately. A lot of people feel the urge to tell one another that they need to tone down their comments when there's the slightest aggressiveness or blunt honesty in them. It's kind of starting to wipe the spirit out of any debate, and in all truthfulness, there haven't been any real debates since the "Arnold for Governor" topic. Any time someone is critical of something, people assault them with "respect for others" and "self-esteem is important".


-

To put it bluntly, I think many of you should stop telling everyone how to act (I know that statement is hypocritical, but it's the only way to say it). I'm sure many of us get plenty of moral lessons from our parents, and I certainly don't need more of it. If you want tell me that I'm acting arrogant, go right ahead. But I'm getting a feeling of everyone acting superior to everyone else. Many posts aren't offensive or uncalled for, and they back themselves up. Granted, some might be harsh, but they're honest. These boards are getting so politically correct that they are boring.

Don't apologize. Back your stuff up, and have some confidence in what you type. That's why Mecha is considerred the tough guy. He never really backed down from critical posts, though he also never threw unwarranted insults arround.

Matt Pugh has been so assualted by those with superior "sensitivity awareness" that he has been broken down. Granted, random insults aren't necessary, but an insult backed up with a reason isn't an insult. It's criticism.

The same goes for cantaclaro, Ice_Man, Xcession, supersmasher, and Fight. They have generally had a more brutal honesty in their posts, and in turn get assaulted for it.

Quote time!
(posters remain anonymous...because I don't feel like typing names...)

I don't think it's necessay for such a large put down?
dont be like that on this board please.
So just dont be so harsh please thank you!
First of all Xcession, dont be so rude.
Go ahead and disagree, and feel free to say why, but please don't tell me how to write my posts. Let the Mods do their work, folks.
Posted: Mon, 8th Sep 2003, 11:12pm

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Spanish Prisoner

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I agree with you, but there must be a balance between helping and putting people down. Some people can't handle the hard way, so we must give them some confidence. I never give a dishonest critisism, but if I critisize someone, I try to make him understand, there is a next time and a learning curve. There are many here, who are very harsh and brutal and thats correct as long as its not personal, because there are others who make the one whos critzisized feel better. Thats the balance that usually rules, but I agree, most of the people are afraid to even give some hard critics, because many of us know, hard critics hurt. But many of us know, hard critics are better then some fantasy talk.

So I just want to say, that not everyone can write a brutal critic and not everyone can be nice, but the combination of both will do a good mix. I've been in this community for only 2 weeks now, and so I cannot tell how it was before. Thats why I dont want to say more than this: "I think the balance is not really out here, but it will come back, surely."


Greets
Spanish Prisoner
Posted: Mon, 8th Sep 2003, 11:27pm

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jjuerss

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I agree with some aspects and disagree with other aspects of your post.

I agree that we should encourage healthy debate. I also believe criticism of each others work is vital if we are to continue to produce better and better films. Friendly banter amongst ourselves is essential to keep these forums light hearted and fun, however...

I don't believe this is the place for some of the abusive and downright offensive comments I have seen from some people. They serve only to upset people and start needless flame wars that achieve nothing.

I thought the 'Arnie for Govenor' was a great thread on the whole because it was a good debate and some serious issues were discussed and some light hearted comments were also made.

We ALL have the right to our own opinions based on whatever beliefs we may have but we must respect and tollerate others that may have different views and beliefs and not try to shout them down or brow beat them to our own way of thinking.

I suspect that I may be one of the older members of this community (and I'm only 31) and believe that some of the more heated comments are down to youthful exuberance. I understand this (I was a teenager once myself) but I think it is appropriate that when some people cross the line they should be gently reminded to tone down their comments before the forum degenerates into a meaningless shouting match.

This is my opinion anyway. biggrin

Cheers,

JJ
Posted: Mon, 8th Sep 2003, 11:38pm

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AndrewtheActorMan

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I must say Sidey, that i would agree with you. At first when you and mechaforce showed up commenting on my little test clips a while back, i thought, c'mon, be respectful. Then, hate to say this, and i saw some things by others on here. I thought to myself, "allright, i dont want my stuff to look like that... do i really want my stuff to look that bad??"


also, at the same time, i was thinking, "Wow! Now thats sumthing i would like to do, thats cool!"


i, myself, am trying to get used to comments, good, and bad. I also would like to say that lots of people make good, useful comments on hear. I think thats cool that you can have a place to turn for reviewing...this isn't one of the "meanest" forums on the net, in fact, i think it is one of the nicest!

So, to sum it all up, thanks for ur comments, and i hope others can understand what i am saying....

as for the plugin requests... dont get me started.........

just use a real freak'n gun....not a plugin tard


Andrew
Posted: Mon, 8th Sep 2003, 11:59pm

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MechaForce

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The best plugin request was one for a Lord Of The Rings battle plugin.
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 12:16am

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AndrewtheActorMan

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Your kidding me!! I must go find that one....

then again, i prob. shouldnt be talking, i dont have the program yet...but i am getting it (hopefully) once i get my camera back from the shop, and i can actually do something with it. biggrin
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 12:27am

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Coureur de Bois

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Well, I have to agree with you Sidey.

I think people should just keep thier comments between a "I don't want to hurt anyones feelings and I'm a pussy because I won't communicate how I really feel" level and a "If it's not my way, then its totally wrong, no questions asked, and I'm gonna tell it to you like a big jerkoff" level.

I think you can kinda see what I mean wink
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 12:29am

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er-no

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I'll always say what I think.

Be honest but don't swear, and also take into consideration who you are replying and what you are commenting on. I'll be harsh if it deserves it.
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 12:53am

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JohnCarter

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A good critic, even a harsh one, doesn't need to be rude, demeaning or offensive or even worse, insulting. I sometimes give pretty harsh criticism, but I always back it up, but I never resort to meanness to get my point across.

'Nuff said.
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 1:12am

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sidewinder

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We ALL have the right to our own opinions based on whatever beliefs we may have but we must respect and tollerate others that may have different views and beliefs and not try to shout them down or brow beat them to our own way of thinking.
We do have a right to our opinions, but I disagree with your statement that all opinions must be respected. That is not only impossible, but a bad goal to strive for.

Now, I'll go into my reasoning in a moment, but let me just say that, even though I may not respect all opinions, I don't need to disregard manners and I don't have to be a prick.

Now...

Some opinions are wrong. believe it or not, it is possible to have a wrong opinion.

Proof:

You have the opinion that all opinions are correct. I have an opinion that yours is wrong. Therefore, we have a paradox, meaning that the initial assumption is incorrect.

Same for respect. If you respect all opinions, and my opinion is that your opinion deserves no respect, then you can't really achieve your original assumption.

-

It's a nice thing to say, and it sure sounds good, But...no. Not all opinions are right, nor do they all deserve respect. And if I encounter an opinion I disagree with (i.e. I think is wrong), I am going to try to persuade the person to think otherwise...Like I just did with your opinion. smile
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 1:28am

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CoolKabe

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[quote="sidewinder"]

You have the opinion that all opinions are correct. I have an opinion that yours is wrong. Therefore, we have a paradox, meaning that the initial assumption is incorrect.

Same for respect. If you respect all opinions, and my opinion is that your opinion deserves no respect, then you can't really achieve your original assumption.
Ok, "Mr. Architect." wink All you need are some "er-go's," and "visi-vsi's" here. razz

-Later,
Adam
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 1:32am

Post 12 of 62

sidewinder

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heh.


Oh, and offending someone is okay, as long as it's their fault. smile
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 1:43am

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Aculag

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sidewinder wrote:

Oh, and offending someone is okay, as long as it's their fault. smile
I don't care what the circumstances are. If someone gets offended by someone, it'll always be the offendee's fault, not the offender. For instance: Say I'm talking to Jane.

Me: Say, Jane, your legs look really good today.

Jane: You were checking me out?

Me: No, it's not like I was looking.

Jane: So I'm not attractive enough for you to look at?

Me: What? Of course you are!

Jane: So you WERE checking me out!

You see? Jane is offended by a simple complement. It all depends on who you're talking to of course, as different people are offended by different things, but it's the principle of the thing. I say, political correctness only exists to make people feel better. I'm sure there are others who feel much differently, and may be offended by me saying that, whereas Jane, on the other hand is offended by something that, by saying, meant no offense.

BAM!

Oh, and I don't like being censored by political correctness. Nearly every Idea I have for a film that I want to make someday has something that WILL offend people. And I don't want to go for shock value there, I want to bring back the old school comedy/ideals of people like Mel Brooks. The man is a comedic genius, plain and simple. But you try and make a movie like Blazing Saddles or The Producers or any of his other stuff nowadays, and people are going to be offended by it, and it likely won't be released. SAD SAD SAD. I have much more to say, but I KNOW FOR A FACT it'll offend SOMEONE, because... well, forget it.

Last edited Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 1:50am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 1:46am

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JohnCarter

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sidewinder wrote:

heh.


Oh, and offending someone is okay, as long as it's their fault. smile
That leaves everything open to interpretation. A film may offend you

but that doesn't mean you have to be a jerk about it. I think I somewhat see where you are going with this topic but as much as you are usually capable to conduct a brilliant debate, I am not sure where you are going this time.
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 1:52am

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Aculag

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John, this is already a brilliant debate. I'm just waiting to watch the accusations start flying and people getting offended at everything. That's my prediction. biggrin
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 1:58am

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JohnCarter

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Re-reading myself, I realize that my past comment may lead to confusion, something I was just pointing out to Sidewinder. tard

So I guess, this is what I don't really get from this topic:

Are you requesting permission to be a jerk as long as you feel it's justified?

And what does it have to do with being politically correct? Being politically correct is an admittedly VERY annoying trait in a person, but it has nothing to do with throwing insults, being an @$$hole or any other types of behaviors. Politically correct means finding ways of saying things in order to not offend. I don't really see that in the forums. I see for the most part people trying to genuinely help each others with criticism that is for the most part constructive, even if it's not always nice. But not being nice doesn't mean being a jerk... You can say many things that aren't nice without being impolite, insulting or worse... So for me, it's a moot point.

But in the end, it will always be only my opinion... wink

Last edited Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 1:59am; edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 1:59am

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sidewinder

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That leaves everything open to interpretation.
That's kind of my point. Taking offense to something is like a personal opinion...and you know what I mean by that.

The board mods will decide the level of "offense" to be permitted on a forum. Without any risk of offense, things get cold and dead. With too much, no one participates.

There is not a high enough "offense level" to keep things interesting as of now. this is mainly because of everyone being so hyper-sensitive.


-


I think that clarifies my point much better than that whole essay I wrote to start this topic...
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 2:03am

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Aculag

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Exactly. And that kind of echoes real life. Everyone is so scared of offending anyone that they just don't say anything. If more people stood up and just spouted, things would be a lot more interesting.
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 2:05am

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Coureur de Bois

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Aculag wrote:

...If more people stood up and just spouted, things would be a lot more interesting.
for sure man. Let's all raise our glasses to that! biggrin
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 2:05am

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sidewinder

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I just saw that other post...

I'm not asking permission to be a jerk... smile

I'm saying that everyone is telling everyone else to tread carefully, and I'm trying to make the point that it's reaching a point where it's killing interest in the forums.

Raising the level of "offense" doesn't mean these forums need to be obscene, but I wouldn't mind seeing some thoughts flow more freely without everyone poo-pooing it.
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 2:06am

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sidewinder

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3 posts with the same message...I gotta type faster.
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 2:07am

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JohnCarter

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sidewinder wrote:


I think that clarifies my point much better than that whole essay I wrote to start this topic...
I agree with that. It does.

But I would like to point out that the mods have removed quite a bit of posts from some of the people you mentionned in your opening statement.

If you say trust the mods, then they too feel that some people are being unnecessarily offensive. Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating a peace and love forum, I am just saying that I find some of the comments are juvenile, immature and unnecessarily rude or offensive, most of the time it seems, in an ill fated attempt to be "cool".

I say you can present harsh things and give intense criticism without being demeaning. Some mmovies here for exemple are sometimes abysmally bad. I don't see the constructivism in saying to that person to never shoot again. That goes against the spirit of the site. I believe it's important to try and find out why, what means where available, what the person tried or hoped to achieve, etc. That is the basis of a meaningful debate. Otherwise, it's just throwing insults.

But I will also give you a point: some people see insults where there is none too here...
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 2:19am

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sidewinder

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Well, take this example:

Recently, someone has been asking for a lot of info on a topic, when they could instead be researching it rather than trying to get us to do it. Also, they could experiment and try to find their own solution, when after numerous tries on these forums, no one has been able to help. Instead, they keep pestering for more info, basically asking someone to experiment for them.

Now, someone could say "stop being lazy". That would be an honest post. Someone else could say "use your head and THINK". That would also be an honest post. If people were to do either, they would be criticized by others.

Many people say a movie is garbage, and back up their post. Aculag did that for the "Button" movie. He was then assaulted by other users for being offensive.


I'm asking people to stop being so uptight, and let those comments fly, because in all truthfulness, they are neither uncalled-for, nor are they put in for blatant flaming.
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 2:21am

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Aculag

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John, some movies are abysmally bad, and sometimes their creators don't get any better at it. That's NOT because people have told them that they suck, because that's not true. Most of us here are extremely willing to help if the person obviously needs it, but sometimes they don't listen to the help that is given them (darth_paul, anyone? Sorry, kid but it's true.). I'm saying that people make bad movies because they're unwilling to learn. They want to make a movie, but they don't want to go through the proceces required to do so. They just want it done. Wow. Off topic.
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 2:31am

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Spanish Prisoner

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hey guys, political correctness starts with this bullshit: "@$$hole" (quoting JohnCarter, thanks for this, you've inspried me for this biggrin )

I mean, hell man, I can write asshole or @$$hole, it's the same word and has the same meaning, only one is political correctness in its full meaning and the other is just offending people.

It's like in america, and be sure, I love america, America is MY favourite country, not because of the damn shit government, because of everything else, where everyone is offended by some nudity and sex. What the hell. We are having sex everyday.... damn!!! But violance is accepted.

You know guys, thats life!! You ALWAYS get offended by someone in your life, it doesn't matter, because, it is life.... Life is so much more complex. Everyone has his own opinion and thoughts and feelings, we cannot control them, thats why life is so exciting, thats why we are having the debate.

An opinion is someone's thoughts and feelings, and of course, not everyone is going to agree with it, otherwise this would be the most boring world to be living in. That's why we are making movies, thats why we are trying to tell stories to each other! We want to express ourselves and to show our way of showing our own expreriences. And because of that, we have to know, we are just human beings and want to fullfill ourselves, and that hurts. And I have to repeat, it's just someone's opinion, even if it's your mothers. And that makes this world so intersting, so wonderful colorful. That's why drama, comedy and tragedy co-exist. Otherwise we would have only one genre, believe me.

For example, this movie: "The contract", which I've watched yesterday here at fxhome.com: I thought this movie wasn't really good and I wrote some really harsh critics (imho), but still I think the guy who made the movie won't gonna die, he will go on to make the next movie based on my comments or on his own beliefs, that doesn't bother me in any way, I waas just expressing my feelings. I mean, when you make a movie, you know clearly that there can't the perfect picute, because you can't reach everyone's taste.

Hey, I was talking to Sollthar to change several things in his screenplay for "Face to Face", but he thought it was allright and he shot the film like he wrote it, without changing anything I recommended and when I saw the film, I was inspired and thrilled of the end result, though there are still some things I would have done different. But it's not my movie and it doesn't hurt Sollhthar or me, because we are different people with different taste and opinions, I repeat Opinions.

Thats why we shouldn't debate about political correctness, because in the end, it doesn't matter. There are always people who try to be nice and there are always people who are hurting more than they intended to. Only because there wasn't a really good debate since "arnold for governor", doesn't mean the world ends, because you just started an incredible good and well discussed topic... and that proves the balance always comes back.

Last edited Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 2:41am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 2:36am

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JohnCarter

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I agree with both your last points, but I must say that I also have seen first movies being trashed severely without the person having a chance to do something else. That is what I am against.

"Use your head and THINK" and other assorted banter are not insults or demeaning to me. It's something you may say in a normal conversation. Especially if you are getting annoyed...

And there are annoying people!

Maybe you are right and there is a wave of sensitivity just now. It may be in reaction to the previous wave, where it seemed that a lot of posts were rude and insulting. I believe somebody even posted about it, wondering what was up with it.

I also did see some posts where a person was commenting in a fairly decent manner and was told he was rude... So I see where you are coming from.

And to Aculag: I am not saying that if someone doesn't improve or want to, we shouldn't point it out! I just think that there are ways to say things without being necessarily offensive. Whenever you make a movie, a certain amount of efforts are necessary. You can chose to work hard and long, like Sollthar, b4, Mecha and Sidewinder or even myself, or you can chose to post yet another pointless test... Whatever you do, an effort was made and at least the first time, it deserves respect for the sole reason that somebody finished the damn thing! If after a few attempts, the person doesn't even try to fix it's mistake, just give up. That's what I do! It's pointless to try anyway, you've already tried for a while! There's no point in keeping hammering it. People who truly care about what they do eventually feed on the criticism and try to improve. THat's the people you focus on!
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 2:46am

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JohnCarter

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I wasn't being politically correct when I wrote "@$$hole", that's how I write it all the time...

That being said, it's not politically correct because it's the same word.

If I wanted to be PC, I would have to say something like "anal aperture" or some nonsense like that.

It's like saying that a person with dwarfism is "vertically challenged" and other idiotic terms...

That being said, it's only opinions as you expressed. But my opinion remains that you can say things without being rude... Hence my @$$hole...

wink
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 2:47am

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JohnCarter

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And I guess Sidewinder has succeeded in creating a healthy, fiercely debated topic!

biggrin
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 2:49am

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Spanish Prisoner

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JohnCarter wrote:

I agree with both your last points, but I must say that I also have seen first movies being trashed severely without the person having a chance to do something else. That is what I am against.

yeah, for exampel my first test with alamDV. I have a rating of 0.5 right now by 2 goldmembers. One who gave me 0 points without commenting it. That doesnt really matter me, because I know I can to better and I know it was just test. But there are movies out there who get the greatest reviews and five-point ratings, but when you look at the chart you see some people rated the movie with 0 points, without commenting on it, thats rude and mean. If someone at least says what he thinks, I will accept that, but a rating for bad without commenting it, is not good.

But who cares? biggrin
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 2:50am

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Spanish Prisoner

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JohnCarter wrote:

And I guess Sidewinder has succeeded in creating a healthy, fiercely debated topic!

biggrin
yeah, like I said, his topic is some kinda senseless or a paradox biggrin
he complains about not getting enough depate-topics and creates one with it. biggrin
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 3:02am

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JohnCarter

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Spanish Prisoner wrote:



yeah, for exampel my first test with alamDV. I have a rating of 0.5 right now by 2 goldmembers. One who gave me 0 points without commenting it. That doesnt really matter me, because I know I can to better and I know it was just test. But there are movies out there who get the greatest reviews and five-point ratings, but when you look at the chart you see some people rated the movie with 0 points, without commenting on it, thats rude and mean. If someone at least says what he thinks, I will accept that, but a rating for bad without commenting it, is not good.
Yeah, I had that happen to me too and I find that frustrating. I don't mind the zeroes, I would just LOVE to know why!!!! As well, I'd love to know why people give a 5, something I believe should be a rare occurence! If you bother to vote, you should comment on it, that's what I think!

But in the end, it's all pretty meaningless, as you point out... Hehehehe. THis is a very paradoxal debate!
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 3:03am

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MechaForce

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You're not a loser, you're just a uniquely fortuned individual on an alternative career path!

(That goes out to no one in particular)
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 3:07am

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Magic_man12

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Hey All

Sidewinder is totally correct. When people receive rude/disparaging comments, yeah so you feel like crap and you think your movie blows. Suck it up! Think about it, so a guy you dont know, GOD knows how far away, and however old, doesn't like what you made..... Take whatever you can from the persons comments and just build on it.

No matter who it is, anyone can get critisism. Whether about a movie or a comment. Say what you have to say, if the person doesnt like it, then i think screw em - lol . They'll live. No one can HONESTLY say they take any critisism on here THAT personally/seriously (ie im going to my room to cry)

All in all sidewinder is right

-MAGIC
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 3:07am

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Aculag

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Ok, SP, your rant gave me another idea. And that is this:

If I go make a movie that has sex and violence and language in it, that's ok. The sex scenes are going to be more censored than the violence, because, for some damn reason, people are more offended by sex than they are by violence. Which, in turn would leave me to believe that more people would be out commiting assaults than there are people at home doing what they do between sheets. Which is not correct. I guarantee if you polled every resident of a large city, 99.9% of them would enjoy sex more than they enjoy shooting someone in the face with a nail gun. So why is sex more offensive? I don't have an answer to that. I don't find sex on film offensive at all. Maybe a little embarassing, but not offensive. On the same note, I also and not incredibly offended by violence. Eye of the beholder maybe.

Can ANYONE offer a good reason people are more offended by sex than they are violence?
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 3:12am

Post 35 of 62

Magic_man12

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MAYBE its because they are seeing sex and are like F***...why cant i be doing that right now...so they get pissed

when they see people gettin killed etc....they dont want to be doing that (or doing it as much as sex) so it doesn't bother them as much ..(+ were violence is used alot more so we are more desensitised to it)


-MAGIC
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 3:32am

Post 36 of 62

sidewinder

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yeah, like I said, his topic is some kinda senseless or a paradox.
he complains about not getting enough depate-topics and creates one with it.
I did that on purpose. I hoped this would turn into a debate. smile

But notice one thing. Has anyone said I am wrong? Has anyone directly disagreed with me, and trashed my viepwoint accordingly? It would be perfectly fair, and I would in fact enjoy seeing something of the sort. But, while many of these posts are very intelligent, and respectful, which is nice, there isn't much "spice" outside of pure intellectual competition.

I enjoy intellectual competition as much as the next guy...er...you get what I mean, but everyone has been pretty careful thus far to keep things from getting heated up. Emotions are kept at a pretty low level, though I can sense more of it in the later posts by JohnCarter and Co.

Yet no one has come out and said "Sidewinder, you are so worng on this issue that it boggles my mind! How could you think in such a way, when this point here in fact proves it wrong! etc..."

Instead I get a more respectful "Though your points are valid, I feel that there is more to it than meets the eye".

The latter may indeed be more respectful, but outside of it's worth for pure debate, it is rather uninteresting. I would gladly trade it off for my first example any day, and I'm wondering if many of you feel the same? And if you don't, I wonder how you will tell me otherwise?
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 3:33am

Post 37 of 62

Aculag

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Haha. Good idea, magic man. I bet that's it!
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 4:46am

Post 38 of 62

N8man

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Sidey your wrong and all your ideas are stupid!
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 5:11am

Post 39 of 62

supersmasher

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Man Sidewinder you got it all wrong...this is a ridiculous topic and has no point of even being posted. 1. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. 2. That opinion must be respected. 3. N8man go to sleep this is grown-up time no 10 year olds allowed. Sidey you can't say that just because some people have dumb opinions that they aren't entitled to have them respected. I'm sure that a bunch of them racist bigot anuses in Montgomery, Alabama back in the 1950's/ 60's thought that MLK Jr. had dumb/ pointless opinions but he was just showing them the inherent wrongness in their own opinions...If your opinion is that my opinion deserves no respect then I respect your opinion for what it is an OPINION. I'm sleepy and in a bit of a stuper right now hope this post makes at least a bit of sense,

Super confused
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 5:28am

Post 40 of 62

N8man

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so this is such a ridiculous topic, right?...but it he seemed to get u involved and speaking ur opinion....so i guess he did accompilish what he started out to do..hmmm imagine that (and the only reason i made that previous post was to get someone like u to resond....i was bored cool )
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 5:38am

Post 41 of 62

cantaclaro

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Man I thought he said that 10 year olds should STFU and go to sleep...N8man have you ever heard of playing devils advocate...im pretty sure that is what supersmasher was doing...I don't really care but you just replying to get attention sounds like more of a personal problem if you ask me...maybe you should go see a CHILD psychologist or something....
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 5:42am

Post 42 of 62

N8man

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wow...that was productive....i see a whole new light now. u ever think that i might be playing devils avocite also...


and i know the next comment will be an attack on me and about how childish these post are...but making a post making fun of that is being just as childish
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 6:35am

Post 43 of 62

Aculag

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Haha, nice work sidey. Now everyone hates eachother, just because they can!
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 8:01am

Post 44 of 62

Mellifluous

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I've agreed a lot with what John Carter's said & here's my views on this.

I don't think political correctness comes into this. These forums are all about being pleasant to one another, that is what a real community is.

And I don't mean a politically correct, extreme stifled community of niceness.

The mods don't delete all unpleasant posts. From what I can see, they only delete posts that actually attack another member of the community, call them names, or telling them where to stuff their...whatever.

I don't like posts that are unpleasant but I can live with them if they actually say something constructive. Personally I don't see why some people on these forums have to act in a certain way because they blatantly disregard people's feelings.

In my view it's unnecessary to reply in a certain way.

Being polite is not being POLITICALLY CORRECT. Neither is not calling coloured people names, or not making derogatory remarks about, for example, fat people. It's just showing you're a person who are aware that these are people like yourself you are interacting with, & you treat them as you would like to be responded to.
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 8:46am

Post 45 of 62

Sollthar

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Rating: +2

Hehe, I enjoyed reading through this and here is my opinion:


First of all, I think political correctness is one of the most stupid things ever invented. I actually collect political correctness terms because they're so stupid they're actually amusing. My favorite one is shopflifter, wich is an "extraordinary costumer"...
And if you call someone stupid or mentally challenged, it makes no difference, you still say the same and think the same.

But to the point.

Being offended is hardly a logical consequence. People are offended when you hit their feelings with something, mainly based on their current situation and their experience in the past. Something that is hardly predictable and, even more important, hardly avoidable.
Even through an internet message board, most communication runs between the lines. People interprate what other people say and will judge them - same as in real life - by their pure feelings about how they think they are.
Now some people here you'll find nice, some people you'll find stupid, and some you might even find assholes.

Most of those "rants" or "please be friendly" posts I've seen the last couple of days seem to emerge from exactly that. Some people seem to overreact to things other specific people say, this goes for both sides - the insulter as well as the insulted. Wich is - as bad as it may sound, a normal thing really when so many people get together.

And again that we just write and read together without even seeing each others, there are a lot of communicative things lost. And many people simply can't write that good. And I don't mean grammar-wise, but simply they can't put things into an understandable sentence. And as you have noone you whose face or body you could watch or voice you could listen to, this is getting even more complicated.

I dare to say eveyone here has pissed at least 10 people off in his live without really understanding why. Hell I sure have. smile
So I think the best way is just ignoring those are talk back normally or even, be amused. If someone clearly has no manners, than we mods will take care of him, thats what we are for. And for sure I don't mean to give everyone a free pass to be a prick and neither did Sidey. But counterreaction to every single insult would just be pointless.

Or if you counterreact, win the conversation cause you're smarter, not cause you insult back. wink
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 10:25am

Post 46 of 62

otteypm

Force: 1494 | Joined: 29th Mar 2001 | Posts: 775

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I remember when I was at school and new rules came out for report cards which prevented teachers from writing negative comments about pupils.

Even the laziest most disruptive pupils had to have positive comments written about them.

"Billy has succesfully managed to turn up on Mondays, sometimes Tuesdays too."

I think I have only commented negatively on one persons film, that was because I thought he was capable of doing a better job, I made a lot of negative comments and gave my reasons for them.

Looking back through some comments on my own films I found one that simple said "this is s**t" no reasons given, that annoyed me as I wanted to know why.

In my opinion you can say any damn thing you like as long as you justify yourself, and by justifying yourself you will either expose yourself as someone who is intelligent and giving well thought out opinions or as a spiteful little moron who just wants to hurl abuse.
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 11:17am

Post 47 of 62

Simon K Jones

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Rating: +1

I think we all agree that political correctness is an absurd device, used in an attempt to avoid any accidental offence - but more often resulting in a highly patronising alternative.

As for over-sensitivity - well, it is certainly an issue. We can see it everywhere these days, unfortunately. In fact, a school in the UK has stopped having its annual Sports Day, because they were worried about the kids being upset if they lost in any of the events.

People are terrified of offending other people these days, mainly due to our overly litigious society - one wrong move and you get sued all the way to the moon, or you get put in prison simply for defending yourself. It's a silly situation.

As has already been pointed out, it is all about catching a balance. Just a few weeks back we had a series of posts complaining about how 'nasty' this forum had become (evidently by people who have never experienced what most internet forums are like...!) - as a result, perhaps everyone is now being overly careful about what they say.

Essentially, just go about your business however you see fit. Act as you would in the rest of your life. There's no need to start self-censoring yourselves - if somebody has a problem they can talk to a Mod, who will have a look at the matter.

Life is about winning and losing. Schools and parents seem determined to shield their kids these days from the 'losing' aspect of life - but it's inevitable. At some point, things go wrong. The important thing is that you then pick yourself up and do better next time. I worry that we have an incoming generation of young people who will have been shielded from the realities of life - so when they hit adulthood, it's going to be a real shock. The sooner people can get to grips with 'losing', the quicker they can turn it around to 'winning'.
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 7:49pm

Post 48 of 62

Spanish Prisoner

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I remember the Acadamy Awards a few years back, when they played the nominated song of "South Park: The Movie" and all the offending words and expressions were changed into something nicer. At least Robin Williams made fun out of it while singing the castrated song. But hey, what the heck is this about nominating a song and then listen to a different version at the show. It's like women, who at first say they love you for you being yourself and then later they want you to change so many different things about you, you would be an entirely different person then. Political correctness is bullshit, crap, it's hurts art, it hurts our way of making movies, it destroys our sense for life...

but hey, who cares?? biggrin
Posted: Tue, 9th Sep 2003, 11:42pm

Post 49 of 62

Coldfuse

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Aight ive read the start and some quick skips through the post. i see sidwinder has a quote of mine. I think you are all forgetting what this site is for. Yes i do think that alot of the time critisim is good. If u actaually would notice that what the guy had said to a NEW member here was totally uncalled for.
this is the most disturbing film i've ever seen. you spent your time making this?
If we all start being really really harsh to people. if anything it will put them off from making movies and sharing. There isnt a thing about beating down on someone. and respect is number one word. just because YOU feel the boards are getting flat, isnt exactly a reason to be able to rip someones work apart.

Theres not to say that you cant say that the work someone had done, was boring then exaplain why you thought this, like i do with all my critisim posts. But more then anything, things like sarcasim can be very offensive especially to new people. were all here as a community so that means we all have to work together. just because u dont like somethign doesnt give u the right to be harsh. if u dont like it dont come here. peopel pay to use this and shouldnt get pounded on.

I think when u are critising pieces of work, you need to be very careful what you say. many have put hard work into what they have done. they have put time and effort and then to be bashed about it, because u feel you have the right to, isnt fair on that person who has allowed to keep this community running now is it, and who has payed to use it?

I dont think its right here to start making a dictatorship of if u dont like it deal with it. ive seen it in other messageboards and i will confront it. if u dont like being respectful then you aint gonna get it back from me simple as!
Posted: Wed, 10th Sep 2003, 12:25am

Post 50 of 62

4036Douglas

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hmm... didnt know how many people enjoyed my topic on arnie for govenor... biggrin
Posted: Wed, 10th Sep 2003, 2:06am

Post 51 of 62

sidewinder

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First off, ColdFuse, it wasn't "uncalled for". The first thing I noticed is that the mods haven't deleted Xcession's post.

Secondly, Xcession didn't take any personal shots at the creator, but instead said that the movie sucked, or in other words, that the creator shouldn't spend time on projects like that one.

So what if it was a little offensive? that's one of my main points! You get all worked up about posts like that one, and it isn't even directed towards you. If after watching that movie, Xcession had the impression that it sucked, he can go right ahead and say so. It's pure honesty. So what if the post was offensive? You seem to advocate clearing it all out so that no one's feelings are hurt.



But more then anything, things like sarcasim can be very offensive especially to new people.
You know what? Sarcasm is something that makes wrtiting interesting. If you take offense, don't lecture us on properwtiquette like you have it all figured out. Like Tarn said, people will lose in life. Not everything will feel good. If you are getting your panties in a bunch over a little sarcasm, I'd recommend that you avoid talking to people.


were all here as a community so that means we all have to work together.
That sure sounds nice, doesn't it? Except for the fact that people disagree...And that some users may dislike other users...

just because u dont like somethign doesnt give u the right to be harsh.
No, that gives me every right to be harsh. You will not improve if people lie to you. And on top of that, some stuff is so bad that you can't be freindly about it. You think to yourself "I just took 20 minutes to download and watch this, and it was a total waste of my time."

If you dislike something, don't beat around the bush. Just come right out and say it. Moral lessons from people like you scare other users into writing their true feelings. If I can't hear what people truly thought, there's no point for me to ever look at a movie review, since there will be NOTHING to read.

if u dont like it dont come here.
No...If you can't stand lowering your ego or self-esteem to accept a harsh criticism or comment, it is you who should stop visiting. Don't arrive on these forums and start telling other people how to act in order to change them to your ideal standard. Instead, adapt yourself to the environment of the forums.

I think when u are critising pieces of work, you need to be very careful what you say. many have put hard work into what they have done.
Not true either. Most pieces of crap have had no time put into them at all. I see very few poor pieces where the creaotr has actually put in time and effort.

because u feel you have the right to, isnt fair on that person who has allowed to keep this community running now is it, and who has payed to use it?
I feel I have the right to be harsh on someone? Yeah...I do. I feel that I have the right to freedom of speech. I don't have the right to be a jackass, but nonetheless, I should certainly not be banned from blatantly saying "This movie sucked". Oh, and people don't pay to join this community.


I dont think its right here to start making a dictatorship of if u dont like it deal with it. ive seen it in other messageboards and i will confront it. if u dont like being respectful then you aint gonna get it back from me simple as!
I don't have any problem being respectful. Keep in mind, though, not everything deserves respect. I'm not quite sure what you mean by a dictatorship, but if you don't like it, why don't you deal with it? why me?
Posted: Wed, 10th Sep 2003, 2:32am

Post 52 of 62

Coldfuse

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I think some one like u, sidewinder, is just full of crap. Sorry to say ur not the only one here. and if it is peopls first go at making movies you cant say to them u wasted ur time. just because u make movies, which are supposed to be GOOD u get such a big ego about. i think if anything ur getting to big for ur boots.

What you need to do is to calm down. Yes this is a community, yes others are here to show off work, that ok might not be of a cinematic style but then is everyones? is ur's? this is amature film making. were hear to help people. not to diss them down. Ur just being a prat now. I mean if anything i thought u would be one of the more respected people for being nice, instead ur acting imature and foolish. Bascially what u have written is a damn excusse to give people hell, and then u talk earlier about being respectful.

Im sorry sidewinder get out ur crack and open ur eyes. other people are here, and i will stick up for other people if i feel they have been treated, out of orderly. no one gets paid here, they have paid for the program and to use this space. so what if u have d/l a movie that has taken ur time. thats ur choice. you d/led it. its not there problem. Stop being a jerk and relise u dont own the board niether does anyone else.

I dont think you would liked to be hounded at everytime you make a submission about how u have done this wrong and how thats crap. If anything you will respectivly give them critisim which they will listen to. and yes sarcasim when used in such a way is rudeness. and no one should have it. Dont like what ive just said .....Bite me
Posted: Wed, 10th Sep 2003, 2:50am

Post 53 of 62

Hajiku_Flip

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Hmm..interesting debate so far. Added my own option to the poll Sidey, hope you don't mind wink
Posted: Wed, 10th Sep 2003, 7:42am

Post 54 of 62

Sollthar

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Hm, interesting point Coldfuse. You're right there in one thing. This is a business site after all. The Alam Cinema is created for people who bought the app and play around with it.

As it is an app mainly aimed towards amateurs, many young people will buy it, play around with it and upload their tests.

If someone just buys that app, makes a crappy film and uploads it in all pride (wich is his right to do, he has paid for it) and gets told he sucks and should stop making films, that isn't really the point.


I understand totally where you're coming from Sidewinder and I think maybe you'd need to bear in mind, that not everyone here has the same ambition as us for example. If I want to make films, real films, and do something totally crap I should be told so. And in that case you're right, not everything deserves respect, some things simply are crap. And in that case I'd expect from you to tell me what a shit I just produced! wink
But as this isn't a site for only that, you'll find people here who never think about doing a real film, who just buy AlamDV for the fun of it, take the camera, shoot the first thing they see, put an AlamDV effect over it and off you go. They come from somewhere else, so you can't really just tell them what they did sucks and they should forget about the money the paid and get another hobby. A business site shouldn't work like that. smile



Oh, and coldfuse, don't think sidewider is asking for permission to be a prick, it's not what he said and not what he wants and he's proven himself more than once to be a valuable part of this community. And he do has a point with what he sais, so do you. biggrin
Posted: Wed, 10th Sep 2003, 10:36am

Post 55 of 62

Coldfuse

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yes solthar, i do agree, he does have a point. But what im trying to say that. Yes there will be alot of stuff where, editing is poor, framing is poor, and hey effects are poor. It still doesnt give anyone the right to say you wasted ur time, or you suck. There are so many words in the english dictionary, that not only are respectful, but also gives the same sense as that piece of work sucks. i think if you are going to diss on a piece of work, you should do it maturely, and think about what you are going to say. Not just because I think that person might not be able to handle it. I just think curtisy is the way forward. and i believe in resepect.

I dont think this board should go down, like many other boards. To which if there is a problem on a minority or majority i will say something. Then everyone starts fighting with each other. and the board becomes an un-nice place to be

I dont think anyone here, at all. minds people saying what they feel about a film. Its the whole reason you up load to show people. But then you shouldnt expect to be totally gunned down, in such wasys and uses of immature language, and sentances. You can be curtious and still be critical!
Posted: Wed, 10th Sep 2003, 10:56am

Post 56 of 62

Joshua Davies

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Basically people can comment in whatever manner they wish as long as we keep the language clean (this is a family forum).

We would like to think this is a community that helps each other out and lets people advance and do better in the future. If there are people that just write abusive posts with no helpful comments then the mods take a look anyway. We've had a few people enter the FXhome community just to flame every movie they see because they think that is a really funny thing to do when all it proves is that they have nothing constructive to say.

As the community gets larger there will be conflicting views and personalities but this is something we all have to live with in the real world without attacking people.

I think its just a case of learning to deal with, learn from or disregard comments by people you disagree with. If there are any statements that are blatantly rude or nasty the mods will deal with them. If you have a problem with a post, the sensible thing is to contact a Mod, rather than allowing yourself to be provoked into a silly argument.

One silly thing I saw the other day on the forum was..

I spoke to Ian McKellen today!
That's cool. He didn't try and hit on you did he?
Ok, the last thing we need here is some gay jokes...
That isn't a "gay" joke and is simply PC gone mad.
Posted: Wed, 10th Sep 2003, 11:12am

Post 57 of 62

Coldfuse

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well schwar, fair enough, i think people are allowed to comment. as ive said. still curtious is number 1.

Yes there will be disagreed opinions. i dont think no one is doubting that one at all. But i think as ive been saying, that when you critises, that you should structure it well, as it becomes more constructive. and allows the person to learn.

again im not saying you cant comment at all about how you feel, i just think sentences and choice of words should be taken into account. i remember ive critised someones work, and said to them im going to give u the bare truth. But then i also gave constructive critisim, which backed the point and wasnt a problem. as the person could see the mistakes.

I will only say something, if what is written sounds harsh, and could have been written in constructive way, but still very very critical.

I mean i allow alot of new people here that make there first movie. and say ur editng was pretty bad, and framing. but as you are new here, i wont hold you to that much. you will have enough time to learn, and improve on ur next pieace. better luck next time.

that is all i have to say
Posted: Thu, 11th Sep 2003, 1:24am

Post 58 of 62

WithSwissCheese

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I agree with Sidewinder, if harsh criticism and comments are going to stop you from doing what you want to do, then you might as well not get out of bed in the morning.

If all you can handle is a pat on the back and to be told to try harder next time - have your mother download the movie.

Hopefully she'll have the good sense to wack you upside the head and tell you it sucks - then tell you, you BETTER try harder next time.

Whatever anyone says on this board - NONE OF IT takes away your choice to do it, you're the only one who can do that - and if you listen to harsh criticism and let it stop YOU - then it's your fault.

Personally I find harsh comments and criticisms a sign of respect - respect for what people are doing and for the time they:
A. put into a project and B. should have put into a project.

Anytime you sugar coat stuff - that's a sign of disrespect - it means you think the person isn't up to snuff and can't handle it. Personally I think everyone here is capable of handling the harshest criticism we can dish out - I think we're all good enough to handle all the rough and tumble stuff and come out of it better for the experience. To me that's respect.

Last edited Thu, 11th Sep 2003, 5:23am; edited 1 times in total.

Posted: Thu, 11th Sep 2003, 2:50am

Post 59 of 62

JohnCarter

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I don't think anybody here is against harsh criticism. It is a sign of respect when you take the time to criticize something and tell it like it is, at least in your opinion.

I believe, like Mellifluous and Coldfuse, that you can be harsh and meaningful without being abusive, insulting and using aggressive or meaningless words like "sucks"...

I love harsh criticism. It's part of what is needed to improve. I much prfer people speak their minds. But I expect them to bother with decent, clear explanations, wether they deem the movie or topic good or not!

"This sucks!" just doesn't cut it.
Posted: Thu, 11th Sep 2003, 2:55am

Post 60 of 62

sidewinder

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Coldfuse, since it seems that it is your goal to make everyone amiable towards each other, I'd ask that you don't bother policing my posts, and telling me what to write (if that ever happens), as I get enough what-to-do/what-not-to-do from parents and teachers. oink
Posted: Thu, 11th Sep 2003, 12:19pm

Post 61 of 62

Coldfuse

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hmm, well i dont think anyone understand me much here. John yes i think when people says it sucks, and you have wasted ur time. and not said anything else. that is not what is needed. I think sidewinder you are fighting a battle with me that youre not really gonna win. Yes you do have a point people can speak there mind, when ever have i said they cant say what they want to say, or sugar coat it. I use the use of structre and sentencing is key. I look what happend to matt, he was pretty harsh with what he used to say. and people got offended by it. so it happens. I think everyone is unfair here to say. if you dont like what we do then i dont give a fuck. Its a community as it says. I dont think it should be runn here by people who have been posting longer then i have. Again like shwar said its a family board. kids come here to show there little creations. You telling me if you didnt say that sucked, alod of rubbish you wasted youre time and mine. Thats not gonna put them off?

this is turning into if you dont like it, go away because i want it my way. And that wont happen. again i will say it one more time. i dont mind people saynig what they want to say, just choose youre words carefully. i mean you dont have to syugar coat anything but then you dont have to say, youre fucking rubbish at this do you?

Sidewinder, i will comment on ur posts, you come here, to use in the community post, if you want it to work like the ways that have been suggested then dont come here, because im staying (now does that really work?)
Posted: Fri, 12th Sep 2003, 3:05pm

Post 62 of 62

Xcession

Force: 42802 | Joined: 21st Mar 2001 | Posts: 1964

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SuperUser

I make no apology for my "you spent your time make this?" comment...but i DO accept that it was neither constructive nor pleasant.

But to be blunt...thats simply how i felt! I downloaded that film, watched it and thought,

"why in the name of feck, would anyone put time and effort into such a naively...er...peculiar film - then make the film available for public consumption??"

I guess in retrospect theres nothing inherantly wrong with the film...but something about the somewhat eccentric technique and footage just rubbed me up the wrong way!

All these feelings culimated in my original post.

I'm well within my rights to say what the hell i like, frankly; but whether i *ought* to is the issue.

In this case - although i didn't think of it at the time - I guess my issue was that i felt the movie was laughably moronic, and contributed nothing to the fxhome community. It neither advanced techniques, nor tutored those who are less able, nor demonstrated any real ability. It was the movie equivalent of the popular music charts - its counter-progressive and vapid.

If my harsh criticisms caused the director to take offense...the result may be that he'll go back to formula and think "what a tw@t! i'll show that xcession...i'll make a masterpiece BUHAHAHAHHA!!!"

...in which case, my job is done.

If my harsh criticisms cause the director to break down and cry, then perhaps he'll reevaluate his life and realise that film-making isn't really his forte, and go and make someting truely remarkable of his life.

...in which case, my job is done.

If my harsh criticisms caused the director to ignore me completely....then at least hes man enough to think "wtf does he know, who gives what he thinks" and move on.

...in which case, good for him!

In future i will try and be more constructive in my criticism, i normally am, but for the record, i'll say what i want, thanks. eat it.